NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[qjtransitmaster]

As far as I can remember, NJT has never used shuttle buses for rail emergencies before Sandy. Whenever the NEC goes down because of a power outage/signal problem/trespasser fatality, those passengers are always on their own. NJT pretty much says that Private Ops are cross-honoring tickets. What the hell does that do for the people who live in towns that have no NY-bound bus service? Some people have no time or don't watch the news in the morning, therefore they have no idea about the disruption and head to the train station thinking the trains are running. When they get to the train station only to find out that service is suspended, what are they gonna do? Drive out of their town to take the nearest NY-bound bus? You don't know NJ. You think you do but you don't. Some towns like Princeton or Edison have no NY bound buses and they aren't the only ones, while some towns get lucky and have Academy, DeCamp, Coach USA, or Lakeland who are there for them when the rails go out. You need to stop thinking that routes that run from the same town that's served by a train but not by bus are gonna fail because of the train.If that were the case Suburban wouldn't stop in downtown New Brunswick, DeCamp and Lakeland would go out of business, and Academy wouldn't serve Asbury Park Transportation Center anymore. Keep in mind some people use the bus because it costs less and makes little or no other stops before going to NYC so you can cut that "the train is faster than the bus" crap. You only say that because you think every train line runs an express every hour like the NEC or M&E. That doesn't count for other lines like the M&B or NJCL which barely run express trains at all. Plus when the train gets delayed/suspended, there are no shuttle buses.

 

Also you can't say that SirJokaPlaya's argument is "invalid" because he worked for NJT and knows about zones.

 

Change the policy to create rail emergency busing now your argument got NUKED. Do not underestimate my knowledge I traveled through ALL parts of NJ so I do know alot about the state and based on your comments so far I would go as far to say I know more than you but not one like sirjokaplaya who was an NJT op however I used those modes enough to be able to come up with a valid counter argument. His argument was valid I was just simply able to counter it with an equally valid one. you can't just run a NY bound bus that saves ZERO time over the rail everyday cause of fear that the train will breakdown once in a blue moon. Cause when the train runs the bus runs with few people. So establishment of an emergency busing operation destroys your argument completely. As proven when many free buses were unleashed after sandy your case has been OVERRULED!!!!!!!

 

Your ignorance of my stance is obvious but those examples you pointed out ARE EXCEPTIONS!!!!!!! They are faster to NYC!! NOT newark!!! Those buses run due to lack of express train service which doesn't hold water in NEC and M&E. Lakeland serves a different market and reaches places outside the train's reach like sussex county and most of rte 46 corridor. Suburban serves rte 27 south of new brunswick and MUST pass through to serve that corridor and acts like a local bus on rte 27 too. Due to distance suburban has a speed advantage allowing it to pass the NEC while in closer towns you actually save less time the less time an express bus saves the less relevant it becomes. But also these buses serve places away from trains. and are near highways. Mercer county south doesn't have fast access to I-95 good luck beating the NEC. HOWEVER not true for new brunswick. Many of your new lines COPY existing private routes that is true evidence that you don't know the transit area there. Suburban goes beyond new brunswick on MOST trips it indirectly reaches places NEC can't access. And doubles as 2 commuter lines those to newark switch to NEC those to NYC stay on the bus. I have used all NY bound buses all have one thing in common they do NOT duplicate the rail for an extended period in time of their routes. Or are faster than the train. In hudson this advantage for the bus does not exist each part of NJ is different something you seem to not get.

Edited November 29, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

Change the policy to create rail emergency busing now your argument got NUKED. Do not underestimate my knowledge I traveled through ALL parts of NJ so I do know alot about the state and based on your comments so far I would go as far to say I know more than you

Okay now you just sound conceited.

 

you can't just run a NY bound bus that saves ZERO time over the rail everyday cause of fear that the train will breakdown once in a blue moon. Cause when the train runs the bus runs with few people. So establishment of an emergency busing operation destroys your argument completely. As proven when many free buses were unleashed after sandy your case has been OVERRULED!!!!!!!

 

Oh forget it. I'm done trying to explain it to you.

[qjtransitmaster]

Okay now you just sound conceited.

 

Oh forget it. I'm done trying to explain it to you.

 

sorry man it was a joke overruled haha. EVERY CASE IS UNIQUE you seem not to understand this. But I have noticed something weak in SJ buses on I-95 I will elaborate once I figure it out.

[mfs NJT459]

sorry man it was a joke overruled haha. EVERY CASE IS UNIQUE you seem not to understand this. But I have noticed something weak in SJ buses on I-95 I will elaborate once I figure it out.

