Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[darrianQ60]

@Future ENY OP u said the b84 dont need to go to brooklyn college because you have the b6 and b103 but niether of those bus go to gateway mall if you live in east  flatbush you have to pay 2fares just to go there thats 3 bus instead of just 2 but i do agree with you when you say the bus routes in east new york and cypress hills end at some odd places.

@Q43LTD how is the b14 going to casino far it is literally 7 block after crossbay blvd im not sending the b14 to the rockaway blvd ozone park A train station i am making the b14 continue on pitkin crossing over crossbay blvd  and run  with the Q11 on pitkin ave and go to the  aqueduct racetrack A train  station  and casino that is actually less time than going to rockaway blvd ozone park station.

@Yankees4life sendin the b84 to broadway junction is pointless there is the b83 already that  goes there you are goin to  have 2 buses that begin at the same place and end at the same place and if you are  planing on putting the b84 to run on  pennsylvania ave that is going to be 3 buses going the same place the b20 and b84 and b83. Sendin it to brooklyn college would at least serve underserved street  that no bus runs on like foster ave after kingshwy and ave D after remsen ave and east flatbush would not have a 2 fare zone to go to gateway.

@B35 via Church i agree with you on having the b20 go to lefferts blvd air train station because the b20 end point is  no where significant and it can also do the stops that the b15 doesnt do like crossbay blvd and A train station on the north conduit ave 

 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I’ll take that into account, but thanks for bring up the school tripper. I forgot to take that into account when making my map. And speaking of that, do you know of any schools in Brooklyn that COULD use some school trippers?

I would suspect that any school that needs them already has them. Did you know that the pre-1978 B36 was retained as a school tripper for two trips a day from Surf and Neptune Avenue to the Bay Academy at Neptune (Emmmons) and E 14 Street? In 2004, I had an argument with the head of service Planning who insisted it was eliminated. It still runs today! 

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

I would suspect that any school that needs them already has them. Did you know that the pre-1978 B36 was retained as a school tripper for two trips a day from Surf and Neptune Avenue to the Bay Academy at Neptune (Emmmons) and E 14 Street? In 2004, I had an argument with the head of service Planning who insisted it was eliminated. It still runs today! 

Why would they eliminate that school tripper?

[BrooklynBus]

11 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Why would they eliminate that school tripper?

Because the route was changed to Avenue Z so the bus now goes way off route to serve the school. 

[JeremiahC99]

13 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Because the route was changed to Avenue Z so the bus now goes way off route to serve the school. 

And they did not want to have the route go too far from it’s regular route? Do they care about the students?

[BrooklynBus]

51 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

And they did not want to have the route go too far from it’s regular route? Do they care about the students?

I don't understand your question. They kept what was needed so why would you ask if they care about the students? 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don't understand your question. They kept what was needed so why would you ask if they care about the students? 

There's a lot to not understand around here. lol

[JeremiahC99]

10 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don't understand your question. They kept what was needed so why would you ask if they care about the students? 

My mistake. I read that post and it mentioned the part that you had an argument with the Service Planning department who insisted it was eliminated. I misunderstood that part.

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I would suspect that any school that needs them already has them. Did you know that the pre-1978 B36 was retained as a school tripper for two trips a day from Surf and Neptune Avenue to the Bay Academy at Neptune (Emmmons) and E 14 Street? In 2004, I had an argument with the head of service Planning who insisted it was eliminated. It still runs today! 

The bold part was the part that I misinterpreted.

[Future ENY OP]

5 hours ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Future ENY OP u said the b84 dont need to go to brooklyn college because you have the b6 and b103 but niether of those bus go to gateway mall if you live in east  flatbush you have to pay 2fares just to go there thats 3 bus instead of just 2 but i do agree with you when you say the bus routes in east new york and cypress hills end at some odd places.

 

First off: I'm not understanding the grammar situation so I'm a bit lost.

Second: Once a upon of time  I made a suggestion to have the 84 terminate in Canarsie. Through various conversations with a few members on the board it didn't make sense for the 84 head to Canarsie when you have the B6 and B82 both doing the job of handling the Canarsie riders. It didn't make sense for the current ridership that is in Spring Creek and East New York, Starrett City to head into Canarsie for the train.

