Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[JeremiahC99]

7 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I don’t know extending the 84 to serve the    on Euclid is the right choice. You dont need the Q7 and Q8 stopping at the same place. If anything the 84 should serve Grant Avenue since there’s no current terminal since the B12 no longer serves city line. 

If you want to serve the Grant Av station, it would have to go through the Euclid Av station since according the street grid in the area, the option to go via Sutter Av and bypass Euclid Av would be longer and indirect due to the presence of Conduit Blvd blocking access to Grant Av from the south/ You would be better off taking Fountain Av to Pitkin Av, then via Pitkin Av to the Grant Av station. That's how I would envision it.

[darrianQ60]

 i think the b84 should be extended to brooklyn college i would keep the same route to new lots 3 train station and extend from new lots to brooklyn college and also i think the b14 should extend to the casino in queens 

B84 toward brooklyn college 

.  make a left on new lots from cleveland st 

.   Make a left on ashford st  

.  Make a right on hegeman ave 

. Continue on hegeman and Make a right on linden and left on ave D

. Continue on ave D and merge on foster ave

. Continue on foster ave and make a left on kings hwy

. Make a right on ave I

. Take ave I to nostrand and make a right on nostrand ave

. Terminate at ave H      

b84 toward gateway mall

.   Take ave H to kings highway 

.  Turn left on kingshwy and right on foster ave 

.continue on foster and make a left on ave D 

.take ave D to linden blvd and make a right on linden blvd 

. Continue on linden and make a left on hegeman ave 

.continue on hegeman and make a left on cleveland st and then continue on current route to gateway mall 

i think the b84 runing on ave D and foster would be good because there is no bus that runs around there.

 B14 to the casion in queens 

the b14 should cut  out the many turns that it does and just drive straight on pitkin ave with no turns  i see that they did construction work in queens and now pitkin ave goes straight into the casino. I no that this will leave no busses on sutter ave  and mother gaston blvd and dumont ave   that it usually covers but i couldnt figure out what new route that can replace those streets  a  new  but i  didnt figure out that part yet but  this is the route the b14 should drive below 

     B14 to casino 

. Drive on eastern parkway 

. make a right on pitkin ave 

. Continue on pitkin all the way to casino 

       b14 to crown hieghts 

.  Make a right on pitkin ave 

. Continue on pitkin ave then make a right on howard 

. Make a left on eastern parkway and terminate at utica 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:37 PM, darrianQ60 said:

 i think the b84 should be extended to brooklyn college i would keep the same route to new lots 3 train station and extend from new lots to brooklyn college and also i think the b14 should extend to the casino in queens 

What other routes should be cut to pay for all of this?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

24 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

What other routes should be cut to pay for all of this?

We can start with yours... 

[Gotham Bus Co.]

3 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We can start with yours... 

I don't live in Brooklyn. Which Brooklyn routes should be cut to pay for the B14/B84 extension ideas?

[Q43LTD]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:37 PM, darrianQ60 said:

 i think the b84 should be extended to brooklyn college i would keep the same route to new lots 3 train station and extend from new lots to brooklyn college and also i think the b14 should extend to the casino in queens 

B84 toward brooklyn college 

.  make a left on new lots from cleveland st 

.   Make a left on ashford st  

.  Make a right on hegeman ave 

. Continue on hegeman and Make a right on linden and left on ave D

. Continue on ave D and merge on foster ave

. Continue on foster ave and make a left on kings hwy

. Make a right on ave I

. Take ave I to nostrand and make a right on nostrand ave

. Terminate at ave H      

b84 toward gateway mall

.   Take ave H to kings highway 

.  Turn left on kingshwy and right on foster ave 

.continue on foster and make a left on ave D 

.take ave D to linden blvd and make a right on linden blvd 

. Continue on linden and make a left on hegeman ave 

.continue on hegeman and make a left on cleveland st and then continue on current route to gateway mall 

i think the b84 runing on ave D and foster would be good because there is no bus that runs around there.

