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NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013


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20 hours ago, go25 said:

The 112 goes by North Elizabeth station on North Ave, so it does clear the underpass.

The #112 runs on Fairmount at the underpass & avoids NJT North Elizabeth rail....

qJFRoKf.jpg

 

I know that diversion @BreeddekalbL is referring to & I've also found it odd as to why the #112 does that..... If there are select trips that continue along North av by the RR station there (thus making it not a clearance related issue), then that diversion makes even less sense.... If that diversion is an attempt at a ridership grab, then it's a poor one IMO.... If that's their way of saying *service to North Elizabeth rail sucks, here's service to Elizabeth rail instead*, well that could be one explanation - but why does that have to come at the expense of other #112 riders needing service further down the line.... The diversion FWIW is a waste of time.

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1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

The #112 runs on Fairmount at the underpass & avoids NJT North Elizabeth rail....

qJFRoKf.jpg

 

I know that diversion @BreeddekalbL is referring to & I've also found it odd as to why the #112 does that..... If there are select trips that continue along North av by the RR station there (thus making it not a clearance related issue), then that diversion makes even less sense.... If that diversion is an attempt at a ridership grab, then it's a poor one IMO.... If that's their way of saying *service to North Elizabeth rail sucks, here's service to Elizabeth rail instead*, well that could be one explanation - but why does that have to come at the expense of other #112 riders needing service further down the line.... The diversion FWIW is a waste of time.

Hmmm, I always thought it goes by there, I stand corrected. Looking at it now, WTH. Just why?!

Edited by go25
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On 2/4/2020 at 12:44 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

random thought with the 112 why don't they eliminate that stupid U jog that they do in elizabeth between Newark ave and madison ave 

 

On 2/7/2020 at 9:02 AM, B35 via Church said:

I'm not so sure a bus can clear the underpass at the North Elizabeth RR station.....

 

2 hours ago, go25 said:

Hmmm, I always thought it goes by there, I stand corrected. Looking at it now, WTH. Just why?!

Yeah, the clearance is 10' 7'' (as seen here), which is too low for an MCI bus (11' 5") to clear.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven
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56 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

 

Yeah, the clearance is 10' 7'' (as seen here), which is too low for an MCI bus (11' 5") to 

Cant see an easy fix, as that would require 2 options: 

One would be to close that segment of North Ave and rebuild it by making the road deeper, at a cost of flooding easily, and second would be terminating service at Elizabeth, and at Newark Airport stations and do a massive 24 hour replacement...

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To expand on the 113/114 issues 

Regarding the 113N

how about splitting off the north ave branch run it every hour and making it's own route as the 110

the 113 S and X

devote the resources there and split the express off to it's own pkwy express route as the 118 and pair it like the 114/117

Edited by BreeddekalbL
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  • 2 weeks later...
13 hours ago, Jova42R said:

1900X: Rockland-Manhattan Express

  • MAIN STOPS ONLY!
  • Spring Valley
  • Chestnut Ridge
  • Nanuet
  • Pearl River
  • Montvale
  • Northvale
  • Closter
    • express via Rt 9W
  • GWB Plaza
  • GWB Terminal
    • express via HH Pkwy
  • PA Bus Terminal

Thoughts? @go25 @B35 via Church @BreeddekalbL

sounds insane

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On 2/13/2020 at 2:40 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

To expand on the 113/114 issues 

Regarding the 113N

how about splitting off the north ave branch run it every hour and making it's own route as the 110

the 113 S and X

devote the resources there and split the express off to it's own pkwy express route as the 118 and pair it like the 114/117

My issue with the #113 has less to do with the 113N vs. the 113S & more to do with the fact that it serves Dunellen.... The mileage it spends running between (Downtown) Plainfield & Dunellen, should be spent running between (Downtown) Plainfield & South Plainfield IMO.... Both the #113 & the 114 are not needed in Dunellen.... It's part of the reason why I'd suggest cutting the #114 back to Plainfield & have the #117 take on the #114's course west of it.....