Third: What I'm saying to you is this.. There is no market for the B84 to head into East Flatbush or even let alone Brooklyn College. I'm not trying to debate or shutdown your idea. However, due to current Brooklyn transit grid and the marketing for this route it is HIGHLY IMPOSSIBLE to have a Spring Creek route operate into Brooklyn College. Now, I ask you this. How do you market a route that is intended for travel within Spring Creek and East New York to Flatbush.. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself a bit)

[darrianQ60]

@Future ENY OP  

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

First off: I'm not understanding the grammar situation so I'm a bit lost.

Second: Once a upon of time  I made a suggestion to have the 84 terminate in Canarsie. Through various conversations with a few members on the board it didn't make sense for the 84 head to Canarsie when you have the B6 and B82 both doing the job of handling the Canarsie riders. It didn't make sense for the current ridership that is in Spring Creek and East New York, Starrett City to head into Canarsie for the train.

Third: What I'm saying to you is this.. There is no market for the B84 to head into East Flatbush or even let alone Brooklyn College. I'm not trying to debate or shutdown your idea. However, due to current Brooklyn transit grid and the marketing for this route it is HIGHLY IMPOSSIBLE to have a Spring Creek route operate into Brooklyn College. Now, I ask you this. How do you market a route that is intended for travel within Spring Creek and East New York to Flatbush.. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself a bit)

Very easy the mta makes tons and tons and tons of money just like how they made the b84 route and  other routes they can do the same  and the b84 is  not a succesful route they can extend it and see if its a succes and if its not they can cut it back or get rid of the route. 

    The fact remain that theres no bus in gateway mall that carrys you west in brooklyn. All the current routes in gateway mall carry you north. So  areas like eastflatbush, georgetown, remsen village ,carnsie, marine park, and even if you live by kings plaza all have to pay two fares to go to  gateway and its not even far. it doesnt  matter if theres no demand for this route  because they were not a demand for alot of bus route but they made them anyways.  there is no proper connection between western brooklyn and gateway mall all those buses in gateway  go north.  people in those areas may want to go to gateway mall but because of the 2 fares zone they just might say forget it and go to kings plaza instead.

And you said the b82 and b6 handle carnsie well honestly it doesnt cover much at all for example if i live at Ave  N and E 93 st  i gotta pay  two fares the b82 and b6 is no where near by 

 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

7 minutes ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Future ENY OP  

Very easy the mta makes tons and tons and tons of money 

 

Where???

[Future ENY OP]

1 minute ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Future ENY OP  

Very easy the mta makes tons and tons and tons of money just like how they made the b84 route and  other routes they can do the same  and the b84 is  not a succesful route they can extend it and see if its a succes and if its not they can cut it back or get rid of the route. 

    The fact remain that theres no bus in gateway mall that carrys you west in brooklyn. All the current routes in gateway mall carry you north. So  areas like eastflatbush, georgetown, remsen village ,carnsie, marine park, and even if you live by kings plaza all have to pay two fares to go to  gateway and its not even far. it doesnt  matter if theres no demand for this route  because they were not a demand for alot of bus route but they made them anyways.  there is no proper connection between western brooklyn and gateway mall all those buses in gateway  go north.  people in those areas may want to go to gateway mall but because of the 2 fares zone they just might say forget it and go to kings plaza instead.

And you said the b82 and b6 handle carnsie well honestly it doesnt cover much at all for example if i live at Ave  N and E 93 st  i gotta pay  two fares the b82 and b6 is no where near by 

 

You have the B42 and B103 for those examples, plus those lines provide transfers to the B6 and B82 respectively and those are not 2 fare zones.

I may be 6 years removed from taking public transportation. However, when it comes to Brooklyn bus service. I have a clear knowledge that most lines provide connection to other lines to get into Gateway Mall. Gateway is not really the most attractive mall. Although it has good amenities. However, it's not the type of mall I would want to emphasize any type of bus transportation unless it's for the service area, and in this case is Spring Creek // East New York, and perhaps Ozone Park. 

To your other point: Try saying that to the Community Board in East New York which wanted the B84 service in the first place. As I told you previously this line was specifically done for the area since they are developing that portion of East New York and Spring Creek. Right now the is not in the business of creating new bus lines. Think of this.

Again, YOU DON'T NEED THE B84 GOING WESTBOUND TO FLATBUSH....

