Bee Line, Ct. Transit and Northern suburbs bus proposal thread

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Right, if it's generally 22 mins., and the main usage (which is very low) it does get b/w that stretch is almost 100% supplemental, why bother.... When loop buses past White Plains are sought after more than the 3, then to me, running 3's there are wasteful... I'd buy the coverage argument if there were more (less private, meaning, non business parks) places of interest along Westchester av past The Westchester mall & along Purchase st, but there simply aren't..... Running 3's there every hour would yield no more than 3 trips (the am trips already doesn't have it's earliest 2 trips & it's latest trip not running past Broadway)....

 

Furthermore, I don't quite get your logic with the focusing on serving Purchase first, before focusing on serving the Bronx/Yonkers-White Plains riders (bolded in black & red)..... This isn't a x28/38 situation where the route should still maintain trips towards Sea Gate, but not all trips should run to Sea Gate (to give an analogy).....

 

The 3 not running past White Plains would have nothing to do with the 12 (totally separate issues), since I'd take away service from Purchase st up from Westchester av also....

 

The 13 increase would be b/w White Plains & Tarrytown, and would be split b/w the benedict spur & the rt. 119 spur. within Tarrytown... To boot, since the 1W would be gone, the 13 would be the only route (along 119) running b/w rts 9 & 9a - Which is how it should be IMO....

 

The 15 & 16 aren't timed at Cortlandt Town Center, the 14 (which ends there) & 15 (toward Peekskill) are.... Almost every single 15 I've taken up to Peekskill that arrived before the 14, would wait for the 14.... If the 14 got there first, it (the 15) would pick up pax. and then bounce..... The 16 doesn't seem to be timed with anything... Whether the 15/16 should be timed or not, I haven't put any thought into.... As for JVM, the 12 & the 16 were timed, with the 12 generally arriving first.... But yeah, it should have at least maintained service to Mt. Kisco at minimum, since there was turnover b/w the 12 & the 19 up there.... That is an argument for coverage I would buy/favor....

 

As to why (I think) the 12 got cut back, I can't fathom it had much of anything to do with the 15... Even though I thought something from the south should serve JVM (similar problem Brooklyn's Gateway mall had when the B13 was the only route serving it, and it was a PITA to get there from areas east of the B13), there's a very good chance they studied the sheer usage b/w the Airport & JVM, and they determined that so few riders isn't worth running service for so much mileage (fuel costs)... Which, to be honest, I have to agree from a sheer cost perspective....

 

Regarding AirLink, the only real question I have is, how utilized would it have been if the 12 never served the airport....

The thing is, I don't think Purchase and the Mastercard buildings there should have a bus every 60 minutes. I think it's too high, 30 minute headway should suffice, (one would be the 12, the other would the 3). Westchester Avenue would still have a lot of service. Of course, like I mentioned before, there would be one less bus needed per rush hour period (or even more), due to the truncation of most 3's to Broadway. That one 3 bus could be used to decrease the 3 headway from example, 20 minutes to 15 minutes, or every 12 minutes during the PM, if demand is there; it would still allow for an hourly headway to Purchase).

 

Now, if the 13 headway was decreased from White Plains to Tarrytown, what would be the headway: 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 12 minutes?

 

I wouldn't have mind having the 12 running to JVM, but like you mentioned, was cut because of inefficiency; Armonk shouldn't have been the new shortened terminal, IMO. I doubt that whoever left from the Mount Kisco and Yorktown areas that used the 12 are going to JVM there (by bus) or at all, getting there is now a very circutous route (for Mount Kisco riders, you'd have to take the 19 to Plesantivlle, hop on the 15 to Route 202, and then catch the 16 from there; no one would do that. Same for Yorktown (although to a not so elongated degree); One would have to catch the 15, then the 16, and that would take a pretty long time, compared to the old 12 going directly (not directly to it, but taking the shorter path) to JVM. 

 

I'm pretty sure Weekend service would be non existent if buses did not serve the airport on weekends. On Weekdays, you would see ridership, but not as much. I know the 12 is a low ridership route; I would be pretty interested to see the individual bus statistics for one day as well as the other bus routes like the MTA does (when are they going to release the stats for last year though!?!?). Also, nothing could really be done to boost ridership or to improve current service with the amount of riders given (besides what we've mentioned before).

[B35 via Church]

Finally remembered the name of that stretch along Westchester av... The Platinum Mile.

It'll be referred to as such from now on in this discussion.

 

The thing is, I don't think Purchase and the Mastercard buildings there should have a bus every 60 minutes. I think it's too high, 30 minute headway should suffice, (one would be the 12, the other would the 3). Westchester Avenue would still have a lot of service. Of course, like I mentioned before, there would be one less bus needed per rush hour period (or even more), due to the truncation of most 3's to Broadway. That one 3 bus could be used to decrease the 3 headway from example, 20 minutes to 15 minutes, or every 12 minutes during the PM, if demand is there; it would still allow for an hourly headway to Purchase).

 

Now, if the 13 headway was decreased from White Plains to Tarrytown, what would be the headway: 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 12 minutes?

 

I wouldn't have mind having the 12 running to JVM, but like you mentioned, was cut because of inefficiency; Armonk shouldn't have been the new shortened terminal, IMO. I doubt that whoever left from the Mount Kisco and Yorktown areas that used the 12 are going to JVM there (by bus) or at all, getting there is now a very circutous route (for Mount Kisco riders, you'd have to take the 19 to Plesantivlle, hop on the 15 to Route 202, and then catch the 16 from there; no one would do that. Same for Yorktown (although to a not so elongated degree); One would have to catch the 15, then the 16, and that would take a pretty long time, compared to the old 12 going directly (not directly to it, but taking the shorter path) to JVM. 

 

I'm pretty sure Weekend service would be non existent if buses did not serve the airport on weekends. On Weekdays, you would see ridership, but not as much. I know the 12 is a low ridership route; I would be pretty interested to see the individual bus statistics for one day as well as the other bus routes like the MTA does (when are they going to release the stats for last year though!?!?). Also, nothing could really be done to boost ridership or to improve current service with the amount of riders given (besides what we've mentioned before).

- The Platinum mile (still) having a lot of service isn't my issue at all - I would be arguing for keeping the 3 past White plains if that were the case.....

 

I didn't do the math, so I don't know if adding an extra bus on the 13 (of those that wouldn't run up to Ossining, that is) during the rush would cost more than cutting every 3 back to downtown White Plains would save.... This is essentially my argument/position..... You happen to think it's a level of service & coverage issue, I happen to think it's an issue of (wasted) mileage....

 

Anyway... Sure, in either case, a (physical) bus is a bus - But again, once the 3 hits White Plains (transcenter) after having came from the Bronx/Yonkers, it's ignored.... That's not going to happen with a 13 hitting the Transcenter having came from Ossining/Tarrytown....

 

Funny thing about this is, I have seen more people seek the friggin I-bus for service along the Platinum Mile from the transcenter... That should tell you enough; that should tell you the type of people that are seeking service up there - White Collar folks in general.... The same folks that are taking the Harlem line (from NYC) to White Plains for a cab, or the loop buses.... The same folks that are riding (from Yonkers) To Tarrytown for the TzX (yup, shocked me too)... The 3 isn't used by these folks, the 3, again, is a point to point express from the Bronx/Yonkers to downtown White plains - an express form of the 1w & the 5/6... That's, really it.... I can't put it anymore plainer than that...

