Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[checkmatechamp13]

You are completely wrong!! I've used the route many times over the years and that's why I can talk about it the way that I do. I don't know what you're basing your information on, but you are wrong. The route got most of its ridership from 86th & 4th and then pickups here and there along major stops. It also got some ridership from the Coney Island terminal, as it provides a quick west-east connection once you transfer to the subway.

 

The route as it is set up now is destined to lose ridership, as it has already.

 

And the bolded part just proves what I said.

 

And I never denied that the route as it's set up now is destined to lose ridership, since it doesn't serve any part of 86th Street (except that one block between 13th & 14th Avenue)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And the bolded part just proves what I said.

 

And I never denied that the route as it's set up now is destined to lose ridership, since it doesn't serve any part of 86th Street (except that one block between 13th & 14th Avenue)

 

Uh no not really. The B64 serves a completely different rider base now.

[checkmatechamp13]

Uh no not really. The B64 serves a completely different rider base now.

 

When did I deny that?

 

Considering the fact that it doesn't go near either of its two former terminals, I think that's pretty obvious.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When did I deny that?

 

Considering the fact that it doesn't go near either of its two former terminals, I think that's pretty obvious.

 

You know I'm not going to even bother. I have no idea what you're even commenting on right now. The conversation was about the importance of 86th street to the B64 which it barely serves anymore, so I have no idea what you're arguing about now.

[B35 via Church]

Cool entertainment looks I watched this go long enough let me put an end to this

What you put an end to, was the sanity in this thread.....

 

Well, to be fair, the important thing wasn't really that it saved 86th Street. The important thing was that it served the area by 86th Street/4th Avenue, because you had a bunch of transfers available, plus shopping.

 

It could reach that area through another street. (Cropsey Avenue), but the issue becomes layover space in the area (since you have the SI buses, plus the B1, which are all pretty frequent).

 

Maybe what could be done is to have it go to 95th Street instead. It would still be in a somewhat commercial part of Bay Ridge, and would still offer the transfers to the SI routes, which should keep ridership reasonably high.

1st paragraph is a strawman argument; no one's arguing that the B64 "saved" 86th st... It's silly to have brought that up, to then point out the obvious of it previously having served the 86th/4th area, as a counter-argument.....

 

As for 95th st, that won't fly... those patrons (Bath Beach) were defiant in stating that they want 86th st.

 

Instead of the B9 turning at Ocean Av and Avenue M, make it Nostrand Av so B9 has more service on Avenue M.

iono, I don't see the advantage of doing that.... may as well leave the B9 alone in Midwood...

 

You said "Without access to 86th street which is the main artery that route serves".

 

It doesn't need to spend a significant amount of time along 86th Street to get good ridership. It just needs to serve that small section on the western end.

Which was the main artery the route served..... What is the problem?

 

It aint have to have spent "a significant amount of time" on 86th st, for it to have served the main artery that is 86th st (which resulted from the good ridership it used to have)... There was nothing wrong with that portion of his statement....

 

 

This aint makin no sense...... Lay it out on the line, fam....

What are you arguing against in this particular discussion, regarding the B64??

 

I have no idea what you're even commenting on right now. The conversation was about the importance of 86th street to the B64 which it barely serves anymore, so I have no idea what you're arguing about now

I can't figure out what he's debating either.....

Edited March 20, 2012 by B35 via Church

[Threxx]

You know I'm not going to even bother. I have no idea what you're even commenting on right now. The conversation was about the importance of 86th street to the B64 which it barely serves anymore, so I have no idea what you're arguing about now.

 

Thank you. He's just stating the obvious now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What you put an end to, was the sanity in this thread.....

 

LOL... Nuff said.

 

1st paragraph is a strawman argument; no one's arguing that the B64 "saved" 86th st... It's silly to have brought that up, to then point out the obvious of it previously having served the 86th/4th st area, as a counter-argument.....

 

My sentiments exactly...

 

 

This aint makin no sense...... Lay it out on the line, fam....

What are you arguing against in this particular discussion, regarding the B64??

 

I thought I was the only one having a problem..

 

I can't figure out what he's debating either.....

 

Now you see why I become annoyed with him at times...

[Threxx]

LOL... Nuff said.

 

 

Oh, I see the joke there... :cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh, I see the joke there... :cool:

 

Yes, very good.

[B35 via Church]

NEW B64 IDEA!

 

Via 86 ST & Bath Avenue: Shore Road - Coney Island!

 

It will supplement the B1 while keeping everyone in Bath Beach happy. But this probably won't happen...

In this idea, the B10 would remain on Bath Avenue, supplementing the B64 here.

 

It's kind of a flip-flop, but it is the better idea.

