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NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013


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400 series reshaping proposals coming soon. Which involve streamlined service on many lines and some cases new service connections that are faster and more direct. Some influenced by other members like in Gloucester county. Stay tuned.

I hope that includes better connections to the RiverLINE, PATCO, and the ACRL.

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I hope that includes better connections to the RiverLINE, PATCO, and the ACRL.

Mostly the PATCO and streamlining of the 406. And removal of some duplication between routes to maximize ridership. But it's not complete tell me how many people on federal street are going to Camden via 405&407 vs transferring to 409s for quicker service? Do a significant amount switch to 409 to avoid WRTC for Philadelphia?

Edited by qjtransitmaster
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Is this actually happening or just an idea? Just wondering ;-)

Some idea of his.... that it's likely we'll never see the details of anyway.

 

What he does is blurt out ideas of ideas, but seldom ever posts details of his ideas.

(If I have an idea, I would go on ahead & post it - Not claim it's incomplete before the fact)....

 

 

- Besides, NJT isn't gonna restructure the 400 routes all in one shot like that.

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Some idea of his.... that it's likely we'll never see the details of anyway.

 

What he does is blurt out ideas of ideas, but seldom ever posts details of his ideas.

(If I have an idea, I would go on ahead & post it - Not claim it's incomplete before the fact)....

 

 

- Besides, NJT isn't gonna restructure the 400 routes all in one shot like that.

You got a point but I want to weed out some kinks that may be of issue. Plus one of my ideas was influenced by another member it involves additional 15 round trips to the 313 with 408's local routing being transferred to another route whilst creating a crosstown via US 130 to E Camden via ferry avenue PATCO then marlton pike to pennsuhaken to replace some of the 419 that still has riders. But from what I heard 408 has low ridership so that part can be selected trips with other trips to other areas. I would try for speeding up 410 if possible but not sure if that would hurt ridership. 406 is slow enough on rte 70 E Camden only makes it much worse. Plus I am starting to doubt if Camden is a real major destination as people tend to avoid Camden yet NJT doesn't have buses operating based on actual travel patterns. My idea to revive 405 renumbers it to it's original designation and the new form replaces parts of 453,451&452 creating a route structured as a feeder to many bus routes and PATCO in laymen terms it's not meant to be used end to end.

 

 

On a serious note what is 404 ridership like on federal street en route to Philly is it too full to take more riders?

Edited by qjtransitmaster
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Is this actually happening or just an idea? Just wondering ;-)

It depends if I decide to have a serious talk with some NJT folks but it's just an idea. With NJT's funding and resources I am not even sure if the ideas I have can work within such constraints. Are you versed with the 407?

 

 

I hope that includes better connections to the RiverLINE, PATCO, and the ACRL.

I don't feel like retyping lost data but 405 to Voorhees via chapel ave & Kingston Dr and I-295 to woodcrest PATCO (via cty road 154 to PATCO at rush to avoid traffic)replacing 451 partially. That's one of my ideas. The duplicate portion of 451 dropped without replacement. I mean it has the highest subsidies out of any NJT route for a reason.

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^^ Multi-quoting is your friend.... Just saying.

 

 

You got a point but I want to weed out some kinks that may be of issue.

 

Plus one of my ideas was influenced by another member it involves additional 15 round trips to the 313 with 408's local routing being transferred to another route whilst creating a crosstown via US 130 to E Camden via ferry avenue PATCO then marlton pike to pennsuhaken to replace some of the 419 that still has riders. But from what I heard 408 has low ridership so that part can be selected trips with other trips to other areas. I would try for speeding up 410 if possible but not sure if that would hurt ridership. 406 is slow enough on rte 70 E Camden only makes it much worse. Plus I am starting to doubt if Camden is a real major destination as people tend to avoid Camden yet NJT doesn't have buses operating based on actual travel patterns. My idea to revive 405 renumbers it to it's original designation and the new form replaces parts of 453,451&452 creating a route structured as a feeder to many bus routes and PATCO in laymen terms it's not meant to be used end to end.

 

 

On a serious note what is 404 ridership like on federal street en route to Philly is it too full to take more riders?

There's no problem with ironing out kinks (which is what you're supposed to do)... But on the same token, you made it sound like you had everything ironed out in that original post.....

 

as for the 404 (which I've been on a couple times to/from cherry hill mall), most of its usage (outside of those simply looking to take *any bus* to philly) is along Westfield....  after it turns off westfield (towards the mall), activity decreases rather significantly (sans the mall itself obviously).....

 

Camden is a gateway to philly..... It isn't that people are seeking Camden in the numbers that you see so many waiting around/at Walter Rand, outside of that.... It's no accident that NJT cut service on some routes back from philly, ending at camden (403, 405, 407, 413.... think there was one or two more)

 

...and what's this about 15 round trips on the 313??? lmao... you can't be serious with that.