-------------------

As far as what you're saying, let me get this right.... You want to rename the #113N to the "#110", rename the #113X to the "#118", dedicate more resources to [the #113S & the "#118"], to have "#110's" run every hour?

The #113 doesn't have the same problem the #114 has, so I'm not really understanding why you'd have (or inquire that) the #113S & the #113X operate similarly to the #114/117...

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Just now, B35 via Church said:

For starters, there is no need to have a route of sorts serving both GWB terminal and PABT....

What is this fixation with having buses operate on the Henry Hudson Pkwy all about....

Ok, so it’d end at GWBBT.

The HH Pkwy was the fastest way from GWBBT to PABT, I’m fine running it on Broadway or another street.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 2/25/2020 at 8:58 PM, Jova42R said:

1900X: Rockland-Manhattan Express

  • MAIN STOPS ONLY!
  • Spring Valley
  • Chestnut Ridge
  • Nanuet
  • Pearl River
  • Montvale
  • Northvale
  • Closter
    • express via Rt 9W
  • GWB Plaza
  • GWB Terminal
    • express via HH Pkwy
  • PA Bus Terminal

Thoughts? @go25 @B35 via Church @BreeddekalbL

I think if any bus is going to serve both GWB and Midtown, it should serve East Midtown, serving Mount Sinai, Harlem, and the stops formerly served by the M98.

...but I don't know if demand warrants it.

Edited by Q101 E Midtown
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  • 3 weeks later...

Here's my North Jersey Interurban:

Thoughts @B35 via Church @Q101 E Midtown @BreeddekalbL @go25 @BM5 via Woodhaven?

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On 4/9/2020 at 3:31 PM, Jova42R said:

Here's my North Jersey Interurban:

Thoughts @B35 via Church @Q101 E Midtown @BreeddekalbL @go25 @BM5 via Woodhaven?

In terms of fleet, it'll likely be uniform with the rest of the NJT rail fleet, so they'll be using the same equipment as on other lines. 

As far as I see it, I don't see much of anyone trying to get from Butler, Pompton Lakes, and that area north of route 208 and west of route 17, towards GWB. I don't even see them going to Patterson or Hackensack to warrant such a service for intrastate service. As far as Midtown service goes the buses west of route 17 (NJT 194, NJT 197 and ShortLine) would be about the same, if not faster than the train to get to Midtown. Perhaps originating from Patterson (towards Midtown) may work. Personally though, I feel that Midtown direct for the Main/Bergen County and Pascack Valley Lines should be looked into (and have some more express trips on each of those lines). 

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  • 4 months later...

Since I was thinking on how Jersey City's bus network has been ravaged by cuts especially the Lafayette/Greenville neighborhoods, what would you propose to bring back certain route(s) back?

 

I was thinking about bringing back the 4 and assigning it to Greenville. The route would stay the same, serving Newport Mall from Merritt St and Ocean Ave, but added to it would be to take a page out of the 6 and serve Lafayette Loop (for people wanting to take the HBLR) on hourly trips on weekdays, and weekends would go like: Newport Mall via Ocean Ave & Lafayette Loop, and Merritt St. via Lafayette Loop & Ocean Ave full time.

Thoughts?

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On 8/24/2020 at 7:10 AM, go25 said:

Since I was thinking on how Jersey City's bus network has been ravaged by cuts especially the Lafayette/Greenville neighborhoods, what would you propose to bring back certain route(s) back?

 

I was thinking about bringing back the 4 and assigning it to Greenville. The route would stay the same, serving Newport Mall from Merritt St and Ocean Ave, but added to it would be to take a page out of the 6 and serve Lafayette Loop (for people wanting to take the HBLR) on hourly trips on weekdays, and weekends would go like: Newport Mall via Ocean Ave & Lafayette Loop, and Merritt St. via Lafayette Loop & Ocean Ave full time.

