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B36 Via Ave U

Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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lol....

If you know about that, then why are you trying to rationalize a "false" argument :P

 

The comment I replied to of yours about the main purpose being the riders, was a half-truth.....

In this reply of yours now, the part in bold is reinforcing what I said regarding the purpose of public transportation....

 

That last segment of the reply (which I'm not sure why you even brought up), you might wanna re-think that....

In sayin that, you are assuming there aren't people from other areas in mass numbers that are trying to get to some big enough destination you speak of - that don't drive... It's almost like you're trying to undermine how important public (surface) transportation can be.....

 

But the thing is that if there are a ton of people already going to the destination, then there should be enough ridership that the MTA would feel it was justified to run the service.

 

And my point was that those places are unlikely to shut down due to lack of a bus directly on the street. Unless you happen to work at the local store or something like that (but it's far enough away that it's easier to take a bus than walk there).

 

I'm not sure how to put this, but public transportation shouldn't necessarily have to serve every single trip you would want to make, if there isn't enough demand (or there is more demand elsewhere). If it results in a few trips being less convenient, so be it.

 

Oh please. You're missing the point, so let me move on to my other point. As a business you can't necessarily control who your clientele will be and many business DO rely on traffic from public transportation. That's just the way it is. The department I run, a large amount of my business comes from organizations like hospitals. That's just the way it is. Same thing in this case. The point is the loss of public transportation hurts the community as a whole. People who need public transit to do everyday errands can't, businesses lose money or close down and the neighborhood becomes less vibrant.

 

Oh please yourself.

 

For the people who need transit to do everyday errands, that's why I wouldn't support taking away the service completely unless ridership was extremely low. If it was taken away from one street, but there's still transit on another street, it's less convenient, but it's not a huge loss.

 

And I still have a hard time believing that there would be a business dependant on riders who use public transportation, and couldn't survive solely on people in the neighborhood and drivers, unless you're talking about a line with super-high ridership or something like that.

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1) Yeah, but my point is that you could still serve one without serving the other.

 

2) First of all, it's not a good comparison because Richmond Avenue is literally the only north-south corridor in the area. You can't say that the S57 on Willowbrook Road or the S46 on South Avenue is a reasonable alternative for most people on the route. Neptune Avenue, is closer to Brighton Beach Avenue than Richmond Avenue is to either of those streets. Even Emmons Avenue, while it's still a far walk to Avenue Z is still within somewhat of a walking distance of the B36. You can't say the same about this area because the streets are messed up (not to mention that neither the S46 or S57 goes too far south anyway. If you're going south of Victory Blvd along Richmond Avenue, you would literally have no bus at all in the neighborhood)

 

Second of all, ShopRite goes into areas with far worse transportation and still does fine. I don't think there's transportation in Ellenville or Garnerville, NY. Being the large store that it is, ShopRite expects most of its customers to come by car. When they have that huge Can Can Sale twice a year, I doubt they expect people to carry 30 cans of beans onto a bus, in addition to whatever else they're buying.

 

Do you see people carrying bags of food onto the bus? Yes, of course. I've done it myself. But are the majority of the customers doing that? No. Most of the people I see are filling up a shopping cart. If you're doing that, I highly doubt you plan to bring that stuff on a bus.

 

If Richmond Avenue (and I assume Forest Avenue as well) lost bus service, yeah, ShopRite would see its sales go down, but it definitely wouldn't cause it to go under.

 

And the same applies to smaller stores like Walgreens: Most of the customer base are either people who are walking or driving there.

 

And how do you know that the stores aren't just being shut down because of a bad economy? There were a bunch of stores that went down these past few years: Circuit City, Blockbuster, Hollywood Videos (I don't know if it's a chain or anything, but it was a local movie store). The economy has affected everybody. In practically every neighborhood, there are more boarded-up homes than there used to be (even if it just went from being no boarded-up homes to one or two). The same way people are forced out of their homes is the same way businesses are being shut down.

 

 

 

Well, most of the stores along Neptune Avenue are little stores like delis and Chinese food places. They aren't things people would take a bus to get to. I mean, maybe if they're waiting for the bus they could stop by at the deli, but still, if you're going to establish a business in the neighborhood, you should have more of a customer base than people waiting for a bus.