 

I thought we already established on the SJ routes... Edited November 29, 2012 by mfs NJT459

[mfs NJT459]

speaking of Bergenline Ave

 

Travel Alerts Nov 29, 2012 05:27:12 PM

Due to a Winter Festival in No. Bergen, bus nos. 84, 86, 156, 159, & 181 is on a temporary detour from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM. There is no service on Bergenline Ave, between 85th & 76th Sts. Buses are using 85th St, JFK Blvd., 76th St and Bergenline Ave.

Edited November 30, 2012 by mfs NJT459

[qjtransitmaster]

I thought we already established on the SJ routes...

 

not fully have we mastered SJ.

speaking of Bergenline Ave

 

Travel Alerts Nov 29, 2012 05:27:12 PM

Due to a Winter Festival in No. Bergen, bus nos. 84, 86, 156, 159, & 181 is on a temporary detour from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM. There is no service on Bergenline Ave, between 85th & 76th Sts. Buses are using 85th St, JFK Blvd., 76th St and Bergenline Ave.

 

and thus my point is proven!!!!

[Jamaica Express]

I see this has turned into a Bus Service Planning debate, which is great and all but I'm much more of a Rail guy so I'm going to propose some ideas which are a mix or realistic, maybe and "keep dreaming" under the assumption that this topic title meant proposals for the NJT Corporation and not just the Buses.

 

1.) Expanded peak service on the Montclair-Boonton Line west of MSU w/the creation of new direct NYP Dual mode service (ALP45 + 8 ML) via the extension of Midtown Direct trains to Lincoln Park or Dover (depending on load capacity), reinstate skip stop service through Montclair.

2.) Add a 3rd track on the M&E between Millburn and Summit to eliminate the Bottle Neck that currently exists today and to add additional scheduling flexibility (more express trains, uninterrupted local service etc.)

3.) Create a new West Summit station on the Gladstone Branch so 300's/ 6300's series inner zone trains can turn without interfering with the Mainline services

4.) Reinstate Gladstone to Hoboken service on weekends, on the Bi-Hourly Basis

5.) Expand weekend Midtown Direct service to 1/2 hourly with 2 local trains per hour or 1 summit local and 1 dover express per hour

6.) Extend Montclair weekend service to MSU and expand it to hourly service.

7.) Extend the RVL back to Philipsburg

8.)Monmouth Ocean Middlesex county Line via NJCL Matawan Connection

9.)24/7 service on the Northeast Corridor, expanded late night service on weekends on the M&E and NJCL

10.) Expanded evening express service on the Pascack Valley Line

11.)Lackawanna Cut-Off to Mount Pocono

12.)Expand Gladstone Yard to fit 2 more peak Midtown Direct trains (1 tph to/from Gladstone Branch via AM and PM peaks)

13.) Add a 2nd track to the Waterfront Connector and extend RVL service to Hoboken and Peak NEC-Hoboken service (for riders headed to Lower Manhattan and Downtown Jersey City, in hopes it relieve some of the transfer pressure off of PATH)

14.) Extend the HBLR to Secaucus Junction

15.) Add a 3rd track to the NEC between Swift Interlocking and Secaucus Junction

16.) Finally create the Hunter Flyover and add limited dual mode Peak Service on the RVL to NYP

17.) Consolidate the Peak NJCL 4300's shuttle trains from Bay Head that connect with 3200's to electric trains in Long Branch to single Bay Head to NY Dual Mode trips (operating express to/from South Amboy or Matawan) ALP45+9ML

18.) Electrify Port Morris yard

19.) Creation of a new "Philadelphia Division" based out of 30th street serving the commuter market of South Jersey consisting of a Camden-Glassboro Line via an old Conrail ROW, Gloucester County Line, Cape May Line and a Salem Line

20.)ONE DAY successfully build 2 NEW TUBES under the Hudson and a New Terminal SOMEWHERE on the Island of Manhattan

Edited December 1, 2012 by Jamaica Express

[FlashThunder]

14.) Extend the HBLR to Secaucus Junction

 

Northern Branch anyone?

[Jamaica Express]

14.) Extend the HBLR to Secaucus Junction

 

Northern Branch anyone?

 

 

I personally feel the Northern Branch project is severely flawed for a variety of reasons, one main ones is that it will NOT be an extension of the HBLR. Under the last proposals I read, the current plan would essentially be a separate service (using DMU's), with stations heading south from Tenafly located in Englewood, Leonia, Palisades Park, Ridgefield and Fairview before ending in North Bergen, with a station transfer at Tonnelle Avenue required to access the HBLR. IMHO service designed like that isn't going to attract many people, especially if it terminates in North Bergen.