 

Bee line can continue to try to get said folks on the 3, but as long as the loop buses exists, it won't happen....

I happen to like Bee Line & the way they run things in general, but like we discussed with the 1 branches/services, there is waste... And running 3's past Broadway (White Plains) is yet another case of it... It really isn't a matter of tinkering with service levels past White Plains with the 3.

 

 

- The 13 would run b/w Port Chester & Tarrytown (which is what that should have said, not White Plains & Tarrytown - as increased service b/w white plains & tarrytown would do nothing for those boarding along the platinum mile) every 15 mins (you don't really need 12 & every 10 would be too much).... It would be a slight, but noticeable upgrade from every 20.... Instead of giving people what they clamored for (more 13 service), they got longer waits for buses - partially b/c the Rye buses are too busy slow-crawling w/i Rye....

(This is where I say having canned the old 76 for extended 13's was a mistake)...

 

 

- I'm waiting for that myself (MTA stats), and wish Bee Line would put out ridership stats on a more regular basis...

Last set of numbers I have is from 2008.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

which route is faster from yonkers to new rochelle, 7 or 30?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Finally remembered the name of that stretch along Westchester av... The Platinum Mile.

It'll be referred to as such from now on in this discussion.

 

- The Platinum mile (still) having a lot of service isn't my issue at all - I would be arguing for keeping the 3 past White plains if that were the case.....

 

I didn't do the math, so I don't know if adding an extra bus on the 13 (of those that wouldn't run up to Ossining, that is) during the rush would cost more than cutting every 3 back to downtown White Plains would save.... This is essentially my argument/position..... You happen to think it's a level of service & coverage issue, I happen to think it's an issue of (wasted) mileage....

 

Anyway... Sure, in either case, a (physical) bus is a bus - But again, once the 3 hits White Plains (transcenter) after having came from the Bronx/Yonkers, it's ignored.... That's not going to happen with a 13 hitting the Transcenter having came from Ossining/Tarrytown....

 

Funny thing about this is, I have seen more people seek the friggin I-bus for service along the Platinum Mile from the transcenter... That should tell you enough; that should tell you the type of people that are seeking service up there - White Collar folks in general.... The same folks that are taking the Harlem line (from NYC) to White Plains for a cab, or the loop buses.... The same folks that are riding (from Yonkers) To Tarrytown for the TzX (yup, shocked me too)... The 3 isn't used by these folks, the 3, again, is a point to point express from the Bronx/Yonkers to downtown White plains - an express form of the 1w & the 5/6... That's, really it.... I can't put it anymore plainer than that...

 

Bee line can continue to try to get said folks on the 3, but as long as the loop buses exists, it won't happen....

I happen to like Bee Line & the way they run things in general, but like we discussed with the 1 branches/services, there is waste... And running 3's past Broadway (White Plains) is yet another case of it... It really isn't a matter of tinkering with service levels past White Plains with the 3.

 

 

- The 13 would run b/w Port Chester & Tarrytown (which is what that should have said, not White Plains & Tarrytown - as increased service b/w white plains & tarrytown would do nothing for those boarding along the platinum mile) every 15 mins (you don't really need 12 & every 10 would be too much).... It would be a slight, but noticeable upgrade from every 20.... Instead of giving people what they clamored for (more 13 service), they got longer waits for buses - partially b/c the Rye buses are too busy slow-crawling w/i Rye....

(This is where I say having canned the old 76 for extended 13's was a mistake)...

 

 

- I'm waiting for that myself (MTA stats), and wish Bee Line would put out ridership stats on a more regular basis...

Last set of numbers I have is from 2008.

I wouldn't let the service there at purchase be reduced to hourly though. I think it should be maintained at 2 buses per hour the very least. You could have those newly added trip to run via Purchase, or possibly alter loop C (PM) or D (PM) to serve Purchase (and cut the 3 ouright between Purchase and White Plains). That is alternative that I'm willing to also to accept (the C runs every hour anyway, which is slightly more feasible than loop D, which has more runs, and would take a longer distance and runtime by a significant amount). 5 minutes would be added on these trips. If possible, loop C would run non-stop from Red Oak Lane to South Kenisco Avenue (PM only), essentially adding 2-5 minutes at most per trip.

 

As for the 13, Tarrytown to Port Chester with an increase would cost more. The 3 would save 308 minutes should a total discontinuation between White Plains and Purchase occurs. During the peak hours, essentially it would be 2 round trips, for a total of 8 trips altogether. Judging the trips would have the following runtimes below, this is the grand net total of minutes saved (as follows):

 

 

 

 

AM: (E- Eastbound; W- Westbound)

1E: 60 minutes  1W- 69 minutes        2E- 65 minutes   2W- 64 minutes

 

PM:

1E: 67 minutes  1W: 72 Minutes        2E: 67 minutes   2W- 67 Minutes

 

Added minutes on the 13: 531 minutes

 

 

 

Of course, this doesn't include buses from the 3 being placed on the 13 (less runtime=less DH= less drivers on 3; but the buses off the 3 can be utilized on the 13). So that's 223 extra minutes added by running 13's every 15 minutes during the peak periods. Of course, when the 1W cut is also included, you would indeed save money and buses, which could be utilized also to boost up the 13 (and other services mentioned), and keep things cost-neutral. I would do the math, but that's a lot of work. (For example, figuring out timing for 6's from the bronx to Yonkers; the added runtime and cost would be a lot, because time changes all over the day, and it's not steady, especially rush hours, not to mention I don't know Bee Line's operating cost per hour).

 

So yeah, I'm in boosting up 13 bus service, from the riders perspective, and from a cost perspective. 

which route is faster from yonkers to new rochelle, 7 or 30?

Appearently, the 30 is faster than the 7 for the msot part, and for obvious reason (the 7 gets loaded with passengers throughout the day).

[BxM4Woodlawn]

I wouldn't let the service there at purchase be reduced to hourly though. I think it should be maintained at 2 buses per hour the very least. You could have those newly added trip to run via Purchase, or possibly alter loop C (PM) or D (PM) to serve Purchase (and cut the 3 ouright between Purchase and White Plains). That is alternative that I'm willing to also to accept (the C runs every hour anyway, which is slightly more feasible than loop D, which has more runs, and would take a longer distance and runtime by a significant amount). 5 minutes would be added on these trips. If possible, loop C would run non-stop from Red Oak Lane to South Kenisco Avenue (PM only), essentially adding 2-5 minutes at most per trip.

 

As for the 13, Tarrytown to Port Chester with an increase would cost more. The 3 would save 308 minutes should a total discontinuation between White Plains and Purchase occurs. During the peak hours, essentially it would be 2 round trips, for a total of 8 trips altogether. Judging the trips would have the following runtimes below, this is the grand net total of minutes saved (as follows):

 

 

 

 

AM: (E- Eastbound; W- Westbound)

1E: 60 minutes  1W- 69 minutes        2E- 65 minutes   2W- 64 minutes

 

PM:

1E: 67 minutes  1W: 72 Minutes        2E: 67 minutes   2W- 67 Minutes

 

Added minutes on the 13: 531 minutes

 

 

 

Of course, this doesn't include buses from the 3 being placed on the 13 (less runtime=less DH= less drivers on 3; but the buses off the 3 can be utilized on the 13). So that's 223 extra minutes added by running 13's every 15 minutes during the peak periods. Of course, when the 1W cut is also included, you would indeed save money and buses, which could be utilized also to boost up the 13 (and other services mentioned), and keep things cost-neutral. I would do the math, but that's a lot of work. (For example, figuring out timing for 6's from the bronx to Yonkers; the added runtime and cost would be a lot, because time changes all over the day, and it's not steady, especially rush hours, not to mention I don't know Bee Line's operating cost per hour).

