NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[qjtransitmaster]

Rt. 36 doesn't go to Asbury Park so it doesn't duplicate it completely. You have to remember the difference between duplicating and paralleling. The 847 parallels Academy Route 36 until East Long Branch, after that its on its own until it meets up with the Shore Points line and they parallel each other to Asbury Park. If it duplicated it, it would go to NYC and it would end in Long Branch.

It doesn't make a difference what it runs alongside. All that matters is having a bus serve Monmouth Racetrack Inaccurate bus service would only run for race days when demand is there otherwise it will carry air on that segment sort of. 847 completely duplicates Academy's shore points south of Long branch and rte 71 ain't helping 837 is there too. North it copies rte 36 line completely there is no part of the route that 847 has to itself. Power up existing service and this 847 won't be needed.

 

I originally wanted it to go to Keansburg, but google maps was acting stupid.

 

First off, calm down. There's no need to fly off the handle like that. Second, To tell you the truth Suburban won't care about how or where that bus runs. As long as its not affecting their runs (which it won't since it's only passing through New Brunswick) everything will be fine. See that's how I think, if I make a route that's near a contracted or existing line, I try to make sure that the most it does is share a road and a few stops with it NJT is NOT allowed to duplicate routes run by CUSA suburban therefore the only way this can be done is if suburban 300/600 extends via rte 518 OR NJT 655 extends via 518 to flemington and rte 31. NJT is forbidden from running buses from NYC in certain areas served by NJT private carrier services. NJT has no bus on rte 27 south of N brunswick cause CUSA runs there so NJT is not allowed there as CUSA has the route.

 

Nah, leave the 92 in South Orange. It connects with my 95 better Nope 92 renders 95 not needed or otherwise But I would make 95 if a separate line go to livingston mall then become livingston ave roseland ave crosstown replacing parts of 71/73 which will both be restructured as a result. You did give me an idea actually.

 

Yeah, but this more direct. People going from Trenton to Philly who don't wanna use the SEPTA train can use this instead.

This is another route with road sharing. The only stop it makes on US-130 is Burlington. From there it goes straight to Philadelphia Not good enough reason 409 is fast and Those people who do not want to use SEPTA train or train to Philly DO NOT EXIST. If SEPTA adds express trains for more hours then this bus line will fail indefinitely buses do not exist to copy or take people off trains they exist to complement and contribute to the network. This express bus is just as slow as the train so it's USELESS. A bus only is better than a train if it a serves a completely different market like 551's avandale vs Atlantic city line. Or is way faster like in the case of boltbus/megabus vs NJT/SEPTA. Or academy vs NJCL where it's faster to reach NYC. Or more reliable one problem I-295 is a clusterf**k.

 

I don't have time to research every single bus route in NJ. I have school, homework, and a life. I make these routes when I have free time.

 

That was what made some of your ideas flawed based on bold.

 

not digging the 95 route. No need to extend any of the crosstown routes (90s) or create a new one

 

Interesting.

[go25]

What is interesting?

[qjtransitmaster]

What is interesting?

 

Your say about the 90s.

[DaTransitMan4608]

@QJT: Look I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but it seems like you're trying to find flaws in my routes. I'm sorry I don't have time to examine every single NJT route in NJ, but I don't make these routes without putting thought into them. If another route was nearby or shared a road with an existing route, then that doesn't mean it will fail. You have to get that mentality out of your head.Some of the reasons routes fail due to low ridership is because they don't make a strong enough presence for people to notice them. That's the real reason why the 61 failed, not because the NJCL was there. I make some of these routes so people don't have to walk across town to catch current ones or wait another hour to catch a bus they missed.

 

To tell you the truth, at the last minute I wanted that bus to go to Long Branch or Middletown, but if edited it on google maps, it would throw the route completely out of whack. It's truly meant to serve Monmouth Racetrack on a seasonal basis. EDIT: I just changed it, so now it serves Long Branch full time and Monmouth Park seasonally.

 

 

About my 847, I made that route because if one were to go to Keansburg from Asbury Park they would have to take two Academy buses. No one likes transferring between two buses. And if one were to use that connection between Shore Points & Route 36, they wouldn't get to Keansburg since buses coming from Long Branch don't serve Keansburg .And transferring at Sea Bright won't do them any better. They'd be wasting their time and money. Plus like I said before, all it does is share Ocean Ave/Route 71 with Shore Points. It doesn't duplicate it in any other way besides that.

