S78 via Hylan Posted March 23, 2012 Share #201 Posted March 23, 2012 I'm sorry but there is no need to extend the B1 to Staten Island. Period. Don't worry about it. I was getting annoyed with all the arguing on the B36/B64/B74 crap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2012 Share #202 Posted March 28, 2012 Rather than critique Threxx's latest update on he would do things.... This is pretty much how I would restructure things in SW Brooklyn.... {any route not mentioned = no changes... on the SW brooklyn end anyway} B2: Kings Plaza to Xaverian HS [shore rd/mackay pl] (via Av. R, via av P, via 65th st) B3: 25th av to Bergen Beach [veterans/E. 71st] (via Av U) B4: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Sheepshead Bay [knapp/voorhies] (via 86th st, shell rd, av. Z, via current B4 routing south of ocean/av z) B5: Bay Ridge [narrows/77th] to Coney Island [stillwell/surf] (via bay ridge pkwy, stillwell, 25th av, cropsey) B16: Shore rd/4th av to parkside av (via ft. hamilton pkwy) B23: 86th/Ft. Hamilton pkwy. to Canarsie [flatlands/E. 96th] (via 86th st, via 13th/14th avs, via cortelyou, via av. D, via foster) B50: Coney Island av/Quentin rd. to Starrett city [seaview/penn.] (via kings hwy [to Av. K]), via flatlands) B64: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Mermaid bus loop/terminal (via VA hospital, via bath, via stillwell) B70: Shore rd/4th av to Sunset park [39th/1st] (via 3rd av, bay ridge av, 8th av) B100: Mill Basin to Caesars Bay shopping ctr. (via fillmore, via kings hwy, via bay pkwy [to end of road;]) so I'd have the.... - B1, 4, 64, and the SI buses terminating at 86th/4th.... - B2 & B9 having common terminals on both ends (at Kings plz. & at Xaverian) - B16, 63, 70 terminating down at shore rd/4th av - B64, 68, 74 terminating inside mermaid bus loop, and the B5 terminating just off the corner of stillwell/surf (like the 82 used to) - B31 (all times) & B2 (part time) terminating at kings hwy ... (B100's would have no short turns).... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2012 Share #203 Posted March 28, 2012 ^^ lol.... that should read B/Q... since the edit time is up.... I was also gonna mention... other notables: * B5 takes the place of the B4 along bay ridge pkwy.... * B82 is eliminated; split between the B50 & B100 * B7 no longer serves that part of brooklyn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 28, 2012 Share #204 Posted March 28, 2012 ^^ lol.... that should read B/Q... since the edit time is up.... I was also gonna mention... other notables: * B5 takes the place of the B4 along bay ridge pkwy.... * B82 is eliminated; split between the B50 & B100 * B7 no longer serves that part of brooklyn LOLOL... eliminate the B82... no one in Canarsie will be happy about that. Now this isn't just S.W. Brooklyn anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 28, 2012 Share #205 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Replies in red! I see you removed the B33. I know about the terminal situation. The B1 & B4 will go to the current B4 terminal in Bay Ridge. I didn't completely remove the B33. Here is the complete plans from everybody: (Me, ConeyIslandAve7, & B35 via Church ideas, some modified.) B1: New Bay Ridge Terminal (86th & 4th) to Manhattan Beach, Kingsboro CC. B2: Rerouted onto Avenue P b/w Flatbush Avenue & Kings Hwy. Kings Plaza Terminal-Coney Island (Via Avenue P, Bay Parkway & Cropsey Avenue) B3: No change. B4: B35's plan: B4: New Bay Ridge Terminal (86th & 4th) to Sheepshead Bay (Knapp/Voorhies). (Via 86th St, Avenue Z, Shell Road) B5: Kings Plaza Terminal-Current B4 Bay Ridge Terminal. (Via Avenue P & 86th Street) B6: No Change. B8: No Change. B10: Prospect Park Station-New Bay Ridge Terminal (86th & 4th) via 13 & 14 Avenues B16: Prospect Park Station-Bay Ridge-Shore Road via Fort Hamilton Parkway (B10, 16, 19 are companion routes, like B67/69) B19: Prospect Park Station-Sunset Park-55 St via 13, 14 Avenues & 65 Street.N B31: No Change. B33: Sheepshead Bay (Knapp/Voohries) to Current B4 Bay Ridge terminal. (Via Bay Ridge Parkway, Avenue X, and Shell Road.) B64: New Bay Ridge Terminal (86th & 4th) to Coney Island Terminal Loop. B70: Shore Road/4th Avenue to Sunset Park (39th/1st). (Via 3rd & 8th Avenue & Bay Ridge Parkway) B76: ConeyIslandAve7's plan. S53, 79, 93: New Terminal at 86 Street & Shore Road, to avoid crowding at New Bay Ridge Terminal. That's it. I took some of you guy's ideas. Hope you like? The name of this thread should be change to: "Official South Brooklyn Discussion" Edited March 28, 2012 by ThrexxBus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 28, 2012 Share #206 Posted March 28, 2012 B64: New Bay Ridge Terminal (86th & 4th) to Coney Island Terminal Loop. S53, 79, 93: New Terminal at 86 Street & Shore Road, to avoid crowding at New Bay Ridge Terminal. What would be the routing for the B64 (would it go via Cropsey Avenue or 86th Street?) For the amount of effort you're taking to send the S53/79/93 to 86th & Shore Road, you might as well send it up 4th Avenue to 59th Street so SI riders have a direct connection to the (believe me, it's really annoying to see the pull out the instant the pulls into 59th Street) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2012 Share #207 Posted March 28, 2012 LOLOL... eliminate the B82... no one in Canarsie will be happy about that. Now this isn't just S.W. Brooklyn anymore. Yeah right... If service is a] enhanced & b] curtailed to where the bulk of the (current B82's) riders are taking it to & from (which was the routing of the 