Bee Line, Ct. Transit and Northern suburbs bus proposal thread

[B35 via Church]

If it could be added to the 12, then I guess that could work.

 

I was digging up old bus schedule from before, and managed to find a Loop E schedule (forgot that route even existed). Anyways, the headways would be that of Shuttle Loop E (which was every 30 minutes in the AM/PM approximately). All 12 buses would also serve the same buildings Route 3/Loop E served (peak buses to the north in the PM, to White Plains in the AM would go via Anderson Hill Road).

Yes, I remember loop E - usage was worse on that loop than than of loop T (which also got the axe back sometime in 2012)...

 

So to replace the 3, you would/could have 12's looping to (directly) serve the MasterCard bldg's, Purchase Centre, and (whatever company now occupies the old Texaco bldg.) down there where the E vans used to end?

 

Regardless of my disagreement, there's one issue (part in red)....

The commuters that utilize the loop buses are coming from the RR in the AM & going towards it in the PM, not the other way around.... Having Peak buses to the north in the PM to serve mastercard/Purchase Centre & the old Texaco bldg is representative of a reverse commute (meaning, from those complexes, towards the Airport)... Nobody's doing this... Lol....

 

What it sounds like what you'd like to accomplish is to have 12's (while along Purchase st) directly serve the old Texaco bldg. site, the Mastercard bldg's/Purchase Centre complex, & Manhattan Coll..... If that's the case, then running along Anderson Hill would be of zero benefit....

 

As for the 14 , since it does give the station a "full time" connection, I would approve of that.... It kinda amazes me that there isn't a connection to the RR Station (well, a direct connection, other than walking from Riverside to the station. I know the 10 and 11 do that, but they don't serve the community for the most part (besides Riverside Avenue). It should be tried out though, runtime would only change by around 5 minutes at most.

 

13/75- So essentially, such route would run on the 13 from Rye to Portchester, and then via North Main to the state line, or is it something different. What would be the new headway for this route (it would also have to connect to the MNRR at Rye/Port Chester and the 13 . As for as cutting the 13 down to Port Chester, though, I agree. The route is way too long from end to end, almost like the 14. The difference is, the 14 serves many individual areas without other bus services, while the 13 has elongated it's route to cover a portion of other routes. They could've just had the 76 timed with the 13 at Port Chester, but I guess Bee Line wanted to save that DH cost for the 76. 

 

60- So it essentially would be a 60 Limited (I'll just say 59 since Bee Line labels their limited stop routes differently). 

 

As for my choice of stop selection (in this case): I would do: Fordham, Southern Blvd , then Allerton Avenue, East Gun Hill Road, Eastchester Road, Baychester Avenue, Dyre Avenue, Ropes Avenue, Pelhamdale Avenue, Weyham Avenue, Boston Post/ Hugenot, North Avenue, Beach Avenue, Larchmont R.R, Palmer/Weaver, Mamaroneck R.R, and then local to White Plains.

- I get why the 14 doesn't serve MNRR Ossining, but MNRR Croton-Harmon, IDK....

 

If it has anything to do with the 10 & the 11, that's just retarded IMO; as the 10, 11, and 14 all have very different purposes.... It's akin to not having the Q11 run along Woodhaven because the Q52/3 & the QM15/16/17 serves the corridor (see how dumb that is)...

 

But yeah, The 10 is a commuter route that transports Shrub Oak & Yorktown folks to the RR station, The 11 is an express that's ehh, more or less a combination of the 13 & 14 that goes as far as the RR station (Croton-Harmon), and the 14 is a pure local route.... The 10 needs to serve the RR station more than the 11 does, so the 10 is out.... Left with the 11 & the 14, the 11 simply (conveniently) terminates at the RR station, while BL-14 riders are left out - when it is riders on the 14 (from the north or from the south) that would easily benefit from a direct connection to the RR station, over riders on the 11..... Don't get me started with the walk from the 14 to MNRR Peekskill (along Washington) down that long steep ass slope (along Hudson)....

 

To sum it up, the 11 gets the preference of serving the RR station over the 14 because buses (I'm assuming) aren't allowed to terminate within Croton-Hudson (when it could probably steal a couple folks from off the 14 to/from white plains during peak times by doing so).... That just sucks.