 

The 95 is going to get changed. It will still originate at South Orange, but I'm still deciding on where to send it.

[go25]

Your say about the 90s.

 

 

Your point? Lets be real, i have rode the 90, 92, 94 and 99 routes and those routes gets busy. No need to tweak them. At best almost all routes in Essex county don't need no expanding (the 30 needs one though)

[qjtransitmaster]

Your point? Lets be real, i have rode the 90, 92, 94 and 99 routes and those routes gets busy. No need to tweak them. At best almost all routes in Essex county don't need no expanding (the 30 needs one though)

 

interesting your suggestion?

[go25]

interesting your suggestion?

 

 

Read at beginning of topic

[qjtransitmaster]

NJT lines that go express to another region are all well known so 61 earlier had no chance due to NJCL. To be honest I think 800 lines need better marketing so instead of 61 make 817 = the frequency of trains at south amboy.

 

 

 

@QJT: Look I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but it seems like you're trying to find flaws in my routes. I'm sorry I don't have time to examine every single NJT route in NJ, but I don't make these routes without putting thought into them. If another route was nearby or shared a road with an existing route, then that doesn't mean it will fail. You have to get that mentality out of your head.Some of the reasons routes fail due to low ridership is because they don't make a strong enough presence for people to notice them. That's the real reason why the 61 failed, not because the NJCL was there. I make some of these routes so people don't have to walk across town to catch current ones or wait another hour to catch a bus they missed.

 

To tell you the truth, at the last minute I wanted that bus to go to Long Branch or Middletown, but if edited it on google maps, it would throw the route completely out of whack. It's truly meant to serve Monmouth Racetrack on a seasonal basis. EDIT: I just changed it, so now it serves Long Branch full time and Monmouth Park seasonally.

 

 

About my 847, I made that route because if one were to go to Keansburg from Asbury Park they would have to take two Academy buses. No one likes transferring between two buses. And if one were to use that connection between Shore Points & Route 36, they wouldn't get to Keansburg since buses coming from Long Branch don't serve Keansburg .And transferring at Sea Bright won't do them any better. They'd be wasting their time and money. Plus like I said before, all it does is share Ocean Ave/Route 71 with Shore Points. It doesn't duplicate it in any other way besides that.

 

The 95 is going to get changed. It will still originate at South Orange, but I'm still deciding on where to send it.

 

Not if they have monthlies. However some of your routes are good BUT I prefer to tweak existing lines as much as possible to improve connectivity before introducing a new route to the mix. I prefer to avoid creating new local routes as I know the weaknesses of the 800s I have used several NJT lines all over the state and gained a good grasp of the statewide network to the point where I was able to catch their attention. For example here is my monmouth restructuring:

 

to link mercer to monmouth 613 splits into 603(west of TTC) and 613 (east of TTC) The 603 segment east is transferred to another route) More on that later.

 

613 extends via rte 130 then rte 130 shuttle gets axed 130 between hamilton NEC and marketplace merged with 604 via 604 extension 604 is short so this adds purpose to it.

 

613 continues via 130 to rte 33 then to freehold drops a part of 836 then continues to asbury park eliminating 836 and replacing it with a more frequent line. (phase 1)

 

818 modded into long distance line rush more service or interlined with 138 via ferry rd and rte 18 kills part of M3 and express to monmouth mall replaces 831 killing 831 in the process to LB then absorbs 837. (phase 1)

 

Another branch at rush may interline with 138 via regular current 818 route killing off MCAT M3 for redundancy then via rte 520 adding new service to redbank timed with NJCL for continued service to Long branch and the racetrack and links with academy and 60 for GSP bus services.

 

Add 835 rush hour service to time with ALL NJCL trains at red bank show connecting trains on new schedule. 835 will be as frequent as the NJCL perfecting connections. I will overlook 834 and 817 for clues.

 

New NJ to empire casino extend NJT188 via I-87 to cross county only 2 stops the casino and cross county at rush hr only the casino will be served closed door in westchester. Service adjusted based on ridership. You can board at GWB.

Edited November 23, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[SirJokaPlaya]

I think once NJ gets back to normal after Sandy's effects as well as getting through the Winter, I would like to see the following happen:

 

- 126 to continue to run on articulated buses on the rush hour times as well as maybe on the 128 during the peak hours.