[FlashThunder]

I personally feel the Northern Branch project is severely flawed for a variety of reasons, one main ones is that it will NOT be an extension of the HBLR. Under the last proposals I read, the current plan would essentially be a separate service (using DMU's), with stations heading south from Tenafly located in Englewood, Leonia, Palisades Park, Ridgefield and Fairview before ending in North Bergen, with a station transfer at Tonnelle Avenue required to access the HBLR. IMHO service designed like that isn't going to attract many people, especially if it terminates in North Bergen.

 

 

actually, it is the extension of HBLR. The project is called Northern Branch and the proposal is to build LRT to either Englewood or Tenafly, which would definitely benefit Bergen County

[Jamaica Express]

actually, it is the extension of HBLR. The project is called Northern Branch and the proposal is to build LRT to either Englewood or Tenafly, which would definitely benefit Bergen County

 

 

Well I am well aware, that the HBLR was originally intended to travel into Bergen County, hence the name, Hudson-BERGEN Light Rail and while I agree a direct HBLR extension would be much more beneficial, the last research I did on this Northern Branch project, was describing a service from what I perceived to be separate, with passengers from Bergen County transferring to the HBLR at a new station called North Bergen Junction. These pics are screenshots from a powerpoint showing the last info I got in regards to the Northern Branch project, arguing how NJT made a bad decision in going with DMU's as opposed to an LRT extension, perhaps things have changed since then? The last Light Rail extension I heard of NJT seriously considering was to the Meadowland Xanadu Complex...then again, I only pay attention to serious projects with committed funding in place lol, however here are screenshots of the presentation I got my info from

Edited December 1, 2012 by Jamaica Express

[qjtransitmaster]

Well I am well aware, that the HBLR was originally intended to travel into Bergen County, hence the name, Hudson-BERGEN Light Rail and while I agree a direct HBLR extension would be much more beneficial, the last research I did on this Northern Branch project, was describing a service from what I perceived to be separate, with passengers from Bergen County transferring to the HBLR at a new station called North Bergen Junction. These pics are screenshots from a powerpoint showing the last info I got in regards to the Northern Branch project, arguing how NJT made a bad decision in going with DMU's as opposed to an LRT extension, perhaps things have changed since then? The last Light Rail extension I heard of NJT seriously considering was to the Meadowland Xanadu Complex...then again, I only pay attention to serious projects with committed funding in place lol, however here are screenshots of the presentation I got my info from

 

Why not have the separate northern branch extend to sec jct instead of making HBLR backtrack?

 

I have one extend HBLR over central branch to cranford with a stop at jersey gardens and abandon that BS busway idea they had. Bringing LRT to elizbeth and union county. The HBLR becomes union Hudson light rail

[Jamaica Express]

Why not have the separate northern branch extend to sec jct instead of making HBLR backtrack?

 

I have one extend HBLR over central branch to cranford with a stop at jersey gardens and abandon that BS busway idea they had. Bringing LRT to elizbeth and union county. The HBLR becomes union Hudson light rail

 

 

If it's not a an extension of the HBLR to Tenafly, then their best bet would most likely be to send it to Secaucus Junction.

 

As for the Union County plan, NJ Transit had plans for a Union County Lightrail linking Elizabeth to Newark Airport which was a part of the Newark Elizabeth Rail Link project (which was to be done in 3 segments) the only portion of this project built was the Broad Street Line (which operates between Newark Penn and Newark Broad St stations) the 2nd segment would have linked Newark Penn to Newark Airport and the third segment would have continued from the Airport into Elizabeth. The project was scrapped and has returned in altered forms, such as the BRT project you mentioned.

[SirJokaPlaya]

First off, I appreciate you guys that think my points are valid. As stated, I am a former NJT operator that is trying to get back to NJ and get back doing the job that I loved. The views are based on my opinions. Now, if I'm right or wrong, I'll debate you. But, just don't shoot my idea down like it's the world's worst.

 

Back to my 181 argument, there was a time where the 181 did go to Hoboken because there was no HBLR. During rush hour times, Washington Ave is more congested with people getting to and from NY and Bergenline and an extra service might help. Helps with the HBLR because there are times the LR is full with passengers. Not often, but it can be. What's wrong with a spare choice? I don't hear an argument about having the 128, 165, 166, and 168 on Blvd East because it is very much needed.

