Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Around the Horn]

I see Fredrick has had enough of Facebook groups (rightfully) telling him his ideas are nuts so he's come here instead...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Fredrick Wells 2? What happened to Fredrick Wells 1?                                                                                                                                                                                         (jk)

Edited March 9, 2019 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Orion6025]

19 minutes ago, Fredrick Wells 2 said:

Because the B80 SBS would have free transfers to the B43 and B48 in Greenpoint, the B44 (Local and SBS), B46, B47 and B60 in Williamsburg, the B69 in Clinton Hill, and the B37, B41, B61 and B63 in Downtown Brooklyn.

Transfers don't mean much when you have to endure a very long bus ride. Regardless all of those routes provide easy access to the G train.

19 minutes ago, Fredrick Wells 2 said:

Plus it would take less time for a Sheepshead Bay customer to take the  or  to Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center and transfer to the B80 SBS than to pull a  or  -->  -->  -->  --> Q47/Q70 SBS.

Riding the B/Q to a slow bus route saves walking between transfers but ultimately it's not going to save much time.

---

and for canarsie, the b60 is an absolutely horrible route; having people transfer between those two would take forever.

[Fredrick Wells 2]

6 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

Transfers don't mean much when you have to endure a very long bus ride. Regardless all of those routes provide easy access to the G train.

Riding the B/Q to a slow bus route saves walking between transfers but ultimately it's not going to save much time.

---

and for canarsie, the b60 is an absolutely horrible route; having people transfer between those two would take forever.

I agree that the B60 is horrible, but there's nothing you can do with it as it is a "network coverage" route. You can't put a LIMITED or SBS on the route because it doesn't meet the headway guidelines and the Rockaway Avenue and Wilson Avenue corridors are narrow.

[Ultimategamer12c]

I could say the B60 was trash when Grand had it was never on time and always mad a problem for canarsie... but it's at FP and since it's my main home route and me taking it if the B82 dosent come or B6 the B60 will pop up before anyone of those two routes I can truly say that there would be 3 buses back to back which made me wonder how and which shows me the B60 did somewhat got better with time schedule  when it's with FP but when it was with Grand it did hella bad I cant say to much when it was at ENY either but from the looks of it the B60 slightly  got better in my opinion....

[B35 via Church]

Frederick Wells?

Oh hell no......

 

[Future ENY OP]

35 minutes ago, Ultimategamer12c said:

I could say the B60 was trash when Grand had it was never on time and always mad a problem for canarsie... but it's at FP and since it's my main home route and me taking it if the B82 dosent come or B6 the B60 will pop up before anyone of those two routes I can truly say that there would be 3 buses back to back which made me wonder how and which shows me the B60 did somewhat got better with time schedule  when it's with FP but when it was with Grand it did hella bad I cant say to much when it was at ENY either but from the looks of it the B60 slightly  got better in my opinion....

From personal observation. The 60 is the type of route you gotta schedule correct so that it’s interline can connect. Being that the 60 and Q54 are in Fresh Pond the interline seems to be working so far. 

I’m slightly going off topic for a moment—>. The B52 is now the unofficial B38 with more increased service and i think the 60 may be a close 2nd. However, it’s going to take time for the 60 to reach B52 status. 

[Ultimategamer12c]

1 hour ago, Ultimategamer12c said:

I could say the B60 was trash when Grand had it was never on time and always made a problem for canarsie... but it's at FP and since it's my main home route and me taking it if the B82 dosent come or B6 the B60 will pop up before anyone of those two routes I can truly say that there would be 3 buses back to back which made me wonder how and which shows me the B60 did somewhat got better with time schedule  when it's with FP but when it was with Grand it did hella bad I cant say to much when it was at ENY either but from the looks of it the B60 slightly  got better in my opinion....

 

[Orion6025]

18 hours ago, Fredrick Wells 2 said:

I agree that the B60 is horrible, but there's nothing you can do with it as it is a "network coverage" route. You can't put a LIMITED or SBS on the route because it doesn't meet the headway guidelines and the Rockaway Avenue and Wilson Avenue corridors are narrow.

And that's EXACTLY why thinking that having a slow B60 transfer to a hypothetically slow B80 SBS is not much reason to justify the creation of the b80 sbs! You kinda just proved my point there lmao

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:53 PM, Fredrick Wells 2 said:

I'll add this. Brooklyn needs another route to JFK (say from the Marine Park area) to compliment the B15, and a new Downtown Brooklyn to LaGuardia SBS route.

