SCT Proposals 2012-2013 Thread

[qjtransitmaster]

2. Well however that route would be written, the route wouldn't be created. Even your way the route wouldn't be created because you would need an extra bus or two, something that Suffolk doesn't have nor can presently afford, but because you would be combining routes that or operated by two diffrent companies and as the companies showed in the past, they are very territail of their routes. (The current assignment of routes only came about partly because of a sttelment of a lawsuit all the operators, including two that are no longer operators, filed against the county in the late 90's which had to do with the ownership of the routes). The 2009 Study wouldn't be made because it would be sending two many routes over nearly the same strtch of area. The S66, Extended 7D, and the combine route.

 

4. The study called for the new route to take over the Smith Haven Mall to East Northport section of the S58 and then continue on to Walt Whitman Mall, it wasn't meant to supplement the S56.

 

5. You are aware that the S62 schudule was created back when the company that ran it was in Coram, you can't change a routes schudule just because where it is based out of changed. By that logic the first two S62 runs shouldstart out of the mall instead of Port Jefferson Station.

 

7. I never said you would get mad about that, I just said that Suffolk wouldn't do it.

 

 

The reason that 347 is horrible has nothing to do with a lack of usable bus service. 347 is horrible because there are two few lanes, a problem that they are only now rectifing. As proof all buses are banned from stopping west of Nichol's road on Westbound trips.

 

The S56 has always had low ridership, which is why they had, until the buses got to old to be used everyday, they assigned 30 foot Gilligs to the route. The S56 can't be cut happily because it does serve some type of complex (I'm not sure if it is a senior complex or not.) that doesn't have any other way to get to at least the Commack Shopping Center.

so 347 is a deathtrap huh figures I was on it before it makes queens blvd look safe. They need more lanes then BRT. BRT can work on jericho between coram and commack or smithtown. And on 347 and veterans memorial hwy and horseblock rd that way buses aren't slow as hell.

 

Although my plan kills off S56 that area will NOT be left without service. It will just be served by another route. S56 may be able to be modified if S33 is streamlined to stay on straight path to LIE to suffolk community college then back on it's route. With S56 restructured taking over S33 routing between wyandach and suffolk community college.

Edited March 29, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

A little off topic, but look at the first orginal S71 schedule

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050531222530/http://www.sct-bus.org/images/s71.pdf

 

Here's another

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050531204400/http://www.sct-bus.org/images/10c.pdf

 

 

The cover looks good, wonder why they changed it to the current set-up on the cover like this

 

2013 7D/7E Schedule:

 

http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://www.sct-bus.org/schedules/7d.pdf

Edited May 3, 2013 by Q23 Central Terminal

[mac5689]

A little off topic, but look at the first orginal S71 schedule

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050531222530/http://www.sct-bus.org/images/s71.pdf

 

Here's another

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050531204400/http://www.sct-bus.org/images/10c.pdf

 

 

The cover looks good, wonder why they changed it to the current set-up on the cover like this

 

2013 7D/7E Schedule:

 

http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://www.sct-bus.org/schedules/7d.pdf

I think its just to make it look more updated. I believe the old look was introduced in the late 90's early 2000. 

 

​The bus drawing on the older scheduled was said to look a Chance RT-52, the drawing of the bus on the newer buses is said to look like a Gillig Phantom.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

My proposal is a very simple one to understand

 

S54: An 8:30 PM, 9:30 PM, and 10:30 PM bus would be added northbound. However, these S54's would run to Ronkonkoma LIRR, via Hawkins Avenue (so there would be some more service in that area) and it would reduce deadhead time and still provide later service (the driver would still be paid, although a bit more, but with like 3-4 people on that trip by the very least, it evens it out (more revenue, but driver takes a while longer on the bus). These buses would run on the normal route until Hawkins Avenue.

 

The Rabro Dr/NYS 111 and the Wheeler Avenue/ 454 timepoints would be taken off the timetables.