 B14 to the casion in queens 

the b14 should cut  out the many turns that it does and just drive straight on pitkin ave with no turns  i see that they did construction work in queens and now pitkin ave goes straight into the casino. I no that this will leave no busses on sutter ave  and mother gaston blvd and dumont ave   that it usually covers but i couldnt figure out what new route that can replace those streets  a  new  but i  didnt figure out that part yet but  this is the route the b14 should drive below 

     B14 to casino 

. Drive on eastern parkway 

. make a right on pitkin ave 

. Continue on pitkin all the way to casino 

       b14 to crown heights 

.  Make a right on pitkin ave 

. Continue on pitkin ave then make a right on howard 

. Make a left on eastern parkway and terminate at utica 

Something should be done with the B84, what I don't know but extending it to Brooklyn College ain't it. As far as the B14, I heard extending it to Rockaway Blvd  but the Casino? That's too far

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Something should be done with the B84, what I don't know but extending it to Brooklyn College ain't it. As far as the B14, I heard extending it to Rockaway Blvd  but the Casino? That's too far

I don’t think the B14 and B84 needs to be extended. However, I’d like to see the 14 operate via Pitkin. Takeaway the stress going down Sutter Avenue. 

As for the 84. I’d extend only within East New York // Spring Creek. Any additional extension won’t warrant b/c than you are cutting into other routes. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

28 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

I don't live in Brooklyn. Which Brooklyn routes should be cut to pay for the B14/B84 extension ideas?

Service is and CAN be cut from anywhere to make up for other improvements.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Service is and CAN be cut from anywhere to make up for other improvements.

This whole notion that bus service has to be cut in order to increase service elsewhere is absolutely ridiculous. It just proves this anti-bus bias that I know you agree with. There should be some bus service enhancements without any cuts. 

When subway service is improved, no one asks which subways will be cut to pay for this. When service was increased on the Manhattan Bridge after 14 years, it was a cost increase. When the Second Avenue subway started, no lines were cut. When the M was extended to weekends, there were no cuts. It's only when someone asks for new bus service, the MTA says they have to cut bus service somewhere else to pay for it.  Without new investment, ridership will continue to decline. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

This whole notion that bus service has to be cut in order to increase service elsewhere is absolutely ridiculous. It just proves this anti-bus bias that I know you agree with. There should be some bus service enhancements without any cuts. 

When subway service is improved, no one asks which subways will be cut to pay for this. When service was increased on the Manhattan Bridge after 14 years, it was a cost increase. When the Second Avenue subway started, no lines were cut. When the M was extended to weekends, there were no cuts. It's only when someone asks for new bus service, the MTA says they have to cut bus service somewhere else to pay for it.  Without new investment, ridership will continue to decline. 

Oh I know. I was just being a smart @ss. Gotham Bus has a habit of bitching about the cost of this and that.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

4 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

This whole notion that bus service has to be cut in order to increase service elsewhere is absolutely ridiculous. It just proves this anti-bus bias that I know you agree with. There should be some bus service enhancements without any cuts. 

 

Yes, it's ridiculous, but it's also realistic. I will not apologize for choosing to live in the real world.

[BrooklynBus]

44 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Yes, it's ridiculous, but it's also realistic. I will not apologize for choosing to live in the real world.

It's only realistic when your goal is to carry fewer riders by encouraging a wider use of Uber and Lyft to improve your budget situation. Fewer riders equals less service which equals smaller deficit. 

But the goal should be to encourage ridership, not to erode it. No corporation that wants to expand closes stores or markets to do that. They invest which may take three years to pay off, but it eventually does if the investments are wise. Now I am not saying cuts should never be made or service should just be added willy nilly. 

I know what I am talking about because 40 years ago this month I created the B1 which is the 7th heaviest route in Brooklyn today. The routes it replaced, the B34 (was moderately utilized) and the old pre 1978 B1 and B21 were floundering with poor frequencies and low ridership. A trip that used to take five buses can now be made with two buses and if the entire proposal would have been accepted, it would have been a ne bus trip. That's how you increase ridership by making it easier to travel, not by making it more difficult. 

[Q43LTD]

Isn't the B1 the proposed B86 though?

[BrooklynBus]

16 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Isn't the B1 the proposed B86 though?

