qjtransitmaster Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share #576 Posted January 22, 2013 Wait a second.... how do you come to the conclusion of high turnover if you don't even realize which routes they're coming off of.... If I see a crowd of people at a stop, I don't automatically assume high turnover..... I say that to say, I don't think it's is all that high out in Trenton (then again, it's all subjective)..... Anyway, at TTC (trenton transit center) itself, of course there's turnover b/w buses (including involving SEPTA's #127), but quite a bit of people that wait over there for the 600's (NJT) are also coming off SEPTA trains too.... you can't overlook that. I was also thinking the same thing. I did see a bunch of people get off 600s buses and transfer to SEPTA trenton line for either philly or business parks near the SEPTA line. I and a few others used NJT NEC to SEPTA trenton line to torresdale for the 19 bus. Also you are correct about people switching between SEPTA's trentonline and 600s lines which was why 553brighton said without TTC the 600s are nothing. But you are wrong about the SEPTA 127 though it is barely used when I took it from trenton it almost carried air almost nobody used it. It gets more use between levittown and oxford valley mall. Between TTC and levittown its real dead. Not enough peeps here I can discuss SEPTA with here. Cause it can be fixed the routes need to be done over cause those bucks routes are a trainwreck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 23, 2013 Share #577 Posted January 23, 2013 I was also thinking the same thing. I did see a bunch of people get off 600s buses and transfer to SEPTA trenton line for either philly or business parks near the SEPTA line. I and a few others used NJT NEC to SEPTA trenton line to torresdale for the 19 bus. Also you are correct about people switching between SEPTA's trentonline and 600s lines which was why 553brighton said without TTC the 600s are nothing. But you are wrong about the SEPTA 127 though it is barely used when I took it from trenton it almost carried air almost nobody used it. It gets more use between levittown and oxford valley mall. Between TTC and levittown its real dead. Not enough peeps here I can discuss SEPTA with here. Cause it can be fixed the routes need to be done over cause those bucks routes are a trainwreck. Aye, don't know when you took em, but I've seen SEPTA 127's that's left TTC packed on a couple occasions..... The riders that would wait at that shared stop (njt 409/ septa 127) weren't waiting for 409's en masse either, much to my surprise..... I won't comment on 127 usage w/i pennsylvania..... As for the njt 600's, yeah, I get the same vibe that you say 553 stated.... I also get the sense that TTC itself is a major artery for the 600's that serve it (& struggles for ridership otherwise), but I have to fan those routes for myself to see to what extent that assessment holds true.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share #578 Posted January 23, 2013 Aye, don't know when you took em, but I've seen SEPTA 127's that's left TTC packed on a couple occasions..... The riders that would wait at that shared stop (njt 409/ septa 127) weren't waiting for 409's en masse either, much to my surprise..... I won't comment on 127 usage w/i pennsylvania..... As for the njt 600's, yeah, I get the same vibe that you say 553 stated.... I also get the sense that TTC itself is a major artery for the 600's that serve it (& struggles for ridership otherwise), but I have to fan those routes for myself to see to what extent that assessment holds true.... I remember being on a packed 606 before touching trenton 127 probably needs to be streamlined. Cause I don't see people on it as it reaches levittown. When I was going to oxford valley mall waiting at the levittown SEPTA station 127 arrived with very few riders. It was truncated at the oxford valley mall and reduced to every 90 mins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted January 26, 2013 Share #579 Posted January 26, 2013 If it wasnt for TTC NJT Mercer would have went under long ago, i have never seen buses with high ridership outside of TTC. Its the same with the 468, with out the 401, there would be no 468. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share #580 Posted January 28, 2013 If it wasnt for TTC NJT Mercer would have went under long ago, i have never seen buses with high ridership outside of TTC. Its the same with the 468, with out the 401, there would be no 468. Then why didn't NJT combine the 468 with 401 if 401 is the reason 468 exists? It won't add much time to the 401 at all. So why not merge em together. To be honest I was on a CRUSHED 600 at princeton jct heading north to princeton forestal village that northbound 600 I was on was at PM rush and the line for the 600 was very long it was beyond standing room only when it left out of the NEC princeton jct station plus to top it off it only had 5 people when it arrived at the station but it then left loaded. I guess that line feeds off the train. So is this an exception or did I invalidate your TTC claim? also I remember being on a southbound 606 and we were picking up alot of passengers along US 206 en rte to trenton it still had a decent load after we passed trenton towards hamilton marketplace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted January 28, 2013 Share #581 Posted January 28, 2013 A few packed buses still wont change the fact without ttc njt mercer would be down under. There ridership is low for that part of njt. In fact it would add too much time to the already long 401. They want the 401 to quick turn around to get them buses back to woodbury fast. Jake brakes are banned in pennsville and they dont want mcis making noise through there. Basicslly why the 402 is mia outside of rush hr. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 28, 2013 Author Share #582 Posted January 28, 2013 A few packed buses still wont change the fact without ttc njt mercer would be down under. There ridership is low for that part of njt.In fact it would add too much time to the already long 401. They want the 401 to quick turn around to get them buses back to woodbury fast. Jake brakes are banned in pennsville and they dont want mcis making noise through there. Basicslly why the 402 is mia outside of rush hr. why can't njt just not use jakes? and run NABIs on 402 outside rush hr? Those folks why does NJT have to listen to them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJokaPlaya Posted January 29, 2013 Share #583 Posted January 29, 2013 why can't njt just not use jakes? and run NABIs on 402 outside rush hr? Those folks why does NJT have to listen to them? Because NJT took off the toggle switch where the B/O can choose to have the Jake on or off. NJT has to listen to them because it's THEIR city, THEIR rules. They are the ones that tell NJT where they can operate their buses for revenue service &what street corners to stop at for boarding and alighting. This is what so many people fail to realize. NJT would love to go EVERYWHERE but they can't due to restrictions placed from local city government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share #584 Posted January 29, 2013 Because NJT took off the toggle switch where the B/O can choose to have the Jake on or off. NJT has to listen to them because it's THEIR city, THEIR rules. They are the ones that tell NJT where they can operate their buses for revenue service &what street corners to stop at for boarding and alighting. This is what so many people fail to realize. NJT would love to go EVERYWHERE but they can't due to restrictions placed from local city government.buses in SJ really need to have the toggle switch put back or reactivated. Cause that route would be better off merged with 401/402. Interesting why was NJT so dumb to take off those switches. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted January 29, 2013 Share #585 Posted January 29, 2013 buses in SJ really need to have the toggle switch put back or reactivated. Cause that route would be better off merged with 401/402. Interesting why was NJT so dumb to take off those switches. He just told you why....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJokaPlaya Posted January 29, 2013 Share #586 Posted January 29, 2013 buses in SJ really need to have the toggle switch put back or reactivated. Cause that route would be better off merged with 401/402. Interesting why was NJT so dumb to take off those switches. NJT, in my view, didn't want to take chances with people messing with the retarder. Better just leave it alone and leave it at the setting that it is placed on. One less item to mess with when you're driving a couple of tons on wheels on the road. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted January 29, 2013 Share #587 Posted January 29, 2013 Our CLs have the switch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted January 30, 2013 Share #588 Posted January 30, 2013 556: Red Bank-Atlantic City https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d39d8dacfb5ed76ae&msa=0 557: Penns Grove-Atlantic City https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share #589 Posted January 30, 2013 556: Red Bank-Atlantic City https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d39d8dacfb5ed76ae&msa=0557: Penns Grove-Atlantic City https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0 not gonna lie your best one yet. plus one of them was in my original proposal. 557 but it went to wilmington beyond penns grove. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
553 Bridgeton Posted January 31, 2013 Share #590 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Taking it down Weymouth-Malaga Rd is just senseless, never mind the fact there is no demand, let alone those ppl on that quiet little Weymouth-Malaga Rd wouldnt go for that. Penns grove has more philly ridership via 468 to 401 or 402. Edited January 31, 2013 by 553 Bridgeton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJokaPlaya Posted January 31, 2013 Share #591 Posted January 31, 2013 Our CLs have the switch. Meadowlands didn't. Weird. Maybe because North Jersey really don't have those issues like South Jersey do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share #592 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Taking it down Weymouth-Malaga Rd is just senseless, never mind the fact there is no demand, let alone those ppl on that quiet little Weymouth-Malaga Rd wouldnt go for that.Penns grove has more philly ridership via 468 to 401 or 402. You have a point there personally I wouldn't route it like that. My version of the 557 which I called 556 would have gone to rte 54 before heading down rte 40 plus unlike his route it would have went to wilmington DE. Edited January 31, 2013 by qjtransitmaster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted January 31, 2013 Share #593 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) Taking it down Weymouth-Malaga Rd is just senseless, never mind the fact there is no demand, let alone those ppl on that quiet little Weymouth-Malaga Rd wouldnt go for that. Penns grove has more philly ridership via 468 to 401 or 402. I put it there because I didn't want it using US-40 all the way to Penns Grove, but if it won't get ridership from Weymouth-Malaga, then I'm not gonna have it use that road. Matter of fact, I just took it off that road. See I originally wanted it to go to Wilmington, like QJT's. But I didn't think it was gonna get good ridership if it did. So instead of Wilmington, I decided to end it in Penns Grove. The West endpoint is now once again Wilmington. The way I see it, it could work if people coming off of Amtrak from Points South and/or local Wilmington residents use it to get to Atlantic City for Weekend trips. EDIT: The 557 no longer uses US40. It now ends in Wilmington and uses the "Express" route if you will. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0&ll=39.68394,-74.903412&spn=0.864505,1.783905 Edited January 31, 2013 by Transitkid4608 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share #594 Posted January 31, 2013 I put it there because I didn't want it using US-40 all the way to Penns Grove, but if it won't get ridership from Weymouth-Malaga, then I'm not gonna have it use that road. Matter of fact, I just took it off that road. See I originally wanted it to go to Wilmington, like QJT's. But I didn't think it was gonna get good ridership if it did. So instead of Wilmington, I decided to end it in Penns Grove. The West endpoint is now once again Wilmington. The way I see it, it could work if people coming off of Amtrak from Points South and/or local Wilmington residents use it to get to Atlantic City for Weekend trips. EDIT: The 557 no longer uses US40. It now ends in Wilmington and uses the "Express" route if you will. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0&ll=39.68394,-74.903412&spn=0.864505,1.783905 The local route was better cause it serves more people and acts like a crosstown for salem and the SJ region and in addition greyhound already runs non-stop service between wilmington and AC. So this service duplicates. Don't go saying 551 duplicates cause it has stops greyhound doesn't serve camden and avandale P&R both high ridership stops for 551. This express would be better if it had some intermediate stops like deptford mall and avandale P&R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted January 31, 2013 Share #595 Posted January 31, 2013 The local route was better cause it serves more people and acts like a crosstown for salem and the SJ region and in addition greyhound already runs non-stop service between wilmington and AC. So this service duplicates. Don't go saying 551 duplicates cause it has stops greyhound doesn't serve camden and avandale P&R both high ridership stops for 551. This express would be better if it had some intermediate stops like deptford mall and avandale P&R Yeah but the question is where can it make an intermediate stop? Avandale is outta the question since the 551 already serves it. Maybe Vineland and Deptford Mall since they're both I wasn't even gonna say the 551 duplicated it. Where did that come from? Well if intermediate service is what it needs, then it should work now that I made a few changes. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0&ll=39.712469,-74.97963&spn=0.432075,0.891953 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share #596 Posted January 31, 2013 Yeah but the question is where can it make an intermediate stop? Avandale is outta the question since the 551 already serves it. Maybe Vineland and Deptford Mall since they're both I wasn't even gonna say the 551 duplicated it. Where did that come from? Well if intermediate service is what it needs, then it should work now that I made a few changes. https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0&ll=39.712469,-74.97963&spn=0.432075,0.891953 well it should go directly to exit 5 from avandale and unlike 551 if it serves pleasantville it would increase connectivity and ridership somewhat. From exit 5 on AC it can go via that routing then to wilmington via pureland industrial pureland will be the last NJ stop untill wilmington. Then it would be perfect. Some trips can skip though. But if my 558 322 crosstown is made then people connecting at pureland can go to chester. But I like the routing but the black horse routing is not needed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share #597 Posted January 31, 2013 Taking it down Weymouth-Malaga Rd is just senseless, never mind the fact there is no demand, let alone those ppl on that quiet little Weymouth-Malaga Rd wouldnt go for that. Penns grove has more philly ridership via 468 to 401 or 402. Do you know about Burlink B1 ridership habits? do most of them transfer from 409s or Riverline at beverly? Or do you know nothing about the B1? I was on B1 but I never used it to the riverline so I wasn't able to even be sure? 556: Red Bank-Atlantic City https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d39d8dacfb5ed76ae&msa=0557: Penns Grove-Atlantic City https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d4870cb0f5ebf7020&msa=0 What I like about your 556 is it cam merge several lines and unlike those it can gain ridership between it's intermittent points. For example if implemented it can replace OC10 completely and southern portion of 830 northern absorbed by my streamlined 317 also it can extend to the atlantic highlands and replace 834. So it replaces weaker lines but uses their trip generators combined to create a stronger route I can see it being successful. If only NJT would be smart enough to stop with this shuttle crap and reshape their routes to facilitate the demand they can make bus routes that are useful and help more people than their weak ass shuttles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted January 31, 2013 Share #598 Posted January 31, 2013 Do you know about Burlink B1 ridership habits? do most of them transfer from 409s or Riverline at beverly? Or do you know nothing about the B1? I was on B1 but I never used it to the riverline so I wasn't able to even be sure? What I like about your 556 is it cam merge several lines and unlike those it can gain ridership between it's intermittent points. For example if implemented it can replace OC10 completely and southern portion of 830 northern absorbed by my streamlined 317 also it can extend to the atlantic highlands and replace 834. So it replaces weaker lines but uses their trip generators combined to create a stronger route I can see it being successful. If only NJT would be smart enough to stop with this shuttle crap and reshape their routes to facilitate the demand they can make bus routes that are useful and help more people than their weak ass shuttles. NJT should just take over those shuttles and run them with their own buses. 131 Changes/Additions: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d349a98a15c80d407&msa=0 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share #599 Posted January 31, 2013 NJT should just take over those shuttles and run them with their own buses. 131 Changes/Additions: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004d349a98a15c80d407&msa=0 sayreville is run by academy nogo. However you can kill m7 with bordentown service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTransitMan4608 Posted February 1, 2013 Share #600 Posted February 1, 2013 sayreville is run by academy nogo. However you can kill m7 with bordentown service. The 131 already has trips that terminate in Sayreville, so Academy isn't the only bus to run there. Besides, don't you want people to take something else besides Academy? More and more people are starting to use the bus over the train so those Academy buses may start becoming crowded. That's where the 131 comes in. MCAT is killing itself lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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