[B35 via Church]

3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

What I'm saying to you is this.. There is no market for the B84 to head into East Flatbush or even let alone Brooklyn College. I'm not trying to debate or shutdown your idea. However, due to current Brooklyn transit grid and the marketing for this route it is HIGHLY IMPOSSIBLE to have a Spring Creek route operate into Brooklyn College. Now, I ask you this. How do you market a route that is intended for travel within Spring Creek and East New York to Flatbush.. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself a bit)

This is the very reason I've been ignoring said proposal up until this point; he's making it all about getting to Gateway.... The onus should be one of, what those folks down around Spring Creek want... They're not patronizing the thing (for whatever their reasons) & I don't really see that changing as time progresses....

Just branch the B83 with parts of the B84 & be done with it.... One branch running clear along Penn to the Belt & the other branch running via Van Siclen, Cozine, etc. to do what the B84 generally does (I say generally for a reason - which is another thing; why does it have to take Flatlands all the way to Fountain).... I believe that to be part of the problem also.... As well as not serving Gateway II still....

==============================

 

edit: Google maps is acting stupid right now, so I'll do it like this:

From Broadway Junction...

B83 via Penn: Van Sinderen > Fulton > Jamaica > Penn > Belt Pkwy > Erskine > Gateway Dr., to Gateway Terminal (Gateway II)

B83 via Van Siclen: Van Sinderen > Fulton > Jamaica > Penn > New Lots > Van Siclen > Cozine > Jerome > Flatlands > Elton > Vandalia > Erskine > Gateway Dr., to Gateway Terminal (Gateway II)

Edited October 30, 2018 by B35 via Church

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

This is the very reason I've been ignoring said proposal up until this point; he's making it all about getting to Gateway.... The onus should be one of, what those folks down around Spring Creek want... They're not patronizing the thing (for whatever their reasons) & I don't really see that changing as time progresses....

Just branch the B83 with parts of the B84 & be done with it.... One branch running clear along Penn to the Belt & the other branch running via Van Siclen, Cozine, etc. to do what the B84 generally does (I say generally for a reason - which is another thing; why does it have to take Flatlands all the way to Fountain).... I believe that to be part of the problem also.... As well as not serving Gateway II still....

I'm going to have to ignore this also. Spring Creek patrons are going to learn that everything doesn't go their way.

Just consider that there even lucky enough to have the B84. This agency doesn't really consider these ideas very likely.

Also, I can't debate with someone who doesn't have the complexity on how the current Brooklyn Transit grid works. 

 

[Yankees4life]

9 hours ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Future ENY OP u said the b84 dont need to go to brooklyn college because you have the b6 and b103 but niether of those bus go to gateway mall if you live in east  flatbush you have to pay 2fares just to go there thats 3 bus instead of just 2 but i do agree with you when you say the bus routes in east new york and cypress hills end at some odd places.

@Q43LTD how is the b14 going to casino far it is literally 7 block after crossbay blvd im not sending the b14 to the rockaway blvd ozone park A train station i am making the b14 continue on pitkin crossing over crossbay blvd  and run  with the Q11 on pitkin ave and go to the  aqueduct racetrack A train  station  and casino that is actually less time than going to rockaway blvd ozone park station.

@Yankees4life sendin the b84 to broadway junction is pointless there is the b83 already that  goes there you are goin to  have 2 buses that begin at the same place and end at the same place and if you are  planing on putting the b84 to run on  pennsylvania ave that is going to be 3 buses going the same place the b20 and b84 and b83. Sendin it to brooklyn college would at least serve underserved street  that no bus runs on like foster ave after kingshwy and ave D after remsen ave and east flatbush would not have a 2 fare zone to go to gateway.

@B35 via Church i agree with you on having the b20 go to lefferts blvd air train station because the b20 end point is  no where significant and it can also do the stops that the b15 doesnt do like crossbay blvd and A train station on the north conduit ave 

 

Don't have to tell you again. AVE H is full along with ALL of the Junction. We have too many routes ending there. B11, Q35, B103 end there already. That part of junction is filled with buses deadheading/ending-beginning routes.

 

No need for the B84 to go all the way there. The current B84 for the B6 will take you to Junction with ease.

 

 

[Q43LTD]

10 hours ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Future ENY OP u said the b84 dont need to go to brooklyn college because you have the b6 and b103 but niether of those bus go to gateway mall if you live in east  flatbush you have to pay 2fares just to go there thats 3 bus instead of just 2 but i do agree with you when you say the bus routes in east new york and cypress hills end at some odd places.

@Q43LTD how is the B14 going to casino far it is literally 7 blocks after cross bay blvd I'm not sending the B14 to the Rockaway blvd ozone park A train station I am making the B14 continue on Pitkin crossing over Cross Bay Blvd  and run with the Q11 on Pitkin Ave and go to the Aqueduct Racetrack A train  station  and casino that is actually less time than going to rockaway blvd ozone park station.

