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Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas


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4 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Like I said before, I thought there would be high ridership on some routes. That’s where I got my routes to be articulated. With the higher capacity buses running with the same headway’s as before, there would be more room. The B1 during the school year would be a nice example, since that route is crowded to a point that between Manhattan Beach and the Brighton Beach station, the buses sometimes doesn’t make any stops. 

 

Also, this should happen 2 years after they implement the network redesign, as I predict that the listed routes will gain ridership fast due to redesigned routes.

 

And I do admit that my list of articulated is not perfect. Like I said, I picked the routes for ridership and important connections, like nearest subway lines.

Dude, what are you even saying with this? Stop trying to save face with nonsense, there's no need to guess which routes have high ridership enough to warrant artics.....

The part about predicting which current routes would see increases (after a network redesign that hasn't happened yet) enough to warrant artics, is even sillier.....

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

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Could a LTD bus from Midwood to JFK be feasible? From last year I remember making a proposal for a route that would originate at the Kings Highway (B)(Q) station via Kings Highway, Foster Avenue, and Linden Boulevard, then via the B15 route to JFK. This time I would reroute my proposal via Rockaway Avenue and New Lots Avenue to serve the (3) train. Thoughts?

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36 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Not again with these same tired, cockamamie schemes to have some long-winded local bus service to JFK..... We've been through this on here an umpteen amount of times already.... Jesus christ.....

I didn't want to chime in on this. However, the accuracy of this post right now.. The last thing we need is a long winded bus route to JFK.

The B15 is good enough right now. However, that needs improvement. 

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Just now, Future ENY OP said:

I didn't want to chime in on this. However, the accuracy of this post right now.. The last thing we need is a long winded bus route to JFK.

The B15 is good enough right now. However, that needs improvement. 

What needs to happen is a split of the B15. Should be somewhere around the Sutter Av (3) .

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  • 4 weeks later...

Since there was a article on the MTA about a (L) train replacement bus to Canarsie and someone feared the merger of the B17 and B42, I would like to propose some changes in the Canarsie area. Most of these ideas are ideas from @BrooklynBus whose ideas for improving the bus system I consider a piece of art. Credits to him for these ideas.

 

To better serve Seaview Village this proposal from the site http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/id10.html would be slightly modified:

The original Proposal S involves the B42 having a branch leaving Seaview Avenue at Rockaway Pkwy and serving Seaview Avenue to East 108th Street during the rush hours. During all other times, northbound service would leave Seaview Avenue to East 108th Street, turn around there, ands operate west back on Sesaview avenut to Rockaway Pkwy and continue to Rockaway Pkwy (L) station. 

The modified proposal would retain all of the features the original had. The rush-hour branch would be designated the B42A, to signify that it is a branch of the B42. However, during non-rush hours, service in both directions would serve Seaview Avenue:

  • Northbound service would leave Rockaway Pkwy at Seaview Avenue, run non-stop on Seaview Avenue to East 108th Street, turn around, and operate west on Seaview Avenue make all stops on the north side of the street to Rockaway Pkwy and continue to Rockaway Pkwy to the Rockaway Pkwy (L) station.
  • Southbound service would leave Rockaway Pkwy at Seaview Avenue, make all stops on the south side of the street to East 108th Street, turn around, and operate non-stop back to Rockaway Pkwy to continue its route to the Canarsie Pier, which should get a new bus bulb either near the shoulders of the circle or inside the parking lot.

The main B17 branch would have its headways adjusted at both branches so that each service would run every 8 minutes during the weekdays and every 10 minutes during the weekends, for a combined frequency of every 4-5 minutes every day between Avenue L and Flatlands Avenue and north of Glenwood Road. Night service would operate every 20 or 30 minutes (to make connections to the subway easier and helpful) on each branch for a combined night frequency of every 10 or 15 minutes.

Service on the Avenue L branch would be complemented by modified and enhanced B6 service make stops between East 80th Street and Remsen Avenue.

 

There would be modifications to Proposal A and L. The original proposals for the area involved the B6 running via Glenwood Road east of Flatbush Avenue to Ralph Avenue, then to East 80th Street, where it would turn south to reach Avenue L and run on Avenue L and East 105th Street to Seaview Avenue and East 108th Street. The proposed B19 bus route would replace the B6 on Avenue H and Flatlands Avenue and the B60 would be extended to New Lots Avenue.