I didn't forget your edit here :tup:

 

Commenting on the idea.... By itself, your B64 idea is plausible.

Thing is, Bath av doesn't need two bus routes though....

 

Reverting the B64 is basically what's being (and what's been) suggested in the transit community.... but I'm not so sure the B64 even needs to go down to shore road....

 

Not saying you're suggesting this, but I have heard some folks on the forums bring up truncating the B16 to 86th/4th & extending the B64 to shore (in place of the 16)...... That pretty much comes down to demand; do those folks (shore rd) want the areas (served by the) 16 or the 64...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I didn't forget your edit here :tup:

 

Commenting on the idea.... By itself, your B64 idea is plausible.

Thing is, Bath av doesn't need two bus routes though....

 

Reverting the B64 is basically what's being (and what's been) suggested in the transit community.... but I'm not so sure the B64 even needs to go down to shore road....

 

Not saying you're suggesting this, but I have heard some folks on the forums bring up truncating the B16 to 86th/4th & extending the B64 to shore (in place of the 16)...... That pretty much comes down to demand; do those folks (shore rd) want the areas (served by the) 16 or the 64...

 

I'm puzzled to be honest... He claims he's not familiar with South Brooklyn, yet he's proposing all of these route changes?? :confused: Yeah Bath Beach certainly doesn't need that much service.

 

As for the B64 going down Shore Rd that could be doable, but as you said, the question is do folks in Bay Ridge want the service? I gather that they don't since it would mean more traffic along Shore Road when parking is already a nightmare.

[qjtransitmaster]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!! Slow down there quagmire... Too much speed I see, and I don't mean the speed that you're always referring to...

 

This is a linked plan and this is only part of it it is to add ridership to B31 &2 However the second part is the tricky one where in SI are ppl in coney island and areas near belt and bay parkway going to? once that is figured out phase 2 can extend em to SI bypassing bay ridge but phase 1 is to add bus service to ave p and s so the B31 & 2 will do it short term long term SI highway type rte

[qjtransitmaster]

I'm puzzled to be honest... He claims he's not familiar with South Brooklyn, yet he's proposing all of these route changes?? :confused: Yeah Bath Beach certainly doesn't need that much service.

 

As for the B64 going down Shore Rd that could be doable, but as you said, the question is do folks in Bay Ridge want the service? I gather that they don't since it would mean more traffic along Shore Road when parking is already a nightmare.

 

If I am not familiar with a concept I back off. I am mostly familiar with hub to hub connectivity

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This is a linked plan and this is only part of it it is to add ridership to B31 &2 However the second part is the tricky one where in SI are ppl in coney island and areas near belt and bay parkway going to? once that is figured out phase 2 can extend em to SI bypassing bay ridge but phase 1 is to add bus service to ave p and s so the B31 & 2 will do it short term long term SI highway type rte

 

Well that's great but you have to consider if the demand is there to send those routes there AND will buses remain reliable as a result? Some routes have been split or shortened due to the lack of reliability. The B2 and B31 serve a purpose as feeders to serve the subway station and residential neighborhoods. The question that the should be asking is why have residents stopped using the routes as much as they used to before and understand where the ridership has gone? Quite frankly I don't understand why they don't have meetings with communities discussing these types of things.

[qjtransitmaster]

Well that's great but you have to consider if the demand is there to send those routes there AND will buses remain reliable as a result? Some routes have been split or shortened due to the lack of reliability. The B2 and B31 serve a purpose as feeders to serve the subway station and residential neighborhoods. The question that the should be asking is why have residents stopped using the routes as much as they used to before and understand where the ridership has gone? Quite frankly I don't understand why they don't have meetings with communities discussing these types of things.

 

True the ave P and S extensions are to boost ridership turning em into crosstowns B100 can do ave P as local while B31 ltd stops. then see how they fare to bay pkway at the belt. and 25th ave. Then ask SI and areas in coney island and even sheepshead bay about service gaps to SI like getting there fast. Part of phase 2 is via some drop off points on si service rd to link with as many SI buses as possible.

[Rick44]

I have one idea for the (B2) and (B100), and I hope I'm not saying something that has been discussed before. I think that when MTA Bus and NYCT get combined (or before then), those routes should be combined together into a route that operates between Kings Highway ( and Mill Basin. It would run via the current B2 from Kings Highway Station to Gerritsen Av, then using Fillmore Avenue to get to East 36th Street instead of Avenue R. Then buses will turn on Avenue U for the Kings Plaza stop at the side of the mall. It can then use East 54th/55th Streets and Avenue T to get to Mill Avenue, or use Avenue U to get to Mill Avenue, and operate via the current (B100) into Mill Basin.