@Yankees4life sendin the b84 to broadway junction is pointless there is the b83 already that  goes there you are goin to  have 2 buses that begin at the same place and end at the same place and if you are  planing on putting the b84 to run on  pennsylvania ave that is going to be 3 buses going the same place the b20 and b84 and b83. Sendin it to brooklyn college would at least serve underserved street  that no bus runs on like foster ave after kingshwy and ave D after remsen ave and east flatbush would not have a 2 fare zone to go to gateway.

@B35 via Church i agree with you on having the b20 go to lefferts blvd air train station because the b20 end point is  no where significant and it can also do the stops that the b15 doesnt do like crossbay blvd and A train station on the north conduit ave 

 

7 blocks?! Did you look at the same map that I looked at?

2 hours ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Future ENY OP  

Very easy the makes tons and tons and tons of money just like how they made the B84 route and  other routes they can do the same and the B84 is not a successful route they can extend it and see if its a success and if its not they can cut it back or get rid of the route. 

    The fact remain that there's no bus in gateway mall that carries you west in brooklyn. All the current routes in gateway mall carry you north. So  areas like East Flatbush, Georgetown, Remsen Village, Canarsie, Marine Park, and even if you live by kings plaza all have to pay two fares to go to  gateway and its not even far. it doesn't matter if there's no demand for this route because they were not a demand for alot of bus route but they made them anyways.  there is no proper connection between western Brooklyn and Gateway Mall all those buses in gateway go north.  people in those areas may want to go to gateway mall but because of the 2 fares zone they just might say forget it and go to kings plaza instead.

And you said the B82 and B6 handle Canarsie well honestly it doesn't cover much at all for example if i live at Ave  N and E 93 st  i gotta pay  two fares the b82 and b6 is no where near by 

 

Avenue N and E 93 (technically Canarsie Rd), you're by the B17, 42 and 103. There's no double fare to either the 6 or 82. Not all the Gateway buses head north, the Q8 heads east into Queens. Like everyone has been saying there is no demand for Spring Creek-Brooklyn College travel. Maybe you're seeking it, but not everyone else.

[Future ENY OP]

10 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Avenue N and E 93 (technically Canarsie Rd), you're by the B17, 42 and 103. There's no double fare to either the 6 or 82.

Not all the Gateway buses head north, the Q8 heads east into Queens. Like everyone has been saying there is no demand for Spring Creek-Brooklyn College travel. Maybe you're seeking it, but not everyone else.

In absolute agreement on this. 

[darrianQ60]

@Q43LTD yes im looking at the same map you are. After you go across crossbay blvd by via pitkin ave the streets that the b14 would past on pitkin ave are  

94 st

95 st 

96 st 

96 pl

97 st 

Centrville st / hawtree st  and then you are in the casino  by the A train aqueduct train station. 

The other idea for the b84 wasnt well recieve  which is ok but what about this one  extending  the  b14. Is this another bad idea because  i honestly think the b14 currently  ends no where significant to me at least.

[Q43LTD]

1 hour ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Q43LTD yes im looking at the same map you are. After you go across crossbay blvd by via pitkin ave the streets that the b14 would past on pitkin ave are  

94 st

95 st 

96 st 

96 pl

97 st 

Centrville st / hawtree st  and then you are in the casino  by the A train aqueduct train station. 

The other idea for the b84 wasnt well recieve  which is ok but what about this one  extending  the  b14. Is this another bad idea because  i honestly think the b14 currently  ends no where significant to me at least.

I still think there's no need for the B14 to go to the Casino. Where would it end at? As far as I'm concerned, I don't think any buses should on the property 

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, darrianQ60 said:

@Q43LTD yes im looking at the same map you are. After you go across crossbay blvd by via pitkin ave the streets that the b14 would past on pitkin ave are  

94 st

95 st 

96 st 

96 pl

97 st 

Centrville st / hawtree st  and then you are in the casino  by the A train aqueduct train station. 

The other idea for the b84 wasnt well recieve  which is ok but what about this one  extending  the  b14. Is this another bad idea because  i honestly think the b14 currently  ends no where significant to me at least.