The to Court Square, transfer to the  to Jackson Heights to transfer to either the Q70 LaGuardia Link or Q47 would be too much for Brooklyn customers that could use a B80 SBS that would go non-stop in Queens across the Kosciuscko Bridge and connect with many Brooklyn North-South routes and Subway lines directly.

Don't wanna come off as cruel (who does?), but crayoning routes all over a bus map for the sake of doing it solves nearly nothing. I don't see how these ideas are needed at all. Put effort into your plans if you actually want something meaningful to happen.

We might as well starve the troll I guess...

Edited March 10, 2019 by NoHacksJustKhaks

[Yankees4life]

On 3/9/2019 at 8:51 AM, B35 via Church said:

Frederick Wells?

Oh hell no......

 

Nuovo Wallyhorse?

[Around the Horn]

On March 12, 2019 at 4:24 AM, Yankees4life said:

Nuovo Wallyhorse?

He's ten times worse than Wallyhorse. His reasoning may be misguided but at least Wally has reasoning...

[Kingjunior34]

B81

ENY Depot

Broadway Junction or any north Brooklyn/Queens terminal to Downtown Brooklyn via Eastern Parkway Full Length from Broadway to grand army plaza.

would that route ever work ? 

 

 

[JeremiahC99]

7 hours ago, Kingjunior34 said:

B81

ENY Depot

Broadway Junction or any north Brooklyn/Queens terminal to Downtown Brooklyn via Eastern Parkway Full Length from Broadway to grand army plaza.

would that route ever work ? 

 

 

That could work, but instead of full length eastern Parkway, I suggest having the route start at Broadway Jct, head south on Pennsylvania Avenue with the B20 and B83, and take Liberty Avenue and East NY Avenue to Ralph Avenue, then south on Ralph Avenue to Eastern Pkwy, where it would continue on Eastern Pkwy. This would fill in the gap on Liberty Avenue that has existed after the B40 was discontinued haphazardly without replacement. At least this would serve a new market than fully duplicating the B12 route.

[Lex]

2 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

That could work, but instead of full length eastern Parkway, I suggest having the route start at Broadway Jct, head south on Pennsylvania Avenue with the B20 and B83, and take Liberty Avenue and East NY Avenue to Ralph Avenue, then south on Ralph Avenue to Eastern Pkwy, where it would continue on Eastern Pkwy. This would fill in the gap on Liberty Avenue that has existed after the B40 was discontinued haphazardly without replacement. At least this would serve a new market than fully duplicating the B12 route.

What is the obsession with that part of Liberty Avenue?

[JeremiahC99]

6 minutes ago, Lex said:

What is the obsession with that part of Liberty Avenue?

Ever since the B40, which once served that section, was discontinued, riders going from east of Ralph Avenue have no great way to head further east. By putting a bus route back there like god intended, B45, B47, and B65 passengers can have a bus to take that goes further east, improving access to the Howard Houses and reliving crowding (and consequently) providing a connection to the B12, B20, and B83 routes.

[Lex]

1 minute ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Ever since the B40, which once served that section, was discontinued, riders going from east of Ralph Avenue have no great way to head further east. By putting a bus route back there like god intended, B45, B47, and B65 passengers can have a bus to take that goes further east, improving access to the Howard Houses and reliving crowding (and consequently) providing a connection to the B12, B20, and B83 routes.

You literally don't need a bus on Liberty Avenue just to serve Howard Houses, and there are better ways to connect with the B20 and B83 than having a route that's alreay serving Downtown Brooklyn via an unspecified route north/west of Grand Army Plaza (and that's assuming there's even a significant number of people clamoring for that connection in the first place).

I also don't think I need to tell you about how your statement reads.

[JeremiahC99]

46 minutes ago, Lex said:

You literally don't need a bus on Liberty Avenue just to serve Howard Houses, and there are better ways to connect with the B20 and B83 than having a route that's alreay serving Downtown Brooklyn via an unspecified route north/west of Grand Army Plaza (and that's assuming there's even a significant number of people clamoring for that connection in the first place).

I also don't think I need to tell you about how your statement reads.

