NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[B35 via Church]

IKEA runs its own PABT shuttle buses. And they're free. So what is the ridership base for weekend 111 service?

A statement as such, suggests that those shuttle buses are more utilized than the 111.... Fact of the matter is that they're not.....

 

The question that should be asked is, why aren't there more people utilizing those shuttle buses....

[DaTransitMan4608]

Plus I had to drop my 320 plan earlier due to the fact that NJT is restricted from running NY bound buses in morris as I was told by NJT staff and academy. The contracts are neogotiated by. The state determines terms of contracts and if some are split.

Morris County isn't really much of a contract op turf anymore. NJT does all the lines in that county now. Community Coach just does the 77. I don't think they'd have a cow over an NJT line to NYC from there as long as it doesn't go anywhere near the current contract ops.

 

As for your last statement on split contracts, that was the plan for some of my routes that came in contact with privately operated lines. They'd split the contract terms for the route kinda like how the 139 does.

[qjtransitmaster]

Morris County isn't really much of a contract op turf anymore. NJT does all the lines in that county now. Community Coach just does the 77. I don't think they'd have a cow over an NJT line to NYC from there as long as it doesn't go anywhere near the current contract ops.

 

As for your last statement on split contracts, that was the plan for some of my routes that came in contact with privately operated lines. They'd split the contract terms for the route kinda like how the 139 does

I was not talking about local routes!!!! But NY bound ones with lakeland haveing both midtown and wall street service NJT is not permitted to run NY bound bus service but local buses have no restrictions. The NY bound service is contracted and based on bidding. Morris IS CONTRACT TURF FOR NY bound not local services. NJ bus services are divided into interstate and intrastate. NJT can do as they please with intrastate unless the towns say otherwise. But if private OP like CUSA rockland coaches wins Northern bergen territory NJT isn't supposed to be there unless intrastate. Have you noticed WHY no NJT NY bound buses are available north of a certain point in bergen county? Same for morris and even northwestern essex simple those areas are decamp and CUSA and LL areas and the areas not served by LL and CUSA have NJT rail. Which is why some of your lines won't even work let alone be allowed without the carriers tryna sue NJT for anti competitive practices. 

 

However you do raise a point about not being near contract lines.

Edited April 28, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[checkmatechamp13]

I see some gaps in the western part of Jersey City that could be filled by a route. It would start by Danforth Avenue on the HBLR, go across Danforth, loop in and out of the Stadium Plaza Shopping Center, then go up 440, loop in and out of the Hudson Mall, then go up Route 1, across Broadway, down Tonnelle, across JFK, and terminate at JSQ. 

 

My main concerns are the gaps at the northern end (NW of Sip & West Side, as well as those apartment buildings at the end up Duncan). I was originally thinking to have one of the JSQ routes terminate at the Hudson Mall, but I figure this might fill in a few more gaps. (It would run on coverage headways of course)

 

Are those loops that the #6 makes in the Comminipaw area part-time or what? (Are they part-time runs that end at LSP?) Maybe the #81 can take Communipaw-Pacific to cover that area full-time.

[B35 via Church]

I see some gaps in the western part of Jersey City that could be filled by a route. It would start by Danforth Avenue on the HBLR, go across Danforth, loop in and out of the Stadium Plaza Shopping Center, then go up 440, loop in and out of the Hudson Mall, then go up Route 1, across Broadway, down Tonnelle, across JFK, and terminate at JSQ. 

 

My main concerns are the gaps at the northern end (NW of Sip & West Side, as well as those apartment buildings at the end up Duncan). I was originally thinking to have one of the JSQ routes terminate at the Hudson Mall, but I figure this might fill in a few more gaps. (It would run on coverage headways of course)

 

Are those loops that the #6 makes in the Comminipaw area part-time or what? (Are they part-time runs that end at LSP?)

Maybe the #81 can take Communipaw-Pacific to cover that area full-time.