 

So yeah, I'm in boosting up 13 bus service, from the riders perspective, and from a cost perspective. 

 

Appearently, the 30 is faster than the 7 for the msot part, and for obvious reason (the 7 gets loaded with passengers throughout the day).

with my proposals, the 6 from the Bronx/242nd St - White Plains would have 20 minute headways instead of 30. 

the 13 would also get 20 minute service throughout the day with hourly service to Ossining.

the 1T would also get inceased service (40 minute headways) with the changes and it would become the dominant branch of the 1.

the 3 would get increased rush hour service as well

[BxM4Woodlawn]

In my proposal I also think the White Plains-Pleasantville section of the current 6 should be replaced by the 15 which would be rerouted south of Pleasantville. I have the 63 extended to replace the current 15 between White Plains and Westchester Medical Center.

[40MntVrn]

Here are my official Bee-Line proposal for the future:

3: Eliminate service to Manhattanville Rd/Purchase. (replaced by a newly revived Loop E). Also extend service between 6:00 and 9:00 to White Plains, and 3:30 to 7:00 to the Bronx. Also reroute the routing between Downtown Yonkers & Sprain Brook Pkwy. New Routing will be Ashburton Ave/Saw Mill River Rd/Palmer Rd/Central Park Ave/Sprain Pkwy (same for Rt 1X)

I like these suggestions.

7: hourly late night service introduced between Yonkers & New Rochelle. Also all Sunday short turn trips now run full route.

Why the need for late night? This is cross-county route and doesn't serve any subway stations. The Short-Turns make sense, as ridership doesn't run New Rochelle Service at all times.

12: service extended to Jefferson Valley weekdays, Mount Kisco saturdays, and the County Airport Sundays.

HPN really needs better domestic service. When that happens, I think 12 service would definitely be warranted.

13: hourly late night service introduced between Tarrytown & Port Chester

I say Downtown White Plains as the Late Night terminal, but Tarrytown could benefit from the service.

20: late night hourly service introduced between the Bronx & White Plains, and 1/2 hour service between the Bronx & Tuckahoe Rd.

Late Night Service? Yes! Past Yonkers? Sadly I disagree.

21: service now runs all day during Weekdays.

Isn't this full-time route that short-turns at Cross County?

24: newly revived route that runs from Yonkers-Getty Square to Nereid Ave Subway, via Yonkers Ave/Central Park Ave/McLean Ave. Rush Hours Only.

There's so much duplication.

25: service extended to 12 Midnight both directions weekdays.

26: increased service on Weekdays and Saturdays

I agree with this. The continued improvement of Cross County will only increase ridership. I believe the Bee-Line has the perfect opportunity to make all Cross County buses more frequent.

40: route now serves 241st St Subway full time.

I'd love this idea, but the times this service is required is already in place.

42: Saturday service to 233rd St now revived.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of peak hour 42's terminating at 233rd is to meet with 5 trains that don't travel to 241st? If that's the case, you'd have 42's duplicating 2 trains service.

52: Sunday service introduced

Completely. Unnecessary. The 52 does a great job acting as a feeder route, but doesn't service any purpose past Lincoln Ave in Mount Vernon.

60: late night hourly service introduced between the Bronx and New Rochelle.

I would LOVE if this could work, but the 60 doesn't have a lot of point A to point B destinations. Along with duplication of both the Harlem/New Haven lines makes this idea moot.

[B35 via Church]

which route is faster from yonkers to new rochelle, 7 or 30?

The 7, AINEC IMO....

 

Appearently, the 30 is faster than the 7 for the msot part, and for obvious reason (the 7 gets loaded with passengers throughout the day).

Even with the loads the 7 gets, I'd still say it gets you to Yonkers quicker.... The slowest/laggiest part of the 7 is the Mt. Vernon (east) - Yonkers half (the New Roc - Mt. Vernon half tends to be fairly quick).... The 30 OTOH (even though I like fanning that route) meanders the whole way through, and it feels like forever to get from Bryn Mawr to Downtown Yonkers....

 

* sorry, the Bryn Mawr section of Yonkers is up there along Lockwood; it's one of the nicer parts of Yonkers....

 

I wouldn't let the service there at purchase be reduced to hourly though. I think it should be maintained at 2 buses per hour the very least. You could have those newly added trip to run via Purchase, or possibly alter loop C (PM) or D (PM) to serve Purchase (and cut the 3 ouright between Purchase and White Plains). That is alternative that I'm willing to also to accept (the C runs every hour anyway, which is slightly more feasible than loop D, which has more runs, and would take a longer distance and runtime by a significant amount). 5 minutes would be added on these trips. If possible, loop C would run non-stop from Red Oak Lane to South Kenisco Avenue (PM only), essentially adding 2-5 minutes at most per trip.

 

As for the 13, Tarrytown to Port Chester with an increase would cost more. The 3 would save 308 minutes should a total discontinuation between White Plains and Purchase occurs. During the peak hours, essentially it would be 2 round trips, for a total of 8 trips altogether. Judging the trips would have the following runtimes below, this is the grand net total of minutes saved (as follows):

 

 

 

 

AM: (E- Eastbound; W- Westbound)

1E: 60 minutes  1W- 69 minutes        2E- 65 minutes   2W- 64 minutes

 

PM:

1E: 67 minutes  1W: 72 Minutes        2E: 67 minutes   2W- 67 Minutes

 

Added minutes on the 13: 531 minutes

 

 

 

Of course, this doesn't include buses from the 3 being placed on the 13 (less runtime=less DH= less drivers on 3; but the buses off the 3 can be utilized on the 13). So that's 223 extra minutes added by running 13's every 15 minutes during the peak periods. Of course, when the 1W cut is also included, you would indeed save money and buses, which could be utilized also to boost up the 13 (and other services mentioned), and keep things cost-neutral. I would do the math, but that's a lot of work. (For example, figuring out timing for 6's from the bronx to Yonkers; the added runtime and cost would be a lot, because time changes all over the day, and it's not steady, especially rush hours, not to mention I don't know Bee Line's operating cost per hour).

 

So yeah, I'm in boosting up 13 bus service, from the riders perspective, and from a cost perspective.

- I understand how much service you would & wouldn't leave the 3 with, and I'm sure you realize there is a (respectful) disagreement b/w us when it comes to the amt. of service the 3 should have past White Plains by now...

What I'm not quite getting is the repeating of the point; like you're trying to make some other point I'm just not seeing by repeating it.... By saying you wouldn't have service there every hourly, but w/ (at least) 1/2 hourly instead makes no difference to me.... You're repeating that as if my argument to you is that you're underserving Purchase, which would make no sense - because I'm the very person suggesting no BL-3 service past White Plains! I don't get your repetiton with that; so help me out...