50 b/w CI/Quentin & Starrett city), then there is no way in hell would there be folks in Canarsie that wouldn't be happy about that.... The B82 caused just as much problems than it solved; ask some former B50 rider that currently has to take the B82.... I'll even go as far as to say that the creation of the B82 shifted more riders to taking the B6; totally changing some folks' commuting patterns (yeh, that's not SW Brooklyn, but I'm still bringing it up since your point of contention is regarding Canarsie riders....) Like I already told Shortline numerous times, Spring Creek & Canarsie patrons aren't riding it out westward the brighton in significant enough numbers... if that were the case, B82's would be far more jammed than they tend to currently get at times..... AFAIC, the result that yielded the B82 boiled down to the MTA having to come up w/ some solution to addressing the duplication issue the B5, 7, and 50 had b/w the brighton line & flatbush av.... sure, another secondary issue had to do w/ the terminal situation @ flatbush av (with the turnaround scenario & what not).... So they took a route that had the ridership & merged it with the route that well, didn't..... same thing they did w/ the B13 (the rendition b/w williamsburg & gateway mall), the current B43, the current B47.... all cost cutting measures.... anyway, regarding the B82.... Like I said before, those folks on the more western portion of the route benefitted more than those on the more eastern portion of the route (this includes canarsie)...... ....While the B7 was left untouched. They really need to figure out what to do w/ that route..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2012 Share #208 Posted March 28, 2012 What would be the routing for the B64 (would it go via Cropsey Avenue or 86th Street?) For the amount of effort you're taking to send the S53/79/93 to 86th & Shore Road, you might as well send it up 4th Avenue to 59th Street so SI riders have a direct connection to the (believe me, it's really annoying to see the ® pull out the instant the pulls into 59th Street) 1) That's the same question I had upon reading that post of his.... 2) heh.... remember when the S53 used to terminate @ 95th st..... how did that work out? Regardless, I don't agree with any plan that involves removing the S53, S93, & S79 from terminating at 86th/4th on the Brooklyn end.... not moving it to 86th/shore rd (despite the uproar that would emanate from residents in that part of the community), nor sending it to 59th st subway (although I get why you brought it up - In comparison to his thoughts about moving those routes.... thing is, it's still a about [if not more than a] mile long extension) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted March 28, 2012 Share #209 Posted March 28, 2012 Rather than critique Threxx's latest update on he would do things.... This is pretty much how I would restructure things in SW Brooklyn.... {any route not mentioned = no changes... on the SW brooklyn end anyway} B2: Kings Plaza to Xaverian HS [shore rd/mackay pl] (via Av. R, via av P, via 65th st) B3: 25th av to Bergen Beach [veterans/E. 71st] (via Av U) B4: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Sheepshead Bay [knapp/voorhies] (via 86th st, shell rd, av. Z, via current B4 routing south of ocean/av z) B5: Bay Ridge [narrows/77th] to Coney Island [stillwell/surf] (via bay ridge pkwy, stillwell, 25th av, cropsey) B16: Shore rd/4th av to parkside av (via ft. hamilton pkwy) B23: 86th/Ft. Hamilton pkwy. to Canarsie [flatlands/E. 96th] (via 86th st, via 13th/14th avs, via cortelyou, via av. D, via foster) B50: Coney Island av/Quentin rd. to Starrett city [seaview/penn.] (via kings hwy [to Av. K]), via flatlands) B64: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Mermaid bus loop/terminal (via VA hospital, via bath, via stillwell) B70: Shore rd/4th av to Sunset park [39th/1st] (via 3rd av, bay ridge av, 8th av) B100: Mill Basin to Caesars Bay shopping ctr. (via fillmore, via kings hwy, via bay pkwy [to end of road;]) so I'd have the.... - B1, 4, 64, and the SI buses terminating at 86th/4th.... - B2 & B9 having common terminals on both ends (at Kings plz. & at Xaverian) - B16, 63, 70 terminating down at shore rd/4th av - B64, 68, 74 terminating inside mermaid bus loop, and the B5 terminating just off the corner of stillwell/surf (like the 82 used to) - B31 (all times) & B2 (part time) terminating at kings hwy ( B)... (B100's would have no short turns).... Generally, I like it. You seem to have incorporated some of my ideas. Especially like breaking up the B82 and what you've done with the B100. I have only a few suggestions. I'd switch the names of the B4 and 5 making the 4 the 5 and the 5 the 4. I'd terminate the 23 at the VA Hospital since you don't want it to go to 4th and 86tj because of the congestion there. I'd run the 2 on 65th street as a limited stop, stoping every other avenue since the B9 provides local service a few blocks away and it would keep down costs, and since there currently is no service on 65th Street, no one would protest elimination of any stops. I'd hook the B23 up with the B42 with alternate buses going through although Canarsie would probably just want to leave the B42 as is. The only thing you didn't address was a route on Shore Road to the N train which I think would be a hit since it eliminates a change from the R. I would extend the 2 or 9 to 101st Street and cutback the 16 to 86th and Shore if you don't want to extend the B1 to Shore. You don't specify how you would make the transition