 

BTW: The first S63 of the day does that (starts at Ronkonkoma LIRR and up Hawkins Avenue to Middle Country Road, and resumes it's regular route from there

[mac5689]

My proposal is a very simple one to understand

 

S54: An 8:30 PM, 9:30 PM, and 10:30 PM bus would be added northbound. However, these S54's would run to Ronkonkoma LIRR, via Hawkins Avenue (so there would be some more service in that area) and it would reduce deadhead time and still provide later service (the driver would still be paid, although a bit more, but with like 3-4 people on that trip by the very least, it evens it out (more revenue, but driver takes a while longer on the bus). These buses would run on the normal route until Hawkins Avenue.

 

The Rabro Dr/NYS 111 and the Wheeler Avenue/ 454 timepoints would be taken off the timetables.

 

BTW: The first S63 of the day does that (starts at Ronkonkoma LIRR and up Hawkins Avenue to Middle Country Road, and resumes it's regular route from there

 

 

The time point is Wheeler Road and Motor Parkway not Wheeler Ave/454. (and since the Wheeler Road Time point is technically a transfer point for the 3C and S42 it should stay. 

 

While simple, you would have to explain why those three S54's would go to Ronkonkoma LIRR while the rest of the time it doesn't. (Just because the first first S63 doesn't it isn't a very good reason, I mean I don't even know why the first S63 starts out at Ronkonkoma LIRR.)

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The time point is Wheeler Road and Motor Parkway not Wheeler Ave/454. (and since the Wheeler Road Time point is technically a transfer point for the 3C and S42 it should stay. 

 

While simple, you would have to explain why those three S54's would go to Ronkonkoma LIRR while the rest of the time it doesn't. (Just because the first first S63 doesn't it isn't a very good reason, I mean I don't even know why the first S63 starts out at Ronkonkoma LIRR.)

I mean, the point is to reduce deadhead cost, however it also provides later service in that area then the S40 currently provides, also provide some sort of service along the S57/S59 route after it stops running (connecting from areas like the Sun Vet Mall, and points south).

 

Anyways, in an effort to provide evening service to some of the SCT system, I would add service (weekdays only) on the following routes

S1:

A 10:15 PM trip from Amityville R.R, running to Huntington R.R only would be added (arriving at 11:10 PM)

A 10:15 PM trip from Halesite would be added, arriving at Amityville at 11:20 PM 

A 11:35 PM trip from Huntington R.R would added, running as far as Ritter Avenue (service south would be On Request only)

 

S23:

A  9:10 PM trip from Babylon R.R would be added, running only as far as Wydanch R.R Station

S29

A 8:30 PM trip would be added from Babylon R.R going as far as the Deer Park Town Line. This trip would go back to Babylon at 8:50 PM.

 

I have some other suggestions, but I'll stop here for now.

[Hound]

I mean, the point is to reduce deadhead cost, however it also provides later service in that area then the S40 currently provides, also provide some sort of service along the S57/S59 route after it stops running (connecting from areas like the Sun Vet Mall, and points south).

 

Anyways, in an effort to provide evening service to some of the SCT system, I would add service (weekdays only) on the following routes

S1:

A 10:15 PM trip from Amityville R.R, running to Huntington R.R only would be added (arriving at 11:10 PM)

A 10:15 PM trip from Halesite would be added, arriving at Amityville at 11:20 PM 

A 11:35 PM trip from Huntington R.R would added, running as far as Ritter Avenue (service south would be On Request only)

 

S23:

A  9:10 PM trip from Babylon R.R would be added, running only as far as Wydanch R.R Station

S29

A 8:30 PM trip would be added from Babylon R.R going as far as the Deer Park Town Line. This trip would go back to Babylon at 8:50 PM.

 

I have some other suggestions, but I'll stop here for now.

I always wondered why those last n/b S29 trips went only to the town line. Seems like a strange place to end a trip. Does anyone know how they turn around from there?

I mean, the point is to reduce deadhead cost, however it also provides later service in that area then the S40 currently provides, also provide some sort of service along the S57/S59 route after it stops running (connecting from areas like the Sun Vet Mall, and points south).

 

Anyways, in an effort to provide evening service to some of the SCT system, I would add service (weekdays only) on the following routes

S1:

A 10:15 PM trip from Amityville R.R, running to Huntington R.R only would be added (arriving at 11:10 PM)

A 10:15 PM trip from Halesite would be added, arriving at Amityville at 11:20 PM 

A 11:35 PM trip from Huntington R.R would added, running as far as Ritter Avenue (service south would be On Request only)

 

S23:

A  9:10 PM trip from Babylon R.R would be added, running only as far as Wydanch R.R Station

S29

A 8:30 PM trip would be added from Babylon R.R going as far as the Deer Park Town Line. This trip would go back to Babylon at 8:50 PM.