 

I have some views about the HBLR extension to Secaucus Jct. How would people feel about paying for a 2 zone ride from Bergenline or Tonnelle Ave? I say that since it's a one zone ride from Union City/Weehawken/North Bergen/West New York to Secaucus. And the HBLR is a 2 zone ride fare. This means some fare enforcements would be in place. But that also means some unfair scenarios for those that travel to and from Secaucus to the cities I just mentioned as it is a one zone ride if they take the 124, 129, or 190. The amount of times I drove the 129 and 129C to NY, my bus was FULL, Standing Room Only. Now, if someone was to take the HBLR from Jersey City/Bayonne to Secaucus, then the fare would be correct since it would be a 2 zone ride. I don't know about this one.

 

HBLR to Tenafly would be great because it would help with the rush hour needs of that bus in the AM for people that travel from Nunguessers to Tenafly, Leonia, and the other aforementioned places. That 166 is stuffed so bad in the AM that at times, other buses that were empty to go back and do a trip on the 128 was asked to do a 166 instead to Leonia or Tenafly. That includes me. I would just also have a stop in Teaneck at Holy Name Hospital, just for people to get to a hospital if needed.

 

I also wished the HBLR had service to Journal Square, since that area always get screwed with people trying to get to somewhere. I mean, I would love to see some type of multi-light rail connector though impossible since you could always get PATH from NWK Penn to Hoboken or NWK Penn to Jo Sq. Otherwise, wow, NJT would be in the business. The one day PATH goes belly up, you know NJT would take it and make a light rail service out of those bad boys.

[FlashThunder]

 

HBLR to Tenafly would be great because it would help with the rush hour needs of that bus in the AM for people that travel from Nunguessers to Tenafly, Leonia, and the other aforementioned places. That 166 is stuffed so bad in the AM that at times, other buses that were empty to go back and do a trip on the 128 was asked to do a 166 instead to Leonia or Tenafly. That includes me. I would just also have a stop in Teaneck at Holy Name Hospital, just for people to get to a hospital if needed.

 

 

 

Taking 166T in the morning to NY is like a lottery. Sometimes you end up in an empty bus, other times, you're stuffed like caged animal. HBLR would be a big help to northern Bergen County

[SirJokaPlaya]

Sadly it will stay that way even if the HBLR gets to Tenafly. Remember that the T or the X really don't carry too many local passengers. 99.9% is for NY. No matter what, the 166 will be either an sardine can or a open field.

[qjtransitmaster]

First off, I appreciate you guys that think my points are valid. As stated, I am a former NJT operator that is trying to get back to NJ and get back doing the job that I loved. The views are based on my opinions. Now, if I'm right or wrong, I'll debate you. But, just don't shoot my idea down like it's the world's worst.

 

Back to my 181 argument, there was a time where the 181 did go to Hoboken because there was no HBLR. During rush hour times, Washington Ave is more congested with people getting to and from NY and Bergenline and an extra service might help. Helps with the HBLR because there are times the LR is full with passengers. Not often, but it can be. What's wrong with a spare choice? I don't hear an argument about having the 128, 165, 166, and 168 on Blvd East because it is very much needed.

 

I have some views about the HBLR extension to Secaucus Jct. How would people feel about paying for a 2 zone ride from Bergenline or Tonnelle Ave? I say that since it's a one zone ride from Union City/Weehawken/North Bergen/West New York to Secaucus. And the HBLR is a 2 zone ride fare. This means some fare enforcements would be in place. But that also means some unfair scenarios for those that travel to and from Secaucus to the cities I just mentioned as it is a one zone ride if they take the 124, 129, or 190. The amount of times I drove the 129 and 129C to NY, my bus was FULL, Standing Room Only. Now, if someone was to take the HBLR from Jersey City/Bayonne to Secaucus, then the fare would be correct since it would be a 2 zone ride. I don't know about this one.

 

HBLR to Tenafly would be great because it would help with the rush hour needs of that bus in the AM for people that travel from Nunguessers to Tenafly, Leonia, and the other aforementioned places. That 166 is stuffed so bad in the AM that at times, other buses that were empty to go back and do a trip on the 128 was asked to do a 166 instead to Leonia or Tenafly. That includes me. I would just also have a stop in Teaneck at Holy Name Hospital, just for people to get to a hospital if needed.

 

I also wished the HBLR had service to Journal Square, since that area always get screwed with people trying to get to somewhere. I mean, I would love to see some type of multi-light rail connector though impossible since you could always get PATH from NWK Penn to Hoboken or NWK Penn to Jo Sq. Otherwise, wow, NJT would be in the business. The one day PATH goes belly up, you know NJT would take it and make a light rail service out of those bad boys.