from 65th Street to Bay Ridge Avenue, A bus driver once told me that a right from 13th to Bay Ridge Avenue would be very difficult. That would mean that service would have to be moved from Bay Ridge Avenue to 65th Street for a few blocks, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 28, 2012 Share #210 Posted March 28, 2012 1) That's the same question I had upon reading that post of his.... 2) heh.... remember when the S53 used to terminate @ 95th st..... how did that work out? Regardless, I don't agree with any plan that involves removing the S53, S93, & S79 from terminating at 86th/4th on the Brooklyn end.... not moving it to 86th/shore rd (despite the uproar that would emanate from residents in that part of the community), nor sending it to 59th st subway (although I get why you brought it up - In comparison to his thoughts about moving those routes.... thing is, it's still a about [if not more than a] mile long extension) OK. The Staten Island buses will stay where they are. They really do need to do something with the B7, though. New B82 idea: B82: KIngs Plaza-Starret City via Flatlands Avenue. B31 extended to replace B82 to Coney Island. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 28, 2012 Share #211 Posted March 28, 2012 What would be the routing for the B64 (would it go via Cropsey Avenue or 86th Street?) For the amount of effort you're taking to send the S53/79/93 to 86th & Shore Road, you might as well send it up 4th Avenue to 59th Street so SI riders have a direct connection to the (believe me, it's really annoying to see the ® pull out the instant the pulls into 59th Street) The 64 would use it's old routing to Coney Island (via Stillwell Avenue) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted March 28, 2012 Share #212 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) So they took a route that had the ridership & merged it with the route that well, didn't..... same thing they did w/ the B13 (the rendition b/w williamsburg & gateway mall), the current B43, the current B47.... all cost cutting measures.... anyway, regarding the B82.... Like I said before, those folks on the more western portion of the route benefitted more than those on the more eastern portion of the route (this includes canarsie)...... Couldn't they short-turn some buses at East 16th Street if Canarsie warrants that much more service? heh.... remember when the S53 used to terminate @ 95th st..... how did that work out? Regardless, I don't agree with any plan that involves removing the S53, S93, & S79 from terminating at 86th/4th on the Brooklyn end.... not moving it to 86th/shore rd (despite the uproar that would emanate from residents in that part of the community), nor sending it to 59th st subway (although I get why you brought it up - In comparison to his thoughts about moving those routes.... thing is, it's still a about [if not more than a] mile long extension) Well, I don't really think it should be extended either, but I was just throwing it out there that if he's going to extend the routes for the sake of layover space, he might as well do it somewhere useful. I highly doubt any SI residents are going out to that part of Bay Ridge (and for the few that are, there's always the B16) Edited March 28, 2012 by checkmatechamp13 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2012 Share #213 Posted March 28, 2012 Generally, I like it. You seem to have incorporated some of my ideas. Especially like breaking up the B82 and what you've done with the B100. I have only a few suggestions. I'd switch the names of the B4 and 5 making the 4 the 5 and the 5 the 4. I'd terminate the 23 at the VA Hospital since you don't want it to go to 4th and 86th because of the congestion there. I'd run the 2 on 65th street as a limited stop, stoping every other avenue since the B9 provides local service a few blocks away and it would keep down costs, and since there currently is no service on 65th Street, no one would protest elimination of any stops. I'd hook the B23 up with the B42 with alternate buses going through although Canarsie would probably just want to leave the B42 as is. The only thing you didn't address was a route on Shore Road to the N train which I think would be a hit since it eliminates a change from the R. I would extend the 2 or 9 to 101st Street and cutback the 16 to 86th and Shore if you don't want to extend the B1 to Shore. You don't specify how you would make the transition from 65th Street to Bay Ridge Avenue, A bus driver once told me that a right from 13th to Bay Ridge Avenue would be very difficult. That would mean that service would have to be moved from Bay Ridge Avenue to 65th Street for a few blocks Thanks for the compliment & your commentary. We've had enough discussions about the B82, so I think you know how I always felt about the route.... - As for the the B100... that route, I feel, ends abruptly... instead of it turning off on E. 16th to terminate, that is the route I would have serving kings highway (west).... between the B2/31/100, the B31 of the three should be left alone - unlike country club up in the bronx, gerritsen riders actually USE their route ! - The swapping of the 4 & 5 nomenclatures... hmm, I see what you're gettin at with that.... - Yep, the 23 ending at VA Hospital was the only other option I considered for that end of the route... but since I have the 8 & the 64 going there, I didn't want to have three routes serving the hospital (one reason I moved the 70 from there)..... don't think that little space can handle but so many buses, unless I