Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[JayJay]

Yes. A extra 15 minutes run added to an unserved area.

[B35 via Church]

On 11/8/2018 at 7:04 PM, Just New York said:

I had high hopes for my area when they created the B84 there’re under utilizing the line....

Spring Creek residents en masse simply aren't utilizing the thing.....

I personally think the B84 is one huge slap in the face for everyone that takes the bus in that general region of Brooklyn... Those 2 buses should've been used as fodder for other pre-existing routes....

On 11/8/2018 at 7:04 PM, Just New York said:

B84 New Lots Av-ENY/ Gateway Mall 

Current Route Between Gateway Mall-Flatlands/ Jerome.

WB: Straight on Flatlands, Right In Van Siclen, left  Wortmen, Right Penn Av, Right New Lots, Right Ashford, Left Hegemen, left Cleveland to New Lots Station.

EB: Laviona Straight, Left Penn Av, Left Wortmen, Right Van Siclen, Left Flatlands Current Route to Gateway Mall. 

You have the [B20 doing the current B83 routing B'way Junction & Van Siclen/Wortman] & you have the [B83 running clear along Penn]... Much of nobody around the Linden & Penn-Wortman houses would take a bus that backtracks to New Lots like that.... They would gun for your modified B20 or your B83....

On 11/19/2018 at 10:53 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

Also, I may have a better idea to serve the facility and the surrounding community:

Extension of the B14:

Service to the Postal Facility Loop would be discontinued. Once the route reaches Stanley Av, it would head east along Stanley, then south along Forbell before reaching the back roads of the facility. It would make one stop at the back road, near Forbell Street and Cozine Av, then proceed through the facility internal roadways to Flatlands Av, then west along Flatlands Av and follow the routing of the routes there to the Gateway Center Bus Terminal. This proposal may require the cooperation of the facility to work, but it can be done. Passengers for the eliminated route can walk one block or transfer to the B13 or B20 at Stanley Av or Linden Blvd.

 

One benefit is that it would provide bus service to the small community bounded by Flatlands Av, Cozine Av, Grant Av, and Forbell St, improving travel out of their small isolated community.

Ridiculous.

You are the last person I want to hear complaining about your mail not promptly being delivered....

Running buses through the USPS distribution center... smh...

On 11/20/2018 at 4:02 PM, JayJay said:

....B15 service was removed from the Postal Facility several years ago inconveniencing those who worked the night shift and the B13 stops at both the Postal Facility and Flatlands/Fountain Ave where FedEx is located

It was also an inconvenience for those who worked graveyard at JFK.... Good riddance.

Edited November 23, 2018 by B35 via Church

[JeremiahC99]

32 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Ridiculous.

You are the last person I want to hear complaining about your mail not promptly being delivered....

Running buses through the USPS distribution center... smh...

There's also an option of having the DOT connect the main section of Flatlands Avenue and the section of Flatlands Avenue that forms the boundary of a small community south of the USPS facility. The route would be like what is proposed in 2004 in Proposal M on this page: http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/id20.html, which I recommend you take a look at. I also considered having the B14 follow the B13 route to the mall, but found that it would be to redundant and not serve new markets (the two block community south of the USPS distribution center). The USPS routing is just a placeholder until I can find a better, non-duplicative route for the extension.

[JayJay]

And the B103 extension to Fountain Ave or Mail Facility you say what?

[Future ENY OP]

3 hours ago, JayJay said:

And the B103 extension to Fountain Ave or Mail Facility you say what?

I don't mean to say this. However, spare me the bulls*it on this. The 103 has no business servicing Fountain Avenue and the Brooklyn Postal Facility.

That's the job for the current routes: B13, B14, B15, B20. Maybe the B84 can make that stop also it serves as an unofficial Spring Creek loop.

Years ago I remember taking the BM2 by request to Ashford and Cozine. Once the took over, all bets off for the BM2-East New York service now being serviced by the current BM5 to Spring Creek-Seaview Ave aka (Old BQM1) service to Canarsie-Seaview Avenue-East 80th Street // Rush Hours. 

Peep the reality to this situation: The travel time between East New York and Downtown Brooklyn. On a good day 2 hours via the 103. (Not reasonable)

[FLX9304]

9 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I don't mean to say this. However, spare me the bulls*it on this. The 103 has no business servicing Fountain Avenue and the Brooklyn Postal Facility.