 

Oh please. You're missing the point, so let me move on to my other point. As a business you can't necessarily control who your clientele will be and many business DO rely on traffic from public transportation. That's just the way it is. The department I run, a large amount of my business comes from organizations like hospitals. That's just the way it is. Same thing in this case. The point is the loss of public transportation hurts the community as a whole. People who need public transit to do everyday errands can't, businesses lose money or close down and the neighborhood becomes less vibrant.

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And my point was that those places are unlikely to shut down due to lack of a bus directly on the street. Unless you happen to work at the local store or something like that (but it's far enough away that it's easier to take a bus than walk there).

 

I'm not sure how to put this, but public transportation shouldn't necessarily have to serve every single trip you would want to make, if there isn't enough demand (or there is more demand elsewhere). If it results in a few trips being less convenient, so be it.

This whole shutting down bit.... I still don't know why you're instilling that point to me though; that is more via's argument....

 

I understand some mode of public transportation (buses, in this case) aren't sent to some destination to alleviate the possible shutting down of businesses.... it's simply to get them to that destination....

 

All I questioned/disputed/commented on, was your notion of the main purpose of running buses.... It had nothing to do with the B4.....

That B4 side discussion is between you two; I been said all I had to about that whole emmons/neptune thing.....

 

Sorry about the 'tude. Didn't mean to be disrespectful.

It was just a question, thats all. I wouldn't mind your opinion, though!

aight... no prollem bro :tup:

 

will comment on those ideas of yours, in a few.

Edited by B35 via Church

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And my point was that those places are unlikely to shut down due to lack of a bus directly on the street. Unless you happen to work at the local store or something like that (but it's far enough away that it's easier to take a bus than walk there).

 

I'm not sure how to put this, but public transportation shouldn't necessarily have to serve every single trip you would want to make, if there isn't enough demand (or there is more demand elsewhere). If it results in a few trips being less convenient, so be it.

 

 

Of course not, but you can't sit here and tell me that areas that lose public transportation are not affected economically. That's the point I was making and the (MTA) knows this. Aside from that the ridership in that portion that was cut was strong enough to keep that segment up and running. This is no different than what was set to happen in NJ where businesses urged folks to use the buses there for fear of their store shuttering.

 

And if you're really all about buses not meandering then I guess we need to look numerous bus routes, because many of them do just that.

 

Quite frankly if this was another part of Brooklyn this would not be happening. The (MTA) is cutting service in Southern Brooklyn especially because they can get away with it.

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Of course not, but you can't sit here and tell me that areas that lose public transportation are not affected economically. That's the point I was making and the knows this. Aside from that the ridership in that portion that was cut was strong enough to keep that segment up and running. This is no different than what was set to happen in NJ where businesses urged folks to use the buses there for fear of their store shuttering.

 

And if you're really all about buses not meandering then I guess we need to look numerous bus routes, because many of them do just that.

 

Quite frankly if this was another part of Brooklyn this would not be happening. The is cutting service in Southern Brooklyn especially because they can get away with it.

 

um, that was checkmate's post, not mine.....

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Of course not, but you can't sit here and tell me that areas that lose public transportation are not affected economically. That's the point I was making and the (MTA) knows this. Aside from that the ridership in that portion that was cut was strong enough to keep that segment up and running. This is no different than what was set to happen in NJ where businesses urged folks to use the buses there for fear of their store shuttering.

 

And if you're really all about buses not meandering then I guess we need to look numerous bus routes, because many of them do just that.

 

Quite frankly if this was another part of Brooklyn this would not be happening. The (MTA) is cutting service in Southern Brooklyn especially because they can get away with it.