 

Never said 181 was the worst idea in the world I am sure there are worse. The reason why there is no argument about blvd east is due to EXTREME overcrowding and the fact that 166,165 and 168 all go to different areas with people from blvd E in addition to local and NY origin passengers. 165 and 166 lone have high demand. BUT the 168 is debatable due to infrequency and the service boost to 128 168's presence there is very questionable and seems like a revenue maximization tactic rather than an actual purpose. If money wasn't an issue NJT can easily take 168 off of there and extend select 128s to meet the 168 165 also meets 168's T. 181 is victimized by HBLR keyword NOT OFTEN is HBLR crushed to the point where people will take an 181 instead therefore unlike the blvd E lines that are CRUSHED 181 sadly is an afterthought compared to the lines next to it that have superior service levels and do the same thing as 181 A LA 156 and 159 and just too many alternatives. On blvd E the services actually alternate a bit and only 168 is infrequent. 181 is too infrequent to attract heavy ridership anymore unlike 165/166& 168 it has no large unique segment that it has to itself for a long time.

[DaTransitMan4608]

I also wished the HBLR had service to Journal Square, since that area always get screwed with people trying to get to somewhere. I mean, I would love to see some type of multi-light rail connector though impossible since you could always get PATH from NWK Penn to Hoboken or NWK Penn to Jo Sq. Otherwise, wow, NJT would be in the business. The one day PATH goes belly up, you know NJT would take it and make a light rail service out of those bad boys.

 

I always thought the HBLR would do better if it served JSQ. But the question is, where in JSQ could it go? The upper level is full of buses and the lower level has the PATH. Underground connection maybe?

[qjtransitmaster]

I always thought the HBLR would do better if it served JSQ. But the question is, where in JSQ could it go? The upper level is full of buses and the lower level has the PATH. Underground connection maybe?

 

err with connection to PATH is it needed? via newport mall.

 

 

What kind of other stations would this HBLR variant serve if it's just JSQ then I wouldn't bother.

Edited December 4, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

err with connection to PATH is it needed? via newport mall.

 

 

What kind of other stations would this HBLR variant serve if it's just JSQ then I wouldn't bother.

 

No the PATH can mind its own business.

 

It could basically be another line that goes from Hoboken to Bayonne via Journal Square. For now it can be called the West Side Line

The following stops include:

Hoboken Terminal

Hoboken Ave-Christ Hospital

Summit Ave.

Journal Square

Tonnele Ave.

Lincoln Highway

Communipaw Ave

Hudson Mall

Society Hill

Bayonne Park

[Jamaica Express]

No the PATH can mind its own business.

 

It could basically be another line that goes from Hoboken to Bayonne via Journal Square. For now it can be called the West Side Line

The following stops include:

Hoboken Terminal

Hoboken Ave-Christ Hospital

Summit Ave.

Journal Square

Tonnele Ave.

Lincoln Highway

Communipaw Ave

Hudson Mall

Society Hill

Bayonne Park

 

 

And just exactly what kind of Right-of-Way did you have in mind for this route?

[DaTransitMan4608]

And just exactly what kind of Right-of-Way did you have in mind for this route?

 

This one

https://maps.google....053241,0.111494'

 

NOTE: If some of the lines look as if they run through buildings, please ignore it. I'm currently trying to fix the line so they don't look that way.

 

EDIT: Lines were fixed, some new stops were placed.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Transitkid4608

[SirJokaPlaya]

No the PATH can mind its own business.

 

It could basically be another line that goes from Hoboken to Bayonne via Journal Square. For now it can be called the West Side Line

The following stops include:

Hoboken Terminal

Hoboken Ave-Christ Hospital

Summit Ave.

Journal Square

Tonnele Ave.

Lincoln Highway

Communipaw Ave

Hudson Mall

Society Hill

Bayonne Park

 

 

This might attract people as another option to get to Bayonne if they don't want to wait for the 80, 87, 10, or the 119

[NoHuBus]

Now if only that line were to be in the blue prints and your right it would be good not to wait for the 80 and 87 because they can get full quick and 10 and 119 well long wait to get on a bus in JFK Blvd. For 119 going northbound you need to go north and not get off at JSQ and going back um well to be honest i have no idea what the condition is unless someone explains it to me for starts why 119 needs those conditions it should be as an open option to JSQ for some ppl along JFK blvd if the 10 is behind it. But anyways thats just me. Oh one more thing speaking of fictional lines is it possible to have a west side flyer just like the bayonne flyer? what would be the logisitcs and challenges of it? i always wanted a faster way to get to west side ave

[qjtransitmaster]

really via 440 or near it wow PATH is still part of the transit network so ignoring it is STUPID. Try extending journal sq line over rte 440 as underground or elevated. WELL currently no bus exists on rte 440 lets try one and see how it goes if it gets crushed replace it with PATH extension beyond journal sq then merge fare structures.

Edited December 5, 2012 by qjtransitmaster