Thoughts?

I might have agreed to that a few years ago, but thinking now, I don't think it'll be useful. I mean, you have the #86, #1, and #6 that serves Lafayette Loop. I would maybe increase the #6 to liberty state park since that would be the best route to benefit that area. 

To me, I would like to see the Red & Tan #11 and the Lafayette & Greenville IBOA #16 return. From Journal Square, there is no direct service to Newport Mall (unless you get the path) and no direct service to Liberty State Park. The #16 was always crowded because most of the people came from Monticello Avenue and McGinley Square. I remember a driver who use to work for the company and he said the route was great, but the company was doing poorly. As for the #11, I just can't believe that no bus route has served the park in years. It would have been a gold mine now (with this illness).

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18 hours ago, dkm07302 said:

I might have agreed to that a few years ago, but thinking now, I don't think it'll be useful. I mean, you have the #86, #1, and #6 that serves Lafayette Loop. I would maybe increase the #6 to liberty state park since that would be the best route to benefit that area. 

To me, I would like to see the Red & Tan #11 and the Lafayette & Greenville IBOA #16 return. From Journal Square, there is no direct service to Newport Mall (unless you get the path) and no direct service to Liberty State Park. The #16 was always crowded because most of the people came from Monticello Avenue and McGinley Square. I remember a driver who use to work for the company and he said the route was great, but the company was doing poorly. As for the #11, I just can't believe that no bus route has served the park in years. It would have been a gold mine now (with this illness).

If you take away what NJT did to the 1 and 86, in terms of serving segments where the 4 did, I'm sure it would work. After all, the 4 goes to downtown JC while the 6 goes to Journal Square.

In terms of LSP, its asinine that the park has no direct bus service since the 11, 231, and 305 (to a very small extent) gotten the ax. I agree that the 6 should serve it more and help entice passengers to use the HBLR.

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16 hours ago, go25 said:

If you take away what NJT did to the 1 and 86, in terms of serving segments where the 4 did, I'm sure it would work. After all, the 4 goes to downtown JC while the 6 goes to Journal Square.

In terms of LSP, its asinine that the park has no direct bus service since the 11, 231, and 305 (to a very small extent) gotten the ax. I agree that the 6 should serve it more and help entice passengers to use the HBLR.

I get what you mean on the #4 bus but I think it ok the way it is, but could use a few tweaks. I like the #4 bus and was dumbfounded when  A&C Bus Corp ended it. The bus was always active and didn't understand why they didn't just cut the hours or add a trip. 

As for LSP not having a bus service, that is something I'd wonder for over a decade. You have a lot of people now that would use that transportation just to get out the house and spend the day. Even a small shuttle van would be great at this point. 

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  • 1 month later...

So here is an idea for some Newark-area restructuring:

#74 rerouted south of Passaic Bus Terminal to operate via Passaic Avenue-Van Houten Avenue-Route 21, and then follows the #76X route through Downtown Newark to reach Newark Broad Street & Newark Penn Station.

#92 rerouted north of Bloomfield Center to take over the #72 route to Paterson (this serves two purposes: It allows riders from the Paterson-Bloomfield portion of the #72 to access the Morris & Essex Line, with all of the alternative crosstown routes that get you into Downtown Newark, there's no reason why someone would backtrack on the #92 from South Orange or Orange over to Forest Hill to catch the light rail).

#96 extended up North 6th Street, Franklin Avenue, Belleville Avenue, and Broad Street to Bloomfield Center (covers the Belleville Avenue portion of the #92 and also provides access to Clara Maas Medical Center from the South and Central Wards).

#90 extended to Passaic via the present-day #74 route.

Still trying to figure out if there's a way to salvage the #74U. Maybe restructure it with the #13C (from Delawanna Avenue, make a left onto Main Avenue, a right onto Allwood Road, and then follow the #13 route to the end). 