That's the job for the current routes: B13, B14, B15, B20. Maybe the B84 can make that stop also it serves as an unofficial Spring Creek loop.

Years ago I remember taking the BM2 by request to Ashford and Cozine. Once the took over, all bets off for the BM2-East New York service now being serviced by the current BM5 to Spring Creek-Seaview Ave aka (Old BQM1) service to Canarsie-Seaview Avenue-East 80th Street // Rush Hours. 

Peep the reality to this situation: The travel time between East New York and Downtown Brooklyn. On a good day 2 hours via the 103. (Not reasonable)

I agree with the B84 serving there. 

[Future ENY OP]

I have an special announcement for the Spring Creek folk:

Please keep your entitlement issues only with the B83 & B84. Using other routes to justify Spring Creek service is completely unacceptable. Some routes travel very obscured places in Brooklyn. The current transit grid doesn't allow this. 

The kicker is the Flatbush/Downtown Brooklyn to Spring Creek. Please I beg you all to attend Community Board meetings in East NY and recommend the B84 to do more work in East New York, Spring Creek and perhaps Ozone Park.

[FLX9304]

10 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I have an special announcement for the Spring Creek folk:

Please keep your entitlement issues only with the B83 & B84. Using other routes to justify Spring Creek service is completely unacceptable. Some routes travel very obscured places in Brooklyn. The current transit grid doesn't allow this. 

The kicker is the Flatbush/Downtown Brooklyn to Spring Creek. Please I beg you all to attend Community Board meetings in East NY and recommend the B84 to do more work in East New York, Spring Creek and perhaps Ozone Park.

How far in OzP? I used to live on 89th St & Liberty Ave from Oct 1990-May 1992. No bus route serves there, but 3  Stops (80th, 88th & Rock Blvd)

[Orion6025]

23 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

perhaps Ozone Park.

On what road though. The B84 would be supplemental wherever it goes if it heads east.

If anything I'd send it north to Jamaica Avenue, then have it cut across to Broadway Junction to provide a small N/S "crosstown" in that section of Brooklyn since there's a bit of a gap there with the B83 and B13. Then again I don't know if serving that corridor would be necessary. On one hand, it looks like that would make it a different version of the B83, but perhaps its selling point could be that it's faster, a la B32 via B62 from LIC to Williamsburg?

[Future ENY OP]

2 hours ago, Orion6025 said:

On what road though. The B84 would be supplemental wherever it goes if it heads east.

If anything I'd send it north to Jamaica Avenue, then have it cut across to Broadway Junction to provide a small N/S "crosstown" in that section of Brooklyn since there's a bit of a gap there with the B83 and B13. Then again I don't know if serving that corridor would be necessary. On one hand, it looks like that would make it a different version of the B83, but perhaps its selling point could be that it's faster, a la B32 via B62 from LIC to Williamsburg?

I was thinking about City Line-  Liberty/Sheridan/Grant and terminate on Rockaway Boulevard going via Liberty. 

[Brillant93]

The B84 seems like its just a bus that would serve the community that is newly built. Its most likely similar to other routes such as the B42 that is there to provide service to a train. I don't think it would benefit from going to queens because you have the Q8 that goes to Jamaica and the B13 to Ridgewood. The only other place I can see the B84 going to is Broadway junction because it provides people in that new area more options to get around the city and I would have it serve all the way on penn avenue. 

[B35 via Church]

On 11/22/2018 at 9:42 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

There's also an option of having the DOT connect the main section of Flatlands Avenue and the section of Flatlands Avenue that forms the boundary of a small community south of the USPS facility. The route would be like what is proposed in 2004 in Proposal M on this page: http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/id20.html, which I recommend you take a look at. I also considered having the B14 follow the B13 route to the mall, but found that it would be to redundant and not serve new markets (the two block community south of the USPS distribution center). The USPS routing is just a placeholder until I can find a better, non-duplicative route for the extension.

I know exactly where & what you're referring to & I would be much more receptive to the DOT connecting those two sections of Flatlands, than to have public buses traversing through the frickin USPS facility.... Even if it's for public transit, I'm not going to advocate for anything that directly & purposely impedes & delays the transit of mail.....

Instead of having that suggestion be some sort of mulligan, it shouldn't have been blurted out at all...

On 11/23/2018 at 1:36 AM, Future ENY OP said:

I don't mean to say this. However, spare me the bulls*it on this. The 103 has no business servicing Fountain Avenue and the Brooklyn Postal Facility....

