NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Eh, you'd be surprised how many people in the areas you mentioned are trying to get to areas other than PABT.  Not everyone is trying to get to Midtown Manhattan.  Only reason they're not vocal about is because over the years most of them have given up on NJT and just drive- silent majority, essentially.  There's plenty of people trying to get from those places to inner Passaic County, Bergen County, Hudson County, ESSEX COUNTY, Lower Manhattan, and Upper Manhattan.  They just do it by car.

Wasn't always like that, though.  The 194 and 197 were not always the go-to buses.  There used to be fairly consistent 11 bus service from outer Passaic County down Route 23 and Bloomfield Avenue into Newark back in the '70s/'80s, until NJT split the outer part into the 75, and consistently butchered the routing and scheduling so as to make the route practically unrideable.  Much of nobody rode the route anymore in the '90s and '00s, which is why the 75 ultimately got cut around 2013.

On a whole other level, that area used to have commuter rail service as well- the Susquehanna Line, back in the '50s/'60s.  Still used for freight service, and there's been talk about reactivating it for passenger service for years now.  Of course, if NJT was halfway competent, they would have done that by now (the opportunity for them to do so has existed since the early '80s).

...is why a lot of NJ patrons have a certain disdain for NJ transit.

I'm not just talking about the anti-transit people that hate the very notion of public transportation, but the ones that would patronize NJT if its intrastate network was as comprehensive & structured like the interstate bus network is, too.... Silent majority is right & I personally know a couple of people in that very category....

[DaTransitMan4608]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Specifically for the Trader Joe's, IDK (but I do concur with the sentiment btw).... The question I have regarding the #13 is, why are there so many #13B trips overall on the #13? I guess what I'm driving at is, while there should still be #13B's, why don't they have more #13B's run as #13C's & why they don't have more #13C's ending at/around Clifton Commons itself?

North of Newark-Broad, TBH, IDRC for how NJT handles the #27 overall.... You mention having #27R's ending at Newark-Penn... I would do away with the #27F & the #27N (which is why I'd have one of the #13 branches cover Mt. Prospect ↔ Union)... The #27 would be a route, unbranched, running between Irvington & Bloomfield Center via Branch Brook LRT.... Trips would be divided into either [short turning at Newark-Broad] or [running the full route to Bloomfield Ctr.]....

1. Ridership past the garage (toward Clifton) isn't that heavy. The 13 carries the heaviest between Belleville and Newark. Pre-covid, it used to be one of the buses that carried the schoolkids between the residential areas and downtown to the private school (can't remember where exactly it is, I just know that when I've taken it in the afternoon around 2-3 I've been on 13Ns where I've seen ridership begin to drop off the closer to the bus garage it got, namely after the bus crosses the Newark/Belleville border at Washington Ave & Mill St. I can't necessarily speak on the 13C as that's the only branch I haven't been on yet. 

2. I agree with this. You could even rebrand the current 13M to be the 13M North Newark Verona Ave via Mt. Prospect Ave. as opposed to it just running up Broadway to Verona Ave and looping around to terminate at Mill St. Usually the 27F (the branch that serves Mt. Prospect all the way to Forest Hill) tends to be extremely crowded (well....used to be), so running some of the 13s up that way would help alleviate some of that crowding on the 27s going to Bloomfield or Delawanna. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by DaTransitMan4608

[checkmatechamp13]

On 10/12/2020 at 2:52 PM, B35 via Church said:

Specifically for the Trader Joe's, IDK (but I do concur with the sentiment btw).... The question I have regarding the #13 is, why are there so many #13B trips overall on the #13? I guess what I'm driving at is, while there should still be #13B's, why don't they have more #13B's run as #13C's & why they don't have more #13C's ending at/around Clifton Commons itself?

I guess they figure there isn't too much ridership heading to the mall, and the bus depot is a convenient short-turn point.

On 10/12/2020 at 2:52 PM, B35 via Church said:

North of Newark-Broad, TBH, IDRC for how NJT handles the #27 overall.... You mention having #27R's ending at Newark-Penn... I would do away with the #27F & the #27N (which is why I'd have one of the #13 branches cover Mt. Prospect ↔ Union)... The #27 would be a route, unbranched, running between Irvington & Bloomfield Center via Branch Brook LRT.... Trips would be divided into either [short turning at Newark-Broad] or [running the full route to Bloomfield Ctr.]....