Another way to serve Liberty Avenue is to extend the B65 to Broadway Junction. A very ingenious proposal, the extended route would head east on St. John’s Place, then onto East NY Avenue where a connection to the B12 is present. From there, it would take East New York Av to Mother Gaston Blvd. At M. Gaston, the route would shift onto Liberty Avenue to Pennsylvania Avenue, the operate to Penn Avenue to Broadway Junction. The loop at Broadway Junction would be the same as the B83.

 

A similar proposal was made in 2004, a decade after the elimination of the B40. The concept is the same, but the difference is in that proposal, Liberty Avenue was served in only one direction and westbound buses took Van Sindern Avenue to go directly to East NY Avenue, a routing that is impossible due to the LIRR line blocking thru traffic on Van Sinderen. This proposal would

• give B65 passengers a direct ride to Brownsville
• give B45 and B47 an Bus route to an area not served by the B14 and inadequately served by the B12 (the B12 and the  skirts this area).
• give Liberty Avenue residents a direct bus ride to the Broadway Jct   station complex instead of the Alabama Avenue  stop (where the B12 goes), providing multiple subway options in case the  are impacted by service changes west of Broadway Junction.

Eliminating the B40 without replacement was a complete mistake as it made travel through Ocean Hill and Brownsville much more difficult. By restoring service on this portion on Liberty Avenue, East-west travel would be easier thanks to reduced dependence on the already-overburdened B12 route.

[Lex]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Another way to serve Liberty Avenue is to extend the B65 to Broadway Junction. A very ingenious proposal, the extended route would head east on St. John’s Place, then onto East NY Avenue where a connection to the B12 is present. From there, it would take East New York Av to Mother Gaston Blvd. At M. Gaston, the route would shift onto Liberty Avenue to Pennsylvania Avenue, the operate to Penn Avenue to Broadway Junction. The loop at Broadway Junction would be the same as the B83.

 

A similar proposal was made in 2004, a decade after the elimination of the B40. The concept is the same, but the difference is in that proposal, Liberty Avenue was served in only one direction and westbound buses took Van Sindern Avenue to go directly to East NY Avenue, a routing that is impossible due to the LIRR line blocking thru traffic on Van Sinderen. This proposal would

• give B65 passengers a direct ride to Brownsville
• give B45 and B47 an Bus route to an area not served by the B14 and inadequately served by the B12 (the B12 and the  skirts this area).
• give Liberty Avenue residents a direct bus ride to the Broadway Jct   station complex instead of the Alabama Avenue  stop (where the B12 goes), providing multiple subway options in case the  are impacted by service changes west of Broadway Junction.

Eliminating the B40 without replacement was a complete mistake as it made travel through Ocean Hill and Brownsville much more difficult. By restoring service on this portion on Liberty Avenue, East-west travel would be easier thanks to reduced dependence on the already-overburdened B12 route.

Yes, and run the risk of backing up Broadway Junction itself. Since we're talking about sending a route that's already serving Downtown Brooklyn over there (and without its counterpart, to boot), we're also talking about having more buses run behind, and all to stroke someone's ego.

While we're at it, let's talk about just how far away Broadway Junction is from the relevant parts of Liberty Avenue. It's not. Yes, it can be difficult to reach (thanks, planners!), but there are already several access points to that area from Liberty Avenue itself. In addition, Alabama Avenue is a short walk away from Broadway Junction itself.

I also want to point out that the last sentence in my previous response was meant as a warning to watch what you say regarding what you propose, but it's rather obvious that it didn't register, as "god" was more clearly referenced.

[Interested Rider]

I tried to find the appropriate thread for this change which is coming and thanks to the post that the people who are in charge are reading our post, I hope that someone will see this post.

Today when I was at East 15th Street and Avenue Z, I noticed pipe and the the big concrete thing that is associated with sewer construction on the south side of Avenue Z near East 16th Street. When I see these things, I get worried as the B/36, B/4 and B/49 operate on that street and there are no real alternative streets if construction will be done. 

[JeremiahC99]

23 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

I tried to find the appropriate thread for this change which is coming and thanks to the post that the people who are in charge are reading our post, I hope that someone will see this post.

Today when I was at East 15th Street and Avenue Z, I noticed pipe and the the big concrete thing that is associated with sewer construction on the south side of Avenue Z near East 16th Street. When I see these things, I get worried as the B/36, B/4 and B/49 operate on that street and there are no real alternative streets if construction will be done. 