 

 

- The 75 route would take on this routing... Any questions, ask.

(the map around Kohl's looks like a mess, I know.... but the general idea is to loop in & out of Kohl's (after directly stopping there of course), to have buses get back to serving Midland av)

 

- With the 60, Yup.... basically a LTD.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yes, I remember loop E - usage was worse on that loop than than of loop T (which also got the axe back sometime in 2012)...

 

So to replace the 3, you would/could have 12's looping to (directly) serve the MasterCard bldg's, Purchase Centre, and (whatever company now occupies the old Texaco bldg.) down there where the E vans used to end?

 

Regardless of my disagreement, there's one issue (part in red)....

The commuters that utilize the loop buses are coming from the RR in the AM & going towards it in the PM, not the other way around.... Having Peak buses to the north in the PM to serve mastercard/Purchase Centre & the old Texaco bldg is representative of a reverse commute (meaning, from those complexes, towards the Airport)... Nobody's doing this... Lol....

 

What it sounds like what you'd like to accomplish is to have 12's (while along Purchase st) directly serve the old Texaco bldg. site, the Mastercard bldg's/Purchase Centre complex, & Manhattan Coll..... If that's the case, then running along Anderson Hill would be of zero benefit....

 

- I get why the 14 doesn't serve MNRR Ossining, but MNRR Croton-Harmon, IDK....

 

If it has anything to do with the 10 & the 11, that's just retarded IMO; as the 10, 11, and 14 all have very different purposes.... It's akin to not having the Q11 run along Woodhaven because the Q52/3 & the QM15/16/17 serves the corridor (see how dumb that is)...

 

But yeah, The 10 is a commuter route that transports Shrub Oak & Yorktown folks to the RR station, The 11 is an express that's ehh, more or less a combination of the 13 & 14 that goes as far as the RR station (Croton-Harmon), and the 14 is a pure local route.... The 10 needs to serve the RR station more than the 11 does, so the 10 is out.... Left with the 11 & the 14, the 11 simply (conveniently) terminates at the RR station, while BL-14 riders are left out - when it is riders on the 14 (from the north or from the south) that would easily benefit from a direct connection to the RR station, over riders on the 11..... Don't get me started with the walk from the 14 to MNRR Peekskill (along Washington) down that long steep ass slope (along Hudson)....

 

To sum it up, the 11 gets the preference of serving the RR station over the 14 because buses (I'm assuming) aren't allowed to terminate within Croton-Hudson (when it could probably steal a couple folks from off the 14 to/from white plains during peak times by doing so).... That just sucks.

 

 

- The 75 route would take on this routing... Any questions, ask.

(the map around Kohl's looks like a mess, I know.... but the general idea is to loop in & out of Kohl's (after directly stopping there of course), to have buses get back to serving Midland av)

 

- With the 60, Yup.... basically a LTD.

I'm stating that the peak direction buses would run via Anderson Hill Road (towards White Plains in the AM, from White Plains in the PM.) The buses in the opposite direction would remain running the current route, and along the buildings that Route 3 serves), during middays, service runs in both directions, however the Mastercard and Stanley Morgan buildings are not served. Maybe it's because the 14 serves Cortlandlt Station, and Bee Line basically wants everyone to make connections there, or (for the riders within Croton Harmon), ridership isn't as high in order to add the service. For whatever the reason is, I think the 14 should serve Croton Harmon R.R Station (well at least during midday hours on weekdays and Saturdays. 

 

I would terminate the 11 at Ossning R.R, but since it travels in the reverse peak direction (vice versa for the Poughkeepsie express trains), they don't stop at Ossning. 

 

In addition, Peekskill R.R isn't served by bus during off peak hours. I think that should change, but the problem is the bus structuring there. The 14 is long as it is. The 15 could serve it, but it's really infrequent, and layover is tight as is, for a long route. The 16 could serve it, but layover is tight (on both sides of the route). The only 15 to serve Peekskill would be the 7:53 AM bus from WP, arriving the station at 9:45 AM (giving 10 minutes to make connections to the NYC train, and 4 minutes to the Poughkeepsie Train). It would leave at 10:15 towards White Plains. Otherwise, it would be really hard to schedule service there. 