 

Assuming you're referring to Neptune Avenue (because I'm not going to discuss Emmons Avenue because there's nothing to discuss. Whatever arguments you want to use to bring back the service, it should be brought back), the point is that it would be better off along Avenue Z when you look at the big picture. More people would benefit from the more direct routing compared to the people who would be inconvenienced by having to walk further and/or take a different bus. Now, if it was a ridiculously long distance to the B1, I could understand it, but that's not the case (and if you really must know what I consider ridiculously long, it would be about 1/2 mile in an urbanized area, and in this case if you really needed to, you could take the B1 or B68 and transfer)

 

As far as meandering goes, most of the time it's to serve pockets that can't easily be served directly. For instance, the S52 does a lot of meandering because a lot of the areas it serves are on hills, and the street pattern makes it hard for them to be served by another bus. The S74 does some meandering in the South Shore because it benefits more people to have service in the Rossville area, compared to the number of people riding between areas east and west of Rossville.

 

And the MTA cut service all over Brooklyn. The Carroll Gardens/Park Slope area is probably pretty influential and they cut the B71. the B13 in East Williamsburg (which is likely gaining political influence with the hipsters and everybody). They cut the B48 in Crown Heights, the B24 in Greenpoint/Williamsburg, and the B39 in Williamsburg, which all have a certain number of hipsters and everything.

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Assuming you're referring to Neptune Avenue (because I'm not going to discuss Emmons Avenue because there's nothing to discuss. Whatever arguments you want to use to bring back the service, it should be brought back), the point is that it would be better off along Avenue Z when you look at the big picture. More people would benefit from the more direct routing compared to the people who would be inconvenienced by having to walk further and/or take a different bus. Now, if it was a ridiculously long distance to the B1, I could understand it, but that's not the case (and if you really must know what I consider ridiculously long, it would be about 1/2 mile in an urbanized area, and in this case if you really needed to, you could take the B1 or B68 and transfer)

 

As far as meandering goes, most of the time it's to serve pockets that can't easily be served directly. For instance, the S52 does a lot of meandering because a lot of the areas it serves are on hills, and the street pattern makes it hard for them to be served by another bus. The S74 does some meandering in the South Shore because it benefits more people to have service in the Rossville area, compared to the number of people riding between areas east and west of Rossville.

 

And the MTA cut service all over Brooklyn. The Carroll Gardens/Park Slope area is probably pretty influential and they cut the B71. They cut the Q24 along Broadway and the B12 along Liberty Avenue, and the B13 in East Williamsburg (which is likely gaining political influence with the hipsters and everybody)

 

Yes, it's longer but in this case having used the line myself for half of my life I think it belongs on Neptune simply because it would take the load off of buses like the B1 and B68 and also would give folks an option who would otherwise be forced to use the B49. The B36 does just fine along that portion of Avenue Z.

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Yes, it's longer but in this case having used the line myself for half of my life I think it belongs on Neptune simply because it would take the load off of buses like the B1 and B68 and also would give folks an option who would otherwise be forced to use the B49. The B36 does just fine along that portion of Avenue Z.

 

Except the purpose isn't to help the B36. You can't really say it would help the B36 for that 3/4 of a mile or so where it would serve the same street. That's like saying the S54 helps the S74 on the stretch of Arthur Kill Road they share together: They serve 2 seperate groups of riders (and yes, I know the S54 & S74 get lower ridership than the B4 & B36, but you get the point)

 

As for the people who would be forced to use the B49, if they have to, they can walk to Ocean Avenue and backtrack (or now that I think about it, the B4 can take Avenue Z-Sheepshead Bay Road-Emmons Avenue if that's a concern). As for the B1, it runs more frequently and to more popular destinations than the B4 and that's why people use it. Maybe it would help a little bit, but not a whole lot. You're better off adding a little more service to the B1, using the money saved by the more direct routing of the B4.

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um, that was checkmate's post, not mine.....

 

Don't even try and join their private conversation man. It's no use. :P

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Don't even try and join their private conversation man. It's no use. :P

 

He's not joining it, though. He's just pointing out that the post VG8 was referring to was made by me, not B35.

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He's not joining it, though. He's just pointing out that the post VG8 was referring to was made by me, not B35.

 

It's funny... where VG8 is, checkmate is to follow and vice versa... are you sure you guys aren't related? :P

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um, that was checkmate's post, not mine.....

 

I don't know why but for some reason I could've sworn you posted that... :( My apologies.