I dunno man..... I think you're talking about the buses that start at HBLR Garfield & serve HBLR LSP (liberty state park) before running up to JSQ.... If that's what you're referring to, then those aren't part-time buses.... Those are alternate #6 trips - of which don't emanate from down there by the greenville garage, etc....

[BreeddekalbL]

NJT 110:

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=208174968748802406451.0004dafbf3865102df631&msa=0&ll=40.659806,-74.304657&spn=0.42556,0.891953  Hopefully this will be good cause to get rid of the 114 serving Hillside the way it does.

 

 

i like your 110 proposal  do you know when they did that stupid proposal for the 114? i remember it taking a straight shot down 22

[qjtransitmaster]

I see some gaps in the western part of Jersey City that could be filled by a route. It would start by Danforth Avenue on the HBLR, go across Danforth, loop in and out of the Stadium Plaza Shopping Center, then go up 440, loop in and out of the Hudson Mall, then go up Route 1, across Broadway, down Tonnelle, across JFK, and terminate at JSQ. 

 

My main concerns are the gaps at the northern end (NW of Sip & West Side, as well as those apartment buildings at the end up Duncan). I was originally thinking to have one of the JSQ routes terminate at the Hudson Mall, but I figure this might fill in a few more gaps. (It would run on coverage headways of course)

 

Are those loops that the #6 makes in the Comminipaw area part-time or what? (Are they part-time runs that end at LSP?) Maybe the #81 can take Communipaw-Pacific to cover that area full-time.

 err nope 81 is to unreliable. It will get worse that way. 

i like your 110 proposal  do you know when they did that stupid proposal for the 114? i remember it taking a straight shot down 22

those folks would be better off using 99 to 107 rather than drag down 114.

[DaTransitMan4608]

I was not talking about local routes!!!! But NY bound ones with lakeland haveing both midtown and wall street service NJT is not permitted to run NY bound bus service but local buses have no restrictions. The NY bound service is contracted and based on bidding. Morris IS CONTRACT TURF FOR NY bound not local services. NJ bus services are divided into interstate and intrastate. NJT can do as they please with intrastate unless the towns say otherwise. But if private OP like CUSA rockland coaches wins Northern bergen territory NJT isn't supposed to be there unless intrastate. Have you noticed WHY no NJT NY bound buses are available north of a certain point in bergen county? Same for morris and even northwestern essex simple those areas are decamp and CUSA and LL areas and the areas not served by LL and CUSA have NJT rail. Which is why some of your lines won't even work let alone be allowed without the carriers tryna sue NJT for anti competitive practices. 

 

However you do raise a point about not being near contract lines.

First off, chill. Second I don't see Academy suing NJT because of the 139, so you can't really say that the P/Os are gonna sue NJT for running an interstate line near theirs. Were that the case, the 125 would've been gone when the 10/99S were still around in Jersey City. You're basically saying that a contract op would sue NJT because they have an interstate line running nearby, and NJT's just happens to cross paths with it. Let's take my modified 131 for example, Academy has no right to complain about it copying their Sayreville line when it just passes Sayreville on it's way to Union Beach. That statement of yours saying that NJT is gonna get sued for running a line near a P/O isn't very true because if it was, the 125, half the 130s, and the 319 would've been kicked a while ago. 

[qjtransitmaster]

First off, chill. Second I don't see Academy suing NJT because of the 139, so you can't really say that the P/Os are gonna sue NJT for running an interstate line near theirs. Were that the case, the 125 would've been gone when the 10/99S were still around in Jersey City. You're basically saying that a contract op would sue NJT because they have an interstate line running nearby, and NJT's just happens to cross paths with it. Let's take my modified 131 for example, Academy has no right to complain about it copying their Sayreville line when it just passes Sayreville on it's way to Union Beach. That statement of yours saying that NJT is gonna get sued for running a line near a P/O isn't very true because if it was, the 125, half the 130s, and the 319 would've been kicked a while ago. 