Lol... Yeah, you should've been around here when people were talking about having 103's running to Starrett... running to Gateway.... even running to JFK T4 (back when buses ended at T4 instead of T5 like they do now)...

People tend to forget that the B103 was scaled back (in terms of route mileage) to even terminate at the Breukelen houses.... The older routing (which was a relic from the Command days) had buses doing stupid shit; running down 80th, east across Av M, up 105th, then back west across Av j, up Remsen, across Flatlands, to end over there at 94th....

[Future ENY OP]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

Lol... Yeah, you should've been around here when people were talking about having 103's running to Starrett... running to Gateway.... even running to JFK T4 (back when buses ended at T4 instead of T5 like they do now)...

People tend to forget that the B103 was scaled back (in terms of route mileage) to even terminate at the Breukelen houses.... The older routing (which was a relic from the Command days) had buses doing stupid shit; running down 80th, east across Av M, up 105th, then back west across Av j, up Remsen, across Flatlands, to end over there at 94th....

I sure do remember those days. Been on here since '07 and remember those conversations vividly. Back then when the 103 and the BM2 ended on 94th and Flatlands. That routing was so weird. That backend area eventually got covered by the BQM1 during rush hours to Seaview Avenue-East 80th Street.

Too bad this day there is no real full time coverage for the backend of East 80th with exception of the B17 for rush hour service. However, no express service. I think Seaview Avenue deserves some sort of express rush hour service to 108th. Maybe existing BM2 rush hour service to 108th (if marketed correctly).

[JeremiahC99]

22 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I know exactly where & what you're referring to & I would be much more receptive to the DOT connecting those two sections of Flatlands, than to have public buses traversing through the frickin USPS facility.... Even if it's for public transit, I'm not going to advocate for anything that directly & purposely impedes & delays the transit of mail.....

Instead of having that suggestion be some sort of mulligan, it shouldn't have been blurted out at all...

I was not proposing that the B14 make any stops in the facility. When I meant was that service would make one stop near Cozine Av, then go nonstop through the facility. Wen I have that map, which has been delayed many times now due to timing issues, you will see that there will be no stops in the facility.

 

This would be similar to the operation of the Q28 through the Bay Terrace Shopping Center parking lot between 212th Street and Bell Blvd and the S89 at the 34th Street HBLR station, and to some extent, the S46/96 at the West Shore Plaza terminal. The buses and cars would follow each other out of the lot to/from their parking spots so any vehicular traffic in the facility lot would not be delayed. In addition, service through the facility would run at all times except late nights, where buses would serve the B13 route to Fountain Avenue and teh Forbell Street route to Cozine Avenue as two branches. I was also in cosideration of doing a Q1 and having service go through Forbell St, then via the B13 routing.

 

If the two Flatlands sections are conected, then all of this silly overnight branch service would be done away with. Rather, buses will now proceed south along Forbell Street to Flatlands Avenue, stopping at Forbell/Cozine and another at Flatlands/Grant. Buses would then proceed straight onto the new connection to Fountain Avenue, eliminating any interference to mail operations. Another benefit of this connection, another direct way out of that small community is formed, potentially reducing traffic on Stanley Avenue and Linden Blvd. Now why didn't they make this connection a long time ago?

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by JeremiahC99

[JeremiahC99]

37 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Too bad this day there is no real full time coverage for the backend of East 80th with exception of the B17 for rush hour service. However, no express service. I think Seaview Avenue deserves some sort of express rush hour service to 108th. Maybe existing BM2 rush hour service to 108th (if marketed correctly).

Maybe re-brand that branch the B27 and have it operate it 24 hours a day with 8-15 minute headways between 5:00 AM to 1:00 AM and every 20 minutes between 1:00 AM and 5:00 AM. This would ensure better service for those who need it going to/from Rockaway Pkwy  and Utica Avenue .

 

To complement this, holding lights would be installed at Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy to alert bus drivers to not leave when lit. Installed at the southwest corner of Utica Avenue and Eastern Pkwy in front of the bus stops, they would be coordinated with the arrival of New Lots Avenue-bound  trains and hold Spring Creek-bound B14 buses, Canarsie-bound B17 buses, and Kings Plaza-bound B46 buses for 5 minutes after the train passes a circuit breaker in the tracks that activates the lights. This is similar to the operation of the holding lights at Coney Island that holds the Coney Island-bound B36 and Spring Creek-bound B82 for  train passengers. Holding lights would also be installed at Rockaway Pkwy to hold buses there.