The proposed B86 would have started from Shore Road and 3rd Avenue picking up the end of the B16 with every other bus starting at 4th Avenue. If I proposed it today, I would start it at Shore Road and 86 St and extend the B9 all the way down Shore Road so that those riders could take one bus to the express stop at 59 St. 

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I don’t think the B14 and B84 needs to be extended. However, I’d like to see the 14 operate via Pitkin. Takeaway the stress going down Sutter Avenue. 

As for the 84. I’d extend only within East New York // Spring Creek. Any additional extension won’t warrant b/c than you are cutting into other routes. 

Personally, I think the Q7, Q112, and the B14 should end at Rockaway Blvd. (A).... The Q7 doesn't do much for Brooklyn riders & the MTA keeps shifting the B14 terminal on the eastern end of the route.....

The B84 shouldn't even be a thing.

Edited October 29, 2018 by B35 via Church

[darrianQ60]

The b14 going to the casino is not far when the b14 goes across cross bay blvd via pitkin ave there is no more stop lights and it is just 7 blocks from crossbay blvd to casino 

The b84 going to brooklyn college to me is not a bad idea because every route in gateway mall does not carry you to east flatbush or flatbush or even carnsie and flatlands  all the route in gateway goes north in brooklyn in area like east new york and Brownsville  there is no route in gateway mall that carrys you more west in brooklyn it only carrys you north 

Also there is no bus route that runs on foster ave between kings hwy and remsen ave and there is no route the runs on ave D from remsen ave  to linden blvd 

[Future ENY OP]

17 minutes ago, darrianQ60 said:

The b14 going to the casino is not far when the b14 goes across cross bay blvd via pitkin ave there is no more stop lights and it is just 7 blocks from crossbay blvd to casino 

The b84 going to brooklyn college to me is not a bad idea because every route in gateway mall does not carry you to east flatbush or flatbush or even carnsie and flatlands  all the route in gateway goes north in brooklyn in area like east new york and Brownsville  there is no route in gateway mall that carrys you more west in brooklyn it only carrys you north 

Also there is no bus route that runs on foster ave between kings hwy and remsen ave and there is no route the runs on ave D from remsen ave  to linden blvd 

Here's the problem that I have with the 84 and it is simply this. The route is strictly a Spring Creek // East New York route only servicing the community. There's no easy way of marketing a route like the 84 to go towards Flatbush and Brooklyn College. Although the B6, B11, B103 go to Brooklyn College I personally don't think the 84 has a chance to go to Brooklyn College.  I don't think there's enough space to terminate the 84 and plus I don't think people from Flatbush are going to take a long trip to East New York // Spring Creek to gateway. That's already done by the B6.

 

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Personally, I think the Q7, Q112, and the B14 should end at Rockaway Blvd. (A).... The Q7 doesn't do much for Brooklyn riders & the MTA keeps shifting the B14 terminal on the eastern end of the route.....

The B84 shouldn't even be a thing.

The Q7 is plainly a airport bus and really has no business ending at Euclid. The route itself carries too much air. However, it has it moments.

B14: To me it has no business ending at Rockaway Blvd . I'm just curious about the marketing and ridership between that end of Ozone Park and Crown Heights. Personally, if I lived in Ozone Park and I wanted anyway to get into Brooklyn via Bus it wouldn't be the B14. Most Ozone Park riders going into Brooklyn are using the B13- City Line, Q24 on Atlantic and the Train. Now, if you tell me the B14 to Grant Avenue or even Sheridan Avenue I'd accept that just only b/c it has a long trek to Crown Heights.

[Yankees4life]

B84 to Brooklyn College? No thanks. We have enough routes ending there. I think I'll stick to my B84 to Broadway Junction proposal although I do like the idea of sending it to Rockaway Parkway Station. Easy connection to the and a multitude of other routes

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

The Q7 is plainly a airport bus and really has no business ending at Euclid. The route itself carries too much air. However, it has it moments.