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10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So here is an idea for some Newark-area restructuring:

#74 rerouted south of Passaic Bus Terminal to operate via Passaic Avenue-Van Houten Avenue-Route 21, and then follows the #76X route through Downtown Newark to reach Newark Broad Street & Newark Penn Station.

#92 rerouted north of Bloomfield Center to take over the #72 route to Paterson (this serves two purposes: It allows riders from the Paterson-Bloomfield portion of the #72 to access the Morris & Essex Line, with all of the alternative crosstown routes that get you into Downtown Newark, there's no reason why someone would backtrack on the #92 from South Orange or Orange over to Forest Hill to catch the light rail).

#96 extended up North 6th Street, Franklin Avenue, Belleville Avenue, and Broad Street to Bloomfield Center (covers the Belleville Avenue portion of the #92 and also provides access to Clara Maas Medical Center from the South and Central Wards).

#90 extended to Passaic via the present-day #74 route.

Still trying to figure out if there's a way to salvage the #74U. Maybe restructure it with the #13C (from Delawanna Avenue, make a left onto Main Avenue, a right onto Allwood Road, and then follow the #13 route to the end). 

Here's my take: Not every route needs to serve Penn Station. The 74 gets its crowd by NOT going to Penn, rather helping out the, at times, overcrowded 72, with its terminus at Branch Brook Park.

The 90 is a mess on it's own.

The 96 is a  ghost route, to me that is. I would have to ride those routes again to have a general idea.

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4 hours ago, go25 said:

Here's my take: Not every route needs to serve Penn Station. The 74 gets its crowd by NOT going to Penn, rather helping out the, at times, overcrowded 72, with its terminus at Branch Brook Park.

The 90 is a mess on it's own.

The 96 is a  ghost route, to me that is. I would have to ride those routes again to have a general idea.

He's swapping out the #72 to Nwk-Penn for the #74 to Nwk-Penn.... There's aspects of his plan I don't wholly concur with, but the "not every route needs to serve Penn" critique would apply if he had both the #72 & #74 serving Nwk-Penn..... I don't necessarily mind bringing more of Paterson (which the #74 covers more of than the #72) to Downtown Newark, but running the #92 over the Bloomfield-Passaic portion of the #72, nah.... I'd leave the #92 alone.

The #90 is solid... gets a nice little chunk of passengers, timely enough from my experiences... This is another route I'd leave alone.

Lol about the #96... I have to agree; I seldom ever see this thing.... I'm not sure what can help this route, but I don't see that being it.... Unlike the 1-zoned routes like the #5, 6, and #87, the #96's patronage is less than stellar.... Both the #90 & the #92 sees way more riders (than the #96)...

14 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

So here is an idea for some Newark-area restructuring:

#74 rerouted south of Passaic Bus Terminal to operate via Passaic Avenue-Van Houten Avenue-Route 21, and then follows the #76X route through Downtown Newark to reach Newark Broad Street & Newark Penn Station.

#92 rerouted north of Bloomfield Center to take over the #72 route to Paterson (this serves two purposes: It allows riders from the Paterson-Bloomfield portion of the #72 to access the Morris & Essex Line, with all of the alternative crosstown routes that get you into Downtown Newark, there's no reason why someone would backtrack on the #92 from South Orange or Orange over to Forest Hill to catch the light rail).

#96 extended up North 6th Street, Franklin Avenue, Belleville Avenue, and Broad Street to Bloomfield Center (covers the Belleville Avenue portion of the #92 and also provides access to Clara Maas Medical Center from the South and Central Wards).

#90 extended to Passaic via the present-day #74 route.

Still trying to figure out if there's a way to salvage the #74U. Maybe restructure it with the #13C (from Delawanna Avenue, make a left onto Main Avenue, a right onto Allwood Road, and then follow the #13 route to the end). 