All of these ideas would make commuting in Canarsie by public transportation easier.

 

For more information about the holding lights at Coney Island, see this page for more information: http://www.mta.info/news-brooklyn-stillwell-avenue-buses-new-york-city-transit-subway/2014/03/07/holding-bus-trains

Edited November 25, 2018 by JeremiahC99

[JayJay]

3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was not proposing that the B14 make any stops in the facility. When I meant was that service would make one stop near Cozine Av, then go nonstop through the facility. Wen I have that map, which has been delayed many times now due to timing issues, you will see that there will be no stops in the facility.

 

This would be similar to the operation of the Q28 through the Bay Terrace Shopping Center parking lot between 212th Street and Bell Blvd and the S89 at the 34th Street HBLR station, and to some extent, the S46/96 at the West Shore Plaza terminal. The buses and cars would follow each other out of the lot to/from their parking spots so any vehicular traffic in the facility lot would not be delayed. In addition, service through the facility would run at all times except late nights, where buses would serve the B13 route to Fountain Avenue and teh Forbell Street route to Cozine Avenue as two branches. I was also in cosideration of doing a Q1 and having service go through Forbell St, then via the B13 routing.

 

If the two Flatlands sections are conected, then all of this silly overnight branch service would be done away with. Rather, buses will now proceed south along Forbell Street to Flatlands Avenue, stopping at Forbell/Cozine and another at Flatlands/Grant. Buses would then proceed straight onto the new connection to Fountain Avenue, eliminating any interference to mail operations. Another benefit of this connection, another direct way out of that small community is formed, potentially reducing traffic on Stanley Avenue and Linden Blvd. Now why didn't they make this connection a long time ago?

 

NONE of the MTA buses that enter the mail facility have an impact on mail service or delivery.  It is only a bus loop with a separate entrance to the facility on Stanley Ave. ALL mail trucks use a separate entrance on 

 

3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was not proposing that the B14 make any stops in the facility. When I meant was that service would make one stop near Cozine Av, then go nonstop through the facility. Wen I have that map, which has been delayed many times now due to timing issues, you will see that there will be no stops in the facility.

 

This would be similar to the operation of the Q28 through the Bay Terrace Shopping Center parking lot between 212th Street and Bell Blvd and the S89 at the 34th Street HBLR station, and to some extent, the S46/96 at the West Shore Plaza terminal. The buses and cars would follow each other out of the lot to/from their parking spots so any vehicular traffic in the facility lot would not be delayed. In addition, service through the facility would run at all times except late nights, where buses would serve the B13 route to Fountain Avenue and teh Forbell Street route to Cozine Avenue as two branches. I was also in cosideration of doing a Q1 and having service go through Forbell St, then via the B13 routing.

 

If the two Flatlands sections are conected, then all of this silly overnight branch service would be done away with. Rather, buses will now proceed south along Forbell Street to Flatlands Avenue, stopping at Forbell/Cozine and another at Flatlands/Grant. Buses would then proceed straight onto the new connection to Fountain Avenue, eliminating any interference to mail operations. Another benefit of this connection, another direct way out of that small community is formed, potentially reducing traffic on Stanley Avenue and Linden Blvd. Now why didn't they make this connection a long time ago?

 

NONE of the MTA buses entering the mail facility impact mail service or delivery. Buses loop in and out on Stanley/Sheridan Ave on north side of facility and was designed for MTA pickup and dropoff when the building was built in 1993. Many members of the community wait there and transfer buses because of safety as armed Postal police are on site 24/7 as well as postal and sanitation employees who use public transit on various shifts. All mail trucks enter and leave on Flatlands Ave south side of the facility east of Spring Creek depot and Fountain Ave

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was not proposing that the B14 make any stops in the facility. When I meant was that service would make one stop near Cozine Av, then go nonstop through the facility. Wen I have that map, which has been delayed many times now due to timing issues, you will see that there will be no stops in the facility.

This would be similar to the operation of the Q28 through the Bay Terrace Shopping Center parking lot between 212th Street and Bell Blvd and the S89 at the 34th Street HBLR station, and to some extent, the S46/96 at the West Shore Plaza terminal. The buses and cars would follow each other out of the lot to/from their parking spots so any vehicular traffic in the facility lot would not be delayed. In addition, service through the facility would run at all times except late nights, where buses would serve the B13 route to Fountain Avenue and teh Forbell Street route to Cozine Avenue as two branches. I was also in cosideration of doing a Q1 and having service go through Forbell St, then via the B13 routing.