These proposals would be modified. The B6, instead of using Glenwood Road east of Flatbush Avenue, would instead use Flatbush Avenue (directly serving the Flatbush Avenue (2)(5) station), and Avenue H directly to Flatbush Avenue, and a proposed B19 from the Junction, which would be called the B81, would supplement it east of Albany Avenue. In addition, the B6 would have a Select Bus Service route making stop at select stops as follows:

  • Cropsey Avenue and Bay 37th St
  • Bay Pkwy and Bath Avenue
  • Bay Pkwy and 86th Street
  • Bay Pkwy and 78th Street
  • Bay Pkwy and 65th Street
  • Bay Pkwy and 60th Street
  • Bay Pkwy and McDonald Avenue
  • Avenue J and Coney Island Avenue
  • Avenue J and East 16th Street
  • Avenue J and Ocean Avenue
  • Bedford Avenue and Campus Rd
  • Flatbush Avenue and Nostrand Avenue
  • Avenue H and Albany Avenue
  • Avenue H and Utica Avenue
  • Flatlands Avenue and Ralph Avenue
  • East 80th Street and Flatlands Avenue
  • East 80th Street and Avenue L
  • Avenue L and Remsen Avenue*
  • Avenue L and Rockaway Pkwy*
  • Avenue L and Eats 105th Street*
  • Seaview Avenue and East 108th Street*

Any stop marked with at * means that the stop will have one MetroCard Machine and one Coin Machine, like the Q44 SBS stops in the Bronx.

The B6 local and SBS would operate every 5 minutes during the weekdays, and every 10 minutes during the weekends. During the late nights, service would operate every 20 or 30 minutes, while there would be no SBS service. The B81, which would go to JFK Airport, would operate every 15 minutes every day and every 20 or 30 minutes during the night. The B103 would be truncated to Flatbush Avenue/Brooklyn College since it would be too redundant with the B6 SBS. This will turn Avenue H into a high-frequency corridor running through a bus-dependent portion of Brooklyn and provide better service then what's provided today. A potential evaluation of B6 service to Coney Island could be under consideration for even better service. All other aspects of Proposal L would be unchanged.

Again, I ask you to go on the site http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/id10.html and look at all of the proposals from there to see how they would be better than the current service we have now.

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18 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The proposed B19 bus route would replace the B6 on Avenue H and Flatlands Avenue and the B60 would be extended to New Lots Avenue.

the b60 already has major issues pulling out from grand avenue to willy-b or Canarsie... and has problems maintaining headway just attempting to wiggle down the road from willy-b to Canarsie. i seriously doubt that any extension of the B60 will benefit anyone on rockaway Avenue or Wilson for that matter. i understand that there isn't that much ridership on cozine from breukelen projects (williams avenue) to van siclen (it's basically a daytona 500 strip) but i see no benefit to this for the 60, except for grand avenue operators, adding to their paddles run time

Edited by EastFlatbushLarry
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On 9/13/2018 at 9:59 AM, JeremiahC99 said:

The modified proposal would retain all of the features the original had. The rush-hour branch would be designated the B42A, to signify that it is a branch of the B42. However, during non-rush hours, service in both directions would serve Seaview Avenue:

  • Northbound service would leave Rockaway Pkwy at Seaview Avenue, run non-stop on Seaview Avenue to East 108th Street, turn around, and operate west on Seaview Avenue make all stops on the north side of the street to Rockaway Pkwy and continue to Rockaway Pkwy to the Rockaway Pkwy (L) station.
  • Southbound service would leave Rockaway Pkwy at Seaview Avenue, make all stops on the south side of the street to East 108th Street, turn around, and operate non-stop back to Rockaway Pkwy to continue its route to the Canarsie Pier, which should get a new bus bulb either near the shoulders of the circle or inside the parking lot.

At that point, you might as well just have all B42 buses end at East 108th Street. There's no point in all of that backtracking just to serve the Canarsie Pier which is a few blocks south of Seaview anyway.

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

At that point, you might as well just have all B42 buses end at East 108th Street. There's no point in all of that backtracking just to serve the Canarsie Pier which is a few blocks south of Seaview anyway.

That proposal was based on the premise from the original 2004 proposal that running a branch during off peak hours would add 10 minutes for B42 customers coming from both the Pier (which would see service slightly reduced) and East 108th Street. The off-peak B42 service via Seaview Avenue would only add 5 minutes for those going to/from the pier. The backtracking was intended to efficiently serve both Seaview Village and the NYCHA houses at the pier. Again, I ask the you read the proposals from the BrooklynBus site. http://brooklynbus.tripod.com/id23.html

The link above takes you to the B42 proposal for Canarsie.