If the idea is to repurpose the #74, that's pretty much what I would do with the 74U's respective stint - except I wouldn't have the #13C running nonstop from Main/Allwood, just to run to that one stop (the current terminal) at Industrial way... I would dead it right there at Main/Allwood..... If the idea is to bring those people that work in the general vicinity of Industrial way to the Delawanna station, then I would have #13C's running the #13N route from the terminal to Kingsland/Bloomfield, continue on Kingsland to Passaic, then up to Delawanna av, to do the #74U in the Delawanna section of Clifton, to continue down from Kingsland/Washington towards Irvington.....

Having the #96 run up North 6th ↔ Franklin to cover the #92 b/w Branch Brook & Bloomfield Center (compared to the current #92) won't make any real difference.... I see it as a net negative.... Those folks would still tank out at Bloomfield av... Folks coming over from the Oranges are more prone to ride out to Branch Brook.... I would just have the #72 doing the #94 to Irvington - basically splitting the #94 at Irvington....

Edited by B35 via Church
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@B35 via Church Yeah, the goal would be to connect the people at the shopping centers and industrial area to the Delawanna station, so your idea to to take Kingsland to Passaic would make sense (also, I'm not sure why the current #13 doesn't have a stop by Trader Joe's. Near the railroad crossing and traffic circle I could sort of understand not having the stop).

Maybe it would be better to have the #13N cover Union and the #13C cover Broadway (so that way there's no crossing over along Centre Street, and passengers don't have the confusion of dealing with Newark-bound buses on opposite sides of the street). Also, I'd have the Union Avenue bus rejoin the main #13 route on Broadway at Belleville Avenue, and leave Mount Prospect Avenue for the #27 and #99 (and the #74 if you were to extend it over the #27R route to Newark Broad Street).

Also, if the #74 were extended to Newark Broad Street, I think those trips that were formerly #27R trips should be diverted to Newark Penn. I know the #39 & #70 provide access from that general part of Newark directly to Newark Penn, but I still think there is a bit of a gap, especially since you have I-78 in the way.

For the #72 extension south of Bloomfield, how would you handle scheduling on that portion? The #94 is much more frequent, so it almost seems like you could use the #72 to replace the short-turns to Haines Avenue (just short of Vauxhall Road), and still leave both #94 branches running up to Bloomfield. (The reason I was leaning towards the #92 is because the frequency was similar, but I agree there would be more demand for service to Irvington vs. Orange/South Orange).

 

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church Yeah, the goal would be to connect the people at the shopping centers and industrial area to the Delawanna station, so your idea to to take Kingsland to Passaic would make sense (also, I'm not sure why the current #13 doesn't have a stop by Trader Joe's. Near the railroad crossing and traffic circle I could sort of understand not having the stop).

Maybe it would be better to have the #13N cover Union and the #13C cover Broadway (so that way there's no crossing over along Centre Street, and passengers don't have the confusion of dealing with Newark-bound buses on opposite sides of the street). Also, I'd have the Union Avenue bus rejoin the main #13 route on Broadway at Belleville Avenue, and leave Mount Prospect Avenue for the #27 and #99 (and the #74 if you were to extend it over the #27R route to Newark Broad Street).

Also, if the #74 were extended to Newark Broad Street, I think those trips that were formerly #27R trips should be diverted to Newark Penn. I know the #39 & #70 provide access from that general part of Newark directly to Newark Penn, but I still think there is a bit of a gap, especially since you have I-78 in the way.

For the #72 extension south of Bloomfield, how would you handle scheduling on that portion? The #94 is much more frequent, so it almost seems like you could use the #72 to replace the short-turns to Haines Avenue (just short of Vauxhall Road), and still leave both #94 branches running up to Bloomfield. (The reason I was leaning towards the #92 is because the frequency was similar, but I agree there would be more demand for service to Irvington vs. Orange/South Orange).

