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B36 Via Ave U

Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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3 hours ago, Lex said:

No facepalm is enough...

(I completely overlooked this. Thanks for pointing it out.)

I figured something was lost in translation 😁. I’ve  had a free bus and subway pass for almost forty years and I have never made the short trip from Jay to Borough Hall by public transit. Heck, my uncle and I walked it last week and he’s 88 while I’m a kid ( his words) of 70. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread the Downtown Brooklyn area is the hub, the CBD is the destination, so any bus route that does NOT enter this area is , by definition, a waste. Just my opinion. Carry on.

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14 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

First of all, can you provide us with a map of where you would put this "Shuttle" and terminate the other routes?

Also, Downtown Brooklyn is supposed to be a hub, where people would transfer to other bus routes. Not the best idea because you would be forcing people to make another transfer, and more transfers = less reliability = lost ridership.

I was the one who wrote the linked article he cited. I wrote it back in 2013 when much more land was available near Atlantic Terminal. Today, I do not know if a bus terminal like the one I envisioned would even be possible. I also once mapped out which routes I would terminate there and it would have included all bus routes  traveling the length of the Fulton Mall and Livingston Street and no others. It would not include routes like the B54, B57, B61, B62, B63, and B103. 

It was to be an enclosed terminal with heating and A/C with a short walk between buses and a three car light rail vehicle that would be free and run via the Fulton Street Mall cutting through Borough Hall to Cadman Plaza with some vehicles continuing to Brooklyn Bridge Park or south toward Red Hook. The headways would be every two or three minutes most of the day. There would always be one waiting. Late night, buses could run on their present routes. Just as people do not mind across the platform subway transfers if there is no extra wait, I believe this transfer would be just as acceptable. It would also greatly increase reliability of any bus route terminating at the terminal since the routes would be shorter and not have to deal with Downtown traffic congestion. The light rail would have its own right of way and also would be reliable. 

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3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I was the one who wrote the linked article he cited. I wrote it back in 2013 when much more land was available near Atlantic Terminal. Today, I do not know if a bus terminal like the one I envisioned would even be possible. I also once mapped out which routes I would terminate there and it would have included all bus routes  traveling the length of the Fulton Mall and Livingston Street and no others. It would not include routes like the B54, B57, B61, B62, B63, and B103. 

It was to be an enclosed terminal with heating and A/C with a short walk between buses and a three car light rail vehicle that would be free and run via the Fulton Street Mall cutting through Borough Hall to Cadman Plaza with some vehicles continuing to Brooklyn Bridge Park or south toward Red Hook. The headways would be every two or three minutes most of the day. There would always be one waiting. Late night, buses could run on their present routes. Just as people do not mind across the platform subway transfers if there is no extra wait, I believe this transfer would be just as acceptable. It would also greatly increase reliability of any bus route terminating at the terminal since the routes would be shorter and not have to deal with Downtown traffic congestion. The light rail would have its own right of way and also would be reliable. 

I also read that old article of yours and it is great. I like the idea of having a light rail replace the buses on Fulton Mall and Livingston Street. Light rail could be perfect for a shopping corridor like the Fulton Mall.

I was also thinking of the same thing you are talking about, and DOT even recommended a bus terminal in Downtown for the routes. However, the difference between your idea and the DOT recommendation was that the DOT was proposing a bus shuttle to Tillary Street while you were proposing a light rail. However, DOT also proposed truncation of routes running along the Fulton and Livingston corridor to the new terminals, which is similar to what you want. However, the benefits are the same: reliability of the truncated routes now that they no longer have to deal with the Downtown congestion, which is something I have personally witnessed, especially along Jay St.

As far as land is concerned, I know that there may not any be suitable spaces available for a bus terminal you envision today. However, this situation is not unique to Flushing, as even the MTA also recommended a bus terminal in there, but no suitable space is available. Just like Flushing, I do believe there will be available space in the future to build the terminal.

And finally, the routes that should terminate there are the B25, B26, B37, B38, B41, B45, B52, and B67. All travel on Fulton and Livingston and will be able to terminate at the terminal, with the light rail providing replacement service in Downtown. However, the northern section of the B67 through the Navy Yard should be replaced by another route that can serve both Downtown Brooklyn, Dumbo, and the Brooklyn Navy Yard all at once (the initial goal of the B67. An extension of either the B61 from Fulton Mall to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza or the B32 from the Plaza to the Mall should be studied. The northern end of the B25 can also be served by the light rail as well. However, with the truncation of these routes to the terminal, bus service on these routes can be several times more reliable in the area most people are traveling (outside Downtown Brooklyn). The extra buses left over from this can be used for extra service. More specifically:

Enhanced B25 bus service between Broadway Jct and the terminal

Short turn B41 service operating between Nostrand Junction and it’s southern terminals.

Better B41 service in general

Better B67 and B69 service on 7th Avenue 

Those are some of the ideas that can be done with the extra buses. The B103 can continue to operate into Downtown via Livingston.

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13 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I also read that old article of yours and it is great. I like the idea of having a light rail replace the buses on Fulton Mall and Livingston Street. Light rail could be perfect for a shopping corridor like the Fulton Mall.

I was also thinking of the same thing you are talking about, and DOT even recommended a bus terminal in Downtown for the routes. However, the difference between your idea and the DOT recommendation was that the DOT was proposing a bus shuttle to Tillary Street while you were proposing a light rail. However, DOT also proposed truncation of routes running along the Fulton and Livingston corridor to the new terminals, which is similar to what you want. However, the benefits are the same: reliability of the truncated routes now that they no longer have to deal with the Downtown congestion, which is something I have personally witnessed, especially along Jay St.

As far as land is concerned, I know that there may not any be suitable spaces available for a bus terminal you envision today. However, this situation is not unique to Flushing, as even the MTA also recommended a bus terminal in there, but no suitable space is available. Just like Flushing, I do believe there will be available space in the future to build the terminal.

And finally, the routes that should terminate there are the B25, B26, B37, B38, B41, B45, B52, and B67. All travel on Fulton and Livingston and will be able to terminate at the terminal, with the light rail providing replacement service in Downtown. However, the northern section of the B67 through the Navy Yard should be replaced by another route that can serve both Downtown Brooklyn, Dumbo, and the Brooklyn Navy Yard all at once (the initial goal of the B67. An extension of either the B61 from Fulton Mall to Williamsburg Bridge Plaza or the B32 from the Plaza to the Mall should be studied. The northern end of the B25 can also be served by the light rail as well. However, with the truncation of these routes to the terminal, bus service on these routes can be several times more reliable in the area most people are traveling (outside Downtown Brooklyn). The extra buses left over from this can be used for extra service. More specifically:

Enhanced B25 bus service between Broadway Jct and the terminal

Short turn B41 service operating between Nostrand Junction and it’s southern terminals.

Better B41 service in general

Better B67 and B69 service on 7th Avenue 

Those are some of the ideas that can be done with the extra buses. The B103 can continue to operate into Downtown via Livingston.

I would replace the northern end of the B67 with a rerouted B69 that served its original route so that B67 service could be returned to the frequencies it once had. The MTA really destroyed that route.

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