Edited by JeremiahC99
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11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

At that point, you might as well just have all B42 buses end at East 108th Street. There's no point in all of that backtracking just to serve the Canarsie Pier which is a few blocks south of Seaview anyway.

I wouldn't bother running the B42 over to Seaview Estates (current B17 terminal) at any rate.... Running the B42 over there would still leave most of Seaview Village with a walk to 108th anyway... If you live closer to Seaview av, great, but if you live further away from Seaview, then why commence panning south for a longer B42 ride (from somewhere along Seaview) when they're the same people already panning westward to Rockaway Pkwy. for the same B42 anyway? I'd leave all B42 service ending at the Bayview houses, at Schenck (Canarsie Pier is more or less a convenient turnaround)....

Save for erratic service (as with a lot of routes nowadays), one of the main points of contention folks have had with the B17 is the backtrack (speaking of backtracking) [for coverage reasons] NB buses take to get to Utica subway.... Most still stay on the bus, but you do have some that get off at Utica & xfer over for a NB B46...

10 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The backtracking was intended to efficiently serve both Seaview Village and the NYCHA houses at the pier...

The irony.

Edited by B35 via Church
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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Save for erratic service (as with a lot of routes nowadays), one of the main points of contention folks have had with the B17 is the backtrack (speaking of backtracking) [for coverage reasons] NB buses take to get to Utica subway.... Most still stay on the bus, but you do have some that get off at Utica & xfer over for a NB B46...

I thought the reason for the backtrack was because it was a more convenient turnaround (as opposed to say, going up Utica dropping off people and then making a left on Eastern Parkway to come back around (which is what that L5 shuttle will presumably do, since it's nonstop after Remsen/Flatlands)

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51 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I thought the reason for the backtrack was because it was a more convenient turnaround (as opposed to say, going up Utica dropping off people and then making a left on Eastern Parkway to come back around (which is what that L5 shuttle will presumably do, since it's nonstop after Remsen/Flatlands)

Weird, since I though the backtracking via East NY Av and Troy Avenue was done to avoid the morning traffic along Utica Avenue between Empire Blvd and Eastern Pkwy between 7:00 A.M. and 8:00 A.M. (which I have personally seen riding the B46 going NB in the morning).

 

They should convert the street from two-way to one way Northbound from Empire Blvd to at least Fulton Street to make NB traffic on Utica Avenue faster. Southbound B17 and B46 SBS would use Schenectady Avenue instead and access would not be lost since there is an entrance to the Utica Avenue station at Schenectady Avenue. 

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34 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Weird, since I though the backtracking via East NY Av and Troy Avenue was done to avoid the morning traffic along Utica Avenue between Empire Blvd and Eastern Pkwy between 7:00 A.M. and 8:00 A.M. (which I have personally seen riding the B46 going NB in the morning).

 

They should convert the street from two-way to one way Northbound from Empire Blvd to at least Fulton Street to make NB traffic on Utica Avenue faster. Southbound B17 and B46 SBS would use Schenectady Avenue instead and access would not be lost since there is an entrance to the Utica Avenue station at Schenectady Avenue. 

No.  you lose direct B46 bus service via Utica. 

Therefore no changes on Utica 

Thanks 🙏🏾 Management. 

#carryon 

Edited by Future ENY OP
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16 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

No.  you lose direct B46 bus service via Utica. 

Therefore no changes on Utica 

Thanks 🙏🏾 Management. 

#carryon 

No one is losing direct service. Rather, northbound service would be faster if the street was wider to facilitate a similar setup to Rogers Avenue (where the Northound B44 SBS runs). Also, in concerns to loss of direct service, buses coming from Broadway would simply turn off Broadway at Stuyvesant Avenue, which becomes Schenectady Avenue at Fulton Street. B46 SBS would be extended to Myrtle Avenue-Broadway, turning around via Myrtle Avenue, Lewis Avenue, and Stockton St, avoiding the slow section of Broadway at Flushing Avenue, which slowed travel there before (I've also ridden the B46 through there once pre-SBS). 

 

Also, do you even know that there are other streets where buses ride through one-way streets through Crown Heights, such as Franklin/Classon Avenues (B48), Nostrand/Rogers/ NY Avenues(B44, B44 SBS, B49), and Brooklyn/Kingston Avenues (B43). The B44 SBS was rerouted onto Rogers Avenue, which is one-way NB similar to my plans for Utica Avenue north of Empire, and it became faster for everyone ther, so why do you think that a similar plan won't work?

