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B36 Via Ave U

Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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2 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Apparently most riders prefer the B1 to the subway, not the B49 because it is much slower. That’s why 50 percent of the B1 riders from Manhattan Beach get off at the subway, while only about 20 percent of B49 riders get off at the station. And if you surveyed B49 riders going to the college, I would bet most are coming from the northern part of Ocean Avenue and most are also transferring from other buses. The school running buses to the points you suggested would not be utilized and would be wasteful.

The reason they run buses from Stillwell is because there is no single MTA bus route from there to the college. I agree that the college needs to do more. What they should do is share the expenses with the MTA for providing service because if the MTA refused to provide service, they would be forced to provide the service at a greater expense. The MTA needs to put their foot down. The college also does not care about its students. They refused to allow the MTA to run some buses on their property and give them space to turn the buses around. They made a ball field instead where the MTA proposed a new bus terminal.

so, basically, the college has repeatedly bit the hand that's "feeding" them, so to speak... that's just wonderful. way to be a community pillar KCC 🙄

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2 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

so, basically, the college has repeatedly bit the hand that's "feeding" them, so to speak... that's just wonderful. way to be a community pillar KCC 🙄

Basically. KCC needs to look at CSI. I believe CSI had a similar issue many moons ago of not letting buses stop in front or near the campus. 

This could be simply worked out with KCC but I see the indifference. 

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4 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i can't argue with LOGIC, sir. there are definitely mitigating circumstances that are very prevalent and still exist

I will just add one point. This is the reason why there are so few B44 riders south of Avenue X. When SBS was proposed, which I was against, the MTA claimed the SBS service would be so superior that most B36 and some B4 bus riders would find it quicker to use the SBS to the Junction rather than take the B36 or B4 to Sheepshead Bay Station. They scheduled service based on that projecting filled SBS buses from Avenue Z. I told them that would never happen, but they were insisted they were right.

They were forced to greatly reduce service from Knapp Street after the first pick when they saw they couldn’t fill the buses. And they buses remained empty even after they reduced service while the B36 is as crowded as ever bypassing passengers who cannot board. Stand at Avenue Z and Nostrand  at 8 AM like I did and watch B36s with 85 riders per bus and 60 foot B44s with 6  passengers and tell me they are running the system correctly. 

I was just trying to find a way to better utilize empty buses. 

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10 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i can't argue with LOGIC, sir. there are definitely mitigating circumstances that are very prevalent and still exist

At least BrooklynBus is willing to admit that current issues with the route needs to be addressed first (he also did so in the previous discussion of the proposal last year, or whenever it was).... His shadow however, thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because 1] it's coming from BrooklynBus & 2] again, the fact that the B44 south of 'X carries lightly....

This gives a new meaning to Leader-Follower.....

6 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

so, basically, the college has repeatedly bit the hand that's "feeding" them, so to speak... that's just wonderful. way to be a community pillar KCC 🙄

KCC has always been overrated to me & I know of 3 former acquaintances that got the f*** out of there (all for different reasons)....

Not sure if this changed, but back in my high school & college years, KCC students, I found, acted like HS kids themselves... I'm willing to bet KCC itself treats its student body like grown kids themselves.... Wouldn't surprise me at all.

5 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Basically. KCC needs to look at CSI. I believe CSI had a similar issue many moons ago of not letting buses stop in front or near the campus. 

This could be simply worked out with KCC but I see the indifference. 

Bingo.

*looks at the S93*

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11 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

At least BrooklynBus is willing to admit that current issues with the route needs to be addressed first (he also did so in the previous discussion of the proposal last year, or whenever it was).... His shadow however, thinks it's the greatest thing since sliced bread because 1] it's coming from BrooklynBus & 2] again, the fact that the B44 south of 'X carries lightly....

This gives a new meaning to Leader-Follower....

KCC has always been overrated to me & I know of 3 former acquaintances that got the f*** out of there (all for different reasons)....

Not sure if this changed, but back in my high school & college years, KCC students, I found, acted like HS kids themselves... I'm willing to bet KCC itself treats its student body like grown kids themselves.... Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Bingo.

*looks at the S93*

Exactly. You can’t have your way KCC. 

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4 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Exactly. You can’t have your way KCC. 

The MTA should apply political pressure to at least get them to turnover the revenue it receives from charging for seasonal permits that allow their students to fill the entire Manhattan Beach Parking Lot. They charge $50 per semester. Why should they get that revenue when it isn’t even their property? It is the city’s property. The MTA has just as much right to claim that revenue due to all the extra service it provides to service their students.