 

It's like offering someone allergic to peanuts 1 peanut instead of 2 or 3.... They're not gonna take the 1 peanut because it's less than 2 & 3... Lol...

 

- The 12 should be structured like a loop route at this point, with the only termini being at the Transcenter... Only difference is that it'd run all day, unlike the current loop routes.... Nothing should be terminating in, or even running to Armonk.... I'm perfectly fine with no direct alternate to running inside Purchase Centre/Mastercard bldg's.... The only reason I'd have 12's backtracking from Anderson Hill rd. down Purchase st is for Manhattanville Coll.... I thought about what you're describing with having one of the loop buses serve Mastercard/Purchase Ctr, but I don't think it'd be worth it....

 

- Alright, cool, so you did the math.... I figured the scale would be tipped in the direction of a net increase in more 13 service during the rush, with which I was still going to say that said net increase would still be well worth it.... You wouldn't even have to consider using the savings that would come about from cutting 1W's & altering/optimizing the other BL-1 branches for extended 6's to the Bronx.... Those savings could go to other areas of the county where bus service is needed, or needs an enhancement....

 

....the 1T would also get inceased service (40 minute headways) with the changes and it would become the dominant branch of the 1.

I'd try to keep the level of service somewhat equal b/w the (1c/x) & the (1t); I wouldn't aim to have a dominant branch of the 1...

Tarrytown & Valhalla (WMC/WCC) should have around the same level of service....

[BxM4Woodlawn]

The 7, AINEC IMO....

 

Even with the loads the 7 gets, I'd still say it gets you to Yonkers quicker.... The slowest/laggiest part of the 7 is the Mt. Vernon (east) - Yonkers half (the New Roc - Mt. Vernon half tends to be fairly quick).... The 30 OTOH (even though I like fanning that route) meanders the whole way through, and it feels like forever to get from Bryn Mawr to Downtown Yonkers....

 

* sorry, the Bryn Mawr section of Yonkers is up there along Lockwood; it's one of the nicer parts of Yonkers....

 

- I understand how much service you would & wouldn't leave the 3 with, and I'm sure you realize there is a (respectful) disagreement b/w us when it comes to the amt. of service the 3 should have past White Plains by now...

What I'm not quite getting is the repeating of the point; like you're trying to make some other point I'm just not seeing by repeating it.... By saying you wouldn't have service there every hourly, but w/ (at least) 1/2 hourly instead makes no difference to me.... You're repeating that as if my argument to you is that you're underserving Purchase, which would make no sense - because I'm the very person suggesting no BL-3 service past White Plains! I don't get your repetiton with that; so help me out...

 

It's like offering someone allergic to peanuts 1 peanut instead of 2 or 3.... They're not gonna take the 1 peanut because it's less than 2 & 3... Lol...

 

- The 12 should be structured like a loop route at this point, with the only termini being at the Transcenter... Only difference is that it'd run all day, unlike the current loop routes.... Nothing should be terminating in, or even running to Armonk.... I'm perfectly fine with no direct alternate to running inside Purchase Centre/Mastercard bldg's.... The only reason I'd have 12's backtracking from Anderson Hill rd. down Purchase st is for Manhattanville Coll.... I thought about what you're describing with having one of the loop buses serve Mastercard/Purchase Ctr, but I don't think it'd be worth it....

 

- Alright, cool, so you did the math.... I figured the scale would be tipped in the direction of a net increase in more 13 service during the rush, with which I was still going to say that said net increase would still be well worth it.... You wouldn't even have to consider using the savings that would come about from cutting 1W's & altering/optimizing the other BL-1 branches for extended 6's to the Bronx.... Those savings could go to other areas of the county where bus service is needed, or needs an enhancement....

 

I'd try to keep the level of service somewhat equal b/w the (1c/x) & the (1t); I wouldn't aim to have a dominant branch of the 1...

Tarrytown & Valhalla (WMC/WCC) should have around the same level of service....

I would say the 6 runs on 20 minute headways when it runs to the Bronx, (15 during rush hours) and the 6 should run more artics with this extension.

 

I can agree to level out the 1T with the other 1's, but it should run a little bit later, and possibly Saturday service.

[B35 via Church]

Don't know why I didn't notice this when it was first posted... anyway:

 

Here are my official Bee-Line proposal for the future:

1: (as stated above) Rt 1W-eliminated, Rt 1C-peak hours only, Rt 1T-increased service to Tarrytown, and Saturday service introduced.

    1-City Line, all service extended to Dobbs Ferry ( some added as 1T's to Tarrytown ). A new Route, Rt 1A added during middays (Weekdays only) as Express service between Broadway 242nd St-WCC/Medical Center via Ardsley. (Ashburton Ave, Nepperhan Ave, Saw Mill River Rd)

1/2: Late Night hourly service introduced between Broadway 242nd St & Getty Square

3: Eliminate service to Manhattanville Rd/Purchase. (replaced by a newly revived Loop E). Also extend service between 6:00 and 9:00 to White Plains, and 3:30 to 7:00 to the Bronx. Also reroute the routing between Downtown Yonkers & Sprain Brook Pkwy. New Routing will be Ashburton Ave/Saw Mill River Rd/Palmer Rd/Central Park Ave/Sprain Pkwy (same for Rt 1X)

4: introduce hourly late night service between Bedford Park & Getty Square

5: increase Saturday service between Yonkers & White Plains to every 1/2 hour. and Sunday service to every hour.

6: extend route to Broadway 242nd St, evidently becoming "THE ROUTE" from West Bronx-White Plains. Also eliminate Pleasantville service (to be replaced by the 15). Also Increased service between the Bronx and White Plains on Weekdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. Service to run til midnight on Weekdays, 11:30 pm Saturdays, and 10:30 pm Sundays.

7: hourly late night service introduced between Yonkers & New Rochelle. Also all Sunday short turn trips now run full route.

8: increased Weekday and Saturday service.

12: service extended to Jefferson Valley weekdays, Mount Kisco saturdays, and the County Airport Sundays.

13: hourly late night service introduced between Tarrytown & Port Chester

14: Weekday service between White Plains & Ossining extended to 11:30PM, Saturday service extended to 10PM

15: Route re-routed between White Plains & Pleasantville to the current Rt 6 routing. (15 route between White Plains & Medical Center replaced by the 63)

20: late night hourly service introduced between the Bronx & White Plains, and 1/2 hour service between the Bronx & Tuckahoe Rd.

21: service now runs all day during Weekdays.

24: newly revived route that runs from Yonkers-Getty Square to Nereid Ave Subway, via Yonkers Ave/Central Park Ave/McLean Ave. Rush Hours Only

25: service extended to 12 Midnight both directions weekdays

26: increased service on Weekdays and Saturdays

30: service re-routed to serve Yonkers RR Station, and Sunday service is introduced, hourly between 9AM and 5PM

32: service re-route off Hawthorne Ave at Ludlow St, and will use Riverdale Ave north of Ludlow St.

40: route now serves 241st St Subway full time

42: Saturday service to 233rd St now revived

52: Sunday service introduced

53: route now runs all day on weekdays

60: late night hourly service introduced between the Bronx and New Rochelle.