 

I have some other suggestions, but I'll stop here for now.

The S1 should be extended to Montauk Hwy to connect with the N19. Either that or the N19 should divert to Amityville RR.

[Burrstone]

The S1 should be extended to Montauk Hwy to connect with the N19. Either that or the N19 should divert to Amityville RR.

 

Amityville is the only town in Suffolk where particular road is called Merrick Rd not Montauk Hwy, come on Hound I thought you knew everything...   lol  It's not your fault, if you've driven the N19 I'm sure you've heard years of the bus announcements calling it Montauk Hwy.

 

Anyway, I agree with you, I have been saying both on here for years.  The shoulder is wide enough on both sides at the end of 110 and is far enough away from the corner of 110/Merrick that it wouldn't interfere.  There is a big community lot right there that the bus could turn around in.  As for the n19, I have shown (sometime somewhere here) that rerouting the n19 through Amityville RR and to the mall would not only route it through the RR but save it time getting to the mall rather than it's current route traveling on Sunrise HWY, there is no reason that bus needs to be on Sunrise as it doesn't even have any stops on Sunrise.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I mean, the point is to reduce deadhead cost, however it also provides later service in that area then the S40 currently provides, also provide some sort of service along the S57/S59 route after it stops running (connecting from areas like the Sun Vet Mall, and points south).

 

Anyways, in an effort to provide evening service to some of the SCT system, I would add service (weekdays only) on the following routes

S1:

A 10:15 PM trip from Amityville R.R, running to Huntington R.R only would be added (arriving at 11:10 PM)

A 10:15 PM trip from Halesite would be added, arriving at Amityville at 11:20 PM 

A 11:35 PM trip from Huntington R.R would added, running as far as Ritter Avenue (service south would be On Request only)

 

S23:

A  9:10 PM trip from Babylon R.R would be added, running only as far as Wydanch R.R Station

S29

A 8:30 PM trip would be added from Babylon R.R going as far as the Deer Park Town Line. This trip would go back to Babylon at 8:50 PM.

 

I have some other suggestions, but I'll stop here for now.

 

In Addition to this, the S27 would have an added 9:01 PM trip from Babylon running up to Brentwood R.R(arriving at Brentwood R.R at 9:44 PM).

&

S33:

Extend the current 7:55 PM trip to the SCC Brentwood Campus (arriving at 8:40 PM). 

Add a 9:20 PM trip to Wyndanch R.R (arriving at 9:40 PM)

[Vistausss]

Amityville is the only town in Suffolk where particular road is called Merrick Rd not Montauk Hwy, come on Hound I thought you knew everything...   lol  It's not your fault, if you've driven the N19 I'm sure you've heard years of the bus announcements calling it Montauk Hwy.

 

Anyway, I agree with you, I have been saying both on here for years.  The shoulder is wide enough on both sides at the end of 110 and is far enough away from the corner of 110/Merrick that it wouldn't interfere.  There is a big community lot right there that the bus could turn around in.  As for the n19, I have shown (sometime somewhere here) that rerouting the n19 through Amityville RR and to the mall would not only route it through the RR but save it time getting to the mall rather than it's current route traveling on Sunrise HWY, there is no reason that bus needs to be on Sunrise as it doesn't even have any stops on Sunrise.  

 

Plus whenever there's a hickup at Sunrise Hwy (happens once in a while going by the info that @thenicebus and @SCTBusInfo give) the n19 gets either rerouted via a strange route or doesn't serve the mall at all. By routing it via Amityville RR, in worst case scenario it can always terminate there. Better to temporary terminate it at Amityville RR then to cut half of the route because of a hickup.

[Burrstone]

What is the hickup?  I've never heard of the n19 terminating at the mall, then again I don't follow NICE nicebus on twitter,,,,

 

The n19 wastes so much time by traveling on Sunrise Hwy (some times of the day the traffic is heavier at times and the lights on Sunrise are long).  