 

Except the purpose isn't to help the B36. You can't really say it would help the B36 for that 3/4 of a mile or so where it would serve the same street. That's like saying the S54 helps the S74 on the stretch of Arthur Kill Road they share together: They serve 2 seperate groups of riders (and yes, I know the S54 & S74 get lower ridership than the B4 & B36, but you get the point)

 

As for the people who would be forced to use the B49, if they have to, they can walk to Ocean Avenue and backtrack (or now that I think about it, the B4 can take Avenue Z-Sheepshead Bay Road-Emmons Avenue if that's a concern). As for the B1, it runs more frequently and to more popular destinations than the B4 and that's why people use it. Maybe it would help a little bit, but not a whole lot. You're better off adding a little more service to the B1, using the money saved by the more direct routing of the B4.

 

Well I still disagree. The B1s and B49s can arrive packed and be forced to bypass folks, so why make folks go through all of that just to save a few pennies? I would like to see what the savings would be by having them continue down Avenue Z instead of going down Neptune??

 

 

It's funny... where VG8 is, checkmate is to follow and vice versa... are you sure you guys aren't related? :P

 

More like the other way around. He likes debating and I've taught for several years, so I like having intellectual debates as well that are in depth so the end result is this. :( You know for someone who lives in Brooklyn, you sure haven't added anything of use to this conversation... :confused:

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More like the other way around. He likes debating and I've taught for several years, so I like having intellectual debates as well that are in depth so the end result is this. ;) You know for someone who lives in Brooklyn, you sure haven't added anything of use to this conversation... :confused:

 

Because I don't live in South Brooklyn! I can't remember the last time I was there, so I can't contribute anything factual. I'll just spectate on this one. ;)

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Because I don't live in South Brooklyn! I can't remember the last time I was there, so I can't contribute anything factual. I'll just spectate on this one. ;)

 

Hmm... I guess we'll give you a pass then. ;)

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It's funny... where VG8 is, checkmate is to follow and vice versa... are you sure you guys aren't related? ;)

 

LOL. Maybe he's my long-lost cousin or something. Or maybe a brother from another mother. ;)

 

Well I still disagree. The B1s and B49s can arrive packed and be forced to bypass folks, so why make folks go through all of that just to save a few pennies? I would like to see what the savings would be by having them continue down Avenue Z instead of going down Neptune??

 

Yeah, but even before that, it's not like the B4 was really helping. Maybe along Sheepshead Bay Road with the B49, but like I said, it could still be rerouted to run via SHB Road instead of Ocean Avenue. But with the B1, it's just naturally a more popular route. You have more activity going on along 86th Street than Bay Ridge Parkway, and a lot of the overcrowding has to do with college students, and the B4 doesn't go to KCC.

 

As far as the savings go, it saved $1.6 million (or it was supposed to save $1.6 million. The real savings were less than that), but that included discontinuing service east of CI Hospital.

 

Doing some rough calculations, it would add about 6-8 minutes to the runtime of the B4 to go down to Neptune Avenue and come back up (this is excluding the loop it has to do around CI Hospital, since I'd get rid of that). It costs around $90 per hour to run an NYC bus IIRC. So it would cost an extra $9 - $12 per trip to make the diversion. Multiply that by the number of trips per week, multiply that by 52 weeks, and you have your answer.

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LOL. Maybe he's my long-lost cousin or something. Or maybe a brother from another mother. ;)

 

 

 

Yeah, but even before that, it's not like the B4 was really helping. Maybe along Sheepshead Bay Road with the B49, but like I said, it could still be rerouted to run via SHB Road instead of Ocean Avenue. But with the B1, it's just naturally a more popular route. You have more activity going on along 86th Street than Bay Ridge Parkway, and a lot of the overcrowding has to do with college students, and the B4 doesn't go to KCC.

 

As far as the savings go, it saved $1.6 million (or it was supposed to save $1.6 million. The real savings were less than that), but that included discontinuing service east of CI Hospital.

 

Doing some rough calculations, it would add about 6-8 minutes to the runtime of the B4 to go down to Neptune Avenue and come back up (this is excluding the loop it has to do around CI Hospital, since I'd get rid of that). It costs around $90 per hour to run an NYC bus IIRC. So it would cost an extra $9 - $12 per trip to make the diversion. Multiply that by the number of trips per week, multiply that by 52 weeks, and you have your answer.