63: service extended to the Westchester Medical Center to replace the Rt 15

77: service now serves Yorktown Heights. (back to pre 2004 routing)

90: service revived between Fordham and Playland. (first time since 2002)

1/2: I think this should be done with the 2 only.... The city line shorties on the 1 is what I have a problem with at it is.

Give all the late night service to the 2 b/w the & Getty Sq. & call it a day.... Make life easier...

 

4: I don't think this is necessary... I also think folks along McLean b/w Park Hill & Central Park av would disapprove of it....

7: At best, I'd run late night service b/w Mt Vernon & Yonkers.... Dont need em running past MNRR Mt. Vernon east....

8: Been saying that for a minute on here.... agreed.

13: IDK, not saying it's a bad idea, but I am a little skeptical about running 13's too late past the Transcenter (westward)....

14: While I won't put an exact time on it, I've been on 14's where riders (multiple occasions) wished/wanted buses running later... I'd be in favor of this...

 

15: Don't agree with this... I see that you'd increase the span of the 14, but you would also need to increase the frequency of the 14 a bit if you plan on running it over the current 6 north of the transcenter towards Pleasantville.... The 14 & the 15 have a bit of a relationship/interchangability (if you will) b/w Peekskill & White Plains - which includes WMC & the Medical College, so I wouldn't mar that to have 63's serving WMC from south of rt. 119 - when those riders are already bombarding 40's b/w White plains & Valhalla.... That to me would yield cutting some number of 40's back to the transcenter to have 63's running to WMC.....

 

20: Nah, late night service shouldn't run past Cross County....

Hell, I'd run the (extended) 6's late nights from White Plains for the purpose of getting back to the city - push that envelope with the 6 even further)... They'd run concurrent w/ the BL-2 from Getty Sq. toward the Bronx.

 

21: If you think it's worth cutting some amount of 20 locals for it, then yeah, I guess....

24: What is this supposed to accomplish?

 

25/26... Should run under one schedule; the 26 should be nothing more than 25 rush hour short turns that run along Bronx River instead of Kimball.... Having 25's/26's run the way they do, to me, tells me that they don't want to, or don't feel its necessary to increase 25 service (specifically b/w Cross County & downtown Yonkers).... For all I care, Bee Line can run every 3rd BL-52 (weekdays only) from MNRR Bronxville down to Cross County for coverage purposes; that would add about what, 10 mins to the route.... Every 3rd 52 isn't too much different headway-wise than current 26 service....

 

Nothing should be terminating at MNRR Bronxville anyway, let alone 2 routes....

 

30: No comment on sunday service, agree with it ending at the RR station...

* If need be, the (would be short turn) 6's from the plan I mentioned earlier would end over there right in front of the subway (sandwich shop) along riverdale at hudson; That stop that the 8 tends to pick up rather heavy at.... Anyway, Instead of turning on Hudson, 6's would turn on Prospect, etc. up towards White Plains....

 

40: Some increase in service running to the Bronx, yes... All trips, nah, can't say that's warranted...

42: When did they cut weekend service to 241st? I agree with this....

52: Don't agree.. The 55 suffices b/w the Bronx & Mt Vernon on sundays, and service from Mt. Vernon to Cross county is far more demanded for than service up towards Bronxville.... The 52 absolutely dies north of Lincoln on sundays, even saturday's to an extent....

60: NYC riders would benefit from that far more than Westchester would.... It wouldn't be a mutual benefit like say, having late night service running b/w Getty Sq. & the .... If there wasn't this "divide" between counties, I'd say that's something the MTA should look into....

63: see comments for your 15 change...

77: Not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, but I don't think it'd make too much difference at this point.....

 

 

 

 

7: hourly late night service introduced between Yonkers & New Rochelle. Also all Sunday short turn trips now run full route.

Why the need for late night? This is cross-county route and doesn't serve any subway stations. The Short-Turns make sense, as ridership doesn't run New Rochelle Service at all times.

You don't think there's demand for travel b/w Mt. Vernon & Yonkers late nights? I do....

 

Where I disagree with the idea is running buses east of Mt. Vernon east... Pelham patrons would throw a fit, and many of those folks down at MNRR New Roc are too busy tryna get to Manhattan.... Those are the folks I'd say have no need for x-town service around that time.....

 

13: hourly late night service introduced between Tarrytown & Port Chester

I say Downtown White Plains as the Late Night terminal, but Tarrytown could benefit from the service.

20: late night hourly service introduced between the Bronx & White Plains, and 1/2 hour service between the Bronx & Tuckahoe Rd.

Late Night Service? Yes! Past Yonkers? Sadly I disagree.

This. To both replies.

 

21: service now runs all day during Weekdays.

Isn't this full-time route that short-turns at Cross County?

Not sure what you're thinking of, but the 21 is the LTD variant of the 20 that runs during rush hrs. and doesn't serve Cross County at all....

 

24: newly revived route that runs from Yonkers-Getty Square to Nereid Ave Subway, via Yonkers Ave/Central Park Ave/McLean Ave. Rush Hours Only.

There's so much duplication.

Yeah, I don't get this one either...

 

25: service extended to 12 Midnight both directions weekdays.

26: increased service on Weekdays and Saturdays

I agree with this. The continued improvement of Cross County will only increase ridership. I believe the Bee-Line has the perfect opportunity to make all Cross County buses more frequent.

Where I disagree with this segment of his ideas is the increasing of service on the 26 in particular..... The 26 runs every 75 mins because it runs to Bronxville... Any increase in service from WPR to Cross County should be given to the 25 over the 26.... You definitely don't need increased service between Cross County & Bronxville....

 

42: Saturday service to 233rd St now revived.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of peak hour 42's terminating at 233rd is to meet with 5 trains that don't travel to 241st? If that's the case, you'd have 42's duplicating 2 trains service.

Don't know, but this couldn't have been too big a deal/issue when way back when, when all 42 trips went to 233rd - regardless of any subway pattern along WPR... I agree with him that buses should go back to 233rd weekends; gives it more weekend ridership from folks coming off Bx16's & Bx31's.... Under this logic, the 20 should end at Woodlawn instead of Bedford Park so that it doesn't duplicate the - same exact # of stops too....

 

in bold, red, Tahoma fontface.....

I would say the 6 runs on 20 minute headways when it runs to the Bronx, (15 during rush hours) and the 6 should run more artics with this extension.

 

I can agree to level out the 1T with the other 1's, but it should run a little bit later, and possibly Saturday service.

The 6 would have to run artics running from White Plains to the Bronx, that's not even a question....

[GreatOne2k]

Metro North doesn't run 24/7 so having the 60 run to New Rochelle overnight wouldn't be duplication

 

1W - Runs on Sundays at 80 minute headways

20 - Late night service between Bedford Park and Empire City

40 - Every other midday and weekend trip extended to 241 St (60 minute headways), most rush hour trips to/from Mt Vernon (when 41 is running). Most weekday evening service to 241 St (30-60 minute headways, except the last trip which has a 20 minute gap),

41 - All service extended to/from 241 St

45 - Add a 6:08pm trip on Sundays back to Eastchester (since the bus is already there at Pelham Bay), add an additional round trip 7 days a week from Eastchester to Pelham Bay and back to Eastchester.