 

The n19 should only cross cross Sunrise, it shouldn't travel it.  Also, the routing to the mall needs to be changed, 

 

I even dare to say the n19 should be routed to the Amityville RR and drop the mall all together, the bus would save so much time.  Passengers could transfer to a majority of SCT and NICE lines at Amityville RR if not they could transfer at the RR and take the S33 or n54/n55 from the RR to the mall.

[Vistausss]

Sorry, my bad. I clearly am a fool sometimes lol. I confused the n19 with the n80/n81, so please when you re-read my previous post, substitute 'n19' with 'n80/n81'.

 

I do agree with your n19 proposal though

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Weekday Schedule changes:

S1: Add 10:05 PM bus from Amityville to SUNY Farmingdale

S33: Add 9:10 PM bus from Amityville to Deer Park Avenue/ Grand Blvd

S40/S42: Add 10:30 PM bus from Babylon to Bay Shore. This trip will then turn into a S42 trip bypassing South Shore Mall at 9:45 PM, arriving Central Islip at 10:05 PM

S54: Add 8:15 PM, 9:20 PM trips to Bohemia (basically in service on it's current route instead of deadheading on the same route).

[qjtransitmaster]

Weekday Schedule changes:

S1: Add 10:05 PM bus from Amityville to SUNY Farmingdale

S33: Add 9:10 PM bus from Amityville to Deer Park Avenue/ Grand Blvd

S40/S42: Add 10:30 PM bus from Babylon to Bay Shore. This trip will then turn into a S42 trip bypassing South Shore Mall at 9:45 PM, arriving Central Islip at 10:05 PM

S54: Add 8:15 PM, 9:20 PM trips to Bohemia (basically in service on it's current route instead of deadheading on the same route).

Although I agree with these changes what will posting them here accomplish?

[Hound]

Weekday Schedule changes:

S1: Add 10:05 PM bus from Amityville to SUNY Farmingdale

S33: Add 9:10 PM bus from Amityville to Deer Park Avenue/ Grand Blvd

S40/S42: Add 10:30 PM bus from Babylon to Bay Shore. This trip will then turn into a S42 trip bypassing South Shore Mall at 9:45 PM, arriving Central Islip at 10:05 PM

S54: Add 8:15 PM, 9:20 PM trips to Bohemia (basically in service on it's current route instead of deadheading on the same route).

How does a 10:30 PM bus from Babylon get to Central Islip by 10:05PM?

[mac5689]

How does a 10:30 PM bus from Babylon get to Central Islip by 10:05PM?

 

My guess is that BM5 via Woodhaven made a typo, since the bus would be at Bay Shore at 9:45, and either the bus would eaither leave Babylon at 9:30 (which would have the bus arriving at CI at 10:05) or that the bus would arrive at Central Islip at 11:05 (Meaning the Bay Shore time was the typo). 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

How does a 10:30 PM bus from Babylon get to Central Islip by 10:05PM?

 

 

My guess is that BM5 via Woodhaven made a typo, since the bus would be at Bay Shore at 9:45, and either the bus would eaither leave Babylon at 9:30 (which would have the bus arriving at CI at 10:05) or that the bus would arrive at Central Islip at 11:05 (Meaning the Bay Shore time was the typo). 

Yes, my mistake, I made a typo (what I meant was in bold).

[mac5689]

Yes, my mistake, I made a typo (what I meant was in bold).

 

I didn't even notice the problem until Hound pointed it out. The S40/S42 idea is good. The only problem I have, and this is comming from someone who has lived in the CI area, is that I would be worried about driver safety at that hour. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Quick question: Does anybody know where the yards/depots are for the different routes? I think the S1, 1A, 1B, S20 & S31 are based out of Copaigue (EBT), I remember hearing the S40 & S42 (and I'm assuming the rest of the Bay Shore lines) are based out of there. I think the S63 is based out of Ronkonkoma, and the S58 is based out of Coram. 

 

In any case, I have a few proposals for extending the evening service on some lines. 

 

S58:

 

5:40PM from East Northport extended to Riverhead, and returns as a 7:45PM trip running to Coram Plaza.