 

Yeah well I would get rid of the loop as well to be honest. I don't know why but it does take a while to get from Sheepshead Bay to Bay Ridge, but quite frankly the bus becomes slower once you get past Gravesend. :confused:

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Yeah well I would get rid of the loop as well to be honest. I don't know why but it does take a while to get from Sheepshead Bay to Bay Ridge, but quite frankly the bus becomes slower once you get past Gravesend. :confused:

 

Well, the point of the loop is just to terminate the bus there, so if it were extended, there's be no point.

 

BrooklynBus brought up a couple of points regarding the loop:

1) It's stupid that it ends by CI Hospital. If they're going to have it loop around, they might as well have the terminal at CI Avenue, so you can transfer to the B68 in both directions instead of just one (you can transfer from the B4 to the B68, but if you do it vice versa, you have to sit through the bus while it's on layover, and hope the B/O lets you do that in the first place).

 

2) With the distance it spends making the loop around CI Hospital, it could just as easily make it to the Sheepshead Bay station, offering a bidirectional transfer to the B68, as well as a transfer to the B49 and (;)(Q). Plus, during rush hours, riders aren't inconvenienced having to ride through the loop, and it saves distance and therefore costs.

 

I mean, you can make the argument (for the MTA) that cutting the B4 back to CI Hospital saved money, but you can't make an excuse for not having at least connect to the subway, or at least CI Avenue in both directions. (And yes, I know it should go to SHB full time, but I'm just saying they should've at least done it like that)

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According to Gmaps, the loop around CI Hosp (to/from from Av Z and West St) is 1.3 miles.

 

The loop to/from Sheepshead Station is 1.6 miles.

 

So it's a bit longer.

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B10/64: Prospect Park Sta-Coney Island, combined with B64. (Via 13/14 Avs)

B10a (Or B10):Via 13 & 14 Avenue & Bath Ave to Coney Island. Combined with B64.

 

B19: Prospect Park Sta - Bay Ridge. (Via 13/14 Aves, 65 St & 3rd Avenue)

B10b (Or B19): Via 13 & 14 Avenues & 65 Street to Sunset Park.

 

B33: - Towards Sheepshead Bay: Bay Ridge Avenue > Bay Parkway > W.6 St > Avenue X

- From Sheepshead Bay: Avenue X > W.6 St > Bay Parkway > 68 St.

(parts in red, taken from another post of yours)

 

B10: I always felt the B64 should be its own route; I wouldn't combine it with anything.... BrooklynBus feels/felt it should be combined w/ the B70...

 

Aside from the above, I'll say this - the riders that take the B16 in borough park (13th/14th av's), generally travel within borough park.... so you don't really need the B16 (and your B10) going to Prospect park; Borough Park patrons aren't heading to lefferts Gdns.... So having your B10 do that as a compromise is all for naught.....

 

Furthermore, the (real) B64 panning up 13th like it does now, is the reason that route's less useful as it is.... How can I say this - It looks like you're extending the 64 northward because you moved the 16 off 13th/14th..... Problem with that is, the demand is higher for/towards Bay ridge than it is for/towards CI.... Connecting the aforementioned two areas (as terminals) should be done with the B64; either with reverting it back along 86th st or having it serve VA hosp/ft hamilton area, en route to 86th st subway.....

 

So I'm basically questioning demand with your B10...

 

 

B19: another prospect park route?

Anyway, this route is simply too circuitous/indirect for no real reason....

 

Addressing a service gap is more than just sending some route anywhere...

 

 

B33: Not a bad idea, but I would send such a route to CI Hospital (and have it do that exact same thing (that loop checkmate & via's talkin about) the current B4 does, instead of the B4 doing it) instead of sheepshead bay....

 

my thinking is:

B4: parallels the B1 along 86th st, via av. z to sheepshead bay

a B5: runs along bay ridge pkwy

a B33: runs b/w bay ridge (up in the 60's, instead of 86th st) & CI hospital... hmm, not a bad idea at all.....

 

 

- I realize that truncating the B70 is a dumb idea, but I stand by my B8 !