I have an idea: How about if the #99 gets extended to Bloomfield in place of the #27B? That way you don't have this super-busy/frequent route south of I-280 with sporadic buses extended to Bloomfield. 

Either that, or maybe branch the #92 (How busy are the intermediate stops between Bloomfield & Branch Brook Park)? That probably wouldn't work as well, because it wouldn't connect both sides of the park.

On 10/12/2020 at 2:52 PM, B35 via Church said:

In the scenario of re-purposing the #74, I have the #13C instead of the #13N running up Union, to be the direct replacement of the #74U... As in, the #13C & the #74U serves Clifton Commons, while the #13N goes off to serve more of residential Nutley.... That was the thought process with that... The criss-crossing did "cross" my mind as I was rendering, but I just left it alone.... As far as having Union av buses rejoin Broadway in Belleville, where would you turn buses off at?

The way I see it, Broadway is the busier corridor, and it makes sense to have those buses run up to Clifton Commons, and let the Union Avenue buses be the ones focusing on the residential areas (Of course, you could argue the opposite, that your way has a better balance/mix of residential vs. commercial areas). 

In any case, I didn't realize you would cut the #27F entirely (well, cut those buses to Newark Broad), so my plan would've been to have them run across Belleville Avenue to Broadway. But since that's your plan, then yeah I agree with having them run up Mount Prospect.

But yeah, I always wondered what those letters meant, until I looked at the schedule lol (F = Forest Hills, R = Rail Station, B = Bloomfield, N = Nutley/Clifton)

On 10/12/2020 at 2:52 PM, B35 via Church said:

Good question.... With the #94 being split at Irvington, the southern split would be scheduled similar to the #819 - with the exception of that the #94's running to/from Linden would be 1/2 hourly during most of the day... The Stanley Terr. spur would be hourly all day.... As for the rest of the resultant route combination, running b/w Irvington (at the bus terminal btw, which the #94 currently doesn't serve) & Broadway bus terminal, most trips would run between Irvington & Bloomfield Ctr (which is where the crux of the demand is)..... As to not have too many trips short turning, the trips/service levels that would run to/from Paterson would get a bit of a boost; about a bus every 12-15 mins. or so, for a good chunk of the (week)day... If that would yield in an overserving of that part of the #72 (b/w Bloomfield & Paterson), then resources would end up being redistributed elsewhere throughout the system.....

I'm still iffy about those frequencies for the southern half of the route. The way I see it, if they weren't needed, the obvious short-turn point is to swing them into Irvington Terminal (like we're discussing doing with the #72) rather than traveling a fairly substantial distance to Morris Avenue/Vauxhall Road. All things considered, we're still talking around a 50% reduction in service for that portion of the route.

[B35 via Church]

On 10/12/2020 at 8:50 PM, DaTransitMan4608 said:

1. Ridership past the garage (toward Clifton) isn't that heavy. The 13 carries the heaviest between Belleville and Newark. Pre-covid, it used to be one of the buses that carried the schoolkids between the residential areas and downtown to the private school (can't remember where exactly it is, I just know that when I've taken it in the afternoon around 2-3 I've been on 13Ns where I've seen ridership begin to drop off the closer to the bus garage it got, namely after the bus crosses the Newark/Belleville border at Washington Ave & Mill St. I can't necessarily speak on the 13C as that's the only branch I haven't been on yet. 

2. I agree with this. You could even rebrand the current 13M to be the 13M North Newark Verona Ave via Mt. Prospect Ave. as opposed to it just running up Broadway to Verona Ave and looping around to terminate at Mill St. Usually the 27F (the branch that serves Mt. Prospect all the way to Forest Hill) tends to be extremely crowded (well....used to be), so running some of the 13s up that way would help alleviate some of that crowding on the 27s going to Bloomfield or Delawanna. 

20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I guess they figure there isn't too much ridership heading to the mall, and the bus depot is a convenient short-turn point.

I get that much, but the sheer amount of short turns still seem excessive to me, IDK... Almost like they shouldn't even bother running #13's past the depot at all (especially with it being an articulated route)... I remember a good while back (about 3 or 4 yrs or so ago) I wanted to fan the #13C or #13N up to the last stop, and I stood there for a little over an hour looking stupid, watching everybody get on every other dam bus (I hate that feeling btw... it's a very empty feeling), waiting for a #13 that wasn't a short turn to the garage...