Sorry kid it's my style I will calm down a bit and post plans. 125 had a different pattern 10 was local and 99S was NY bound closed door with 125 open door. NJT doesn't directly duplicate ANY private route 100% something you can't simply understand. 131 modified is nothing more than academy's sayreville service to port authority. If it was say an off-peak variant of academy it would work. 131 rush gets no change but midday service added via sayreville academy's route at rush academy at offpeak NJT like a joint line. 130s are JOINT RUN!!!!!!!!!! NJT 319 stops at toms river greyhound and academy DO NOT. Like how 137 549 port authority is NJT while wall street is academy they DO NOT compete directly.

 

139 series wall street = academy

port authority 139 = NJT get it?

Some times not enough buses are there and on occasion at rush you can get an academy port authority.

Edited April 28, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

Sorry kid it's my style I will calm down a bit and post plans. 125 had a different pattern 10 was local and 99S was NY bound closed door with 125 open door. NJT doesn't directly duplicate ANY private route 100% something you can't simply understand. 131 modified is nothing more than academy's sayreville service to port authority. If it was say an off-peak variant of academy it would work. 131 rush gets no change but midday service added via sayreville academy's route at rush academy at offpeak NJT like a joint line. 130s are JOINT RUN!!!!!!!!!! NJT 319 stops at toms river greyhound and academy DO NOT. Like how 137 549 port authority is NJT while wall street is academy they DO NOT compete directly.

 

139 series wall street = academy

port authority 139 = NJT get it?

Some times not enough buses are there and on occasion at rush you can get an academy port authority.

You're like the Bill O'Reilly of transit or something. That bold part is one of the main reasons you get treated the way you do around here. You gotta stop it with this disrespectful attitude of yours. I'm 16 you're like in your 20s and you're screaming at me while I'm keeping my cool here (for the most part because I'll admit I've snapped the chain a couple times). It's like Harry told you in that SEPTA bridge thread:

 

You act like you have 40 years of transportation management experience.  Chill the hell out already.

 

Talkin' bout I don't understand transit...give me a break , the real question here is if I didn't know what I was talking about, would I be posting here at all?

 

I don't who's filling your head with this "the P/O's can make NJT their b***h when it comes to routes"  BS, but I'm not buying it one bit. If the contractors told NJT what to do, NJT wouldn't be leasing their buses out to em anymore. If I were NJT, and that happened, I would be like "Be glad I at least gave you the right to use our buses, but don't you dare tell me where I can and can't run my directly operated lines. I'll take those buses back in a heartbeat". Last I recall, NJT is the one running supreme in this state. They are the ones most people here talk about when it comes to transit.They are the ones who order the state-owned buses and use them properly instead of using them for charter purposes (which is illegal) and don't you dare say they don't do it, because I've caught em' doing it numerous times. They only get away with it because NJT never notices, and people don't know it's illegal so they won't say anything.  I've told you this already when we were discussing the 817 and  frankly idc if I have to say it a million times over, the P/O's may have the rights to drive the route but at the end of the day, NJT is the one making the decisions about what happens. I'm sorry if I came off as harsh here, but I think it's time you saw things from someone else's perspective besides your own.

 

My routes that run near private ops would've been joint run. I've been trying to tell you that this whole entire time. Most of those are actually there to reach customers who aren't near the current P/O bus line. Most of my lines barely touch those contract lines at all,

[qjtransitmaster]

You're like the Bill O'Reilly of transit or something. That bold part is one of the main reasons you get treated the way you do around here. You gotta stop it with this disrespectful attitude of yours. I'm 16 you're like in your 20s and you're screaming at me while I'm keeping my cool here (for the most part because I'll admit I've snapped the chain a couple times). It's like Harry told you in that SEPTA bridge thread:

 

 

Talkin' bout I don't understand transit...give me a break , the real question here is if I didn't know what I was talking about, would I be posting here at all?