Regarding the college itself, there have been a few documented anti-semetic incidents against professors there by other members of the staff. Totally unacceptable. 

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32 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

The MTA should apply political pressure to at least get them to turnover the revenue it receives from charging for seasonal permits that allow their students to fill the entire Manhattan Beach Parking Lot. They charge $50 per semester. Why should they get that revenue when it isn’t even their property? It is the city’s property. The MTA has just as much right to claim that revenue due to all the extra service it provides to service their students.

Regarding the college itself, there have been a few documented anti-semetic incidents against professors there by other members of the staff. Totally unacceptable. 

Regarding your first portion of the statement. I agree. The (MTA) needs to go after KCC on that. 

In regards to the college it’s self. That’s something they need to fix internal and may involve NYPD.  However, that has no relevance to what is going on the transportation spectrum. 

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1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

Regarding your first portion of the statement. I agree. The (MTA) needs to go after KCC on that. 

In regards to the college it’s self. That’s something they need to fix internal and may involve NYPD.  However, that has no relevance to what is going on the transportation spectrum. 

I agree it has no relevance on the transportation system. I only mentioned it because it was stated that the college isn't what it used to be and what I mentioned substantiates that. 

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6 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

The reason they run buses from Stillwell is because there is no single MTA bus route from there to the college. I agree that the college needs to do more. What they should do is share the expenses with the MTA for providing service because if the MTA refused to provide service, they would be forced to provide the service at a greater expense. The MTA needs to put their foot down. The college also does not care about its students. They refused to allow the MTA to run some buses on their property and give them space to turn the buses around. They made a ball field instead where the MTA proposed a new bus terminal.

 

Meanwhile, QCC happily gave up a parking lot to build an off-street bus loop for the Q27, and even offered to rebuild that loop to bring in the Q30. (That later plan was abandoned after testing showed that the Q30 wouldn't be able to stop where the new "island" boarding stop would have been built, which is why the Q30 stops across the street.) Both routes have since seen huge growth in college ridership.

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19 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Meanwhile, QCC happily gave up a parking lot to build an off-street bus loop for the Q27, and even offered to rebuild that loop to bring in the Q30. (That later plan was abandoned after testing showed that the Q30 wouldn't be able to stop where the new "island" boarding stop would have been built, which is why the Q30 stops across the street.) Both routes have since seen huge growth in college ridership.

It all depends on who is calling the shots. At KCC it was the former dean, retired and now deceased. Whenever I spoke to him about it, he would give me double talk while the MTA seemed to be straight forward in what they were asking for and what they were willing to do. 

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14 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

It all depends on who is calling the shots. At KCC it was the former dean, retired and now deceased. Whenever I spoke to him about it, he would give me double talk while the MTA seemed to be straight forward in what they were asking for and what they were willing to do. 

At QCC, it was the President of the college (now retired).

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On 4/17/2019 at 9:17 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Basically. KCC needs to look at CSI. I believe CSI had a similar issue many moons ago of not letting buses stop in front or near the campus. 

This could be simply worked out with KCC but I see the indifference. 

Now they stop mid-way in the campus (admin loop), and the crowding problem has been largely resolved with headways no greater than 12 minutes (it used to be 30). I would also have to wonder about perhaps a B1X pattern, with the first stop being Brighton Beach. I would dispatch it like this during peak times:

First B1: express to Brighton Beach, all stops afterward to Bay Ridge.

Second B1: local to Bay Ridge

Third B1: bypass KCC, start pickup at second stop.

Also, CUNY needs to consider buying its own buses and then leasing them to one central contractor.

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6 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Now they stop mid-way in the campus (admin loop), and the crowding problem has been largely resolved with headways no greater than 12 minutes (it used to be 30). I would also have to wonder about perhaps a B1X pattern, with the first stop being Brighton Beach. I would dispatch it like this during peak times:

First B1: express to Brighton Beach, all stops afterward to Bay Ridge.

Second B1: local to Bay Ridge

Third B1: bypass KCC, start pickup at second stop.

Also, CUNY needs to consider buying its own buses and then leasing them to one central contractor.