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I thought the reason for the backtrack was because it was a more convenient turnaround (as opposed to say, going up Utica dropping off people and then making a left on Eastern Parkway to come back around (which is what that L5 shuttle will presumably do, since it's nonstop after Remsen/Flatlands)

Between bustalk, subchat, and RD back in the day, I remember several people claiming that the B17 shot across ENY (av) & up Troy (instead of turning off to fill that service gap b/w the (then) B47 & the B46....

15 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

No one is losing direct service. Rather, northbound service would be faster if the street was wider to facilitate a similar setup to Rogers Avenue (where the Northound B44 SBS runs). Also, in concerns to loss of direct service, buses coming from Broadway would simply turn off Broadway at Stuyvesant Avenue, which becomes Schenectady Avenue at Fulton Street. B46 SBS would be extended to Myrtle Avenue-Broadway, turning around via Myrtle Avenue, Lewis Avenue, and Stockton St, avoiding the slow section of Broadway at Flushing Avenue, which slowed travel there before (I've also ridden the B46 through there once pre-SBS). 

 

Also, do you even know that there are other streets where buses ride through one-way streets through Crown Heights, such as Franklin/Classon Avenues (B48), Nostrand/Rogers/ NY Avenues(B44, B44 SBS, B49), and Brooklyn/Kingston Avenues (B43). The B44 SBS was rerouted onto Rogers Avenue, which is one-way NB similar to my plans for Utica Avenue north of Empire, and it became faster for everyone ther, so why do you think that a similar plan won't work?

The B44 SBS was routed onto Rogers to make the route from end to end more DIRECT....

Turning Utica av into a 1-way street NB to run the SB buses on Schenectady would make the B46/SBS more INDIRECT - Regardless of the fact that buses would serve Utica av subway at the Schenectady entrance....

Using the argument that there are other routes that run on 1-way streets through Crown Heights is absolutely & completely irrelevant; it does squat to support the foolish re-routing of the B46 onto Schenectady.... People have been complaining about the lack of local bus service on the B46, and you want to make people's commutes that much more worse by prolonging them, heading in that direction....

Go to bed.

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Between bustalk, subchat, and RD back in the day, I remember several people claiming that the B17 shot across ENY (av) & up Troy (instead of turning off to fill that service gap b/w the (then) B47 & the B46....

The B44 SBS was routed onto Rogers to make the route from end to end more DIRECT....

Turning Utica av into a 1-way street NB to run the SB buses on Schenectady would make the B46/SBS more INDIRECT - Regardless of the fact that buses would serve Utica av subway at the Schenectady entrance....

Using the argument that there are other routes that run on 1-way streets through Crown Heights is absolutely & completely irrelevant; it does squat to support the foolish re-routing of the B46 onto Schenectady.... People have been complaining about the lack of local bus service on the B46, and you want to make people's commutes that much more worse by prolonging them, heading in that direction....

Go to bed.

HAHAHA. Making utica ave into a one-way street. Wallyhorse would be jealous  :D

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Between bustalk, subchat, and RD back in the day, I remember several people claiming that the B17 shot across ENY (av) & up Troy (instead of turning off to fill that service gap b/w the (then) B47 & the B46....

The B44 SBS was routed onto Rogers to make the route from end to end more DIRECT....

Turning Utica av into a 1-way street NB to run the SB buses on Schenectady would make the B46/SBS more INDIRECT - Regardless of the fact that buses would serve Utica av subway at the Schenectady entrance....

Using the argument that there are other routes that run on 1-way streets through Crown Heights is absolutely & completely irrelevant; it does squat to support the foolish re-routing of the B46 onto Schenectady.... People have been complaining about the lack of local bus service on the B46, and you want to make people's commutes that much more worse by prolonging them, heading in that direction....

Go to bed.

 

25 minutes ago, Yankees4life said:

HAHAHA. Making utica ave into a one-way street. Wallyhorse would be jealous  :D

So you all want to have B46 local and SBS sitting in traffic between Empire Blvd and Fulton Street every day, because you can ask the NYPD to start enforcing those curbside bus lanes, but they probably won’t do it. I’ve seen the traffic on the B46 SBS between Empire Blvd and Fulton Street and there have been instances where northbound traffic going bumper to bumper starting at Carrol Street all the way to Lincoln Place (around there) due to the poorly enforced bus lanes.