 

As for the B64, I think that route should run to Coney Island at least during the summer, to serve the beach/amusement goers.

 

Here's a map of it: http://g.co/maps/degbs

Edited March 20, 2012 by Rick44

[Threxx]

I didn't forget your edit here :tup:

 

Commenting on the idea.... By itself, your B64 idea is plausible.

Thing is, Bath av doesn't need two bus routes though....

 

Reverting the B64 is basically what's being (and what's been) suggested in the transit community.... but I'm not so sure the B64 even needs to go down to shore road....

 

Not saying you're suggesting this, but I have heard some folks on the forums bring up truncating the B16 to 86th/4th & extending the B64 to shore (in place of the 16)...... That pretty much comes down to demand; do those folks (shore rd) want the areas (served by the) 16 or the 64...

 

That's a good question... the B8 does a OK job in allowing transfers buses going to those areas.

 

Also, with this B64 plan, the B1 would keep the current 86 St routing with the B10 & B33 serving 13 Avenue & Bay Ridge Avenue. Keep in mind (this goes for VG8 as well...) that the B10 can also use Cropsey Avenue or 86 Street as a South Brooklyn artery.

[Q43LTD]

Of all the boroughs, that got royally screwed in 2010, Brooklyn got it the worse.

[BrooklynBus]

The B2 and B31 serve a purpose as feeders to serve the subway station and residential neighborhoods. The question that the should be asking is why have residents stopped using the routes as much as they used to before and understand where the ridership has gone? Quite frankly I don't understand why they don't have meetings with communities discussing these types of things.

 

In order for a route to be successful, it has to be multi-purpose. Routes such as the B2 and B31 whose sole purpose is to serve one subway line only gets use during the rush hours. The routes are dead at other times with never more than a handful of passengers.

 

There is no mystery why residents have stopped using these routes. First of all they were never heavily used during off-hours. The B2 saw some increase in ridership after the opening of Kings Plaza as it now had two purposes, but then several things happened. The B9 was extended to Kings Plaza providing the B2 with some competition. Service was cut further discouraging usage. Then the B31 was rerouted from Avenue U to Avenue R further cutting into the B2's ridership base and causing additional service cuts. Also, express routes BM4 gave Gerritsen Beach residents an alternative to the B31. When the B31 was rerouted, B2 service was cut and B3 service was increased, so if you are living near Kings Plaza, although the B2 takes you to an express stop, you also have your choice of either the B100, the B3 or the B31 depending on where you live, so the B2 really doesn't serve too much of a purpose with its limited headways and now no service on nights and weekends.

 

It didn't have to be this way. The B2 could have been extended along Avenue P westbound toward Bensonhurst giving it additional transfer connections and making it more useful. During the overnight after Kings Plaza closes, instead of being eliminated, the B46 could have been rerouted over the B2 route to Kings Highway Station at no additional cost.

 

I have one idea for the (B2) and (B100), and I hope I'm not saying something that has been discussed before. I think that when MTA Bus and NYCT get combined (or before then), those routes should be combined together into a route that operates between Kings Highway ( and Mill Basin. It would run via the current B2 from Kings Highway Station to Gerritsen Av, then using Fillmore Avenue to get to East 36th Street instead of Avenue R. Then buses will turn on Avenue U for the Kings Plaza stop at the side of the mall. It can then use East 54th/55th Streets and Avenue T to get to Mill Avenue, or use Avenue U to get to Mill Avenue, and operate via the current (B100) into Mill Basin.

 

I disagree with using Fillmore. Continuing to using Avenue R to East 36th Street makes more sense because it is centrally located and not bordering the park like Fillmore is. Also, residents would never permit a bus on East 54th and 55th Streets, so taking U all the way is more feasible.

 

I still think it should go past the Brighton subway westbound. In rush hours, probably only every other bus could be extended.

[checkmatechamp13]

1st paragraph is a strawman argument; no one's arguing that the B64 "saved" 86th st... It's silly to have brought that up, to then point out the obvious of it previously having served the 86th/4th area, as a counter-argument.....

 

I meant to say "served". "Saved" wouldn't make any sense.

 

As for 95th st, that won't fly... those patrons (Bath Beach) were defiant in stating that they want 86th st.

 

That would be better, but there's the problem with layover space. You have the S53/79/93 and the B1 terminating there, which are all pretty frequent, so you'd have to figure out a way around that.

 

Which was the main artery the route served..... What is the problem?

 

It aint have to have spent "a significant amount of time" on 86th st, for it to have served the main artery that is 86th st (which resulted from the good ridership it used to have)... There was nothing wrong with that portion of his statement....

 

 

He said "Without access to 86th street which is the main artery that route serves".