 

- Don't even try and join their private conversation man. It's no use.

 

1) I don't try to get people to change their opinion....

 

2) lol....

 

 

I don't know why but for some reason I could've sworn you posted that... ;) My apologies.

No problem.... It happens.

 

 

If they're going to have it loop around, they might as well have the terminal at CI Avenue, so you can transfer to the B68 in both directions instead of just one

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but the last dropoff stop is at CI avenue.... the actual terminal (and first pickup stop, although hardly anyone waits along the south side of the hosp.) is over there on the corner of voorhies/ocean pkwy (on voorhies).....

 

as far as terminating buses on that corner of CI/Av Z.... outside of terminal space, that school on that corner would throw a fit.... that's another reason why I think they didn't make that a terminal/layover spot....

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B10: I always felt the B64 should be its own route; I wouldn't combine it with anything.... BrooklynBus feels/felt it should be combined w/ the B70...

 

Aside from the above, I'll say this - the riders that take the B16 in borough park (13th/14th av's), generally travel within borough park.... so you don't really need the B16 (and your B10) going to Prospect park; Borough Park patrons aren't heading to Lefferts Gardens.... So having your B10 do that as a compromise is all for naught.....

 

Furthermore, the (real) B64 panning up 13th like it does now, is the reason that route's less useful as it is.... How can I say this - It looks like you're extending the 64 northward because you moved the 16 off 13th/14th..... Problem with that is, the demand is higher for/towards Bay ridge than it is for/towards CI.... Connecting the aforementioned two areas (as terminals) should be done with the B64; either with reverting it back along 86th st or having it serve VA hosp/ft hamilton area, en route to 86th st subway.....

 

So I'm basically questioning demand with your B10...

 

That explanation kind of shoots itself in the foot. Boro Park residents use the (B16). Even if most don't need the Prospect Park leg, some might. If there was no service, no one would be happy. The purpose of the B10 is to help straighten out the (B16) while trying to service everyone. People can always transfer to the B33 (below). I could reroute the B19 to fix this as well, but that route has a purpose of it's own.

B19: another prospect park route?

Anyway, this route is simply too circuitous/indirect for no real reason....

 

Addressing a service gap is more than just sending some route anywhere...

 

The B19 is a supplement to the (B70), because people along 3rd Avenue used the (B39) to go downtown (in theory) so B19, being able to connect with other lines, is a supplementary service.

 

B33: Not a bad idea, but I would send such a route to CI Hospital (and have it do that exact same thing (that loop checkmate & via's talkin about) the current B4 does, instead of the B4 doing it) instead of sheepshead bay....

 

my thinking is:

B4: parallels the B1 along 86th st, via av. z to sheepshead bay

a B5: runs along bay ridge pkwy

a B33: runs b/w bay ridge (up in the 60's, instead of 86th st) & CI hospital... hmm, not a bad idea at all.....

 

The B33 is like this because of the Emmons Avenue situation checkmate & VG8 are debating. It supplements the (B4), and provides much needed service to Emmons Avenue. But your alteration of the (B4) is not a bad idea. ;)

1) I don't try to get people to change their opinion....

 

Ok. Personally, you never know. That (B8) extention may help a few people! ;)

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That explanation kind of shoots itself in the foot.

 

Boro Park residents use the B16. Even if most don't need the Prospect Park leg, some might. If there was no service, no one would be happy. The purpose of the B10 is to help straighten out the while trying to service everyone. People can always transfer to the B33 (below). I could reroute the B19 to fix this as well, but that route has a purpose of it's own.

The explanation does no such thing....

 

You want to straighten the B16 along Ft. Hamilton pkwy. & you want the "B10" to take its place along 13th/14th avs.... got all that....

Not implicating they (borough park riders) should be left with nothing....

 

If you're gonna take on the "some might" ideology, then you may as well send every route everywhere...

 

Back to this B10 thing.... What you are failing to realize is that Bath Beach patrons want 86th st (which was revoked by the MTA from those folks)... not Lefferts Gardens & not Borough Park... Your B10/64 combination doesn't address that.... To your credit, you are addressing bus service issues along 13th/14th av & the portion of the B64 that was revoked b/w UP depot & Mermaid bus loop.....