have one of the routes not stopping inside the pickup/dropoff area there..... - Your B2 LTD point is something to consider.... - Yeh, the B42 I'd leave alone.... Although I did think about ending the 23 somewhere along rockaway pkwy (around av K or L...), but that would be too arbitrary... folks would most likely gun for that 42 anyway...... - I wouldn't have any local route panning the length of shore road... But if I were to do what you're suggesting, I'd just alternate the B70 b/w serving 3rd av & shore road, since I have that ending down on shore/4th/101st anyway.... The B9 is slow enough as it is... IIRC, I think you truncated it to flatbush (correct me if that's not accurate)..... Me, I would leave it serving kings plz.... I wouldn't have the (already extended) B2, extended from xaverian down to 101st - even if I were to consider running the B2 the way you suggested (as a ltd along 65th)..... As for the last question/concern, yeh, that's what I have the B2 doing (from 65th, to 13th, to bay ridge av).... I didn't think that turn was as tough as the b/o you spoke to describes it as..... Guess I'll have to scour the area to see if the turn is manageable or not (just like I did with seeing if a bus could possibly manage the turn/loop where bay pkwy ends [referring to the 100 idea])..... an on-site "case study" if you will.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 28, 2012 Share #214 Posted March 28, 2012 Couldn't they short-turn some buses at East 16th Street if Canarsie warrants that much more service? They'd rather short turn B82's at 25th/cropsey instead of short turning them at CI av/Quentin b/c that would do nothin more than further show & prove how wrong they were for creating the B82 in the first place...... That, and facilitating canarsie riders like that would come at the expense of riders west of the brighton (west of CI av really)..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted March 29, 2012 Share #215 Posted March 29, 2012 - The swapping of the 4 & 5 nomenclatures... hmm, I see what you're gettin at with that.... Not sure if you realize it but you are proposing to return the B4 to its pre-1978 route but extending it from Ulmer Park to Coney Island. What I proposed for the B4 in 1978 was to extend it straight along Stillwell to Coney Island and then turn it east, but the MTA wanted it to go around the other side of Coney Island Yards via 86th Street. Not sure what the advantage of using 25th and Cropsey is over straight on Stillwell if the B64 is brought back to Coney Island too. ...since I have the 8 & the 64 going there, I didn't want to have three routes serving the hospital (one reason I moved the 70 from there)..... don't think that little space can handle but so many buses, unless I have one of the routes not stopping inside the pickup/dropoff area there..... Didn't realize you moved the B70 away from the VA. Don't know if I like that. Don't see anything wrong with three bus routes serving the VA Hospital. (CI Hospital has three.) Don't forget Victory Memorial is still operating as an emergency facility under another name and there is also Poly Prep. If the space can't handle all the buses, there is no reason why through routes like the B64 need to enter the VA property. It's just a short walk inside. - Yeh, the B42 I'd leave alone.... Although I did think about ending the 23 somewhere along rockaway pkwy (around av K or L...), but that would be too arbitrary... folks would most likely gun for that 42 anyway...... They would take whatever comes first if their destination is the L train, unless they need the extra bus transfer. Extending it to K or L makes the route much more useful and is more expensive than combining the routes. - I wouldn't have any local route panning the length of shore road... But if I were to do what you're suggesting, I'd just alternate the B70 b/w serving 3rd av & shore road, since I have that ending down on shore/4th/101st anyway.... The B9 is slow enough as it is... IIRC, I think you truncated it to flatbush (correct me if that's not accurate)..... Me, I would leave it serving kings plz.... I wouldn't have the (already extended) B2, extended from xaverian down to 101st - even if I were to consider running the B2 the way you suggested (as a ltd along 65th).......... I think Shore Road needs the service and that most would prefer a bus to the 59th Street Station rather than 86th Street and getting there wouldn't take any longer. If you think extending the B2 or B9 would make them too long think about a terminal at Maimonides or 62 St and New Utrecht. and shortening the the proposed B2 extension. Don't think there is enough service on the B70 to alternate buses. As for the last question/concern, yeh, that's what I have the B2 doing (from 65th, to 13th, to bay ridge av).... I didn't think that turn was as tough as the b/o you spoke to describes it as..... Guess I'll have to scour the area to see if the turn is manageable or not (just like I did with seeing if a bus could possibly manage the turn/loop where bay pkwy ends [referring to the 100 idea])..... an on-site "case study" if you will.... I think the turn could be made with a recessed stop line if the cars would listen and it would still be with great difficulty. The bus would have to swing out to the left and go into opposing traffic before returning. The left turn poses no problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted March 29, 2012 Share #216 Posted March 29, 2012 B35=This is pretty much how I would restructure things in SW Brooklyn.... {any route