B14: To me it has no business ending at Rockaway Blvd . I'm just curious about the marketing and ridership between that end of Ozone Park and Crown Heights. Personally, if I lived in Ozone Park and I wanted anyway to get into Brooklyn via Bus it wouldn't be the B14. Most Ozone Park riders going into Brooklyn are using the B13- City Line, Q24 on Atlantic and the Train. Now, if you tell me the B14 to Grant Avenue or even Sheridan Avenue I'd accept that just only b/c it has a long trek to Crown Heights.

The Q7 more or less carries air on the Brooklyn portion (which is why I would cut that back to the ).... I mean, it serves areas where Brooklynites aren't really heading to.... IMO, it's a reason they chose to extend the Q8 (for as much mileage it already had prior) to Gateway instead of the Q7 there; it being a better draw & all..... And nah, the Q7 is just as much an airport bus as the Q6 is & the whole route hardly carries air on the Queens portion, fam...

I would use the B14 for that basic connection to Woodhaven/Cross Bay Blvd, instead of the Q7.... IDK whether I find it sad or funny to see buses tanking at the Cypress houses & seeing so many people walk northward towards the subway..... Sure, you could end it at Euclild or Grant av subway, but I personally wouldn't leave that portion of Pitkin/Sutter the Q7 currently serves with nothing, either.....

[Future ENY OP]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The Q7 more or less carries air on the Brooklyn portion (which is why I would cut that back to the ).... I mean, it serves areas where Brooklynites aren't really heading to.... IMO, it's a reason they chose to extend the Q8 (for as much mileage it already had prior) to Gateway instead of the Q7 there; it being a better draw & all..... And nah, the Q7 is just as much an airport bus as the Q6 is & the whole route hardly carries air on the Queens portion, fam...

I would use the B14 for that basic connection to Woodhaven/Cross Bay Blvd, instead of the Q7.... IDK whether I find it sad or funny to see buses tanking at the Cypress houses & seeing so many people walk northward towards the subway..... Sure, you could end it at Euclild or Grant av subway, but I personally wouldn't leave that portion of Pitkin/Sutter the Q7 currently serves with nothing, either.....

To me it's really sad how the current Brooklyn bus grid was designed for some of these buses to end in obscured places like Cypress Hills Houses and etc. When I see buses like the Q7, Q8, B13, B14, B15*, B20 really end at very weird places like the Brooklyn Postal Facility // Pink Houses and other areas in East New York. Sometimes you ask should some of these routes need to be extended into Queens just to make up some service. 

Although you have the B15 which is the main airport bus. Some of us including myself have indicated in the past that the B20 should be the other bus to possibly service the airport or even parts of Ozone Park. As for the B14, although I'm not a big fan of ending the line in Ozone Park but I will agree with you on this. Ending it on Rockaway serves a few things.

1) If there is a disruption of service b/w East New York and Ozone Park you have a easy connection with the Q11/21/52/53.

2) Additional service is provided on Pitkin as you indicated as the Q7 carries so much air in that area of Ozone Park.

3) Patrons from Crown Heights and Brownsville that work in Ozone Park have a opportunity for a 1 seat ride. (Can't believe I'm saying this)

6 hours ago, Yankees4life said:

B84 to Brooklyn College? No thanks. We have enough routes ending there. I think I'll stick to my B84 to Broadway Junction proposal although I do like the idea of sending it to Rockaway Parkway Station. Easy connection to the and a multitude of other routes

3 things for this B84:

A) Buses going via Livonia, Penn to Broadway Junction.

B) Buses going via Cozine, Glenwood to the since the bus only lane is in effect on Glenwood.

C) DO NOTHING.

[JeremiahC99]

13 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

It's only realistic when your goal is to carry fewer riders by encouraging a wider use of Uber and Lyft to improve your budget situation. Fewer riders equals less service which equals smaller deficit. 

But the goal should be to encourage ridership, not to erode it. No corporation that wants to expand closes stores or markets to do that. They invest which may take three years to pay off, but it eventually does if the investments are wise. Now I am not saying cuts should never be made or service should just be added willy nilly. 

I know what I am talking about because 40 years ago this month I created the B1 which is the 7th heaviest route in Brooklyn today. The routes it replaced, the B34 (was moderately utilized) and the old pre 1978 B1 and B21 were floundering with poor frequencies and low ridership. A trip that used to take five buses can now be made with two buses and if the entire proposal would have been accepted, it would have been a ne bus trip. That's how you increase ridership by making it easier to travel, not by making it more difficult. 