If the two Flatlands sections are conected, then all of this silly overnight branch service would be done away with. Rather, buses will now proceed south along Forbell Street to Flatlands Avenue, stopping at Forbell/Cozine and another at Flatlands/Grant. Buses would then proceed straight onto the new connection to Fountain Avenue, eliminating any interference to mail operations. Another benefit of this connection, another direct way out of that small community is formed, potentially reducing traffic on Stanley Avenue and Linden Blvd. Now why didn't they make this connection a long time ago?

Never said or intimated anything about you proposing buses make stops inside there; that doesn't give the suggestion anymore plausibility anyway.... Emphasizing in clarifying that it'd run nonstop through there is immaterial.... That's not what that's for..... Logistically speaking, it would still disrupt (no matter how slight) the flow of mail trucks running in & out of there (which is exactly why I snarkily mentioned that you better be the last person complaining about late mail in an earlier reply).... You're talking about showcasing a map that'd illustrate that buses would not make stops inside that part of the USPS facility, but blurt out 3 examples of bus routes that serve those separate destinations in question? The M103 running through Park Row would've been a better example of the purpose you're trying to convey....

As to why that connection wasn't made a long time ago, well bear in mind that small pocket of residences weren't always there.... It's relatively new...

 

 

[Future ENY OP]

11 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was also in consideration of doing a Q1 and having service go through Forbell St, then via the B13 routing.

 

I'm going to ask you a strange question. What does the Q1 have to do with this service???? (Q1- Jamaica-Queens Village & Bellerose)

The existing routes in the fore-mentioned area are the B13, B14, B15 and B20. Again if anything the 84 needs to possibly service the mail facility. At least lets keep the 84 within the confines of East New York and Spring Creek.

[JeremiahC99]

14 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I'm going to ask you a strange question. What does the Q1 have to do with this service???? (Q1- Jamaica-Queens Village & Bellerose)

I was proposing the extended B14 do something similar to what that route does (I.e, service operates on one branch in one direction, then via another branch in the other direction). In the case of my extended B14, in Spring Creek, late night service would operate southbound on Forbell Street, then northbound on the B13 routing via Flatlands Avenue, like a loop.

Edited November 25, 2018 by JeremiahC99

[Future ENY OP]

6 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I was proposing the extended B14 do something similar to what that route does (I.e, service operates on one branch, then via another branch). In the case of my extended B14, in Spring Creek service would operate southbound on Forbell Street, then northbound on the B13 routing via Flatlands Avenue, like a loop.

The only concern that I have with that is the B14 travels a good chunk of Brownsville and East New York- Sutter Avenue. I don't know if those riders are looking for a continuous loop around Spring Creek into the mall and Valhalla Avenue. Thus it is better for the 84 to utilize the service better.

[JeremiahC99]

22 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

The only concern that I have with that is the B14 travels a good chunk of Brownsville and East New York- Sutter Avenue. I don't know if those riders are looking for a continuous loop around Spring Creek into the mall and Valhalla Avenue. Thus it is better for the 84 to utilize the service better.

This is for late night service when the B14 won’t serve the mall. Southbound service would travel southbound on Forbell Street, then west on Flatlands Avenue, whose two sections would be connected, then terminate at Crescent Street and Flatlands Avenue. From there, it would travel north to the regular route via the B13 routing to Elderts Lane, where it would resume the normal route. During the day time, when the B13 is operating, the B14 would serve Forbell in both directions.

 

The purpose of the B14 extension is to better service Brownsville, East NY, and Spring Creek by giving direct service to the Gateway Mall. The routing through Forbell is to serve new markets since that small community south of the facility never had Bus service close to them. Having the buses travel the B13 route during the day would be too duplicative and not serve that small community.

[Just New York]

On 11/22/2018 at 8:58 PM, B35 via Church said:

Spring Creek residents en masse simply aren't utilizing the thing.....

I personally think the B84 is one huge slap in the face for everyone that takes the bus in that general region of Brooklyn... Those 2 buses should've been used as fodder for other pre-existing routes....

You have the [B20 doing the current B83 routing B'way Junction & Van Siclen/Wortman] & you have the [B83 running clear along Penn]... Much of nobody around the Linden & Penn-Wortman houses would take a bus that backtracks to New Lots like that.... They would gun for your modified B20 or your B83....