60 - Last weekday S/B trip extended to Fordham

61 - Increase midday service to 30 minutes between Fordham and Larchmont to give a combined 15 minute headway on the 60/61 on the busier portions of the route.

[GreatOne2k]

Due to the success of the 45 Sunday service and later the 8 gaining Sunday service, which route should be next to gain Sunday service?

 

Possible routes are 1W, 26, 52, 61

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Don't know why I didn't notice this when it was first posted... anyway:

 

1/2: I think this should be done with the 2 only.... The city line shorties on the 1 is what I have a problem with at it is.

Give all the late night service to the 2 b/w the & Getty Sq. & call it a day.... Make life easier...

 

4: I don't think this is necessary... I also think folks along McLean b/w Park Hill & Central Park av would disapprove of it....

7: At best, I'd run late night service b/w Mt Vernon & Yonkers.... Dont need em running past MNRR Mt. Vernon east....

8: Been saying that for a minute on here.... agreed.

13: IDK, not saying it's a bad idea, but I am a little skeptical about running 13's too late past the Transcenter (westward)....

14: While I won't put an exact time on it, I've been on 14's where riders (multiple occasions) wished/wanted buses running later... I'd be in favor of this...

 

15: Don't agree with this... I see that you'd increase the span of the 14, but you would also need to increase the frequency of the 14 a bit if you plan on running it over the current 6 north of the transcenter towards Pleasantville.... The 14 & the 15 have a bit of a relationship/interchangability (if you will) b/w Peekskill & White Plains - which includes WMC & the Medical College, so I wouldn't mar that to have 63's serving WMC from south of rt. 119 - when those riders are already bombarding 40's b/w White plains & Valhalla.... That to me would yield cutting some number of 40's back to the transcenter to have 63's running to WMC.....

 

20: Nah, late night service shouldn't run past Cross County....

Hell, I'd run the (extended) 6's late nights from White Plains for the purpose of getting back to the city - push that envelope with the 6 even further)... They'd run concurrent w/ the BL-2 from Getty Sq. toward the Bronx.

 

21: If you think it's worth cutting some amount of 20 locals for it, then yeah, I guess....

24: What is this supposed to accomplish?

 

25/26... Should run under one schedule; the 26 should be nothing more than 25 rush hour short turns that run along Bronx River instead of Kimball.... Having 25's/26's run the way they do, to me, tells me that they don't want to, or don't feel its necessary to increase 25 service (specifically b/w Cross County & downtown Yonkers).... For all I care, Bee Line can run every 3rd BL-52 (weekdays only) from MNRR Bronxville down to Cross County for coverage purposes; that would add about what, 10 mins to the route.... Every 3rd 52 isn't too much different headway-wise than current 26 service....

 

Nothing should be terminating at MNRR Bronxville anyway, let alone 2 routes....

 

30: No comment on sunday service, agree with it ending at the RR station...

* If need be, the (would be short turn) 6's from the plan I mentioned earlier would end over there right in front of the subway (sandwich shop) along riverdale at hudson; That stop that the 8 tends to pick up rather heavy at.... Anyway, Instead of turning on Hudson, 6's would turn on Prospect, etc. up towards White Plains....

 

40: Some increase in service running to the Bronx, yes... All trips, nah, can't say that's warranted...

42: When did they cut weekend service to 241st? I agree with this....

52: Don't agree.. The 55 suffices b/w the Bronx & Mt Vernon on sundays, and service from Mt. Vernon to Cross county is far more demanded for than service up towards Bronxville.... The 52 absolutely dies north of Lincoln on sundays, even saturday's to an extent....

60: NYC riders would benefit from that far more than Westchester would.... It wouldn't be a mutual benefit like say, having late night service running b/w Getty Sq. & the .... If there wasn't this "divide" between counties, I'd say that's something the MTA should look into....

63: see comments for your 15 change...

77: Not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing, but I don't think it'd make too much difference at this point.....

 

 

 

in bold, red, Tahoma fontface.....

 

The 6 would have to run artics running from White Plains to the Bronx, that's not even a question....

Okay, i'll revise mine a little bit.

Only the 2 runs between 242nd St & Getty Square late nights.

The 4 does not run past 12:30am.

the 5 has increased service between Yonkers & White Plains on Saturdays

the 6 runs until 1:05am (last trip out of White Plains) Weekdays and Saturdays.

the 7 late night service runs between Yonkers & Mount Vernon hourly, and to New Rochelle bi-hourly

the 8 will run til 12:30am weekdays, 11:30pm Saturdays

the 15 will stick to its current route but with increased service

the 20 will run late night service to Tuckahoe Road only

the 25 and 26 will be combined into the same route west of Cross County. Service between Cross County and Bronxville is eliminated.

Every 3rd 25 will be a 26.

all Route 30 trips will go to New Rochelle. no Bronxville short turns

the 40 will have increased service to White Plains Rd/241st St Subway, but not all trips will go there

the 63 will be extended to Pleasantville via the current 6 routing.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

New idea for the 26, service now extended to Stew Leonard's and Ridge Hill north of Cross County. Will use Kimball Ave, continue onto Bronxville Road, left on Tuckahoe Road, cross Central Park Ave, turn right onto Ridge Hill drive, and continue on to Stew Leonard's. (will replace 78 east of Ridge Hill) 78 now serves Getty Square-Stew Leonard's/Ridge Hill only.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

the 63 can run some of those mini Orion V's during the mid day hours

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The 7, AINEC IMO....

 

Even with the loads the 7 gets, I'd still say it gets you to Yonkers quicker.... The slowest/laggiest part of the 7 is the Mt. Vernon (east) - Yonkers half (the New Roc - Mt. Vernon half tends to be fairly quick).... The 30 OTOH (even though I like fanning that route) meanders the whole way through, and it feels like forever to get from Bryn Mawr to Downtown Yonkers....

 

* sorry, the Bryn Mawr section of Yonkers is up there along Lockwood; it's one of the nicer parts of Yonkers....

 

- I understand how much service you would & wouldn't leave the 3 with, and I'm sure you realize there is a (respectful) disagreement b/w us when it comes to the amt. of service the 3 should have past White Plains by now...

What I'm not quite getting is the repeating of the point; like you're trying to make some other point I'm just not seeing by repeating it.... By saying you wouldn't have service there every hourly, but w/ (at least) 1/2 hourly instead makes no difference to me.... You're repeating that as if my argument to you is that you're underserving Purchase, which would make no sense - because I'm the very person suggesting no BL-3 service past White Plains! I don't get your repetiton with that; so help me out...

 

It's like offering someone allergic to peanuts 1 peanut instead of 2 or 3.... They're not gonna take the 1 peanut because it's less than 2 & 3... Lol...

 

- The 12 should be structured like a loop route at this point, with the only termini being at the Transcenter... Only difference is that it'd run all day, unlike the current loop routes.... Nothing should be terminating in, or even running to Armonk.... I'm perfectly fine with no direct alternate to running inside Purchase Centre/Mastercard bldg's.... The only reason I'd have 12's backtracking from Anderson Hill rd. down Purchase st is for Manhattanville Coll.... I thought about what you're describing with having one of the loop buses serve Mastercard/Purchase Ctr, but I don't think it'd be worth it....