 

It depends if I decide to have a serious talk with some NJT folks but it's just an idea. With NJT's funding and resources I am not even sure if the ideas I have can work within such constraints. Are you versed with the 407?

I'd say they're pretty much set in stone, as far as south jersey bus service is concerned... They wont budge.

Edited by B35 via Church
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My only issue would be to beef up the 313 between Mlv/Vineland to Philly. The 408 does nothing. I can see 15 round trips on the 313 between mlv/vld&philly. There going to always cut 408 service until it ends up becoming what the 402 is. The routing alone forces some to wait on the 313. There ppl i see all the time who work schedule is based on the 313.

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My only issue would be to beef up the 313 between Mlv/Vineland to Philly. The 408 does nothing. I can see 15 round trips on the 313 between mlv/vld&philly. There going to always cut 408 service until it ends up becoming what the 402 is. The routing alone forces some to wait on the 313. There ppl i see all the time who work schedule is based on the 313.

Between millville/vineland & philly, yes.... However 15 round trips on the full 313 is just plain crazy.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hey guys I think I figured a temporary solution to the bus traffic problems in and around PABT. Leave the buses used for peak hours in NYC at the end of AM rush at a lot NJT could buy, and then have a bus (or 2) come to PABT and pick up the drivers and take them back to their garages. It's just a thought.

 

 

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Hey guys I think I figured a temporary solution to the bus traffic problems in and around PABT. Leave the buses used for peak hours in NYC at the end of AM rush at a lot NJT could buy, and then have a bus (or 2) come to PABT and pick up the drivers and take them back to their garages. It's just a thought.

 

 

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Ok this is your most brilliant post NICE. However won't NJT attract new riders by boosting reverse -peak service and letting drivers and passengers share a bus due to lower ridership?

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Hey guys I think I figured a temporary solution to the bus traffic problems in and around PABT. Leave the buses used for peak hours in NYC at the end of AM rush at a lot NJT could buy, and then have a bus (or 2) come to PABT and pick up the drivers and take them back to their garages. It's just a thought.

 

 

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OLD idea.  This is already done, at several different lots (29th Street, 38th Street, Galvin, Weehawken, UBL - Upper Bus Level/PABT 4th Floor)... the buses that transport operators back to their garages are called taxi's.  They are built into specific paddles.  

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OLD idea.  This is already done, at several different lots (29th Street, 38th Street, Galvin, Weehawken, UBL - Upper Bus Level/PABT 4th Floor)... the buses that transport operators back to their garages are called taxi's.  They are built into specific paddles.  

How can NJT make 171& 188 relevant again?

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Camden is a gateway to philly..... It isn't that people are seeking Camden in the numbers that you see so many waiting around/at Walter Rand, outside of that.... It's no accident that NJT cut service on some routes back from philly, ending at camden (403, 405, 407, 413.... think there was one or two more)

 

419 was another route that used to serve Philadelphia before it was cut back to Camden.

 

Indirectly related, but in Center City Philadelphia, there's a block-long vacant property at 8th and Market. I'm surprised nobody has ever thought about relocating the Greyhound Terminal from it's current (cramped and very sketchy) location at 11-Filbert.  (1) It makes it a lot easier for buses to navigate in and out from 8-Market compared to 11-Filbert, (2) much easier connections to Market-Frankford, Broad-Ridge Spur and PATCO, and (3) by potentially having all NJT buses terminate at 8-Market, you eliminate that time consuming loop along Market, Broad and Vine Streets that tends to foul up the South Jersey locals, especially the 400.

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How can NJT make 171& 188 relevant again?

Being that those lines service the Bridge, not much that I'm aware of.  Matter of fact, I suspect the only reason those lines still exist are:  1) Monthly passes; 2) Transfers; 3) Senior fares; 4) ADA accommodations - none of which the jitneys have.  Also, in the case of the 171, it services the Radburn section of Fair Lawn, which the jitneys do not do.  

 

The Bridge terminal has been dying a slow death for years.  Few people want to take a bus there, then a long subway ride downtown.  For people who work or do business in the Washington Heights area, it's convenient, but that's about it.  The lack of an XBL during peak hours is also a handicap.  

 

Traffic at the George can be just as volatile and unpredictable as the Tunnel, if not more so.  A bird craps on the Cross Bronx or the Major Deagan and it's over as a Kardashian marriage.  

 

One idea I have, for when the renovation is over, is if the Port allows the MTA to have access to the bus platforms.  The MTA can send the bus lines that terminate on the streets around the building up onto the platforms and then it can be marketed for people traveling to the Bronx or even Westchester as a convenient transit option.  

 

But realistically, short of a dedicated full time XBL, or a BRT/busway system along Route 4, I honestly don't see much in terms of reversing the ridership trends at the Bridge.  