 

75- So that would be about 25-35 minutes extra of runtime (holy shit, didn't know the 13 took a similar amount of runtime between those two points), in addition to 5 minutes after Port Chester (6 because of dwell time at Port Chester). So runtime would be around 31 minutes to 41 minutes of runtime. I don't know what headways you would have for this route, but I would have the new 75 runtime at 30 minutes during peak hours, 60 minutes off peak hours. On Saturdays, I'm not sure what the 75's headways are during the summer, but that would be the headway on Saturdays, from 8 AM to 6:30 PM (Port Chester) and 8:35 AM to 7:05 PM (From Playland). During the summer, the 75's that currently run Non-stop between Rye R.R and Playland would be the 75X (during weekdays too). 

 

Another thing is that I feel that the 45 should get an extra round trip in the evening on weekdays. Trip would leave at 8:20 PM to Pelham Bay, and then go back up at 9:20 PM TO Eastchester, on weekdays. On Sundays, a new 6:10 PM trip would be added to Eastchester.  

I always felt that there should be more midday limited service. If you've never rode a 20 or 40 at 12PM you'd know why. When I'd travel to White Plains at that time, buses would be crush loaded and would make every stop along the route.

When I used to ride Bee Line Buses, on Saturdays, I would always take crushloaded 20's. By Woodlawn, the bus had a full load, and the bus wouldn't die down in ridership until cross-county, sometimes even past that. I feel like there should be a slight increase, but the buses from North of Cross-County be limiteds at points south, I don't know that would exactly work without screwing up the schedules majorly. 

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Ashburton Avenue is overserved way too much. There is no way they need five routes on Ashburton Ave.

1X, 3, 9, 25, 30. 78

Is there really that much of a demand on Ashburton? I would keep the 25 & 30, and even the 9. but the 1X, 3 and 78 can go elsewhere

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Ashburton Avenue is overserved way too much. There is no way they need five routes on Ashburton Ave.

1X, 3, 9, 25, 30. 78

Is there really that much of a demand on Ashburton? I would keep the 25 & 30, and even the 9. but the 1X, 3 and 78 can go elsewhere

The 1X/3 dont make regular stops on Ashburton. The remaining buses all run at hourly headways during most periods of the day (except for the 25 and 78 in the morning).The 9 is weekdays only, and the 30 doesnt run on Sundays. The 25 only runs until 8PM until Sunday, and the 78 runs hourly until late evening.

 

In addition, Ashubrton isnt even a major corridor. Its just the most simplest way to get to/from Getty Square. Besides, they take their respective paths afterwards.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

The 1X/3 dont make regular stops on Ashburton. The remaining buses all run at hourly headways during most periods of the day (except for the 25 and 78 in the morning).The 9 is weekdays only, and the 30 doesnt run on Sundays. The 25 only runs until 8PM until Sunday, and the 78 runs hourly until late evening.

 

In addition, Ashubrton isnt even a major corridor. Its just the most simplest way to get to/from Getty Square. Besides, they take their respective paths afterwards.

the 78 could use Nepperhan Ave down to New Main St which would be faster than Ashburton. And the 1X/3 should at least use North Broadway to Ashburton in the AM because Palisade Ave has too much traffic

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

the 78 could use Nepperhan Ave down to New Main St which would be faster than Ashburton. And the 1X/3 should at least use North Broadway to Ashburton in the AM because Palisade Ave has too much traffic

The 5 already does that though, so it's not really worth it, since 5 service is frequent, and it's not such a big corridor to worry about the routing.  Maybe the 1X/3 can be considered, if traffic really fubar's the line. If not, then Palisade wouldn't be such a bad option. 

[B35 via Church]

I'm stating that the peak direction buses would run via Anderson Hill Road (towards White Plains in the AM, from White Plains in the PM.) The buses in the opposite direction would remain running the current route, and along the buildings that Route 3 serves), during middays, service runs in both directions, however the Mastercard and Stanley Morgan buildings are not served.

Explain how peak buses running along Anderson Hill Road would serve the Mastercard bldg., Purchase Centre, and the old Texaco Bldg (that the old loop E used to serve)... You are not making that clear.