 

I don't who's filling your head with this "the P/O's can make NJT their b***h when it comes to routes"  BS, but I'm not buying it one bit. If the contractors told NJT what to do, NJT wouldn't be leasing their buses out to em anymore. If I were NJT, and that happened, I would be like "Be glad I at least gave you the right to use our buses, but don't you dare tell me where I can and can't run my directly operated lines. I'll take those buses back in a heartbeat". Last I recall, NJT is the one running supreme in this state. They are the ones most people here talk about when it comes to transit.They are the ones who order the state-owned buses and use them properly instead of using them for charter purposes (which is illegal) and don't you dare say they don't do it, because I've caught em' doing it numerous times. They only get away with it because NJT never notices, and people don't know it's illegal so they won't say anything.  I've told you this already when we were discussing the 817 and  frankly idc if I have to say it a million times over, the P/O's may have the rights to drive the route but at the end of the day, NJT is the one making the decisions about what happens. I'm sorry if I came off as harsh here, but I think it's time you saw things from someone else's perspective besides your own.

 

My routes that run near private ops would've been joint run. I've been trying to tell you that this whole entire time. Most of those are actually there to reach customers who aren't near the current P/O bus line. Most of my lines barely touch those contract lines at all,

state policy drop it and try to come with something new if that is within your capabilities BUT I still think you will get there eventually. I don't sense harshness from ya. I noticed you improved big time remember your 55x idea?

[B35 via Church]

state policy drop it and try to come with something new if that is within your capabilities BUT I still think you will get there eventually. I don't sense harshness from ya. I noticed you improved big time remember your 55x idea?

What is this 55x idea of his you keep going on & on about.....

[DaTransitMan4608]

What is this 55x idea of his you keep going on & on about.....

My 556 & 557.

[B35 via Church]

My 556 & 557.

So I see....

 

I didn't think those particular ideas were that bad, especially as much as he keeps bringing it up, but w/e......

[qjtransitmaster]

I guess I will speak up now NJ central ocean/mercer

 

Proposal 1 607 converted to regional connector route linking mercer to ocean segment south of TTC dropped reroute via I-195 to hamilton marketplace then to jackson P&R serves six flags during summers then via rte 571 to replace OC10 via rte 37 to toms river terminal then via forked river replacing a part of OC5 (details later) then via GSP to LBI south replacing the abysmal OC9.

 

406 select runs extend to Ocean county with hourly headways via rte 70 replace most of OC1A via 572 to OC mall then ends at toms river terminal.

 

413 reshaped it's burlington segment is transferred to an extended and restructured 459(full service) this reroutes via B1's routing then replaces OC1 but skips OC1's deviations to save time and goes directly to the dover P&R.

 

OR 413 ends in country lake estates BUT 317 rerouted to skip  new egypt via going directly to rte 70 reaching Point pleasant faster ect to asbury park. 

 

139 select trips extend via rte 9 to toms river 559 truncated at toms river or rerouted (off-peak only) to absorb parts of  OC3 and 3A to point pleasant but preferably truncated there at toms river. At rush hr only 139X trips extend to toms river with 136 as well. New fulltime 64s extend to brick or OC mall via rte 88 and fischer blvd  BUT at rush only 130/132 trips extend and only to brick plaza or to lavalette(select runs).  With OC3A/3 absorbed into 63 and academy wall street service.

 

new 60 via 67's Ocean route between Brick plaza and dover P&R then via GSP stops at wal-mart and wall township P&R then cheese quake express. At rush hr 60 skips monmouth county stops direct to brick P&R then toms river then replaces parts of OC7.

 

607 skips forked river at rush hr use academy instead. Wall street and PABT academy parkway express completely erase OC5. 

[DaTransitMan4608]

I guess I will speak up now NJ central ocean/mercer

 

Proposal 1 607 converted to regional connector route linking mercer to ocean segment south of TTC dropped reroute via I-195 to hamilton marketplace then to jackson P&R serves six flags during summers then via rte 571 to replace OC10 via rte 37 to toms river terminal then via forked river replacing a part of OC5 (details later) then via GSP to LBI south replacing the abysmal OC9.