Edited by JeremiahC99
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1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

 

So you all want to have B46 local and SBS sitting in traffic between Empire Blvd and Fulton Street every day, because you can ask the NYPD to start enforcing those curbside bus lanes, but they probably won’t do it. I’ve seen the traffic on the B46 SBS between Empire Blvd and Fulton Street and there have been instances where northbound traffic going bumper to bumper starting at Carrol Street all the way to Lincoln Place (around there) due to the poorly enforced bus lanes.

Listen, traffic on Utica Avenue will always be on a standstill. Whatever the issue is. What you don't need is people backtracking to Schenectady for bus service. Utica Avenue is DIRECT service. I said this earlier to you and now @B35 via Church is saying the same.

Right now 46 service is really bad on the local. You have SBS buses coming every 3-5 mins. Problem right now is Brooklyn Division is short of buses. This week alone Ulmer Park had to borrow buses and we have to be patient with the new deliveries. Every week there's been a change to the XD40 and XN60 order. To be honest with you if I was taking the B46 I'd rather the Utica traffic between Empire and Fulton. Traffic can tend to be slow at times. However, buses are moving.

If you want enforcement on bus lines. I can direct you over to Fulton Street between Flatbush and Grand Avenue. 25/26/38/52 buses lanes are being enforced by NYPD traffic and Undercover cars from the 88th Pct especially from 2PM-8PM.

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32 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

If you want enforcement on bus lines. I can direct you over to Fulton Street between Flatbush and Grand Avenue. 25/26/38/52 buses lanes are being enforced by NYPD traffic and Undercover cars from the 88th Pct especially from 2PM-8PM.

Well then, if that works, then maybe it should be used on the Utica Avenue corridor before anything else on the line is done.

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1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Listen, traffic on Utica Avenue will always be on a standstill. Whatever the issue is. What you don't need is people backtracking to Schenectady for bus service. Utica Avenue is DIRECT service. I said this earlier to you and now @B35 via Church is saying the same.

Right now 46 service is really bad on the local. You have SBS buses coming every 3-5 mins. Problem right now is Brooklyn Division is short of buses. This week alone Ulmer Park had to borrow buses and we have to be patient with the new deliveries. Every week there's been a change to the XD40 and XN60 order. To be honest with you if I was taking the B46 I'd rather the Utica traffic between Empire and Fulton. Traffic can tend to be slow at times. However, buses are moving.

If you want enforcement on bus lines. I can direct you over to Fulton Street between Flatbush and Grand Avenue. 25/26/38/52 buses lanes are being enforced by NYPD traffic and Undercover cars from the 88th Pct especially from 2PM-8PM.

When bus lanes aren't quite doing the job - Oh, let's turn this street 1-way...

....as if you don't have a crap ton of motorists already trying to find "shortcuts" to getting around, since traffic is what it is in this city in general.... What nobody ever tells you is that said "shortcuts" can have you taking longer to get to your destination (especially around that part of Crown Heights, forget about it) as there are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of other motorists that have thought up & are engaging in the same shit....

Last thing we need to be doing is making 2-way streets 1-way; regardless of for how short or long a stretch.....

3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So you all want to have B46 local and SBS sitting in traffic between Empire Blvd and Fulton Street every day, because you can ask the NYPD to start enforcing those curbside bus lanes, but they probably won’t do it. I’ve seen the traffic on the B46 SBS between Empire Blvd and Fulton Street and there have been instances where northbound traffic going bumper to bumper starting at Carrol Street all the way to Lincoln Place (around there) due to the poorly enforced bus lanes.

Nobody's advocating for buses sitting in traffic & said traffic does not remotely warrant the permanent, 24/7, altering of the traffic pattern along Utica Av....

Schnauze.... Cállate..... Shut up with this already.

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9 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

They should convert the street from two-way to one way Northbound from Empire Blvd to at least Fulton Street to make NB traffic on Utica Avenue faster. Southbound B17 and B46 SBS would use Schenectady Avenue instead and access would not be lost since there is an entrance to the Utica Avenue station at Schenectady Avenue. 

Adding more lanes to Utica doesn't make a difference in my opinion, it'll only take a few months or so for car demand to meet back up over the supply. And next thing you know, traffic again just like before. More lanes always creates more traffic, that's not how you solve this type of issue.

Edited by NoHacksJustKhaks
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1 hour ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Adding more lanes to Utica doesn't make a difference in my opinion, it'll only take a few months or so for car demand to meet back up over the supply. And next thing you know, traffic again just like before. More lanes always creates more traffic, that's not how you solve this type of issue.

Best way to solve this would to deinterline Rogers and then extend the (5) to reduce auto + bus dependency, but we know that is not going to happen with Andy C in power... we'll just get more space for his antique cars...

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