 

- Bring the 188 back to Hoboken but on Rush Hour trips, so there is better service to those that travel to Hoboken and back as well as enticing people to go to GWB if needed instead of 42nd street or PATH

 

- Bring the 86 back to Nunguessers to rush hour service again to and from Exchange Place as well as service every hour to/from Newport Mall on weekends. There is a lot of people on the Park Avenue area that can benefit from this since there are times the 84P can turn into a sardine can.

[qjtransitmaster]

I think once NJ gets back to normal after Sandy's effects as well as getting through the Winter, I would like to see the following happen:

 

- 126 to continue to run on articulated buses on the rush hour times as well as maybe on the 128 during the peak hours.

 

- Bring the 188 back to Hoboken but on Rush Hour trips, so there is better service to those that travel to Hoboken and back as well as enticing people to go to GWB if needed instead of 42nd street or PATH

 

- Bring the 86 back to Nunguessers to rush hour service again to and from Exchange Place as well as service every hour to/from Newport Mall on weekends. There is a lot of people on the Park Avenue area that can benefit from this since there are times the 84P can turn into a sardine can.

 

188 err nope the HBLR eliminated any need for 188 to go to hoboken anyone looking for hoboken from river rd will just use 158 to HBLR from Port imperial station. So 84P is crushed add more 84Ps or make a LTD stop route and it's done.

 

If you are going to manhattan from Hoboken the fastest most efficient way is the PATH to the always will be or depending on where in manhattan you can use other subway lines like ect. But NO WAY are you going to get anybody to use a NJT bus from GWB to hoboken it will not happen. It just makes no sense to go to GWB period ever if your destination is hoboken. Your forgetting how hard it is for the average NYC native to reach GWB? A terminal served by only one subway line or 2 or none is not going to garner alot of commuter or Long distance bus users at all. In manhattan even if it's longer via PABT people will still use PABT why cause it's easy to reach via the subway from the outer boroughs GWB from NE queens is a bitch to reach you have to take 2 buses and a train the M60 to the then BX36 to GWB. only serves a part of the bronx.

 

GWB only helps if your near the and want to get to northern NJ north of rte 4 or north of I-80. LGA may lack subway service but is a major destination GWB is NOT a huge draw and is not located in an area people from NJ are flocking to in large crowds. What is near GWB or around exactly not much over there. Most continue on to either westchester or astoria or to LGA ect.

[SirJokaPlaya]

188 err nope the HBLR eliminated any need for 188 to go to hoboken anyone looking for hoboken from river rd will just use 158 to HBLR from Port imperial station. So 84P is crushed add more 84Ps or make a LTD stop route and it's done.

 

If you are going to manhattan from Hoboken the fastest most efficient way is the PATH to the always will be or depending on where in manhattan you can use other subway lines like ect. But NO WAY are you going to get anybody to use a NJT bus from GWB to hoboken it will not happen. It just makes no sense to go to GWB period ever if your destination is hoboken. Your forgetting how hard it is for the average NYC native to reach GWB? A terminal served by only one subway line or 2 or none is not going to garner alot of commuter or Long distance bus users at all. In manhattan even if it's longer via PABT people will still use PABT why cause it's easy to reach via the subway from the outer boroughs GWB from NE queens is a bitch to reach you have to take 2 buses and a train the M60 to the then BX36 to GWB. only serves a part of the bronx.

 

GWB only helps if your near the and want to get to northern NJ north of rte 4 or north of I-80. LGA may lack subway service but is a major destination GWB is NOT a huge draw and is not located in an area people from NJ are flocking to in large crowds. What is near GWB or around exactly not much over there. Most continue on to either westchester or astoria or to LGA ect.

 

 

I meant the 181. 188 never went to Hoboken. And let's nip this in the bud. NJT would love to go to NYC and beyond, but I do not see it happening. There is too many legalities with the city and the state that I do not see it coming to fruition anytime soon. Yes, LGA needs a subway service from PABT or from Grand Central, but that might take a while to come into play. I think a bus service from Kennedy or LaGuardia to Newark might work but I don't see it happening.