 

406 select runs extend to Ocean county with hourly headways via rte 70 replace most of OC1A via 572 to OC mall then ends at toms river terminal.

 

413 reshaped it's burlington segment is transferred to an extended and restructured 459(full service) this reroutes via B1's routing then replaces OC1 but skips OC1's deviations to save time and goes directly to the dover P&R.

 

OR 413 ends in country lake estates BUT 317 rerouted to skip  new egypt via going directly to rte 70 reaching Point pleasant faster ect to asbury park. 

 

139 select trips extend via rte 9 to toms river 559 truncated at toms river or rerouted (off-peak only) to absorb parts of  OC3 and 3A to point pleasant but preferably truncated there at toms river. At rush hr only 139X trips extend to toms river with 136 as well. New fulltime 64s extend to brick or OC mall via rte 88 and fischer blvd  BUT at rush only 130/132 trips extend and only to brick plaza or to lavalette(select runs).  With OC3A/3 absorbed into 63 and academy wall street service.

 

new 60 via 67's Ocean route between Brick plaza and dover P&R then via GSP stops at wal-mart and wall township P&R then cheese quake express. At rush hr 60 skips monmouth county stops direct to brick P&R then toms river then replaces parts of OC7.

 

607 skips forked river at rush hr use academy instead. Wall street and PABT academy parkway express completely erase OC5. 

Sorry about the bad rep, hit that button instead of the quote by accident.

 

Anyway lets get down to business......

 

I had that idea for the 139 too. I was gonna post it here but you beat me to it. Since the 67 is the only route that can take you North of there (559 will only take you so far North) and since it runs every two hours, it's not as frequent as it should be. Some people use the 67 to get between Toms River and Freehold Mall, and the 559/139 combo isn't very convenient.

 

Damn it. I had the 60 designation claimed first . But if you want to use it then I'm alright with it since I want to change it to 61, only problem is my Route 1 Express already has that. I'm actually looking to change that number too, was gonna call it the 361, but I prefer to leave that as the 1's express designation. Here's what I've got so far.

 

61: Union Beach-Weehawken (Maybe i'll push this line back to Port Monmouth.) This could work in organization sort of way. My modified 131 uses '35 and this would too. Imagine hearing that on the 817's clever device.  TRANSFER TO 61 & 131.

301: I want to use this one, but I think one of my proposed lines has this # designation already.

 

 

Now I'm calling on some of Essex County experts for help on my next route. I want to make a route going from any place in Essex County that's around the Newark area to NYC, not the immediate area though, but something that's close enough for Hilton to do. The problem is I don't where such a route can begin that isn't around any contractors or existing interstate lines. I wanted to have it begin in West Caldwell, but I think DeCamp or Community Coach has them covered.

[go25]

Sorry about the bad rep, hit that button instead of the quote by accident.

 

Anyway lets get down to business......

 

I had that idea for the 139 too. I was gonna post it here but you beat me to it. Since the 67 is the only route that can take you North of there (559 will only take you so far North) and since it runs every two hours, it's not as frequent as it should be. Some people use the 67 to get between Toms River and Freehold Mall, and the 559/139 combo isn't very convenient.

 

Damn it. I had the 60 designation claimed first . But if you want to use it then I'm alright with it since I want to change it to 61, only problem is my Route 1 Express already has that. I'm actually looking to change that number too, was gonna call it the 361, but I prefer to leave that as the 1's express designation. Here's what I've got so far.

 

61: Union Beach-Weehawken (Maybe i'll push this line back to Port Monmouth.) This could work in organization sort of way. My modified 131 uses '35 and this would too. Imagine hearing that on the 817's clever device. TRANSFER TO 61 & 131.

301: I want to use this one, but I think one of my proposed lines has this # designation already.

 

 

Now I'm calling on some of Essex County experts for help on my next route. I want to make a route going from any place in Essex County that's around the Newark area to NYC, not the immediate area though, but something that's close enough for Hilton to do. The problem is I don't where such a route can begin that isn't around any contractors or existing interstate lines. I wanted to have it begin in West Caldwell, but I think DeCamp or Community Coach has them covered.