not mentioned = no changes... on the SW brooklyn end anyway} B2: Kings Plaza to Xaverian HS [shore rd/mackay pl] (via Av. R, via av P, via 65th st) Not a bad idea. I think extending the B31 to Xaverian makes more sense connecting more of Gerristean. B3: 25th av to Bergen Beach [veterans/E. 71st] (via Av U) I would restore some peak hour "B3" starting/ending at East 16th & "U" station. B4: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Sheepshead Bay [knapp/voorhies] (via 86th st, shell rd, av. Z, via current B4 routing south of ocean/av z) I don't think 86th Street needs '2' full length routes along entire length of that busy road since it can get congested. Keep it on Bay Ridge Parkway and terminate at 86th/4th via 3rd Avenue. And late evenings between 11pm-1am run it only between Sheapshead Station and 86th/4th. B5: Bay Ridge [narrows/77th] to Coney Island [stillwell/surf] (via bay ridge pkwy, stillwell, 25th av, cropsey) Basically a semi return of the old "B4" route that ran between 25th Ave/Cropsey and Narrows/77th. With that read my comments on the B4. B16: Shore rd/4th av to parkside av (via ft. hamilton pkwy) Agree 1,000%. It's a shame that currently only the "B11" serves Maimonides. Plus it would improve realbility and even the use of less buses. B23: 86th/Ft. Hamilton pkwy. to Canarsie [flatlands/E. 96th] (via 86th st, via 13th/14th avs, via cortelyou, via av. D, via foster) See you trying to create a new route to relieve overcrowding on the "B8" and "B35." I don't it needs to go to Canarsie but instead have it terminate at Utica Ave. If ridership picks up then maybe an extension later. Plus playing devil's adovcate it parells the "B8" too much. B50: Coney Island av/Quentin rd. to Starrett city [seaview/penn.] (via kings hwy [to Av. K]), via flatlands) I still think there a market to go to Gateway Mall or even Elderts Lane(Brooklyn Postal Facility). The MTA even listed in an intial study listed a B82 SBS route between Gateway/Elderts Lane and Caser's Bay. With that said, I would run this "B50" between Gateway and CI Ave/Quentin. While keeping a "B82" between Stillwell Terminal and Rockaway Pwy "L" station. And yes i seen a few riders go from Eastern Brooklyn-Bensonhurst on the B82. Just have to agree to disagree Bro(B35). B64: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Mermaid bus loop/terminal (via VA hospital, via bath, via stillwell) How about a wild card and merge the B64 with the B70? It would link Sunset Park (aka so called Brooklyn's new "Chinatown)Dyker Heights and Bensonhurst which would be a great alternative especially during GO's to the "N" and "D" lines. B70: Shore rd/4th av to Sunset park [39th/1st] (via 3rd av, bay ridge av, 8th av) Read my B64 comments. B100: Mill Basin to Caesars Bay shopping ctr. (via fillmore, via kings hwy, via bay pkwy [to end of road;]) I keep the B100 as it. I would re-route the line to run via Quentin, Grestien, Fillmore, Flatbush, Ave U, East 66th to current terminal and can the "B2." The B31 is the one that should be extended IMO to either Caser's Bay or even to Bay Ridge. Aso I'd have the.... - B1, 4, 64, and the SI buses terminating at 86th/4th.... - B2 & B9 having common terminals on both ends (at Kings plz. & at Xaverian) - B16, 63, 70 terminating down at shore rd/4th av - B64, 68, 74 terminating inside mermaid bus loop, and the B5 terminating just off the corner of stillwell/surf (like the 82 used to) - B31 (all times) & B2 (part time) terminating at kings hwy ( B)... (B100's would have no short turns).... B35. The B31 does not need owl service between 2-5am. And what about restoring full time "B8" service to 95th/4th station bro? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted March 29, 2012 Share #217 Posted March 29, 2012 I think the B31 could be extended instead of the B2 if the B2 and B100 were combined into a single route. I proposed a B81 limited or SBS that in essence would be a B82 not making all stops and going to Gateway instead of Spring Creek Towers. That would still be possible even if the B82 stops operating as we know it. I like B35's idea of two routes on 86th Street. It doesn't necessarily have to mean more buses on 86th Street. About half the B1s could terminate at 18th Avenue and more at 25th Avenue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2012 Share #218 Posted March 29, 2012 Not sure if you realize it but you are proposing to return the B4 to its pre-1978 route but extending it from Ulmer Park to Coney Island. What I proposed for the B4 in 1978 was to extend it straight along Stillwell to Coney Island and then turn it east, but the MTA wanted it to go around the other side of Coney Island Yards via 86th Street. Not sure what the advantage of using 25th and Cropsey is over straight on Stillwell if the B64 is brought back to Coney Island too. Not sure what you're alluding to in that last sentence.... but nonetheless, the B5 I thought up came as a result of having moved the B4 along 86th st & breaking up the 82 the way I did..... of course there's a need for service along bay ridge pkwy, and I do think folks along 25th av & along cropsey (b/w 25th av & the pathmark) need *some* sort of bus service.... I also feel as if folks along that same section of cropsey shouldn't have to be subjected to riding a bus out to bay pkwy subway station if they need the D..... Didn't realize you moved the B70 away from the VA. Don't know if I like that. Don't see anything wrong with three bus routes serving the VA Hospital. (CI Hospital has three.) Don't forget Victory Memorial is still operating as