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Being that those lines service the Bridge, not much that I'm aware of.  Matter of fact, I suspect the only reason those lines still exist are:  1) Monthly passes; 2) Transfers; 3) Senior fares; 4) ADA accommodations - none of which the jitneys have.  Also, in the case of the 171, it services the Radburn section of Fair Lawn, which the jitneys do not do.  

 

The Bridge terminal has been dying a slow death for years.  Few people want to take a bus there, then a long subway ride downtown.  For people who work or do business in the Washington Heights area, it's convenient, but that's about it.  The lack of an XBL during peak hours is also a handicap.  

 

Traffic at the George can be just as volatile and unpredictable as the Tunnel, if not more so.  A bird craps on the Cross Bronx or the Major Deagan and it's over as a Kardashian marriage.  

 

One idea I have, for when the renovation is over, is if the Port allows the MTA to have access to the bus platforms.  The MTA can send the bus lines that terminate on the streets around the building up onto the platforms and then it can be marketed for people traveling to the Bronx or even Westchester as a convenient transit option.  

 

But realistically, short of a dedicated full time XBL, or a BRT/busway system along Route 4, I honestly don't see much in terms of reversing the ridership trends at the Bridge.  

Major deegan you mean MAJOR SHITSHOW expressway I mean "Major Shitshow parking lot " is the proper term. Jokes aside a LTD stop service on rte 4 can do wonders with the 175& 700s being locals on various segments of rte 4 later with a bus lane and say the LTD be a new bus with designation as 18 radburn- journal sq via rte 4,GWB bridge plaza, river rd and JFK Blvd west as a LTD for the 88& parts of 158 and local buses based on rte 4 like 756,755/51,175 ect those needing speed end to end there are trains for that purpose especially those in north Bergen county needing Newark ect. The secaucus jct station was one of the most brilliant moves NJT made sadly it's not maximized to it's potential I think a bus component is either missing or woefully incomplete. If secaucus was at full potential some port authority buses can be sent to GWB via secaucus jct to reduce over crowded conditions at PABT and even a stop at Vince Lombardi with other NJ buses and you can do away with the 321 in the process whilst allowing new intrastate riders to get more direct service and adding new markets at the same time. 

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GWB via Secacus? You have any idea how out of the way that is? Plus people are fed up with PABT as it is. You think they're gonna be okay with a terminal as dirty as GWB? Plus GWB is up Washington Heights, which is even more out of the way for those who work in Midtown.

 

 

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GWB via Secacus? You have any idea how out of the way that is? Plus people are fed up with PABT as it is. You think they're gonna be okay with a terminal as dirty as GWB? Plus GWB is up Washington Heights, which is even more out of the way for those who work in Midtown.

 

 

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Keywords via secaucus guess what is at secaucus trains to Penn station pick your hellhole they all suck.

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Keywords via secaucus guess what is at secaucus trains to Penn station pick your hellhole they all suck.

I'm not even gonna argue with you about this. I've told you this damn near a thousand times already, you can't send NYC-bound buses to Secaucus. The passengers aren't gonna like it and it's not gonna be a feasible solution. The Hudson Tunnels are falling apart as it is, trains are becoming more and more crowded and you still wanna have buses dump passengers at Secaucus.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Some restructuring in the Passaic area:

 

#707 follows the #709 route between Passaic & Garfield (straight down the Passaic Street bridge instead of looping around Monroe Street and 8th Street.

 

#758 runs straight down Monroe Street

 

#744 runs down Dayton Street and Market Street.

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  • 5 months later...

I know they're doing construction in the Hudson River Tubes on the weekends, where the trains have to be bunched up entering and leaving Manhattan, but is there enough intra-NJ ridership for the following proposals?

 

Extend the Gladstone short-turns (assuming they're not bustituting them anymore) down to either Newark or Hoboken and space the trains out to provide 30 minute headways between Summit and Newark (maybe have a 40 minute gap, then the Gladstone train, and then a 20 minute gap for the NYP train)?

 

Add an extra train per hour to the NE Corridor Line that uses the Waterfront Connection, that at least gives intra-NJ riders an option to reach Newark.

 

I also noticed that there's a lot of neighborhoods in some of those medium-sized cities (New Brunswick, Elizabeth, Paterson) that don't have Sunday service. For example, in New Brunswick, the #810, #815, and #818 are the only routes with Sunday service (unless I missed one), and those serve the area by the train station on the northern side of the city. If you live along say, Livingston Avenue, you have to walk all the way to either the Jersey Avenue or New Brunswick stations. In Paterson, the Northside area has no Sunday service (the #712 goes out towards Totowa, so that doesn't count), and in Elizabeth, the area by the Goethals Bridge has no Sunday service.

 

In Paterson, I think I offered the suggestion of running the #703 & #744 to that area on Sundays. For the other areas, I'd have to look into how to restructure the routes to give those areas Sunday service.

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