8:30PM trip at East Northport becomes an 8:35PM trip to Coram Plaza, bypassing SCCC

 

I think the 3B and S41 should have some evening service between Brentwood and South Shore Mall (3B) and Brentwood & Bay Shore (S41). You could have hourly service using one bus between the two routes.

 

In general, I think the span of the Saturday service should be similar to that of the weekday service. It's rather ridiculous to have routes like the S1 ending at 6:30 on a Saturday night. 

[mac5689]

Quick question: Does anybody know where the yards/depots are for the different routes? I think the S1, 1A, 1B, S20 & S31 are based out of Copaigue (EBT), I remember hearing the S40 & S42 (and I'm assuming the rest of the Bay Shore lines) are based out of there. I think the S63 is based out of Ronkonkoma, and the S58 is based out of Coram. 

 

In any case, I have a few proposals for extending the evening service on some lines. 

 

S58:

 

5:40PM from East Northport extended to Riverhead, and returns as a 7:45PM trip running to Coram Plaza.

8:30PM trip at East Northport becomes an 8:35PM trip to Coram Plaza, bypassing SCCC

 

I think the 3B and S41 should have some evening service between Brentwood and South Shore Mall (3B) and Brentwood & Bay Shore (S41). You could have hourly service using one bus between the two routes.

 

In general, I think the span of the Saturday service should be similar to that of the weekday service. It's rather ridiculous to have routes like the S1 ending at 6:30 on a Saturday night. 

EBT moved all their Transit routes to a yard in West Babylon, near where Harran use to be, so I've been told.  

 

The S40 and S42 are run by SBC out of their Bay Shore/HQ yard. 2A, 2B, and now the S41 are the only Bay Shore routes that based out of the EBT Yard.

 

The problem with the possibility of an 8:35 S58 bypassing SCCC is what about any students that are there that need the bus. 

 

It may be ridiculous to have the S1 end at 6:30, but thats what Suffolk can afford.

[checkmatechamp13]

EBT moved all their Transit routes to a yard in West Babylon, near where Harran use to be, so I've been told.  

 

The S40 and S42 are run by SBC out of their Bay Shore/HQ yard. 2A, 2B, and now the S41 are the only Bay Shore routes that based out of the EBT Yard.

 

The problem with the possibility of an 8:35 S58 bypassing SCCC is what about any students that are there that need the bus. 

 

It may be ridiculous to have the S1 end at 6:30, but thats what Suffolk can afford.

 

So wait, do you have a roster of which routes are based out of which depots?

 

For the S58, that bus would pass by SCCC at 9:20, and it would only benefit students traveling as far as Coram. If there's demand, then sure it should go, but otherwise, the goal would be to get the bus to the depot quickly. 

 

Ideally, routes would be running much later (like 10 or 11pm, since a lot of the malls close at 9:30), but something like this is low-hanging fruit. Like you said, it comes down to funding.

Edited January 8, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[mac5689]

So wait, do you have a roster of which routes are based out of which depots?

 

For the S58, that bus would pass by SCCC at 9:20, and it would only benefit students traveling as far as Coram. If there's demand, then sure it should go, but otherwise, the goal would be to get the bus to the depot quickly. 

 

Ideally, routes would be running much later (like 10 or 11pm, since a lot of the malls close at 9:30), but something like this is low-hanging fruit. Like you said, it comes down to funding.

Yes. All the routes are listed by operator on the pinned roster list. I don't give the exact locations of the Depots. EBT just recently opened the West Babylon Depot, they also house school buses there.  

 

I could be wrong but I believe SCCC-Selden offers classes at night so late night service there would be a benefit. Not sure what the ridership to from there is on the S58 though.

[checkmatechamp13]

Yes. All the routes are listed by operator on the pinned roster list. I don't give the exact locations of the Depots. EBT just recently opened the West Babylon Depot, they also house school buses there.  

 

I could be wrong but I believe SCCC-Selden offers classes at night so late night service there would be a benefit. Not sure what the ridership to from there is on the S58 though.

 

No problem.

 

As for the S58, alright, point taken.

 

I put together a list of a few deadheads that can be converted to revenue service (for both HART & SCT). It would require a bit of interlining, so hopefully they allow that.