 

Hoboken has tons of workers that live in the Union City/West New York/North Bergen area. This would help with the 89 as well as the 22 with overcrowding, as both those buses can be crowded at times with also the people that is coming off the PATH trains getting back to their homes on Washington Street. Now, what I recommend is every hour during rush time, lets have some service from 6 to 9 to Hoboken and 3 to 8. This will help with OVERCROWDING once again, as well as help the 89 as from 10am to 7pm, the 89 can be SLAMMED with people getting to and from Hoboken. This helps the 89 with getting back on time, as well as help the operator have a chance for a break. I say this SINCE I used to do run 13 on the 89, and you need to MOVE or you will be late ALL THE TIME. When I did it, I was always late due to Bergenline traffic and Washington traffic. So late that when I got to Hoboken or Nunguessers, my 15 minute break was GONE and I had to IMMEDIATELY get back to work. I had to call control center, just to let them know that I arrived JUST NOW and needed to use the restroom, and will be a few minutes late, which they will let the operator do. And they had cameras on the bus, so they know I was not bullshitting them. Since I left NJT, they split that run into half 89 and half 84, if I remember, but operators still try to get to where they need to go on time, which is hard to do with the mass of people that the bus encounters. This will help with that issue if the 181 is back. Just because HBLR is here, it does not mean a lot of people take it to Hoboken. There have been times that I took HBLR to HOB and there would be more people on the 89 than on HBLR.

[FlashThunder]

- 126 to continue to run on articulated buses on the rush hour times as well as maybe on the 128 during the peak hours.

 

do we have enough artics for rush hours? but I strongly agree 126,128 need them

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

I meant the 181. 188 never went to Hoboken. And let's nip this in the bud. NJT would love to go to NYC and beyond, but I do not see it happening. There is too many legalities with the city and the state that I do not see it coming to fruition anytime soon. Yes, LGA needs a subway service from PABT or from Grand Central, but that might take a while to come into play. I think a bus service from Kennedy or LaGuardia to Newark might work but I don't see it happening.

 

Hoboken has tons of workers that live in the Union City/West New York/North Bergen area. This would help with the 89 as well as the 22 with overcrowding, as both those buses can be crowded at times with also the people that is coming off the PATH trains getting back to their homes on Washington Street. Now, what I recommend is every hour during rush time, lets have some service from 6 to 9 to Hoboken and 3 to 8. This will help with OVERCROWDING once again, as well as help the 89 as from 10am to 7pm, the 89 can be SLAMMED with people getting to and from Hoboken. This helps the 89 with getting back on time, as well as help the operator have a chance for a break. I say this SINCE I used to do run 13 on the 89, and you need to MOVE or you will be late ALL THE TIME. When I did it, I was always late due to Bergenline traffic and Washington traffic. So late that when I got to Hoboken or Nunguessers, my 15 minute break was GONE and I had to IMMEDIATELY get back to work. I had to call control center, just to let them know that I arrived JUST NOW and needed to use the restroom, and will be a few minutes late, which they will let the operator do. And they had cameras on the bus, so they know I was not bullshitting them. Since I left NJT, they split that run into half 89 and half 84, if I remember, but operators still try to get to where they need to go on time, which is hard to do with the mass of people that the bus encounters. This will help with that issue if the 181 is back. Just because HBLR is here, it does not mean a lot of people take it to Hoboken. There have been times that I took HBLR to HOB and there would be more people on the 89 than on HBLR.

Here is a better idea add more 89s & 22s instead of hiding behind a redundant line like 181. As long as HBLR exists 181 will never return to hoboken and anyone from firt lee or north of HBLR will just use 156 to HBLR or ect. If those buses need help they need more service or LTD stop variants.

[SirJokaPlaya]

Here is a better idea add more 89s & 22s instead of hiding behind a redundant line like 181. As long as HBLR exists 181 will never return to hoboken and anyone from firt lee or north of HBLR will just use 156 to HBLR or ect. If those buses need help they need more service or LTD stop variants.

 

 

Um, if you add 181 to Hoboken, it will NOT be redundant as more people will come on those buses and help the 22 and 89 with overcrowding. That is the main reason to add the 181 to the lineup. Either that or have selective trips to hoboken.

[qjtransitmaster]

Um, if you add 181 to Hoboken, it will NOT be redundant as more people will come on those buses and help the 22 and 89 with overcrowding. That is the main reason to add the 181 to the lineup. Either that or have selective trips to hoboken.