an emergency facility under another name and there is also Poly Prep. If the space can't handle all the buses, there is no reason why through routes like the B64 need to enter the VA property. It's just a short walk inside. first point: Well I wouldn't have the B64 & the B70 serving that same stretch b/w VA hospital & 5th av... if that's the case, I may as well combine the two routes (which I simply don't agree with).... I'd rather send the bath av route to 86th/4th over serving the areas that the 70 does..... second point: My concern wasn't it simply being 3 routes total (hell, woodhull also fits that criteria... with 2 routes to spare), as much as it was 3 routes fitting inside that waiting area.... Regardless, Point taken. They would take whatever comes first if their destination is the L train, unless they need the extra bus transfer. Extending it to K or L makes the route much more useful and is more expensive than combining the routes. Instead of sending it down to Av K or L, I thought better of it & just left it as panning no further south than flatlands.... May as well let/leave the B42 handle rockaway pkwy.... At least you didn't suggest that I combine it w/ the B42..... On top of serving Canarsie plaza, having the B23 serve that snippet of Canarsie (the neighborhood) was basically an attempt to address a gap b/w the B8 & the B6/82..... such an addition I think will take riders off B6's/B82's (after having xferred off 47's) if they need the L or whatever..... I think Shore Road needs the service and that most would prefer a bus to the 59th Street Station rather than 86th Street and getting there wouldn't take any longer. If you think extending the B2 or B9 would make them too long think about a terminal at Maimonides or 62 St and New Utrecht. and shortening the the proposed B2 extension. Don't think there is enough service on the B70 to alternate buses. I'm not so sure that they do.... we'll just have to differ on this one. I think the turn could be made with a recessed stop line if the cars would listen and it would still be with great difficulty. The bus would have to swing out to the left and go into opposing traffic before returning. The left turn poses no problem. Noted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 29, 2012 Share #219 Posted March 29, 2012 Rather than critique Threxx's latest update on he would do things.... This is pretty much how I would restructure things in SW Brooklyn.... {any route not mentioned = no changes... on the SW brooklyn end anyway} B2: Kings Plaza to Xaverian HS [shore rd/mackay pl] (via Av. R, via av P, via 65th st) B3: 25th av to Bergen Beach [veterans/E. 71st] (via Av U) B4: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Sheepshead Bay [knapp/voorhies] (via 86th st, shell rd, av. Z, via current B4 routing south of ocean/av z) B5: Bay Ridge [narrows/77th] to Coney Island [stillwell/surf] (via bay ridge pkwy, stillwell, 25th av, cropsey) B16: Shore rd/4th av to parkside av (via ft. hamilton pkwy) B23: 86th/Ft. Hamilton pkwy. to Canarsie [flatlands/E. 96th] (via 86th st, via 13th/14th avs, via cortelyou, via av. D, via foster) B50: Coney Island av/Quentin rd. to Starrett city [seaview/penn.] (via kings hwy [to Av. K]), via flatlands) B64: Bay Ridge [86th/4th] to Mermaid bus loop/terminal (via VA hospital, via bath, via stillwell) B70: Shore rd/4th av to Sunset park [39th/1st] (via 3rd av, bay ridge av, 8th av) B100: Mill Basin to Caesars Bay shopping ctr. (via fillmore, via kings hwy, via bay pkwy [to end of road;]) so I'd have the.... - B1, 4, 64, and the SI buses terminating at 86th/4th.... - B2 & B9 having common terminals on both ends (at Kings plz. & at Xaverian) - B16, 63, 70 terminating down at shore rd/4th av - B64, 68, 74 terminating inside mermaid bus loop, and the B5 terminating just off the corner of stillwell/surf (like the 82 used to) - B31 (all times) & B2 (part time) terminating at kings hwy (B ... (B100's would have no short turns).... B2: Ok. B3: Ok. B4 & 5: As Brooklyn Bus said, switching the numbers there makes sense. B16: What is wrong with Prospect Park? People actually use that segment. B23: Ok, but i'd terminate in the Rockaway Parkway Bus Terminal. B50: Ok. B64: Fine. 86th St is a better routing though... B70: The B70 has to go to VA. The best thing to do is to run the B8 with no short turns to 95 St, and have it stop outside complex. B100: Lol, no. The B100 is an important feeder. The best thing to do there is to reroute to Kings Plaza. I wouldn't can the B2. As I said before, I would combine the B2 with another route to serve Avenue P. I'd renumber the B5 to B33 and make the B5 the B2's companion route. The B5 would go to Bay Ridge and the B2 would go to Coney Island via Cropsey Avenue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2012 Share #220 Posted March 29, 2012 - B31 (all times) & B2 (part time) terminating at kings hwy (B/Q)... (B100's would have no short turns).... The B31 does not need owl service between 2-5am. And what about restoring full time "B8" service to 95th/4th station bro? I figured someone would misconstrue that.... Guess I'll clarify. When I said "all times" regarding the B31, I meant all B31's would terminate at kings hwy (B/Q).... It had nothin to do w/ the span of the route...... B2: Not a bad idea. I think extending the B31 to Xaverian makes more sense connecting more of Gerristean. B3: I would restore some peak hour "B3" starting/ending at East 16th & "U" station. B4: I don't think 86th Street needs '2' full length routes along entire length of that busy road since it