Your plan only works in theory. There are too few passengers boarding after the college for it to make sense for any buses not to stop at the first stop. The MTA tried to instruct drivers to leave the first stop before they were too full, but students were threatening the bus drivers when they were not able to board. KCC security refused to help out. The also ran some buses  labeled as subway shuttle only stoping at the college and the subway, but I haven’t seen that labeling lately. 

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Kingsborough has had over 50 years to resolve this problem and they did nothing.

I attended KCC from 1966 - 1968 and in the 1967 - 1968 year, I was at the Manhattan Beach Campus (the year before the college had a branch at the Manhattan Beach Jewish Center where I attended classes) and the same problems involving the students were around at that time with the difference being the two routes that served Mackenzie Street (the old, old B/1 with 20 minute headways and the B/21). Since that time they have built this beautiful campus but yet KCC did nothing for those students that were taking the bus to school such as incorporating a bus loop which would have alleviated many of the problems.

As posted here, other colleges have helped their students by providing either substitute bus service or by working with the MTA in terms of providing a place for the MTA to have its buses stop close to the campus. This is another case where another unit has pushed its problems on the back on the MTA and is forcing the MTA to resolve a problem that they did not create. It is about time that the MTA pushed the problem back to where it belongs onto Kingsborough and get them to resolve a problem that is of their own making and make it abundantly clear that it is their problem to solve and not the MTA.

After all, Kingsborough has had over 50 years to resolve the problem so KCC cannot tell the MTA that they will continue to do nothing.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

Kingsborough has had over 50 years to resolve this problem and they did nothing.

I attended KCC from 1966 - 1968 and in the 1967 - 1968 year, I was at the Manhattan Beach Campus (the year before the college had a branch at the Manhattan Beach Jewish Center where I attended classes) and the same problems involving the students were around at that time with the difference being the two routes that served Mackenzie Street (the old, old B/1 with 20 minute headways and the B/21). Since that time they have built this beautiful campus but yet KCC did nothing for those students that were taking the bus to school such as incorporating a bus loop which would have alleviated many of the problems.

As posted here, other colleges have helped their students by providing either substitute bus service or by working with the MTA in terms of providing a place for the MTA to have its buses stop close to the campus. This is another case where another unit has pushed its problems on the back on the MTA and is forcing the MTA to resolve a problem that they did not create. It is about time that the MTA pushed the problem back to where it belongs onto Kingsborough and get them to resolve a problem that is of their own making and make it abundantly clear that it is their problem to solve and not the MTA.

After all, Kingsborough has had over 50 years to resolve the problem so KCC cannot tell the MTA that they will continue to do nothing.

 

 

 

I agree but KCC will not act on their own. The only thing they did was to start their own bus service which helps just a little. They will not act on their own. It is up to the MTA and elected officials to force them to act. 

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7 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Now they stop mid-way in the campus (admin loop), and the crowding problem has been largely resolved with headways no greater than 12 minutes (it used to be 30). I would also have to wonder about perhaps a B1X pattern, with the first stop being Brighton Beach. I would dispatch it like this during peak times:

First B1: express to Brighton Beach, all stops afterward to Bay Ridge.

Second B1: local to Bay Ridge

Third B1: bypass KCC, start pickup at second stop.

Also, CUNY needs to consider buying its own buses and then leasing them to one central contractor.

During (KCC) peak loading times, the first B1 & the second B1 in such a scenario would essentially be the same thing !! Buses more or less run non stop to Brighton Beach subway anyway when it's packed full of KCC students, so what real difference would designating them as such do (B1x)? What, piss off Manhattan Beach residents even more - not only can they not get on the bus as it is, now it's quote-unquote official that they can't board those trips....

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12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Now they stop mid-way in the campus (admin loop), and the crowding problem has been largely resolved with headways no greater than 12 minutes (it used to be 30). I would also have to wonder about perhaps a B1X pattern, with the first stop being Brighton Beach. I would dispatch it like this during peak times:

First B1: express to Brighton Beach, all stops afterward to Bay Ridge.

Second B1: local to Bay Ridge

Third B1: bypass KCC, start pickup at second stop.

Also, CUNY needs to consider buying its own buses and then leasing them to one central contractor.

We had a similar situation I was in JHS the B6 trippers to ENY. At one point we had both the B6/B82 but it was a issue because they would be close door from E 82 st to Rockaway parkway. Now it’s just The B6 with the 4 trippers which operates as normal from E 82 St to ENY. 

Normal customer can now either wait 15-30 for a already packed regular B6 or Get on the Trippers full of kids. 