I agree with you. The more service, the better. 

 

On that end, I would like to propose both an extension of the B14 to Gateway Center Mall via the back roads of the Postal Faciltiy, stopping once at Forbell St near Cozine Avenue, through the back roads to Flatlands Avenue, then continue to the Gateway Mall. Service would not serve the Postal Facility Loop. The Postal Facility loop is one block away from Elderts Lane, so nothing would be lost. Additionally, the route would be rerouted to serve the Euclid Avenue station on the lines.

 

Note that this was proposed by you in 2004 in this site: http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/id20.html. That page also contained a few other changes to serve gateway that have since been implemented (Proposal N: B83 to Gateway, Proposal O: Q8 to Gateway, which was modified before implementation). 

[JeremiahC99]

14 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

The proposed B86 would have started from Shore Road and 3rd Avenue picking up the end of the B16 with every other bus starting at 4th Avenue. If I proposed it today, I would start it at Shore Road and 86 St and extend the B9 all the way down Shore Road so that those riders could take one bus to the express stop at 59 St. 

What a great idea. Not to mention that more of your proposals would've complemented this, such as the combining the B64 and B70 via VA Hospital and 95th Street station, through routes along both Ft. Hamilton Pkwy and 13th/14th Avenues, bus service on 65th Street, and splitting of the now defunct B23. I have modified some of them to better suit current riders:

• Your proposed B86 along 86th Street would become an extension of the B1. All buses would operate between Shore Road and Manhattan Beach
• Your proposed B1 route along 65th Street, Avenue P and Avenue R would become an extension of the B2, using the route you proposed.
• Service on 16th Avenue and Cortelyou Road would be provided agin as follows:
  • The Proposed B21 would carry the B23 designation. It would operate from 86th Street station, via the route you proposed, but instead of ending at Kings Hwy and Beverly Road, where nothing exists, it would head east along Beverly Road, Avenue B, and Remsen Avenue to Canarsie Plaza, improving travel to that shopping center. One modification I made was for 86th Street-bound buses, once they reach 60th Street, to head east on 60th Street, south on New Utrect Avenues, and 14th Avenue, and west on 61st Street to 13th Avenue to resume the normal route. This would improve access to the subway by directly serving the 62nd Street/New Utrecht station, which serves two subway lines, providing redundancy if one of the two subway lines there are out.
  • Service on 16th Avenue would be served by extending routes on McDonald Avenue to operate along 16th Avenue.

There are other mods I made to these proposals, which by the way are a piece or art and ingenious, and most of the system to suit riders of 2018, but my map has not been complete yet due to timing issues. Once that is done, there will be a visual representation of how the proposals look.

Edited October 29, 2018 by JeremiahC99

[BrooklynBus]

18 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

What a great idea. Not to mention that more of your proposals would've complemented this, such as the combining the B64 and B70 via VA Hospital and 95th Street station, through routes along both Ft. Hamilton Pkwy and 13th/14th Avenues, bus service on 65th Street, and splitting of the now defunct B23. I have modified some of them to better suit current riders:

• Your proposed B86 along 86th Street would become an extension of the B1. All buses would operate between Shore Road and Manhattan Beach
• Your proposed B1 route along 65th Street, Avenue P and Avenue R would become an extension of the B2, using the route you proposed.
• Service on 16th Avenue and Cortelyou Road would be provided agin as follows:
  • The Proposed B21 would carry the B23 designation. It would operate from 86th Street station, via the route you proposed, but instead of ending at Kings Hwy and Beverly Road, where nothing exists, it would head east along Beverly Road, Avenue B, and Remsen Avenue to Canarsie Plaza, improving travel to that shopping center. One modification I made was for 86th Street-bound buses, once they reach 60th Street, to head east on 60th Street, south on New Utrect Avenues, and 14th Avenue, and west on 61st Street to 13th Avenue to resume the normal route. This would improve access to the subway by directly serving the 62nd Street/New Utrecht station, which serves two subway lines, providing redundancy if one of the two subway lines there are out.
  • Service on 16th Avenue would be served by extending routes on McDonald Avenue to operate along 16th Avenue.