 

- Alright, cool, so you did the math.... I figured the scale would be tipped in the direction of a net increase in more 13 service during the rush, with which I was still going to say that said net increase would still be well worth it.... You wouldn't even have to consider using the savings that would come about from cutting 1W's & altering/optimizing the other BL-1 branches for extended 6's to the Bronx.... Those savings could go to other areas of the county where bus service is needed, or needs an enhancement....

As for the first point, yeah the 30 winds a lot, and I believe with good reason too. 

 

As for the 3, I'm basically trying to state that during rush hour, all neighborhoods/major areas (with the exception of northern westchester), should maintain at least at 30 minute headway during rush hours (or 2 bph) on at least one route. Obviously the 12 doesn't run with that headway, so there should be one other bus running to White Plains from Mastercard, be it a modified loop route, a 13, or a 3. The 12 shouldn't be the only bus running to those two buildings (I know it doesn't enter them, but being the only bus on that section if the 3 were to be cut, the 12 would have to enter Purchase and Mastercard. My argument is basically a coverage argument, there should be some sort of service maintained there to the point where the waits aren't so long for rush hour periods. Other routes, like the 15, I can understand not being 30 minute headways, because it runs as a coverage route for the most part. 

 

As for the 12 being a loop route, I guess, the difference to me was that during the rush, the Armonk section would be done by reverse peak H loop buses (so the Armonk section be essentially be a loop). The main 12 portion would loop back after Westchester County Airport, via Anderson Hill Road to Westchester County Airport, and from in the AM. 

 

As for a route that needs improvement or area that needs bus service, are there any that come to mind?

[BxM4Woodlawn]

As for a route that needs improvement or area that needs bus service, are there any that come to mind?

 

 

I gave suggestions on improving the 26 and 63

[B35 via Church]

As for the first point, yeah the 30 winds a lot, and I believe with good reason too. 

 

As for the 3, I'm basically trying to state that during rush hour, all neighborhoods/major areas (with the exception of northern westchester), should maintain at least at 30 minute headway during rush hours (or 2 bph) on at least one route. Obviously the 12 doesn't run with that headway, so there should be one other bus running to White Plains from Mastercard, be it a modified loop route, a 13, or a 3. The 12 shouldn't be the only bus running to those two buildings (I know it doesn't enter them, but being the only bus on that section if the 3 were to be cut, the 12 would have to enter Purchase and Mastercard. My argument is basically a coverage argument, there should be some sort of service maintained there to the point where the waits aren't so long for rush hour periods. Other routes, like the 15, I can understand not being 30 minute headways, because it runs as a coverage route for the most part. 

 

As for the 12 being a loop route, I guess, the difference to me was that during the rush, the Armonk section would be done by reverse peak H loop buses (so the Armonk section be essentially be a loop). The main 12 portion would loop back after Westchester County Airport, via Anderson Hill Road to Westchester County Airport, and from in the AM. 

 

As for a route that needs improvement or area that needs bus service, are there any that come to mind?

Your argument isn't one of coverage, it's one of (insufficient) service....

Add whatever service levels you think that immediate part of Purchase should have to the 12 during the rush & the only thing would be lost is directly running inside complex that houses the Mastercard bldg's & Purchase Centre... Are those buildings really worth having the BL-3 running to Purchase, over adding (whatever you consider would be) commensurate service for Purchase, to the 12?

 

* The same logic was used when Bee line (eventually) got it right with the (non) serving of that bloomingdale's in white plains....

Back in either 2009 or 2010, they swapped the 20 & 14 terminals in white plains (which meant the 20 ended at E.J. Conroy & the 14 went over to the Bloomingdales; way too much patronage on the 20 to have that route serve what few amt. of ppl. from the transcenter, onward, needed to get there).... Why they chose the 14 in-particular for the task is anyone's guess, but the point to be made is:

Look where the both of those routes terminate in White Plains now - Sure as hell isn't at the Bloomingdale's... Lol.

 

 

As for other routes that could use some form of improvement, off top, I have a couple, I guess:

 

- the 14 should stop at MNRR Croton-Harmon, since it doesn't stop at MNRR Ossining... I've seen people wait for 14's & disembark 14's for the RR station.... I actually did the reverse (got off MNRR for the 14 towards Peekskill), and that walk isn't anything to scoff at....

- I haven't thought of which particular route should do this, but the fact that there's nothing connecting MNRR Valhalla to WCC/WMC is baffling to me.... This is another reason why there's so much patronage for the 40/41 north of the WP transcenter....

- all 13 trips should end at MNRR Port Chester - but instead of the last stop being on broad st, it should be right where the Stamford #11 bus route makes its first pickup stop (on main st, just north of westchester av) - adee > abendroth > westchester would be the turnaround.. Buses would layover at the current first pickup stop of the 13 at Port Chester (under the RR tracks)...

- the 75 would be an all day route, instead of a seasonal route... It would run between the state line (where the 61 takes its layover at (not the last stop)) & Playland via Kohl's shopping center..... Way too much to explain, I would have to draw it up on a map.

- Don't know how to say this, other than... I think the 60 is too local (too slow) & the 62 is too express... I think there should be a variant that doesn't make all those stops the 60 does, but doesn't exactly go straight to the Platinum Mile corridor from New Roc' like the 62 does..... Guess it can be called the 60x or whatever.... Haven't thought up a routing or stop listing as of yet...

- Either the 52 or the 55 should run down to PBP via co-op city (I happen to favor the 52)...

 

Aside from what's been mentioned earlier in this discussion (the 1, 6, 32, etc), that's all I got for now.

 

 

New idea for the 26, service now extended to Stew Leonard's and Ridge Hill north of Cross County. Will use Kimball Ave, continue onto Bronxville Road, left on Tuckahoe Road, cross Central Park Ave, turn right onto Ridge Hill drive, and continue on to Stew Leonard's. (will replace 78 east of Ridge Hill) 78 now serves Getty Square-Stew Leonard's/Ridge Hill only.

How much service would you give it?

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Your argument isn't one of coverage, it's one of (insufficient) service....

Add whatever service levels you think that immediate part of Purchase should have to the 12 during the rush & the only thing would be lost is directly running inside complex that houses the Mastercard bldg's & Purchase Centre... Are those buildings really worth having the BL-3 running to Purchase, over adding (whatever you consider would be) commensurate service for Purchase, to the 12?

 

* The same logic was used when Bee line (eventually) got it right with the (non) serving of that bloomingdale's in white plains....

Back in either 2009 or 2010, they swapped the 20 & 14 terminals in white plains (which meant the 20 ended at E.J. Conroy & the 14 went over to the Bloomingdales; way too much patronage on the 20 to have that route serve what few amt. of ppl. from the transcenter, onward, needed to get there).... Why they chose the 14 in-particular for the task is anyone's guess, but the point to be made is:

Look where the both of those routes terminate in White Plains now - Sure as hell isn't at the Bloomingdale's... Lol.

 

 

As for other routes that could use some form of improvement, off top, I have a couple, I guess:

 

- the 14 should stop at MNRR Croton-Harmon, since it doesn't stop at MNRR Ossining... I've seen people wait for 14's & disembark 14's for the RR station.... I actually did the reverse (got off MNRR for the 14 towards Peekskill), and that walk isn't anything to scoff at....

- I haven't thought of which particular route should do this, but the fact that there's nothing connecting MNRR Valhalla to WCC/WMC is baffling to me.... This is another reason why there's so much patronage for the 40/41 north of the WP transcenter....