 

Your B10 serving areas northeast of 13th/14th though (however you plan on sending it to prospect park from borough park, it really doesn't matter).... Why, because the B16 already serves prospect park... I'm still not understanding why you think two more routes from SW Brooklyn should head up to prospect park anyway.... You haven't made that clear.

 

Your B10 routing north of 86th st does B64 riders no justice... hell, it's not much different than the current situation those riders have to face.... only difference is the MTA has the B64 turning west onto Bay Ridge av, and you have it continuing northward to prospect park....

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The explanation does no such thing....

 

You want to straighten the B16 along Ft. Hamilton pkwy. & you want the "B10" to take its place along 13th/14th avs.... got all that....

Not implicating they (borough park riders) should be left with nothing....

 

Ok.

If you're gonna take on the "some might" ideology, then you may as well send every route everywhere...

 

Lol_Wut.jpg

Back to this B10 thing.... What you are failing to realize is that Bath Beach patrons want 86th st (which was revoked by the MTA from those folks)... not Lefferts Gardens & not Borough Park... Your B10/64 combination addresses neither.... To your credit, you are addressing bus service issues along 13th/14th av & the portion of the B64 that was revoked b/w UP depot & Mermaid bus loop.....

 

Your B10 routing to the north & east of 13th/14th though (however you plan on sending it to prospect park from borough park).... Well the B16 already serves prospect park... I'm still not understanding why you think two more routes from SW Brooklyn should head up to prospect park.....

 

Your B10 routing north of 86th st does B64 riders no justice... hell, it's not much different than the current situation those riders have to face.... only difference is the MTA has the B64 turning west onto Bay Ridge av, and you have it continuing northward to prospect park....

 

Like I said, folks in Bath Beach still can transfer to the B1 or the B33 for service to Fort Hamilton (South Bay Ridge) or North Bay Ridge, respectively.

The B10 can be detatched from the B64, if that's what you are so worried about, but with the B10 & the B33, the B64 is redundant.

 

I sent the B10 & 19 to Prospect Park because I think it is the best terminal. As you said, they don't nessesarily have to go that far. They can terminate in Boro Park and people wouldn't care.

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Back to this B10 thing.... What you are failing to realize is that Bath Beach patrons want 86th st (which was revoked by the MTA from those folks)... not Lefferts Gardens & not Borough Park... Your B10/64 combination doesn't address that.... To your credit, you are addressing bus service issues along 13th/14th av & the portion of the B64 that was revoked b/w UP depot & Mermaid bus loop.....

 

Your B10 serving areas northeast of 13th/14th though (however you plan on sending it to prospect park from borough park, it really doesn't matter).... Why, because the B16 already serves prospect park... I'm still not understanding why you think two more routes from SW Brooklyn should head up to prospect park anyway.... You haven't made that clear.

 

Your B10 routing north of 86th st does B64 riders no justice... hell, it's not much different than the current situation those riders have to face.... only difference is the MTA has the B64 turning west onto Bay Ridge av, and you have it continuing northward to prospect park....

 

Another thing that was great about the B64 for folks traveling from Sheepshead Bay to say Staten Island was that it gave you the option of doing the following:

 

(Q) train from Sheepshead Bay to Coney Island, and then transferring to the B64 at the Coney Island terminal, which I used quite a bit to get to the S53 years ago. It allowed you to bypass the long go on the B4 plus the walk or the stupid transfer to the slow (R) train to 86th street to get to the S53 and cut down the commute time somewhat. The (MTA) doesn't seem to realize that there is no east-west service in South Brooklyn that is quick for folks commuting from say Sheepshead Bay to Bay Ridge or even to Staten Island, which sucks royally. That's why I resorted to the X10 from Staten Island to the city and the BM3 back to Sheepshead Bay from Downtown. It isn't the quickest route per se in that you're backtracking a bit, but it lowers the amount of schlepping that I have to do and is somewhat less stressful to be honest, since I could stop off and get a quick lunch before continuing on the BM3.

 

And you are most certainly right about the B64. That's exactly what I used it for... 86th street.

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