 

I took that to mean that it spent a lot of time on 86th Street, as in it's primary purpose was to serve the street (the same way the primary purpose of the B68 is to serve CI Avenue), and because it spend a decent amount of time on 86th Street. I was saying that the reason it got decent ridership wasn't just because it served 86th Street, but that specific part of 86th Street between Fort Hamilton Parkway and 4th Avenue.

 

So I thought he was saying that it should go back to 86th Street no matter what. I would prefer that it serve Cropsey Avenue and come up to 4th & 86th that way, and it would still get decent ridership because it would connect CI to Bay Ridge, and stop in the two commercial areas of those neighborhoods.

[Threxx]

In order for a route to be successful, it has to be multi-purpose. Routes such as the B2 and B31 whose sole purpose is to serve one subway line only gets use during the rush hours. The routes are dead at other times with never more than a handful of passengers.

 

There is no mystery why residents have stopped using these routes. First of all they were never heavily used during off-hours. The B2 saw some increase in ridership after the opening of Kings Plaza as it now had two purposes, but then several things happened. The B9 was extended to Kings Plaza providing the B2 with some competition. Service was cut further discouraging usage. Then the B31 was rerouted from Avenue U to Avenue R further cutting into the B2's ridership base and causing additional service cuts. Also, express routes BM4 gave Gerritsen Beach residents an alternative to the B31. When the B31 was rerouted, B2 service was cut and B3 service was increased, so if you are living near Kings Plaza, although the B2 takes you to an express stop, you also have your choice of either the B100, the B3 or the B31 depending on where you live, so the B2 really doesn't serve too much of a purpose with its limited headways and now no service on nights and weekends.

 

It didn't have to be this way. The B2 could have been extended along Avenue P westbound toward Bensonhurst giving it additional transfer connections and making it more useful. During the overnight after Kings Plaza closes, instead of being eliminated, the B46 could have been rerouted over the B2 route to Kings Highway Station at no additional cost.

 

 

At this point, I think it is better to cut the (B2) completely and replace it with a new Avenue P route (B5), with some short turns at Kings Hwy Station. This route would be multi-purpose, serving Avenue P, connecting to Bath Beach & connecting to the Kings Highway ( & station.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

He said "Without access to 86th street which is the main artery that route serves".

 

I took that to mean that it spent a lot of time on 86th Street, as in it's primary purpose was to serve the street (the same way the primary purpose of the B68 is to serve CI Avenue), and because it spend a decent amount of time on 86th Street. I was saying that the reason it got decent ridership wasn't just because it served 86th Street, but that specific part of 86th Street between Fort Hamilton Parkway and 4th Avenue.

 

So I thought he was saying that it should go back to 86th Street no matter what. I would prefer that it serve Cropsey Avenue and come up to 4th & 86th that way, and it would still get decent ridership because it would connect CI to Bay Ridge, and stop in the two commercial areas of those neighborhoods.

 

Well just so you're not confused further, there was no need to do anything to the B64. It was fine the way it was. The swap that it did with the B1 was completely unnecessary and like the B4, it should return to its previous route. The end.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well just so you're not confused further, there was no need to do anything to the B64. It was fine the way it was. The swap that it did with the B1 was completely unnecessary and like the B4, it should return to its previous route. The end.

 

No, the B1 is better off as a through-86th Street route. Even BrooklynBus thinks so. The question is what to do with the B64. As he said, you could reroute it via Cropsey Avenue so people along Bath Avenue get easy access to the VA Hospital and still keep their subway connection. Bay Ridge Avenue and 13th Avenue get covered by other routes. The end.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, the B1 is better off as a through-86th Street route. Even BrooklynBus thinks so. The question is what to do with the B64. As he said, you could reroute it via Cropsey Avenue so people along Bath Avenue get easy access to the VA Hospital and still keep their subway connection. Bay Ridge Avenue and 13th Avenue get covered by other routes. The end.

 

Well good for him, but I still disagree. All these suggestions are pointless because you've cut off access from Bay Ridge to Coney Island and that was one main purpose of the B64. They're trying to push folks to the B82 and this way forces folks over to that stupid line. They love it but anytime I've considered waiting for it, it takes forever to show up.

[checkmatechamp13]

Well good for him, but I still disagree. All these suggestions are pointless because you've cut off access from Bay Ridge to Coney Island and that was one main purpose of the B64. They're trying to push folks to the B82 and this way forces folks over to that stupid line. They love it but anytime I've considered waiting for it, it takes forever to show up.

 

Who said anything about cutting off access from CI to Bay Ridge? It would still go there, just through a slightly different route (Cropsey Avenue instead of 86th Street like it used to).