can get congested. Keep it on Bay Ridge Parkway and terminate at 86th/4th via 3rd Avenue. And late evenings between 11pm-1am run it only between Sheapshead Station and 86th/4th. B5: Basically a semi return of the old "B4" route that ran between 25th Ave/Cropsey and Narrows/77th. With that read my comments on the B4. B16: Agree 1,000%. It's a shame that currently only the "B11" serves Maimonides. Plus it would improve realbility and even the use of less buses. B23: See you trying to create a new route to relieve overcrowding on the "B8" and "B35." I don't it needs to go to Canarsie but instead have it terminate at Utica Ave. If ridership picks up then maybe an extension later. Plus playing devil's adovcate it parells the "B8" too much. B50: I still think there a market to go to Gateway Mall or even Elderts Lane(Brooklyn Postal Facility). The MTA even listed in an intial study listed a B82 SBS route between Gateway/Elderts Lane and Caser's Bay. With that said, I would run this "B50" between Gateway and CI Ave/Quentin. While keeping a "B82" between Stillwell Terminal and Rockaway Pwy "L" station. And yes i seen a few riders go from Eastern Brooklyn-Bensonhurst on the B82. Just have to agree to disagree Bro(B35). B64/70: How about a wild card and merge the B64 with the B70? It would link Sunset Park (aka so called Brooklyn's new "Chinatown) Dyker Heights and Bensonhurst which would be a great alternative especially during GO's to the "N" and "D" lines. B100: I keep the B100 as it. I would re-route the line to run via Quentin, Grestien, Fillmore, Flatbush, Ave U, East 66th to current terminal and can the "B2." The B31 is the one that should be extended IMO to either Caser's Bay or even to Bay Ridge. Thanks for the reply, bro B2/B100 - I guess we'd do things differently then.... I just can't c/s extending the 31 just so the 2 can be killed..... B3 - how exactly would that work? B4 - that was similar to an old idea I had... where I said instead of it ending on narrows, it can be extended down 4th av to 86th.... 86th st may not need 2 routes, but I do think a route b/w sheepshead bay (the neighborhood, not just the subway station) & bay ridge across 86th st would flourish - even if they unfortunately would be subjected to the traffic under the subway.... I mean, moreso than extending the current B4 to 86th/4th & truncating it at sheepshead bay subway..... B16 - you're right, I always found the 16 to be very unreliable.... well, at least the one positive is that it does tend to hook up w/ the B35 at that stop over there on 14th/39th.... B23 - to some extent, yes (about relieving crowding on the B35 & helping out the sometimey B8 [esp. during the pm hrs]).... but those weren't the main reasons I thought up the route.... Having it stop dead at utica would be an idea for a short turn, I suppose.... As far as service past utica av, see what I said to BrooklynBus about why I'd have such a route serving canarsie..... B50 - Oh, I agree there's a market.... I just don't agree with having both routes in starrett city run to gateway... B64/70 - I think Bath av should have its own route & that section of sunset park/dyker hgts should have its own route.... I never liked the idea of combining those two routes (the bath av route having to be subjected to the street notorious for double parking / hangups that is 8th av.... dam MCI's & jitneys think they own the road.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2012 Share #221 Posted March 29, 2012 New B82 idea: B82: KIngs Plaza-Starret City via Flatlands Avenue. B31 extended to replace B82 to Coney Island. B31 - that's basically one big ole unnecessary 'U' shaped route created for no other reason at all than to simply send the B31 *somewhere*..... B82 - pointless.... you don't want the B7 being the only route b/w flatbush av & ocean av along kings hwy.... B2: Ok. B3: Ok. B4 & 5: As Brooklyn Bus said, switching the numbers there makes sense. B16: What is wrong with Prospect Park? People actually use that segment. B23: Ok, but i'd terminate in the Rockaway Parkway Bus Terminal. B50: Ok. B64: Fine. 86th St is a better routing though... B70: The B70 has to go to VA. The best thing to do is to run the B8 with no short turns to 95 St, and have it stop outside complex. B100: Lol, no. The B100 is an important feeder. The best thing to do there is to reroute to Kings Plaza. I wouldn't can the B2. As I said before, I would combine the B2 with another route to serve Avenue P. I'd renumber the B5 to B33 and make the B5 the B2's companion route. The B5 would go to Bay Ridge and the B2 would go to Coney Island via Cropsey Avenue. real quick... B16: not enough if you ask me, especially panning towards prospect park.... B23: ideally, yeah.... but there's no space for that.... B64: as long as it serves 86th/4th.... B70: and why is that.... B100: So is the B2, but you would combine it with another route..... lol... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 29, 2012 Share #222 Posted March 29, 2012 B31 - that's basically one big ole unnecessary 'U' shaped route created for no other reason at all than to simply send the B31 *somewhere*..... B82 - pointless.... you don't want the B7 being the only route b/w flatbush av & ocean av along kings hwy.... real quick... B16: not enough if you ask me, especially panning towards prospect park.... B23: ideally, yeah.... but there's no space for that.... B64: as long as it serves 86th/4th.... B70: and why is that.... B100: So is the B2, but you would combine it with another route..... lol... B16: Actually, enough, because B16's sometimes came with almost all the seats filled on mornings. B23: There is enough space, I am there often. B64: Ok... B70: If that leg wasn't so important, the B70 would have been truncated at Shore Road a long time ago. B100: The B100 is actually used. The B2 is not. Either the B2 gets combined, or it goes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2012 Share #223 Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) You know I was spot on with that..... Throwing those 2 ideas out of left field with no real thought or backing behind them whatsoever..... B16: Actually, enough, because B16's sometimes came with almost all the seats filled on mornings. B23: There is enough space, I am there often. B64: Ok... B70: If that leg wasn't so important, the B70 would have been truncated at Shore Road a long time ago. B100: The B100 is actually used. The B2 is not. Either the B2 gets combined, or it goes. B16 - towards prospect park in the morning ? now that's just not true... those buses damn near empty out at church av subway.... Whatever amt. of folks you do see waiting for 16's heading towards bay ridge, mainly come off 43's, or the subway... If you do see a considerable crowd of folks waitin for the 16, it's b/c buses are late; which is rather common on that route... and the one thing I can't stand on top of it, is that some b/o's tend to crawl the route.... I really want to know their reason for extending it from parkside..... B23 - I'm not gonna argue with you on this one any further... with as many B6's & 82's that circle in & out of there, you aint terminating no other route inside there... why do you think they have buses layover on glenwood b/w E 96th & rockaway pkwy. (opposite the bus stops).... those buses that layover inside the loop itself doesn't help the cause either.... ....and forget about having some other route run inside the lane that the B42 does..... B70 - yeah well, still not convinced that this route "has" to go to VA Hosp..... You can have other routes serve the hospital.... B100 - The B2 is not used? Now I know you don't know what you're talking about here.... Tell those Marine Park residents that disembark that route @ the subway station in the morning & embark on them in the late pm hours that the route is not used..... those bad boys easily leave SRO, sometimed packed to the gills... Edited March 29, 2012 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted March 29, 2012 Share #224 Posted March 29, 2012 You know I was spot on with that..... Throwing those 2 ideas out of left field with no real thought or backing behind them whatsoever..... B16 - towards prospect park in the morning ? now that's just not true... those buses damn near empty out at church av subway.... Whatever amt. of folks you do see waiting for 16's heading towards bay ridge, mainly come off 43's, or the subway... If you do see a considerable crowd of folks waitin for the 16, it's b/c buses are late; which is rather common on that route... and the one thing I can't stand on top of it, is that some b/o's tend to crawl the route.... I really want to know their reason for extending it from parkside..... B23 - I'm not gonna argue with you on this one any further... with as many B6's & 82's that circle in & out of there, you aint terminating no other route inside there... why do you think they have buses layover on glenwood b/w E 96th & rockaway pkwy. (opposite the bus stops).... those buses that layover inside the loop itself doesn't help the cause either.... ....and forget about having some other route run inside the lane that the B42 does..... B70 - yeah well, still not convinced that this route "has" to go to VA Hosp..... You can have other routes serve the hospital.... B100 - The B2 is not used? Now I know you don't know what you're talking about here.... Tell those Marine Park residents that disembark that route @ the subway station in the morning & embark on them in the late pm hours that the route is not used..... those bad boys easily leave SRO, sometimed packed to the gills... B16: I said from, and that reason (connection with B43 & subway) is why it was extended in the first place. B23: *coughB42lanecough* B70: uh-huh. Yeah... You can have your opinion... B100/B2: Tell me where you are seeing these people? The B100 could easily be rerouted to serve Marine Park. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted March 29, 2012 Share #225 Posted March 29, 2012 B16: I said from, and that reason (connection with B43 & subway) is why it was extended in the first place.B23: *coughB42lanecough* B70: uh-huh. Yeah... You can have your opinion... B100/B2: Tell me where you are seeing these people? The B100 could easily be rerouted to serve Marine Park. B2 - The hell you mean where am I seeing these people? B2's arrive @ the subway station in the morning crowded... and they depart during the pm rush hours crowded.... The ridership is spread out from end to end, for the most part.... Furthermore, since you're conveying this notion as if hardly anyone takes the B2.... Why "easily" re-route the 100 to serve Marine Park if that's the case..... B16 - B16: Actually, enough, because B16's sometimes came with almost all the seats filled on mornings. You said "came with almost all the seats filled".... That implicates buses heading towards prospect park.... Secondly..... Like I said, I want MTA's reasoning for the extension, not your summary of it..... B70 - "uh huh. yeah".... I will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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