- all 13 trips should end at MNRR Port Chester - but instead of the last stop being on broad st, it should be right where the Stamford #11 bus route makes its first pickup stop (on main st, just north of westchester av) - adee > abendroth > westchester would be the turnaround.. Buses would layover at the current first pickup stop of the 13 at Port Chester (under the RR tracks)...

- the 75 would be an all day route, instead of a seasonal route... It would run between the state line (where the 61 takes its layover at (not the last stop)) & Playland via Kohl's shopping center..... Way too much to explain, I would have to draw it up on a map.

- Don't know how to say this, other than... I think the 60 is too local (too slow) & the 62 is too express... I think there should be a variant that doesn't make all those stops the 60 does, but doesn't exactly go straight to the Platinum Mile corridor from New Roc' like the 62 does..... Guess it can be called the 60x or whatever.... Haven't thought up a routing or stop listing as of yet...

- Either the 52 or the 55 should run down to PBP via co-op city (I happen to favor the 52)...

 

Aside from what's been mentioned earlier in this discussion (the 1, 6, 32, etc), that's all I got for now.

 

 

How much service would you give it?

It would definitely get increased service. I say 30-40 minute headways. Hardly anybody takes the 26 from Cross County to Bronxville, but people would take it to Stew Leonard's/Ridge Hill

[Q101 E Midtown]

Don't know why I didn't notice this when it was first posted... anyway:

 

1/2: I think this should be done with the 2 only.... The city line shorties on the 1 is what I have a problem with at it is.

Give all the late night service to the 2 b/w the & Getty Sq. & call it a day.... Make life easier...

 

4: I don't think this is necessary... I also think folks along McLean b/w Park Hill & Central Park av would disapprove of it....

Agree with Yonkers having a late night link to the Bronx, but if the 4 doesn't get overnight service, should an overnight 1 or 2 be extended to Bedford Park Station?

[B35 via Church]

Agree with Yonkers having a late night link to the Bronx, but if the 4 doesn't get overnight service, should an overnight 1 or 2 be extended to Bedford Park Station?

...from 242nd st subway? I would say not....

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Bee Line has way too many NABIs. they gotta use more Orion V's or at least Orion VII's. 

They should never have sold their original Orion V's to MTA

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Bee Line has way too many NABIs. they gotta use more Orion V's or at least Orion VII's. 

They should never have sold their original Orion V's to MTA

Well, the MTA was in desperate need of those when they bought them. Those Orion V's were gonna be retired regardless.

Your argument isn't one of coverage, it's one of (insufficient) service....

Add whatever service levels you think that immediate part of Purchase should have to the 12 during the rush & the only thing would be lost is directly running inside complex that houses the Mastercard bldg's & Purchase Centre... Are those buildings really worth having the BL-3 running to Purchase, over adding (whatever you consider would be) commensurate service for Purchase, to the 12?

 

* The same logic was used when Bee line (eventually) got it right with the (non) serving of that bloomingdale's in white plains....

Back in either 2009 or 2010, they swapped the 20 & 14 terminals in white plains (which meant the 20 ended at E.J. Conroy & the 14 went over to the Bloomingdales; way too much patronage on the 20 to have that route serve what few amt. of ppl. from the transcenter, onward, needed to get there).... Why they chose the 14 in-particular for the task is anyone's guess, but the point to be made is:

Look where the both of those routes terminate in White Plains now - Sure as hell isn't at the Bloomingdale's... Lol.

 

 

As for other routes that could use some form of improvement, off top, I have a couple, I guess:

 

- the 14 should stop at MNRR Croton-Harmon, since it doesn't stop at MNRR Ossining... I've seen people wait for 14's & disembark 14's for the RR station.... I actually did the reverse (got off MNRR for the 14 towards Peekskill), and that walk isn't anything to scoff at....

- I haven't thought of which particular route should do this, but the fact that there's nothing connecting MNRR Valhalla to WCC/WMC is baffling to me.... This is another reason why there's so much patronage for the 40/41 north of the WP transcenter....

- all 13 trips should end at MNRR Port Chester - but instead of the last stop being on broad st, it should be right where the Stamford #11 bus route makes its first pickup stop (on main st, just north of westchester av) - adee > abendroth > westchester would be the turnaround.. Buses would layover at the current first pickup stop of the 13 at Port Chester (under the RR tracks)...

- the 75 would be an all day route, instead of a seasonal route... It would run between the state line (where the 61 takes its layover at (not the last stop)) & Playland via Kohl's shopping center..... Way too much to explain, I would have to draw it up on a map.

- Don't know how to say this, other than... I think the 60 is too local (too slow) & the 62 is too express... I think there should be a variant that doesn't make all those stops the 60 does, but doesn't exactly go straight to the Platinum Mile corridor from New Roc' like the 62 does..... Guess it can be called the 60x or whatever.... Haven't thought up a routing or stop listing as of yet...

- Either the 52 or the 55 should run down to PBP via co-op city (I happen to favor the 52)...

 

Aside from what's been mentioned earlier in this discussion (the 1, 6, 32, etc), that's all I got for now.

 

 

How much service would you give it?

If it could be added to the 12, then I guess that could work. I was digging up old bus schedule from before, and managed to find a Loop E schedule (forgot that route even existed). Anyways, the headways would be that of Shuttle Loop E (which was every 30 minutes in the AM/PM approximately). All 12 buses would also serve the same buildings Route 3/Loop E served (peak buses to the north in the PM, to White Plains in the AM would go via Anderson Hill Road).

 

As for the 14 , since it does give the station a "full time" connection, I would approve of that.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Continued from above because, well, several things happened.

 

14- It kinda amazes me that there isn't a connection to the RR Station (well, a direct connection, other than walking from Riverside to the station. I know the 10 and 11 do that, but they don't serve the community for the most part (besides Riverside Avenue). It should be tried out though, runtime would only change by around 5 minutes at most.

 

13/75- So essentially, such route would run on the 13 from Rye to Portchester, and then via North Main to the state line, or is it something different. What would be the new headway for this route (it would also have to connect to the MNRR at Rye/Port Chester and the 13 . As for as cutting the 13 down to Port Chester, though, I agree. The route is way too long from end to end, almost like the 14. The difference is, the 14 serves many individual areas without other bus services, while the 13 has elongated it's route to cover a portion of other routes. They could've just had the 76 timed with the 13 at Port Chester, but I guess Bee Line wanted to save that DH cost for the 76. 

 

60- So it essentially would be a 60 Limited (I'll just say 59 since Bee Line labels their limited stop routes differently). 

 

As for my choice of stop selection (in this case): I would do: Fordham, Southern Blvd , then Allerton Avenue, East Gun Hill Road, Eastchester Road, Baychester Avenue, Dyre Avenue, Ropes Avenue, Pelhamdale Avenue, Weyham Avenue, Boston Post/ Hugenot, North Avenue, Beach Avenue, Larchmont R.R, Palmer/Weaver, Mamaroneck R.R, and then local to White Plains.

[40MntVrn]

I always felt that there should be more midday limited service. If you've never rode a 20 or 40 at 12PM you'd know why. When I'd travel to White Plains at that time, buses would be crush loaded and would make every stop along the route.