 

I would terminate the 11 at Ossning R.R, but since it travels in the reverse peak direction (vice versa for the Poughkeepsie express trains), they don't stop at Ossning. 

 

In addition, Peekskill R.R isn't served by bus during off peak hours. I think that should change, but the problem is the bus structuring there. The 14 is long as it is. The 15 could serve it, but it's really infrequent, and layover is tight as is, for a long route. The 16 could serve it, but layover is tight (on both sides of the route). The only 15 to serve Peekskill would be the 7:53 AM bus from WP, arriving the station at 9:45 AM (giving 10 minutes to make connections to the NYC train, and 4 minutes to the Poughkeepsie Train). It would leave at 10:15 towards White Plains. Otherwise, it would be really hard to schedule service there. 

The 15 empties out at Main/James st (Peekskill), so these aren't people that want/need the RR station... The 14 coming from Cortlandt town ctr. diverting to MNRR Peekskill would be a waste of time (one reason it doesn't directly serve MNRR Ossining).... The 16 would be the route that would benefit the most people needing the RR in that part of Westchester, but it's not exactly feasible to have it serve it.....

 

75- So that would be about 25-35 minutes extra of runtime (holy shit, didn't know the 13 took a similar amount of runtime between those two points), in addition to 5 minutes after Port Chester (6 because of dwell time at Port Chester). So runtime would be around 31 minutes to 41 minutes of runtime. I don't know what headways you would have for this route, but I would have the new 75 runtime at 30 minutes during peak hours, 60 minutes off peak hours. On Saturdays, I'm not sure what the 75's headways are during the summer, but that would be the headway on Saturdays, from 8 AM to 6:30 PM (Port Chester) and 8:35 AM to 7:05 PM (From Playland). During the summer, the 75's that currently run Non-stop between Rye R.R and Playland would be the 75X (during weekdays too). 

Exactly the same service as you just posted..... It wouldn't need more service than that.

And yeah, the idea is to take that runtime from off the 13...

 

Ashburton Avenue is overserved way too much. There is no way they need five routes on Ashburton Ave.

1X, 3, 9, 25, 30. 78

Is there really that much of a demand on Ashburton? I would keep the 25 & 30, and even the 9. but the 1X, 3 and 78 can go elsewhere

It's not about demand for 5 routes on Ashburton, BM5 is right - it's a matter of routing feasibility.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1.Explain how peak buses running along Anderson Hill Road would serve the Mastercard bldg., Purchase Centre, and the old Texaco Bldg (that the old loop E used to serve)... You are not making that clear.

 

2. The 15 empties out at Main/James st (Peekskill), so these aren't people that want/need the RR station... The 14 coming from Cortlandt town ctr. diverting to MNRR Peekskill would be a waste of time (one reason it doesn't directly serve MNRR Ossining).... The 16 would be the route that would benefit the most people needing the RR in that part of Westchester, but it's not exactly feasible to have it serve it.....

 

3.Exactly the same service as you just posted..... It wouldn't need more service than that.

And yeah, the idea is to take that runtime from off the 13...

 

1.They wouldn't. The buses from Armonk in the morning would only serve Manhattanville College. The buses to Armonk in the afternoon would do the same thing. During middays, and in the reverse-peak direction during the rush, the 12's would run via all buildings.

 

2. I thought of the 16, but the routing is too difficult to change there (service runs like a C, and the looping back would add like 10 minutes to travel, besides the fact that the extended routing would mean that another bus would have to be added too.

 

3.Yeah, I think the 13 has too much burden on itself. Cutting back to Port Chester would change some of that, and help manage resources better on the most used portions of the route.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

on another thought. send the 5 down Riverdale Ave to the City Line to help out the 8

[BxM4Woodlawn]

here's a list of what routes should be running artics and not.

1/2: artics only in rush hours peak direction, and maybe on weekday/saturday evenings.

3: most trips in both directions

4: all rush hour trips and select trips outside rush hour

5: all rush hour trips/select trips outside rush hour

6: with the new proposed route, almost every trip should run artics

7: every trip except morning short turns to Mt Vernon

8: select rush hour and mid day trips

14: rush hours only

20/21: every trip no matter the destination, except for late night 20X trips.

25: select rush hour trips

40/41: rush hour trips/select trips outside rush hour, but cut down on them.