 

again just ADD more 89s and 22s problem solved. You seem to be ignoring its physical routing nothing on 181 is unique only to 181. It is a GWB version of 156 and nothing more. 156 has superior head ways you are just beating a dead horse if 89 needs help let it run more frequently than hourly and half hourly. 181 is a band-aid on the open wounds that are 89 & 22 just stop running away from the real problem and tackle the problem directly which is 89 and 22 not having enough service add to those buses problem solved. Or add artics to them lines. If a ltd can do bergenline so be it. 181 is too infrequent to help any route period. Redundant means duplicate service. Edited November 27, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

I honestly think the 181 would do better going to Hoboken. It gives people there another option when the 126 is packed tight so bad that its SRO. And it gives some relief to the already crushloaded 22 and 89. I guess it could also help people who work in Uptown Manhattan get to work faster instead of making them take the PATH,126 or ferry>Subway.

 

This is a new garage for Central Jersey that could work well.

(Most of the routes in this garage are split, and the other half are routes I proposed.)

Gateway Garage

 

Routes: 68,131,133,135,138,139 (split- Howell), 48,116(split- Ironbound), ,815,817,818(split- Academy) 60, 118, 800, 812, 823, 844, 847(split- Veolia),852

Buses: NABI 416 Transit, MCI D4000, MCI D4500, MCI D4000CT, MCI D4500CT

Edited November 27, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[qjtransitmaster]

I honestly think the 181 would do better going to Hoboken. It gives people there another option when the 126 is packed tight so bad that its SRO. And it gives some relief to the already crushloaded 22 and 89. I guess it could also help people who work in Uptown Manhattan get to work faster instead of making them take the PATH,126 or ferry>Subway.

 

This is a new garage for Central Jersey that could work well.

(Most of the routes in this garage are split, and the other half are routes I proposed.)

Gateway Garage

 

Routes: 68,131,133,135,138,139 (split- Howell), 48,116(split- Ironbound), ,815,817,818(split- Academy) 60, 118, 800, 812, 823, 844, 847(split- Veolia),852

Buses: NABI 416 Transit, MCI D4000, MCI D4500, MCI D4000CT, MCI D4500CT

 

Reply to bold you can't be serious right. How the hell is 181 going to be FASTER than to PATH? when is express in manhattan? and 181 is local in NJ. How is an hourly bus going to help 2 buses that run every 30 to 15 mins? Look at 181's frequency. Ohh and the ferry to port imperial or lincoln harbor has a combo pass for port imperial you can get HBLR from those ferries to hoboken from upper manhattan quicker.

 

Also 158 or 126 to HBLR then hoboken fast and quick from and no matter how you slice it the alternatives are faster no matter what. 158 to fort lee for any GWB line or 156 can be done or even 188 all are more frequent lets not beat the dead horse that is 181.

Edited November 27, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

Reply to bold you can't be serious right. How the hell is 181 going to be FASTER than to PATH? when is express in manhattan? and 181 is local in NJ. How is an hourly bus going to help 2 buses that run every 30 to 15 mins? Look at 181's frequency.

 

It's going to be faster because one doesn't have to wait for the when they get to NYC. The 181's frequency can be solved by splitting the route with Fairview.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

It's going to be faster because one doesn't have to wait for the when they get to NYC. The 181's frequency can be solved by splitting the route with Fairview.

 

Wrong its still slower than the & & NJT 158 & 188 from HBLR no matter what is done they are too many alternatives that are faster than 181 188 to hblr as one the 181 is DEAD. The hours 181 run are times when the is at it's HIGHEST FREQUENCY so sorry but fail DEAD means dead without 181 frequency of 22,89,156 combined is like a nyc city bus stupidly frequent while 181 is irrelevant no matter how you look at it. Its frequency will not take riders away from alternatives. Edited November 27, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

Wrong its still slower than the & & NJT 158 & 188 from HBLR no matter what is done they are too many alternatives that are faster than 181 188 to hblr as one the 181 is DEAD. The hours 181 run are times when the is at it's HIGHEST FREQUENCY so sorry but fail DEAD means dead without 181 frequency of 22,89,156 combined is like a nyc city bus stupidly frequent while 181 is irrelevant no matter how you look at it. Its frequency will not take riders away from alternatives.