You hit the nail on the West Caldwell area, I forgot who does the service. Sorry to say this but the 108 will do, besides Hilton is not close to West Caldwell, Orange is

[DaTransitMan4608]

You hit the nail on the West Caldwell area, I forgot who does the service. Sorry to say this but the 108 will do, besides Hilton is not close to West Caldwell, Orange is

Yeah I know. But what I mean is something that's not in the Newark area, something like Bloomfield or Belleville for example

[go25]

Hmmm DeCamp has Belleville, Bloomfield, Montclair. And CC (Community Coach) runs the #77, which is the from PABT to Morristown via Orange, Route 10. Just to give you the idea

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah I know. But what I mean is something that's not in the Newark area, something like Bloomfield or Belleville for example

I see so you can't comment on ocean county? fine then I will help you out a bit http://www.co.ocean.nj.us/transportation/TransportationRouteLinkPage.aspx

 

look at the schedules then you will know why I think NJT should cut em off.

 

Anybody who can say something about South jersey or am I by myself here like with Philadelphia and MD where there are nobody else on here who have been to those places extensively?

Edited May 4, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[DaTransitMan4608]

I see so you can't comment on ocean county? fine then I will help you out a bit http://www.co.ocean.nj.us/transportation/TransportationRouteLinkPage.aspx

 

look at the schedules then you will know why I think NJT should cut em off.

 

Anybody who can say something about South jersey or am I by myself here like with Philadelphia and MD where there are nobody else on here who have been to those places extensively?

I wasn't talking about Ocean County at all.........

 

But if you think OceanRide should get the electric chair then no one here's looking to stop you.

 

 

You're not really alone with Philly, I know about most of their routes. Mainly about the ones from Midvale garage. But I'm a little rusty on it since I haven't taken SEPTA in a while.

[qjtransitmaster]

I wasn't talking about Ocean County at all.........

 

But if you think OceanRide should get the electric chair then no one here's looking to stop you.

 

 

You're not really alone with Philly, I know about most of their routes. Mainly about the ones from Midvale garage. But I'm a little rusty on it since I haven't taken SEPTA in a while.

Interesting go on. I'd like to know a summary of what sucks about SEPTA's bus lines HINT: in a nutshell indirect routes and lack of direct service to major employers and destinations.  LOL @ electric chair comment. I however know more about SEPTA's outer routes like 100s and 90 series than the center city area.

Edited May 5, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

Trans-bridge flemington line route between NYC and branchburg,NJ rerouted via I-287 then piscataway at rush hr avoiding traffic but serving industrial areas then via NJ turnpike to NYC. Should ridership increase service is upgraded accordingly. 

Edited May 6, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[NoHuBus]

I want to chip to a proposal how about route 10 going old school and going to Hague St as an endpoint as a varient to the red and tan 231 so more central ave service goes there without realing on the 88C as much. Let the 119 have some service in the midday to and from New York. Central ave to me is underused and the 87 is not enough becuase it does not go fully to central ave. What you guys think?

[checkmatechamp13]

I noticed a few gaps in Camden where a bus might be useful:

 

* Centerville south of Ferry Avenue

 

* The area east of Broadway, and west of the North-South Freeway (around 8th/9th Streets)

 

* West of Broadway, around 3rd/4th Street (it's industrial west of 3rd, but residential east of it)

 

I made a quick map of a way to restucture the #450 (by splitting it into two routes). I don't know how detrimental it would be to the ridership to serve 4th Street instead of Broadway (what destinations I'd be missing), or for that matter, if the fact that I'm running it on side streets in the Bergen Square area would reduce the amount of demand for service (considering how many abandoned homes are in Camden). I also don't know how much demand there is in those parts of Collingswood & Westmont for new service.

 

I'd lean towards saying there isn't enough demand to support both routes, but I want to see what others think.