 

H10 Weekdays:

First EB bus leaves Huntington LIRR station at 6:10AM. First WB bus leaves Huntington LIRR station at 6:39AM.

Last EB bus leaves CSH at 6:40PM, terminating at the Huntington LIRR station. Last WB bus leaves Commack at 6:40PM and terminates at the Huntington LIRR station. 

 

H10 Saturdays:

First WB bus leaves Pulaski/Depot at 8:40AM. Last EB bus leaves leaves CSH at 7:00PM, terminating at Pulaski/Depot.

 

H20 Weekdays:

First NB bus leaves Rt. 110/Pulaski at 6:46AM, headed towards Halesite. Last SB bus leaves Halesite at 7:00PM, terminating at Pulaski Road. (Neither of those buses would do the loop around Walt Whitman Mall. They would just run straight up/down Woodhull Road)

 

First SB bus leaves Huntington LIRR station at 6:35AM to Walt Whitman Mall via Depot Road. An additional bus leaves Rt. 110/Pulaski at 6:40AM to Walt Whitman Mall via 8th Avenue.

 

Last NB bus leaves Walt Whitman Mall at 6:54PM to Rt. 110/Pulaski via 8th Avenue. Last SB bus leaves Walt Whitman Mall at 7:03PM to Huntington LIRR station via Depot Road.

 

H20 Saturdays:

First NB bus leaves Rt. 110/Pulaski at 8:46AM, headed towards Halesite.

 

H40 Weekdays:

Last SB bus leaves VA Medical Center at 6:45PM to Pulaski Road. Then turns into H10 to Pulaski/Depot at 7:10PM. (The last S41 of the night is at 6:20PM right now, so at least this would give people a way to get to the LIRR)

 

H40 Saturdays:

Last SB bus leaves VA Medical Center at 6:35PM to Pulaski Road. Then turns into H10 to Pulaski/Depot at 7:00PM.

 

S1: 5:25AM & 5:55AM trips added from Walt Whitman Mall to Halesite, for those who may need to catch an early morning LIRR train.

 

Not going to list all the specific trips, but I'll say some additional buses would start/end at Conklin Avenue in both directions (Instead of deadheading all the way to/from the end, they'll start/end halfway up the line).

 

S23: 5:55AM bus from Wyandanch LIRR station added (replaces the 6:00AM S29 trip from Deer Park. Basically, it's the same bus, but it starts in Wyandanch).

 

7:55PM bus from Babylon to Wyandanch added.

 

S25: 6:45AM bus added from Five Corners to Babylon. Interlined with the S27 (the first few S27 buses of the morning will do an S25 trip from Five Corners on their way from the depot to Babylon. The last few buses of the night will do an S25 trip to Five Corners on their way back from the depot). 

 

S33: 6:00AM bus added out of Deer Park to Amityville. 8:35PM bus added from Sunrise to Deer Park. 9:20PM bus added from Amityville to Deer Park. Additional buses added during the shoulder periods to provide 30 minute service between Wyandanch & Amityville (Some S1 buses that would've otherwise been deadheading from Amityville)

 

7A: 5:30AM trip added from Ronkonkoma to Patchogue. 7:25PM trip, 8:30PM trip, and 9:15PM trip added from Patchogue to Ronkonkoma (run-ons/run-offs from the routes that start/end in Patchogue) 

 

S61: Two more SB trips added from Port Jefferson to Coram Plaza at 8:00PM & 8:30PM (8PM trip is an S62 interline, 8:30PM trip is an S60 interline)

 

S66: Last westbound bus out of Riverhead is at 7:50PM (DS4 would be happy  )

Edited January 10, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[DS4Ever]

Aleluyah.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

IDK, but wouldn't those added 7A trips be more beneficial if they were on the S54 instead to Ronkonkoma (the bus would deviate at MacArthur to run along the S57 route). I don't know if there is a way to reach an agreememt with EBT over those trips. Furthermore, I believe that the S54 should run inside of MacArthur Airport at all times that it runs.

 

I would add an extra S33 to Deer Park at 7:10 PM from Amityville, a 7:35 PM 2A to Deer Park or Wyandanch (comes from the S41), and a S42 from Central Islip to Bay Shore at 7:05 PM (comes from the 3C).

Edited January 10, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven