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mark1447

NJ DOT Commissioner Suggests Bus Pickups on Manhattan Streets

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"New Jersey Transportation Commissioner Jim Simpson on Wednesday suggested a pilot program that would allow some NJ Transit buses that serve Manhattan to bypass the Port Authority Bus Terminal, picking up North Jersey-bound passengers directly from the streets of New York.

 

Simpson pitched the idea during NJ Transit’s monthly board meeting, directing the agency’s bus division to look into working with New York transit officials on an arrangement he said may address congestion at the terminal.

 

“We know that we’ve got physical constraints with the Port Authority Bus Terminal. We also know that bus ridership is rising as the result of the rising cost of fuel and increased tolls. So we're looking for smarter solutions,” Simpson said.

 

“NJ Transit may be able to start a service that actually does not go to the bus terminal,” he said. “It might start on Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, make a series of stops, get on the tunnel and go straight to New Jersey.”

 

Simpson said many customers start at the East Side. “Rather than have everybody go to the bus terminal, maybe have the bus go up on the East Side,” he said.

 

He said NJ Transit could work with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and the New York City Department of Transportation. An MTA spokesman said the streets and bus stops fall under the NYCDOT’s jurisdiction.

 

Scott Gastel, a spokesman for the NYCDOT, said the agency has not received any request from NJ Transit to allow bus service around the city. “We would review any such request closely before making a determination,” he said in an email.

 

Simpson said NJ Transit will look at the issues involved, including jurisdictional or logistical issues raised from such an operation. He also noted that the New York Waterway ferry service relies on buses in the city to carry passengers back and forth to the ferry to New Jersey. Those buses do not charge an additional fare to passengers."

 

http://www.northjers...html?c=y&page=2

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I agree Robins... It is NJT for a reason... We have enough traffic as it is on 42nd street. Why didn't they build the garage??

 

Like they said, the #120 makes picks ups and drop offs on the street. What difference does it make whether the buses terminate in NY or NJ? It's not like they're going to operate open-door in NYC.

 

As for the garage, I think we all know the reason. ($$$$$$)

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Like they said, the #120 makes picks ups and drop offs on the street. What difference does it make whether the buses terminate in NY or NJ? It's not like they're going to operate open-door in NYC.

 

As for the garage, I think we all know the reason. ($$$$$$)

 

You just love taking sides for the hell of it don't you? It makes a hell of a difference. As the article said (which apparently you want to overlook) they started terminating at the Port Authority years ago because there was too much traffic. They could've built the garage but instead they opt to clog up our streets further. This is a NJ problem NOT a NY problem, period. Let them deal with it. We have enough of our own congestion to deal with. You complain about buses moving slow and yet you don't see the problem with this?? Then again why would you? You don't have to commute on a daily basis in the city, so this would affect you the least.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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I think it might be good idea for some (NJT) riders.

 

 

 

What about Coach USA buses? Especially #59 Exit 14 buses almost make same stop as M2 LTD bus stop from 5th Av/59th St to 42nd St.

 

 

 

There's also COACH USA runs along entire M42 route to Lincoln Tunnel pickup westbound and eastbound drop-off.

 

 

 

Don't NY Waterway ferry buses consit New Jersey company?

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

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You just love taking sides for the hell of it don't you? It makes a hell of a difference. As the article said (which apparently you want to overlook) they started terminating at the Port Authority years ago because there was too much traffic. They could've built the garage but instead they opt to clog up our streets further. This is a NJ problem NOT a NY problem, period. Let them deal with it. We have enough of our own congestion to deal with. You complain about buses moving slow and yet you don't see the problem with this?? Then again why would you? You don't have to commute on a daily basis in the city, so this would affect you the least.

 

 

The same way you love twisting my words around, right?

 

And I read the whole article. So the buses would clog the streets but at least the passengers onboard those buses would be able to get to their destination faster, since the buses don't have to wait for an open bay at the PA bus terminal. So yes, it's actually making the buses faster, or else what would be the point? If the buses went in and out of the terminal with no problems, we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

 

And that "Oh, it's an NJ problem, not a NY problem" is a ton of crap. The last time I checked, there were plenty of NJ residents who worked in NYC and vice versa.

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The same way you love twisting my words around, right?

 

And I read the whole article. So the buses would clog the streets but at least the passengers onboard those buses would be able to get to their destination faster, since the buses don't have to wait for an open bay at the PA bus terminal. So yes, it's actually making the buses faster, or else what would be the point? If the buses went in and out of the terminal with no problems, we wouldn't be having this discussion, now would we?

 

And that "Oh, it's an NJ problem, not a NY problem" is a ton of crap. The last time I checked, there were plenty of NJ residents who worked in NYC and vice versa.

 

 

Faster how?? 42nd street has some of the worst traffic in the city and traffic in the city is becoming worse, so I don't see how having more buses clog up 42nd street will make their commutes any faster than what it is now. Are you hard of reading or what?? The article clearly stated that the reason they STOPPED running NJ buses on NYC streets in Midtown was because there was too much traffic. I work in Midtown and use 42nd street daily, and quite frankly there are plenty of days when you are better off walking than taking a bus. As for your last comment yes, legally it IS a NJ problem because they would have to get permission from NY to run those buses here.

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For Lower Manhattan I never understood why a smaller GW Bridge/PABT Terminal was not bulit besides the new Fulton Transit Center for NJT Buses. That for further discussion.

 

And Vg8 for the record, NJT already has a couple of routes serve Downtown(Central City)Philadelphia make a couple of stops down there outside of their PABT-Type Greyhound station. That in addition to most of the NJT buses termnating at the Greyhound Terminal on nearby Filbert Street. While Philly having NJT Buses make a couple of stops along the Market Street area, being fair, it does not have the mega traffic of Midtown NY. I say this that For NJT to rule out having a couple of NJT buses serve a couple of areas in Mid Manhattan should not be ruled out either IMO. Maybe use 34th since it now has a bus lane as an example.

 

Not sure of an option to solve this problem but this is further proof why a new Hudson River tunnel is so badly needed. If the trains to/from NY Penn were not at 500% filled to capcity I would have suggested having buses say terminate at the Seacucus station. Again with traffic both from train and bus traffic between NJ and NYC crushloaded, this is something to look at.

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For Lower Manhattan I never understood why a smaller GW Bridge/PABT Terminal was not bulit besides the new Fulton Transit Center for NJT Buses. That for further discussion.

 

And Vg8 for the record, NJT already has a couple of routes serve Downtown(Central City)Philadelphia make a couple of stops down there outside of their PABT-Type Greyhound station. That in addition to most of the NJT buses termnating at the Greyhound Terminal on nearby Filbert Street. While Philly having NJT Buses make a couple of stops along the Market Street area, being fair, it does not have the mega traffic of Midtown NY. I say this that For NJT to rule out having a couple of NJT buses serve a couple of areas in Mid Manhattan should not be ruled out either IMO. Maybe use 34th since it now has a bus lane as an example.

 

Not sure of an option to solve this problem but this is further proof why a new Hudson River tunnel is so badly needed. If the trains to/from NY Penn were not at 500% filled to capcity I would have suggested having buses say terminate at the Seacucus station. Again with traffic both from train and bus traffic between NJ and NYC crushloaded, this is something to look at.

 

 

I'm well aware of the few buses that stop Downtown, but as you said Downtown and Midtown are very different animals and that is why I don't support this. The amount of buses that terminate or stop Downtown is a drop in the bucket compared to the Port Authority. The M42 is always one of the slowest buses in the system, so how can one support dumping more buses on an already overcrowded 42nd street makes no sense. I have used the M42 when running errands and going back to my office and quite frankly if it wasn't for the hill there by 3rd Avenue, I would just walk back because it can take 20 minutes to go just a few blocks. The best alternative would be to build that garage or provide more train capacity to carry more folks in and have some express buses just stop at those locations.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I'm well aware of the few buses that stop Downtown, but as you said Downtown and Midtown are very different animals and that is why I don't support this. The amount of buses that terminate or stop Downtown is a drop in the bucket compared to the Port Authority. The M42 is always one of the slowest buses in the system, so how can one support dumping more buses on an already overcrowded 42nd street makes no sense. I have used the M42 when running errands and going back to my office and quite frankly if it wasn't for the hill there by 3rd Avenue, I would just walk back because it can take 20 minutes to go just a few blocks. The best alternative would be to build that garage or provide more train capacity to carry more folks in and have some express buses just stop at those locations.

 

 

 

You aware that the Amtrak/NJ Transit tunnels is crushloaded and can't expand anymore. Thus the issue of how to pay for the new tubes especially after NJ Gov. Christie cancelled funding. So the train option especially during rush hour may not work.

 

And NJT for their busier routes already runs 'non stop express' between PABT and their towns in NJ so that already been tried. And that around the PABT, the only place to bulid more 'garages' is on 12th Avenue far away from a subway.

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You aware that the Amtrak/NJ Transit tunnels is crushloaded and can't expand anymore. Thus the issue of how to pay for the new tubes especially after NJ Gov. Christie cancelled funding. So the train option especially during rush hour may not work.

 

And NJT for their busier routes already runs 'non stop express' between PABT and their towns in NJ so that already been tried. And that around the PABT, the only place to bulid more 'garages' is on 12th Avenue far away from a subway.

 

 

Well it seems like they want a cheap solution but they want us to pay for it by having our streets more clogged like we don't have traffic problems already. They can't afford the tubes, can't afford the garage (apparently regardless to where it is built), but yet it is our problem?? The DOT should step in here and shut this whole discussion down. We stopped them from running buses in Midtown precisely because there was way too much congestion, so they need to come up with another solution because that one doesn't fly IMO. You'll have more people screaming for congestion pricing here and tourists discouraged from coming to Midtown if they can't get around efficiently, hurting our economy in the long run.

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@VG8 i am not saying I endorse the idea. However even on weekends sometimes riding NJTbuses to say Garden State Plaza Mall or down to Atlantic City could be packed. I have heard much worse than this offical suggesting a couple of NJT buses serving the PABT be extended to East Midtown.

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Faster how?? 42nd street has some of the worst traffic in the city and traffic in the city is becoming worse, so I don't see how having more buses clog up 42nd street will make their commutes any faster than what it is now. Are you hard of reading or what?? The article clearly stated that the reason they STOPPED running NJ buses on NYC streets in Midtown was because there was too much traffic. I work in Midtown and use 42nd street daily, and quite frankly there are plenty of days when you are better off walking than taking a bus. As for your last comment yes, legally it IS a NJ problem because they would have to get permission from NY to run those buses here.

 

 

Maybe you're the one who's hard of reading because I already mentioned how the buses would be faster: They wouldn't have to wait for a bay at the Port Authority Bus Terminal: They'd just drop off/pick up on the street.

 

And it doesn't matter if it's an NJ problem. If commuters waste a ton of time because the bus terminal was overcrowded, that's a NY problem as well, like it or not.

 

Aside from that, who says they have to use 42nd Street? Can't they use one of the nearby streets in the area (43rd Street, 44th Street, etc)

 

I'm well aware of the few buses that stop Downtown, but as you said Downtown and Midtown are very different animals and that is why I don't support this. The amount of buses that terminate or stop Downtown is a drop in the bucket compared to the Port Authority. The M42 is always one of the slowest buses in the system, so how can one support dumping more buses on an already overcrowded 42nd street makes no sense. I have used the M42 when running errands and going back to my office and quite frankly if it wasn't for the hill there by 3rd Avenue, I would just walk back because it can take 20 minutes to go just a few blocks. The best alternative would be to build that garage or provide more train capacity to carry more folks in and have some express buses just stop at those locations.

 

 

That, and not all of the routes would have to go along the street. You could have say, 80% of the buses going into the PA Bus Terminal, and the remaining 20% drop off on the street.Not all of the routes would have to go along the street. You could have say, 80% of the buses going into the PA Bus Terminal, and the remaining 20% drop off on the street. It would relieve a lot of congestion at the bus terminal while not having as much of an impact on traffic.

 

As for the train capacity, they planned to have ARC, but their governor killed that plan.

 

Well it seems like they want a cheap solution but they want us to pay for it by having our streets more clogged like we don't have traffic problems already. They can't afford the tubes, can't afford the garage (apparently regardless to where it is built), but yet it is our problem?? The DOT should step in here and shut this whole discussion down. We stopped them from running buses in Midtown precisely because there was way too much congestion, so they need to come up with another solution because that one doesn't fly IMO. You'll have more people screaming for congestion pricing here and tourists discouraged from coming to Midtown if they can't get around efficiently, hurting our economy in the long run.

 

 

I thought you said you supported congestion pricing.

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Jesus you two fight like brother and sister!

 

First off....regardless about how you feel about this, something needs to be done. The PM Rush is getting way outta hand with the delays trying to get into the PABT. I watched the PM Rush from 10th/39th yesterday and today and it was ridiculous. Buses having to go every which way just to get onto to the ramp to head to the upper level. With the cost of gas and tools rising and no meaningful expansion of NJT Rail....more and more people will be turning towards the bus, and unless something gives, we are looking at total gridlock around the PABT in a couple years time, maybe less.

 

42nd St moves pretty decent in the afternoon, ther problem is the left turn from 42nd onto 9th when heading for the Lincoln Tunnel. If they could do something about that I could see them running trips on the 126,128,129,139 and 320. Also they could start sending more buses on a Wall St routing, As far as serving Midtown, they could do like ShortLine does with it's Washingtonville service...those buses don't hit the PABT at all, they serve the East Side via Lexington and Broadway, stop at the GWB Terminal and then head right to Orange County. I could see NJT doing that with the Fairview routes and other runs like the 127,166,167,and 177.

 

As a NJT passenger I'm glad to see them looking at trying to improve the situation with the resources they are being given rather than just shrugging their shoulders about the congestion at the PABT.

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Maybe you're the one who's hard of reading because I already mentioned how the buses would be faster: They wouldn't have to wait for a bay at the Port Authority Bus Terminal: They'd just drop off/pick up on the street.

 

And it doesn't matter if it's an NJ problem. If commuters waste a ton of time because the bus terminal was overcrowded, that's a NY problem as well, like it or not.

 

Aside from that, who says they have to use 42nd Street? Can't they use one of the nearby streets in the area (43rd Street, 44th Street, etc)

 

Oh God... And you think the side streets are any better?? Clearly you don't spend much time in Midtown... We DON'T need more traffic in Midtown, period. The solution here is to find a way to get these folks moving without putting more buses on the streets in Midtown. And no, it isn't a NY problem. If it was, the DOT would be getting involved. It's called NJ Transit because it is for NJ not NY.

 

 

That, and not all of the routes would have to go along the street. You could have say, 80% of the buses going into the PA Bus Terminal, and the remaining 20% drop off on the street.Not all of the routes would have to go along the street. You could have say, 80% of the buses going into the PA Bus Terminal, and the remaining 20% drop off on the street. It would relieve a lot of congestion at the bus terminal while not having as much of an impact on traffic.

 

As for the train capacity, they planned to have ARC, but their governor killed that plan.

 

Yeah well that's it then. They need to spend money and stop being so damn cheap.

 

 

I thought you said you supported congestion pricing.

 

 

I support it but that doesn't mean I want more traffic coming in here.

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For Lower Manhattan I never understood why a smaller GW Bridge/PABT Terminal was not bulit besides the new Fulton Transit Center for NJT Buses. That for further discussion.

 

And Vg8 for the record, NJT already has a couple of routes serve Downtown(Central City)Philadelphia make a couple of stops down there outside of their PABT-Type Greyhound station. That in addition to most of the NJT buses termnating at the Greyhound Terminal on nearby Filbert Street. While Philly having NJT Buses make a couple of stops along the Market Street area, being fair, it does not have the mega traffic of Midtown NY. I say this that For NJT to rule out having a couple of NJT buses serve a couple of areas in Mid Manhattan should not be ruled out either IMO. Maybe use 34th since it now has a bus lane as an example.

 

Not sure of an option to solve this problem but this is further proof why a new Hudson River tunnel is so badly needed. If the trains to/from NY Penn were not at 500% filled to capcity I would have suggested having buses say terminate at the Seacucus station. Again with traffic both from train and bus traffic between NJ and NYC crushloaded, this is something to look at.

 

too many M34 SBS for NJT to use 34th street. But maybe more unique manhattan routings with NJT buses to enhance access from NJ and ease PABT traffic hell heck this can improve ridership since now ppl have one seat rider to more parts of manhattan. I have been on an NJT 139 that dropped me off at penn station no lie.

Jesus you two fight like brother and sister!

 

First off....regardless about how you feel about this, something needs to be done. The PM Rush is getting way outta hand with the delays trying to get into the PABT. I watched the PM Rush from 10th/39th yesterday and today and it was ridiculous. Buses having to go every which way just to get onto to the ramp to head to the upper level. With the cost of gas and tools rising and no meaningful expansion of NJT Rail....more and more people will be turning towards the bus, and unless something gives, we are looking at total gridlock around the PABT in a couple years time, maybe less.

 

42nd St moves pretty decent in the afternoon, ther problem is the left turn from 42nd onto 9th when heading for the Lincoln Tunnel. If they could do something about that I could see them running trips on the 126,128,129,139 and 320. Also they could start sending more buses on a Wall St routing, As far as serving Midtown, they could do like ShortLine does with it's Washingtonville service...those buses don't hit the PABT at all, they serve the East Side via Lexington and Broadway, stop at the GWB Terminal and then head right to Orange County. I could see NJT doing that with the Fairview routes and other runs like the 127,166,167,and 177.

 

As a NJT passenger I'm glad to see them looking at trying to improve the situation with the resources they are being given rather than just shrugging their shoulders about the congestion at the PABT.

 

In a sense not 127 but 167 and 177 maybe yes and most likely new direct to LGA or UES service can be added to GWB based lines.

Oh God... And you think the side streets are any better?? Clearly you don't spend much time in Midtown... We DON'T need more traffic in Midtown, period. The solution here is to find a way to get these folks moving without putting more buses on the streets in Midtown. And no, it isn't a NY problem. If it was, the DOT would be getting involved. It's called NJ Transit because it is for NJ not NY.

 

 

 

 

Yeah well that's it then. They need to spend money and stop being so damn cheap.

 

 

 

 

I support it but that doesn't mean I want more traffic coming in here.

 

One problem NOT all NJT routes that gain street routing need to go on 42nd street. They can serve west side hwy piers and go to 23rd or 14th directly. Some to 72nd and 9th ave UWS which would take cars off the road thus easing traffic on 9th and 10th aves allowing M11 to become less delay prone meaning faster NJ to UWS access. You need to expand your thinking the traffic is from NJ so therefore solutions rest on NJT's shoulders therefore their problem is our traffic nightmare. You are way too narrow look at the region as a whole then you will realize this plan is brilliant.

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NJT has 1 if not 2 or more fenced off areas in manhattan that they use to put busses when not being used. I've walked by the one, it's somewhere west of penn station.

 

- A

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I've kept quiet about this since I don't want to take sides. This is my opinion. If the DOT of NJ wants to reduce congestion at PABT, figure out a way to expand the Port. I think that there is plenty of space that the port can buy and convert to new ports and new areas for buses to access passengers. Also, and I still feel positive in this, if the Lincoln could build a fourth tunnel and make it buses only in the AM and PM rush, the rush would change to no congestion. Dropping off passengers in NYC at un-approved stops is too risky. First off, it's not a NJT stop. Second, a NYPD cop can just be a cocky bastard and give me a ticket. No thanks.

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I've kept quiet about this since I don't want to take sides. This is my opinion. If the DOT of NJ wants to reduce congestion at PABT, figure out a way to expand the Port. I think that there is plenty of space that the port can buy and convert to new ports and new areas for buses to access passengers. Also, and I still feel positive in this, if the Lincoln could build a fourth tunnel and make it buses only in the AM and PM rush, the rush would change to no congestion. Dropping off passengers in NYC at un-approved stops is too risky. First off, it's not a NJT stop. Second, a NYPD cop can just be a cocky bastard and give me a ticket. No thanks.

 

 

This would require the PANYNJ to have common sence!

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I like this idea :) And futher more, dropoffs on NY street (like how sometimes they do) would also benifit. I got dropped off near Time Square once off the 139 because Port Authority was doing the ususal bus conga line and personally I liked it better. What was even better the bus driver had the common sense to drop us off at a subway entrance. So it wasn't a hell of walk to get to the (E) train. They should do that more often.

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Having buses directly serve PABT benefits NY patrons & NJ patrons....

 

Having some of those NJT buses embark/disembark pax along manhattan streets in midtown only benefits NJ patrons...

 

Bad equality is bad.

(I wonder who or where that trend of saying "bad _______ is bad" started from)

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I still think it's a good idea, most NJT drivers will tell you that the PM Rush is getting way outta hand. There is an absolute brawl everyday between the drivers of ALL the companies that serve the PABT to get in. Right now it's just been stupid mirror accidents.....eventually there will be a big one because everybody been super aggressive about getting in.

 

I think if they ran Midtown and Wall Street services on the real busy lines like the 126,139,159,161,166,167,190,and 320 it would take some pressure off the Port. Like I said....the status quo can not continue.

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...and increasing the amount of traffic running along manhattan streets would yield the same thing.

 

It's a lose-lose situation.

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...and increasing the amount of traffic running along manhattan streets would yield the same thing.

 

It's a lose-lose situation.

 

 

 

Bro(B35) and others what about the fact in Phiadelphia a couple of South Jersey NJT buses make a couple of stops along Market St in Central(Downtown)Philadelphia? While the rest terminate at the Greyhound station on Filbert and 9th (back of Philly Galleria Mall)? Just playing devils adovcate?

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