 

You're pretty much saying transfers take less time out of people's commute. Which is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm sorry I'm being so blunt with you right now, but I have to say this. You claim to tell me that I know nothing about transit, yet you're the one telling SirJokaPlaya, a former NJT bus driver who knows the Jersey City area/bus routes like the back of his hand, that the 181 won't work going to Hoboken because people would rather get packed like sardines aboard an 89 bus to Bergenline Avenue and wait a long time for the 181.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[qjtransitmaster]

You're pretty much saying transfers take less time out of people's commute. Which is by far the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm sorry I'm being so blunt with you right now, but I have to say this. You claim to tell me that I know nothing about transit, yet you're the one telling SirJokaPlaya, a former NJT bus driver who knows the Jersey City area/bus routes like the back of his hand, that the 181 won't work going to Hoboken because people would rather get packed like sardines aboard an 89 bus to Bergenline Avenue and wait a long time for the 181.

 

Nope I am saying the options are so fast that the time between transfers doesn't add enough time to make the trip slower than 181. Bergenline ave traffic is like manhattan HELL. HBLR skips that allowing you to reach either 158 OR the ferry to manhattan for super express. OR 156 OR 159 to GWB for any GWB bus to upper manhattan. either option is just as good. To be honest the best way is HBLR to PATH for no bus will be faster than these trains or as frequent. Tell me 89 and 22 do not have artics just add artics and 181 will not be needed as both groups will fit on without severe overcrowding. Artics should be added to those routes if crowding is so severe. 181 is just a 156 to GWB instead of PABT. It's hours don't help if your gonna be rush hour only then 89 and 22 should be every 15 to 12 mins at rush hr. OR 22/89 LTD on palisade ave and bergenline ave if overcrowding is still an issue. Again ADD more 22 &89 trips.

 

Improved 188 and extension to bergenline HBLR will make it easy to reach GWB from hoboken. And on bergenline ave use 156 or 159 to plaza If your north of HBLR and not near it.

 

Waiting for 181 is not worth it and there are already too many other buses there which makes it worse no way will it beat the train ever.

Edited November 28, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[SirJokaPlaya]

You can't put a articulated on the 22 as Academy Hoboken does not have it and it travels on tight streets that can BARELY fit a 40', let alone a deadheading 45' bus. Forget an artic. No way. And, you may call it a dead horse, but I worked on the 89, the 126, the 181, and used the 22. A dead horse can be brought back to LIFE with options to make it more presentable for passengers to use instead of waiting for a bus that is crowded for NYC or a bus that might be crowded already with NYC passengers going back to Hoboken while others are trying to take a bus to the train station instead of walking nearly 2 miles. I know what I am talking about, I have experience, and I know the people there. I don't talk about this out of my butt. Been there, done that. I value opinions from everyone but give me some credit as I worked those lines and know what might work. And, as I said, during the rush hour, so you mean to tell me that a rush hour service that can help Hoboken and Bergenline wont help? Yes, Washington and Bergenline sucks at the rush, but not everyone take the light rail. Let's remember something else. The light rail costs MORE to take than the bus in Hudson County. It's not like riverline or newark subway where it's a one zone bus ride. You need a two zone bus pass or more to ride. I'm not berating the HBLR as it is NJT's and I used it, and it's a nice ride and quicker than the bus at times, but why should it be the ONLY option? Why is a train the ONLY option? Wasn't Sandy a good enough reason why that other OPTIONS should be available in times of crisis?

[qjtransitmaster]

You can't put a articulated on the 22 as Academy Hoboken does not have it and it travels on tight streets that can BARELY fit a 40', let alone a deadheading 45' bus. Forget an artic. No way. And, you may call it a dead horse, but I worked on the 89, the 126, the 181, and used the 22. A dead horse can be brought back to LIFE with options to make it more presentable for passengers to use instead of waiting for a bus that is crowded for NYC or a bus that might be crowded already with NYC passengers going back to Hoboken while others are trying to take a bus to the train station instead of walking nearly 2 miles. I know what I am talking about, I have experience, and I know the people there. I don't talk about this out of my butt. Been there, done that. I value opinions from everyone but give me some credit as I worked those lines and know what might work. And, as I said, during the rush hour, so you mean to tell me that a rush hour service that can help Hoboken and Bergenline wont help? Yes, Washington and Bergenline sucks at the rush, but not everyone take the light rail. Let's remember something else. The light rail costs MORE to take than the bus in Hudson County. It's not like riverline or newark subway where it's a one zone bus ride. You need a two zone bus pass or more to ride. I'm not berating the HBLR as it is NJT's and I used it, and it's a nice ride and quicker than the bus at times, but why should it be the ONLY option? Why is a train the ONLY option? Wasn't Sandy a good enough reason why that other OPTIONS should be available in times of crisis?