I believe that service would go via Sheepshead Bay Road to Jerome Avenue, then via Jerome Avenue to East 17th Street, left on East 17th Street to Avenue Z, then right on Avenue Z to regular route. Missed stops will be made nearby.

[Interested Rider]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I believe that service would go via Sheepshead Bay Road to Jerome Avenue, then via Jerome Avenue to East 17th Street, left on East 17th Street to Avenue Z, then right on Avenue Z to regular route. Missed stops will be made nearby.

I agree with you as for the eastbound/northbound routing but then what happens when the entire street is closed off at that point?

When Sheepshead Bay Road Road was two way from East 17th Street to East 15th Street then there was no problem  as the buses could be rerouted. That does not exist now as it is one way from East 14th Street to East 17th Street and the portion from East 14th Street to the Station has become a taxicab parking lot.  

This is why I posted what I did with the hope that someone in the MTA will look at the post and try to figure out a solution that would be implemented before it becomes one big headache, 

[Interested Rider]

Let me update as construction has started on the south parking lane of Avenue Z just east of the bus stop on the east side of East 15th Street.

There is no parking on the north side of Avenue Z at that location and all eastbound traffic on Avenue Z is diverted into the westbound lane at that point. The eastbound bus stop at East 15th Street remains in use at that point.

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Low key there are 2 Gleason lines that needs to be split. B8 and B16. Yes, they both travel long miles and are septic to major delays. There has to be a way if these 2 lines can be split. I think the severity of the delays are around the Borough Park area.

I moved this here since I feel like this is something that can be a nice proposal.

On the issue of the B16, the issue that causes it to be slow is the indirect routing it takes to get from McDonald Avenue and Caton Avenue to Ft. Hamilton Pkwy and 60th Street. Currently, the subpar and indirect routing involves buses going south on Dahill Road, west on 12th Avenue, east on 36th Street and 37th Street, south on 13th and 14th Avenues, and east on 56th/57th Streets. This routing is slow, circuitious, and outdated. Yes, this was fine when there was no 13th Avenue Bridge over the Sea Beach  tracks and Maimonides Hospital was not popular, but now both have been improved. The bus routes around haven't. This has to change.

To better improve service and reliability, a revamped B23 would run on 13th and 14th Avenues. Service would run from Bay Ridge to Canarsie Plaza, another area in need of a service change. More specifically:

• The B23 would start at 4th Avenue and 86th Street, sharing the terminal with the B1. It would then head east down 86th Street to 13th Avenue, then head up north on 13th Avenue (13th/14th Avenues in Borough Park) to 39th Streets, where it would connect with the B35. From there, it would head east on 39th Street, and north on Dahill Road to reach Cortelyou Road and McDonald Avenue, where it would connect to the B67 and B69. From that point, the route would continue on its old routing along Cortelyou R0ad to Flatbush Avenue, then shift onto Beverley Road to Nostrand/Rogers Avenue, where it would connect with the  and  trains. The route would head south on Nostrand/Rogers Avenues to Avenue D, to connect with the B8 and B44 lines, then follow the B8 route to Remsen Avenue. This is due to the street grid in the East Flatbush area that has the presence of Holy Cross Cemetery interrupt Beverly Road. At Remsen Avenue, the route would then turn south to terminat at Canarsie Plaza on Avenue D and Remsen Avenue.
  • The B16 would be rerouted to merge onto Fort Hamilton Pkwy at McDonald Avenue, then take Fort Hamilton Pkwy directly to Fort Hamitlon Pkwy and 60th Street, passing by Maimonides Hospital.
  • For 16th Avenue, the B67 and B69 would be extended to serve it to the 62nd Street  station.
  • In addition, the B103 would then make all stops on Cortelyou Road.

This ingenious plan would better serve Borough Park, and speed service on the B16, and improve connectivity between neighborhoods. Its a win-win-win for everybody.

[B35 via Church]

I'd keep the B16 on 12th.... Meaning (from Bay Ridge), buses would stay on Ft. Hamilton to 39th, hang a right on 39th, stay on it for one block, then hang that left onto 12th, to maintain the current routing en route to Prospect Park subway..... Too significant an amount of people, I find, on the NE bound B16 still on the bus after it diverts off Ft. Hamilton Pkwy. (with not much passenger activity in-between) are gunning for the B35 (14th/39th stop)... That antiquated portion of the B16 b/w those two stints can be done away with.... Any 13th av. bus route can then be concocted accordingly....