Specifically for the Trader Joe's, IDK (but I do concur with the sentiment btw).... The question I have regarding the #13 is, why are there so many #13B trips overall on the #13? I guess what I'm driving at is, while there should still be #13B's, why don't they have more #13B's run as #13C's & why they don't have more #13C's ending at/around Clifton Commons itself?

North of Newark-Broad, TBH, IDRC for how NJT handles the #27 overall.... You mention having #27R's ending at Newark-Penn... I would do away with the #27F & the #27N (which is why I'd have one of the #13 branches cover Mt. Prospect ↔ Union)... The #27 would be a route, unbranched, running between Irvington & Bloomfield Center via Branch Brook LRT.... Trips would be divided into either [short turning at Newark-Broad] or [running the full route to Bloomfield Ctr.]....

In the scenario of re-purposing the #74, I have the #13C instead of the #13N running up Union, to be the direct replacement of the #74U... As in, the #13C & the #74U serves Clifton Commons, while the #13N goes off to serve more of residential Nutley.... That was the thought process with that... The criss-crossing did "cross" my mind as I was rendering, but I just left it alone.... As far as having Union av buses rejoin Broadway in Belleville, where would you turn buses off at?

Good question.... With the #94 being split at Irvington, the southern split would be scheduled similar to the #819 - with the exception of that the #94's running to/from Linden would be 1/2 hourly during most of the day... The Stanley Terr. spur would be hourly all day.... As for the rest of the resultant route combination, running b/w Irvington (at the bus terminal btw, which the #94 currently doesn't serve) & Broadway bus terminal, most trips would run between Irvington & Bloomfield Ctr (which is where the crux of the demand is)..... As to not have too many trips short turning, the trips/service levels that would run to/from Paterson would get a bit of a boost; about a bus every 12-15 mins. or so, for a good chunk of the (week)day... If that would yield in an overserving of that part of the #74 (b/w Bloomfield & Paterson), then resources would end up being redistributed elsewhere throughout the system.....

 

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On 4/12/2020 at 10:34 AM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

In terms of fleet, it'll likely be uniform with the rest of the NJT rail fleet, so they'll be using the same equipment as on other lines. 

As far as I see it, I don't see much of anyone trying to get from Butler, Pompton Lakes, and that area north of route 208 and west of route 17, towards GWB. I don't even see them going to Patterson or Hackensack to warrant such a service for intrastate service. As far as Midtown service goes the buses west of route 17 (NJT 194, NJT 197 and ShortLine) would be about the same, if not faster than the train to get to Midtown. Perhaps originating from Patterson (towards Midtown) may work. Personally though, I feel that Midtown direct for the Main/Bergen County and Pascack Valley Lines should be looked into (and have some more express trips on each of those lines). 

Eh, you'd be surprised how many people in the areas you mentioned are trying to get to areas other than PABT.  Not everyone is trying to get to Midtown Manhattan.  Only reason they're not vocal about is because over the years most of them have given up on NJT and just drive- silent majority, essentially.  There's plenty of people trying to get from those places to inner Passaic County, Bergen County, Hudson County, ESSEX COUNTY, Lower Manhattan, and Upper Manhattan.  They just do it by car.

Wasn't always like that, though.  The 194 and 197 were not always the go-to buses.  There used to be fairly consistent 11 bus service from outer Passaic County down Route 23 and Bloomfield Avenue into Newark back in the '70s/'80s, until NJT split the outer part into the 75, and consistently butchered the routing and scheduling so as to make the route practically unrideable.  Much of nobody rode the route anymore in the '90s and '00s, which is why the 75 ultimately got cut around 2013.

On a whole other level, that area used to have commuter rail service as well- the Susquehanna Line, back in the '50s/'60s.  Still used for freight service, and there's been talk about reactivating it for passenger service for years now.  Of course, if NJT was halfway competent, they would have done that by now (the opportunity for them to do so has existed since the early '80s).

Edited by R10 2952
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