There are other mods I made to these proposals, which by the way are a piece or art and ingenious, and most of the system to suit riders of 2018, but my map has not been complete yet due to timing issues. Once that is done, there will be a visual representation of how the proposals look.

I hope you will be submitting your ideas to the MTA. One note. I believe there would not be enough demand to run all B1s from Shore Road. It would be wasteful. Also, I would retain the B16 school specials to Ft Hamilton High School although the regular B16 would no longer go to Shore Rd. 

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

To me it's really sad how the current Brooklyn bus grid was designed for some of these buses to end in obscured places like Cypress Hills Houses and etc. When I see buses like the Q7, Q8, B13, B14, B15*, B20 really end at very weird places like the Brooklyn Postal Facility // Pink Houses and other areas in East New York. Sometimes you ask should some of these routes need to be extended into Queens just to make up some service. 

Although you have the B15 which is the main airport bus. Some of us including myself have indicated in the past that the B20 should be the other bus to possibly service the airport or even parts of Ozone Park. As for the B14, although I'm not a big fan of ending the line in Ozone Park but I will agree with you on this. Ending it on Rockaway serves a few things.

1) If there is a disruption of service b/w East New York and Ozone Park you have a easy connection with the Q11/21/52/53.

2) Additional service is provided on Pitkin as you indicated as the Q7 carries so much air in that area of Ozone Park.

3) Patrons from Crown Heights and Brownsville that work in Ozone Park have a opportunity for a 1 seat ride. (Can't believe I'm saying this)

I'd say it pinpoints just how antiquated/un-modernized a number of these routes in the system are...

I would make other changes to the thing, but as far as its end terminals, I've been saying for years now that the B20 should be cut back to Myrtle on the northern/western end & extended to Lefferts Airtrain on the southern/eastern end.... The current amt. of short turn trips at B'way Junction should remain.... It's (the 20) an afterthought over there around Forest av  & there could be a little more service to (at least) said Airtrain station, since running every B15 trip from Woodhull to JFK (Lefferts Airtrain or JFK T5) would be a bit much, to say the least....

Basically, I never cared for the Brooklyn GMF as this congregation point... I had no qualms when they discontinued the B15 out of there & the B14 doesn't really need to head in that direction (south of Sutter out there); despite the constant shifting of terminal points on that end of the route over the years.... I would only leave the B13 directly looping in & out of it....

To sum it up, my issue with the B14 is that it doesn't really do too much for those folks down around Linden Plaza (apartments) & the Pink houses, along Linden Blvd there... As was said, there is too much walking being done from Sutter/Euclid to Euclid  from off that route & it shouldn't/doesn't necessarily have to be - Especially while EB buses are running relatively empty after it serves Sutter/Euclid.... Folks down around Linden Blvd are taking B13's & Q8's to get to Euclid subway anyway & if it's for service back west, the masses all pile onto B15's (and to a lesser extent, the B20)... Running the B14 to Linden blvd, and eventually on down to the GMF, is overkill - those resources should be better used elsewhere AFAIC... To hell with me though - Whether it's to Euclid  itself or to Rockaway Blvd  (to take the place of the Q7's stint in Brooklyn), would be, at minimum, appreciated by current riders of the B14 on/around the more eastern portion of the route....

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

3 things for this B84:

A) Buses going via Livonia, Penn to Broadway Junction.

B) Buses going via Cozine, Glenwood to the since the bus only lane is in effect on Glenwood.

C) DO NOTHING.

D) Get rid of it. ☑️

Edited October 29, 2018 by B35 via Church

[JeremiahC99]

9 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I hope you will be submitting your ideas to the MTA. One note. I believe there would not be enough demand to run all B1s from Shore Road. It would be wasteful. Also, I would retain the B16 school specials to Ft Hamilton High School although the regular B16 would no longer go to Shore Rd. 

I’ll take that into account, but thanks for bring up the school tripper. I forgot to take that into account when making my map. And speaking of that, do you know of any schools in Brooklyn that COULD use some school trippers?