What is making you so sure that the casino would even open up that side entrance (Pitkin av) for fixed-route public transit bus service? It's enough that they got the Q37 circling in & out of the casino from the main entrance on Rockaway Blvd!! Also, you're overlooking the fact that the bus stop inside the casino is much more proximate to Rockaway Blvd than it is to Pitkin, so you're creating unnecessary empty/wasted mileage inside casino property itself....

...and what's flown under the radar thus far with this B14 idea of yours, is the fact you'd straighten the route on Pitkin from ENY av all the way to the casino.... The fact that buses are currently taking Sutter (over Pitkin) east of the isn't the problem.... You would instantly lose a bunch of ridership off that route by displacing it further away from all the projects (plural) around Sutter/Mother Gaston & points south..... I'd go as far as to say you'd be re-creating the situation that had the B12 cut back from running on Liberty (severely low usage), have you shift the B14 so that it runs the length of Pitkin.... That is a clear example of straighter not always being better.

Furthermore, having the Q7 and the B14 running in that territory east of Grant on over to Cross Bay is not warranted.... It should be one route or the other, but not both of them....

Look, I don't care for the fact that the B14 terminates at the GMF either, but have the MTA implement both of these B14 suggestions of yours & it would make the route significantly less attractive..... You cannot possibly, logically, argue the contrary to that if you realized how important the route is, west of the Cypress houses....

The casino isn't the (latent) ridership generator you may think it is, or actually believe it to be.....

Edited November 1, 2018 by B35 via Church

[Just New York]

I had high hopes for my area when they created the B84 there’re under utilizing the line.

Just my thoughts.

B20 Ridgewood/ Postal Fac 

Current Route Between Ridgewood- New Lots/ Penn Av

New Lots, Van Siclen, Wortmen

Current route to Postal Fac

 

B83 Boadway Junction/ Gateway Mall Via Penn Av

Current route Between Bway Junction- New Lots/Penn Av 

Straight On Penn, Current route To Gateway.

Rush Hour Peak Direction service via Vandalia, Van Siclen, Flatlands Av, Penn AV.

 

B84 New Lots Av-ENY/ Gateway Mall 

Current Route Between Gateway Mall-Flatlands/ Jerome.

WB

Straight on Flatlands, Right In Van Siclen, left  Wortmen, Right Penn Av, Right New Lots, Right Ashford, Left Hegemen, left Cleveland to New Lots Station.

EB 

Laviona Straight, Left Penn Av, Left Wortmen, Right Van Siclen, Left Flatlands Current Route to Gateway Mall.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Just New York

[JayJay]

Since the B103 heads out of the Spring Creek depot near Flatlands/Fountain Aves why not begin there for FedEx and USPS workers to use instead of Flatlands/Williams Ave? 

[JeremiahC99]

4 hours ago, JayJay said:

Since the B103 heads out of the Spring Creek depot near Flatlands/Fountain Aves why not begin there for FedEx and USPS workers to use instead of Flatlands/Williams Ave? 

Do you suggest it terminating at Flatlands/Fountain or building a bus stop at the Mail Facility?

Also, I may have a better idea to serve the facility and the surrounding community:

Extension of the B14:

Service to the Postal Facility Loop would be discontinued. Once the route reaches Stanley Av, it would head east along Stanley, then south along Forbell before reaching the back roads of the facility. It would make one stop at the back road, near Forbell Street and Cozine Av, then proceed through the facility internal roadways to Flatlands Av, then west along Flatlands Av and follow the routing of the routes there to the Gateway Center Bus Terminal. This proposal may require the cooperation of the facility to work, but it can be done. Passengers for the eliminated route can walk one block or transfer to the B13 or B20 at Stanley Av or Linden Blvd.

 

One benefit is that it would provide bus service to the small community bounded by Flatlands Av, Cozine Av, Grant Av, and Forbell St, improving travel out of their small isolated community.

[JayJay]

I was suggesting a begin/termination at Flatlands/Fountain Ave. B15 service was removed from the Postal Facility several years ago inconveniencing those who worked the night shift and the B13 stops at both the Postal Facility and Flatlands/Fountain Ave where FedEx is located

[Yankees4life]

On 11/19/2018 at 6:13 PM, JayJay said:

Since the B103 heads out of the Spring Creek depot near Flatlands/Fountain Aves why not begin there for FedEx and USPS workers to use instead of Flatlands/Williams Ave? 

I'm not too sure myself.

 

 

That makes some sense tho. Start the B103 in the Mail Facility (via Flatlands, Fountain, Stanley) to Brooklyn College/Downtown Brooklyn