Ridiculous.

You are the last person I want to hear complaining about your mail not promptly being delivered....

Running buses through the USPS distribution center... smh...

It was also an inconvenience for those who worked graveyard at JFK.... Good riddance.

You help the B20 ridership plus streamline Pennsylvania ave. Starrett City definitely has a good chuck of the ridership of the B83 so you actually save both routes time. Anybody that live Between the Juction and New Lots Av still can use either routes. Linden, Blvd, Fairfield  residents will all use the B20 now instead of the B83 which will be much faster now that will help attract people to use it more to Gateway. 

[B35 via Church]

59 minutes ago, Just New York said:

You help the B20 ridership plus streamline Pennsylvania ave. Starrett City definitely has a good chuck of the ridership of the B83 so you actually save both routes time. Anybody that live Between the Juction and New Lots Av still can use either routes. Linden, Blvd, Fairfield  residents will all use the B20 now instead of the B83 which will be much faster now that will help attract people to use it more to Gateway. 

Oh, that much I get - I'm not taking issue with a B83 clear along Penn, or having the B20 serve Van Siclen....

The point I was making, is that drawing up a circuitous B84 of sorts would almost be as useless as the real B84...

5 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

The only concern that I have with that is the B14 travels a good chunk of Brownsville and East New York- Sutter Avenue. I don't know if those riders are looking for a continuous loop around Spring Creek into the mall and Valhalla Avenue. Thus it is better for the 84 to utilize the service better.

Spring Creek patrons primarily use the B13 to get to the & the , and the B15 to get to the .... They don't take B14's to the in any significant numbers because they're taking A's/C's/J's to B'way Junction & xferring to the from there - and for damn sure they're not riding (basically) the full route to Utica for the .... I mean, all this talk about running the B14 to that little community in question down there is not worth it - Even if it means revoking it from the postal facility... The B14 dies at the northern end of the Cypress houses for a reason & it's not because of lack of coverage in Spring Creek..... Buses would be much better off turning up from Sutter to, at minimum, directly serve Euclid av subway....  

I'd rather do away with the B84 & redistribute the resources necessary to operate it elsewhere; lost cause AFAIC... However, if the onus is to not eliminate it, I happen to agree with you... If there's a need to have buses serve that small community adjacent the eastern end of the postal facility, it should be done with the B84 & not the B14.

[JeremiahC99]

22 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Buses would be much better off turning up from Sutter to, at minimum, directly serve Euclid av subway....  

 

This was another BrooklynBus proposal from 2004. This would’ve been done in conjunction with the Spring Creek extension. In my plan,  buses would use Euclid Avenue and Crescent Street going to Crown Heights from Spring Creek. It would then run via Pitkin Avenue to Logan/Fountain Avenues and return to Sutter Avenue to resume the normal route. This reroute would add 5 minutes for those going to destinations west of Fountain Avenue, but would provide those east of Crescent Street and in eastern Spring Creek with a new subway line to access. 

[Just New York]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Oh, that much I get - I'm not taking issue with a B83 clear along Penn, or having the B20 serve Van Siclen....

The point I was making, is that drawing up a circuitous B84 of sorts would almost be as useless as the real B84...

Spring Creek patrons primarily use the B13 to get to the & the , and the B15 to get to the .... They don't take B14's to the in any significant numbers because they're taking A's/C's/J's to B'way Junction & xferring to the from there - and for damn sure they're not riding (basically) the full route to Utica for the .... I mean, all this talk about running the B14 to that little community in question down there is not worth it - Even if it means revoking it from the postal facility... The B14 dies at the northern end of the Cypress houses for a reason & it's not because of lack of coverage in Spring Creek..... Buses would be much better off turning up from Sutter to, at minimum, directly serve Euclid av subway....  

I'd rather do away with the B84 & redistribute the resources necessary to operate it elsewhere; lost cause AFAIC... However, if the onus is to not eliminate it, I happen to agree with you... If there's a need to have buses serve that small community adjacent the eastern end of the postal facility, it should be done with the B84 & not the B14.

That for the elderly you have the western Beef on new lots plus other shops. Pennsylvania does not need 3 buses to the Juction you also help the No non ADA  stations. A lot of people would use the B84 to Navigate that side of ENY as your connecting major shopping points.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Just New York