42: rush hours peak direction

45: rush hours both directions

60: rush hours/ most trips outside rush hours. (non artic 60's are too jam packed) cut all artics on the 62

61: rush hours only

 

12/26/63/66/78 and all commuter trips need to use some mini Orion V's on a few trips.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

here's a list of what routes should be running artics and not.

1/2: artics only in rush hours peak direction, and maybe on weekday/saturday evenings.

3: most trips in both directions

4: all rush hour trips and select trips outside rush hour

5: all rush hour trips/select trips outside rush hour

6: with the new proposed route, almost every trip should run artics

7: every trip except morning short turns to Mt Vernon

8: select rush hour and mid day trips

14: rush hours only

20/21: every trip no matter the destination, except for late night 20X trips.

25: select rush hour trips

40/41: rush hour trips/select trips outside rush hour, but cut down on them.

42: rush hours peak direction

45: rush hours both directions

60: rush hours/ most trips outside rush hours. (non artic 60's are too jam packed) cut all artics on the 62

61: rush hours only

 

12/26/63/66/78 and all commuter trips need to use some mini Orion V's on a few trips.

Dont agree with the ones in red; they can be utilized better in other areas. 

 

As for usage of the Mini Orion V's, isn't PLTA the only operator with that fleet (besides the Loop buses, if they still use them). If yes, that will be impossible for the routes mentioned.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

Dont agree with the ones in red; they can be utilized better in other areas. 

 

As for usage of the Mini Orion V's, isn't PLTA the only operator with that fleet (besides the Loop buses, if they still use them). If yes, that will be impossible for the routes mentioned.

the 9 still uses them. so the others could as well. And the 32 could use a few as well

[B35 via Church]

on another thought. send the 5 down Riverdale Ave to the City Line to help out the 8

Overkill.... The 8 doesn't need a supplement; Riverdale av doesn't remotely have the usage for this.

You don't send another route over a portion of a route because the initial route has problems with sluggishness/lateness....

 

In layman's, the 8 doesn't need that kind of help....

 

here's a list of what routes should be running artics and not.

 

1/2: artics only in rush hours peak direction, and maybe on weekday/saturday evenings.

3: most trips in both directions

4: all rush hour trips and select trips outside rush hour

5: all rush hour trips/select trips outside rush hour

6: with the new proposed route, almost every trip should run artics

7: every trip except morning short turns to Mt Vernon

8: select rush hour and mid day trips

14: rush hours only

20/21: every trip no matter the destination, except for late night 20X trips.

25: select rush hour trips

40/41: rush hour trips/select trips outside rush hour, but cut down on them.

42: rush hours peak direction

45: rush hours both directions

60: rush hours/ most trips outside rush hours. (non artic 60's are too jam packed) cut all artics on the 62

61: rush hours only.....

I'll do it like this:

 

None of the 1's should have artics on weekends... Only the 2 should have them on saturday nights...

 

The 3 should have them on the PM trips only (AM trips don't need them near as much, since the masses from the Bronx aren't going past Yonkers on the 3 - they're used as supplements to the 1's & the 2 in the morning)... With the PM 3 trips, these are people that aren't using 5's, 6's, and 1W's to get back to Yonkers/The Bronx (1w)... In other words, there are more people using 3's on the PM trips from White plains than there are on the AM trips to White Plains.....

 

Select trips should have them on the 4 throughout the day (all of those rush hour trips on the 40' don't be packed).... Agree with the 5 during the rush - outside of it, nah, not so much... With the routing I proposed for the 6, all of the trips emanating from the Bronx would run artics.... Of the ones that would (still) emanate from Yonkers, some of those trips would have artics, some won't....

 

Agree with you with the 7.... With the 8, some rush hour trips should run artics, however, you don't really need artics on off peak trips... With the 14, none of those White Plains to [north-of-White Plains] routes should be running artics (the 40 doesn't count, since it runs south of White Plains as well)...

 

20/21, yeah, it should continue to be an all artic route.... Agree with you with the 25... Agree with you with the 40/41 (and this coincides with what I'm saying about the 4)... Agree with you with the 42... I wouldn't have all peak trips on the 45 having artics ran on them.... The 60 should be an all artic route.... Conversely, the 61 shouldn't have artics on them at all (you say yourself the 40' on the 60's are too crushloaded, which is true).... The 62 I agree with you on, route doesn't need artics (the 62 isn't nearly as patronized as the 3 & the 43 as lower westchester - white plains expresses)....

 

Dont agree with the ones in red {3,8,14,25,61,62}; they can be utilized better in other areas......

Your general statement doesn't make sense for the 62....

By disagreeing with what he's saying with the 62, that would support the running of artics on that route....

[Q43LTD]

I wouldn't cut artics on the 62...they need them just as much as the 60 does. I wouldn't dare put a 40 footer on the 60. About the 20/21, I would make the White Plains trips artic, the Cross County trips would be 40 footers. I wouldn't extend the 6 to Mt St Vincent either. The 8 doesn't need to help

[B35 via Church]

I wouldn't cut artics on the 62...they need them just as much as the 60 does. I wouldn't dare put a 40 footer on the 60. About the 20/21, I would make the White Plains trips artic, the Cross County trips would be 40 footers. I wouldn't extend the 6 to Mt St Vincent either. The 8 doesn't need to help

Which is worse, [putting a 40' on the 60] or [cutting artics on the 62]?

Something has to give.....

[BxM4Woodlawn]

okay, why should the 2 get more artics than the 1? They are the same route between 242nd St & Getty Square, which is the only reason they would get artics in the first place.

And the 60 can not fun 40 footers. I used to take that bus to school every day and I rode 40 footers on it quite often. They were JAM PACKED!

The 40 could use more 40 footers than the 60. 

 

The 62 can definitely do without artics, but the 3, 21 and even the 41 need them. 

 

And I take back artics on the 61. It doesnt need 'em. The 61 is pretty much the 60's little brother.

[B35 via Church]

okay, why should the 2 get more artics than the 1? They are the same route between 242nd St & Getty Square, which is the only reason they would get artics in the first place.

 

And the 60 can not fun 40 footers. I used to take that bus to school every day and I rode 40 footers on it quite often. They were JAM PACKED!......

- Ignoring your little attitude there.... To answer your question, the point isn't one of that the 1 & the 2 is the same route b/w the Bronx & Getty Sq.... Between the 1 (short trips) and the 2, the 2 carries more north of Getty Sq on weekends; Tudor Woods garners more ridership alone than anything on the 1 b/w the hastings border & Getty Sq. (not inclusive) - including during the PM hours.... So again, on weekends, you don't need artics on both the 1 & 2 - and since the 2 has more patronage north of Getty Sq, run them on the 2 & call it a day..... You run 60' over 40' for capacity reasons....

 

My comment was specifically catered to weekends, where you mentioned saturday evenings.....

---------------------------

 

 

- B35 Church said: "The 60 should be an all artic route...."

BM5 Woodhaven said:... Nothing (he did not disagree with you by highlighting the 60 in red that it did not warrant artics)

Q43LTD said: ".....I wouldn't dare put a 40 footer on the 60."

 

Nobody here so far is supporting running 40' on the 60, so there was no need for further justification about you taking it to school every day with them being jam packed....

[BxM4Woodlawn]

alright

[78 via Stew Leonards]

the 1 needs to be extended to Dobbs Ferry full time

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

the 1 needs to be extended to Dobbs Ferry full time

I don't see why that needs to be done given that the 6 serves it daily. However I wouldn't be against a boost in Sunday service on that line.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

which gets more ridership, the 5 between White Plains & Harrison, or the 6 between White Plains & Pleasantville?

[beelinefan]

Hopefully bee line will get more artics than it currently has when they replace the current artics to allow for more artic service on the heavier lines.

[78 via Stew Leonards]

Hopefully bee line will get more artics than it currently has when they replace the current artics to allow for more artic service on the heavier lines.

The 1/2 do not need them outside of Rush Hours. 

the 5/6 can use them at select times.  

the 8 needs a few of them.

[GreatOne2k]

the 1 needs to be extended to Dobbs Ferry full time

 

Just run the 1W on Sundays at 80 minute headways

[78 via Stew Leonards]

Just run the 1W on Sundays at 80 minute headways

if Bee-Line did that, they'd probably run it at 2 hr headways