 

In times of crisis shuttle bus can run as an extra option. And train as it's the fastest and most practical option for such a commute why would anyone choose the slower option if getting there at a certain time is VERY important? If it's an option then maximize that options potential to it's maximum ridership and then other options can be discussed that is my structure and style but this logic can be overruled when structure of routes favors otherwise like in the case of 770 & 712 and in Newark where a cluster of ppl coming from different areas converge at one point to another point. But this isn't the case in Hudson I would agree about 181 if 3 to 4 different options weren't available. Again if crowding is a problem on some lines and artics are not feasible then increase service on those lines to deal with overcrowding and reduce wait times. Plus your zone argument is invalid as 22 and 89 are both 2 zone routes so people making those trips to GWB or based on red those who would use 181 will have to get bus pass with 2 or more zones which works on HBLR. Eliminating this line's relevance. I understand your argument but I can also come up with a counter-argument as well. Add more to those lines that need it. There are 3 different buses you can use from HBLR or even coming off 89/22. At rush an additional option also exists. You have experience not knocking you but the resources are better used to boost service on lines that need it.

 

BUT some lines can be revived if modified in structure like 819 if it went to the college and raritan center it's ridership would increase overnight.

[checkmatechamp13]

Just throwing it out there, but isn't a side advantage of the #181 ending at Union City the fact that it gets caught in less traffic? I think you'd be better off adding more service to the #22 & #89 if crowding is an issue, and then if anybody needs to reach the #181 from Hoboken, they can just take the #22 or #89 (or HBLR) and allow extra time for the connection, instead of delaying the #181 for the people further down the line.

[DaTransitMan4608]

In times of crisis shuttle bus can run as an extra option. And train as it's the fastest and most practical option for such a commute why would anyone choose the slower option if getting there at a certain time is VERY important? If it's an option then maximize that options potential to it's maximum ridership and then other options can be discussed that is my structure and style but this logic can be overruled when structure of routes favors otherwise like in the case of 770 & 712 and in Newark where a cluster of ppl coming from different areas converge at one point to another point. But this isn't the case in Hudson I would agree about 181 if 3 to 4 different options weren't available. Again if crowding is a problem on some lines and artics are not feasible then increase service on those lines to deal with overcrowding and reduce wait times. Plus your zone argument is invalid as 22 and 89 are both 2 zone routes so people making those trips to GWB or based on red those who would use 181 will have to get bus pass with 2 or more zones which works on HBLR. Eliminating this line's relevance. I understand your argument but I can also come up with a counter-argument as well. Add more to those lines that need it. There are 3 different buses you can use from HBLR or even coming off 89/22. At rush an additional option also exists. You have experience not knocking you but the resources are better used to boost service on lines that need it.

 

BUT some lines can be revived if modified in structure like 819 if it went to the college and raritan center it's ridership would increase overnight.

 

As far as I can remember, NJT has never used shuttle buses for rail emergencies before Sandy. Whenever the NEC goes down because of a power outage/signal problem/trespasser fatality, those passengers are always on their own. NJT pretty much says that Private Ops are cross-honoring tickets. What the hell does that do for the people who live in towns that have no NY-bound bus service? Some people have no time or don't watch the news in the morning, therefore they have no idea about the disruption and head to the train station thinking the trains are running. When they get to the train station only to find out that service is suspended, what are they gonna do? Drive out of their town to take the nearest NY-bound bus? You don't know NJ. You think you do but you don't. Some towns like Princeton or Edison have no NY bound buses and they aren't the only ones, while some towns get lucky and have Academy, DeCamp, Coach USA, or Lakeland who are there for them when the rails go out. You need to stop thinking that routes that run from the same town that's served by a train but not by bus are gonna fail because of the train.If that were the case Suburban wouldn't stop in downtown New Brunswick, DeCamp and Lakeland would go out of business, and Academy wouldn't serve Asbury Park Transportation Center anymore. Keep in mind some people use the bus because it costs less and makes little or no other stops before going to NYC so you can cut that "the train is faster than the bus" crap. You only say that because you think every train line runs an express every hour like the NEC or M&E. That doesn't count for other lines like the M&B or NJCL which barely run express trains at all. Plus when the train gets delayed/suspended, there are no shuttle buses.

 

Also you can't say that SirJokaPlaya's argument is "invalid" because he worked for NJT and knows about zones.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Transitkid4608