This option could work because the 3rd Bus would not have KCC students. The 2nd bus shadows the B1X so by the time the 3rd leave you have normal service towards the train stations.

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34 minutes ago, Just New York said:

This option could work because the 3rd Bus would not have KCC students. The 2nd bus shadows the B1X so by the time the 3rd leave you have normal service towards the train stations.

Except it doesn't, as nearly all of the Manhattan Beach ridership is from KCC. Doing that would lead to the B1 still being ridiculously packed for those trips starting at KCC while the ones not starting there carry air to Brighton Beach (assuming students don't walk the extra distance to catch those trips).

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Lex said:

Except it doesn't, as nearly all of the Manhattan Beach ridership is from KCC. Doing that would lead to the B1 still being ridiculously packed for those trips starting at KCC while the ones not starting there carry air to Brighton Beach (assuming students don't walk the extra distance to catch those trips).

All B1 should start from KCC The B1X would act as a limited. That way you don’t have packed B1 while people stand on oriental blvd and wait.

B1 - every 4-5

B1X - every 8-10

Edited by Just New York

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1 minute ago, Just New York said:

All B1 should start from KCC The B1X would act ass a limited.

In other words, nothing's really changed.

As others have pointed out, the B1 is far too packed with KCC students to handle anyone else, and even with the B49 there to take some (not that much, since it's simply not as desirable) stress off, the core issue is that KCC is doing nothing to help. Rebranding some buses to indicate that they won't make any stops by nature (rather than being too full) will, if anything, make the route even less attractive to those with no KCC affiliation (as @B35 via Church  basically pointed out).

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1 hour ago, Lex said:

In other words, nothing's really changed.

This is pretty much my sentiment of AE Moreira's suggestion.

What's bugging me here is the clear inattentiveness of the B1, west of the Brighton Line..... The Bensonhurst - Bay Ridge portion's no slouch when it comes to heavy ridership either.

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Also posted in the revamping thread: B6 and B103 around Nostrand Junction:

What about making Glenwood and Avenue H a one-way pair between Flatbush and Albany? Glenwood would be one-way eastbound and Avenue H one-way westbound. Anyone who rides the B6 or B103 knows that there can be a jam between New York and Flatbush, with that as a choke-point.  With that, a left turn that lasts the entire red light at Flatbush and Glenwood would be possible. (Under this, the B11 would have its first stop to Sunset Park relocated to the B41 stop on that block.) Being one way would permit 2 through lanes of traffic; speed humps would be installed at various points to prevent speeding as well as a speed camera at Glenwood Road before Brooklyn Avenue (enforcing a school zone for St. Vincent Ferrer's school). On Avenue H, having 2 lanes would eliminate the traffic jam where New York Avenue dumps traffic onto Avenue H by having 2 through lanes instead of 1.

Separately from that, I would add a B6 Limited stop at East 45 Street (the B103 had this recently added both ways) to serve Altice's payment center.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Lex said:

In other words, nothing's really changed.

As others have pointed out, the B1 is far too packed with KCC students to handle anyone else, and even with the B49 there to take some (not that much, since it's simply not as desirable) stress off, the core issue is that KCC is doing nothing to help. Rebranding some buses to indicate that they won't make any stops by nature (rather than being too full) will, if anything, make the route even less attractive to those with no KCC affiliation (as @B35 via Church  basically pointed out).

You worry about something we can’t control which is  KCC. The B1 can be modified and actually labeled which would make a huge difference. By putting the B1X on the schedule you free up Regular B1 as most KCC students will opp for the B1X then regular B1. I didn’t bring up the B49 because it does not serve the train station nobody going to walk from West end Avenue. 

Edited by Just New York

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22 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Also, CUNY needs to consider buying its own buses and then leasing them to one central contractor.

I'd have to agree with this... Something like how Academy runs NYU shuttles with branded LFSes.

IDK what buses Kingsborough uses, but Queens used school buses for their shuttles and didn't even offer a shuttle to the closest subway station (Forest Hills) so naturally the Q64 gets slammed with kids all the time.

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1 hour ago, Just New York said:

You worry about something we can’t control which is  KCC. The B1 can be modified and actually labeled which would make a huge difference. By putting the B1X on the schedule you free up Regular B1 as most KCC students will opp for the B1X then regular B1. I didn’t bring up the B49 because it does not serve the train station nobody going to walk from West end Avenue. 

You can come back to Earth, now.

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