The only trip #13 I haven't taken, are those #13M's.... I've probably taken an equal amt. of #13C's & #13N's.

21 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I have an idea: How about if the #99 gets extended to Bloomfield in place of the #27B? That way you don't have this super-busy/frequent route south of I-280 with sporadic buses extended to Bloomfield. 

Either that, or maybe branch the #92 (How busy are the intermediate stops between Bloomfield & Branch Brook Park)? That probably wouldn't work as well, because it wouldn't connect both sides of the park.

The way I see it, Broadway is the busier corridor, and it makes sense to have those buses run up to Clifton Commons, and let the Union Avenue buses be the ones focusing on the residential areas (Of course, you could argue the opposite, that your way has a better balance/mix of residential vs. commercial areas). 

In any case, I didn't realize you would cut the #27F entirely (well, cut those buses to Newark Broad), so my plan would've been to have them run across Belleville Avenue to Broadway. But since that's your plan, then yeah I agree with having them run up Mount Prospect.

But yeah, I always wondered what those letters meant, until I looked at the schedule lol (F = Forest Hills, R = Rail Station, B = Bloomfield, N = Nutley/Clifton)

I'm still iffy about those frequencies for the southern half of the route. The way I see it, if they weren't needed, the obvious short-turn point is to swing them into Irvington Terminal (like we're discussing doing with the #72) rather than traveling a fairly substantial distance to Morris Avenue/Vauxhall Road. All things considered, we're still talking around a 50% reduction in service for that portion of the route.

- To have the #27 do what on the northern end?

- I wouldn't do either (run #99's to Bloomfield Ctr. or branch the #92), but a gun-to-my-head decision would actually have me favoring the latter over the former.... I can't speak to the schoolkid usage on it up around there, but outside of that, the Belleville av. portion of the #92 carries light, compared to the rest of the route....

- In most cases, you can easily figure out the letter variants... Speaking of which, it'd be great if someone were to compile a list of all the NJT routes that have letter variants (specifically, outside of the ones that only use the letter 'x' - which of course is universally known for some express trip/variant)...

- I'm not sure I fully get the iffiness.... Uneasy about the southern half of the split #94 (as in, the frequencies of anything running south of Irvington), or the frequencies of the southern half of the (suggested) #72 that would take over the #94 b/w Bloomfield Ctr. & Irvington? If you have the #72 in this scenario running to Irvington, you wouldn't need a crapton of service running to Linden or Stanley Terr on the said southern split of the #94 (if that's what you're referring to).... I'm inclined to believe those trips have the frequencies that they do (on the real #94) because they run north of Irvington....

[checkmatechamp13]

@B35 via Church All #27 trips would end at Newark Broad (either that, or split between Newark Broad & Newark Penn). I get the feeling that if you were to continue to have the #27 run to Bloomfield (while having the #74 replace the #27R and the #13 replace the #27F), you would end up with that exact scenario you described for the #13, where people traveling the full distance are waiting and waiting while a bunch of short-turns pass them.

The iffiness is for the frequency of the southern portion of the split (Specifically, the Springfield Blvd - Morris Avenue portion).

Right now, the branches of the #94 kind of run at the frequencies you're describing (30 minutes to Linden, and for Union, the scheduling is more erratic but it looks like they're shooting for 30 minutes peak, 60 minutes off-peak). But in addition to those main branches, there's extra buses running between Springfield Blvd & Morris Avenue (and it's a sizable amount, not just a few short-turns here and there). So in other words, would you keep those extra buses that serve southern Irvington/northern Union? (Obviously not every last one, but generally speaking would you toss in a sizable amount of short-turns in that area?)

[B35 via Church]

9 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

@B35 via Church All #27 trips would end at Newark Broad (either that, or split between Newark Broad & Newark Penn). I get the feeling that if you were to continue to have the #27 run to Bloomfield (while having the #74 replace the #27R and the #13 replace the #27F), you would end up with that exact scenario you described for the #13, where people traveling the full distance are waiting and waiting while a bunch of short-turns pass them.

The iffiness is for the frequency of the southern portion of the split (Specifically, the Springfield Blvd - Morris Avenue portion).

Right now, the branches of the #94 kind of run at the frequencies you're describing (30 minutes to Linden, and for Union, the scheduling is more erratic but it looks like they're shooting for 30 minutes peak, 60 minutes off-peak). But in addition to those main branches, there's extra buses running between Springfield Blvd & Morris Avenue (and it's a sizable amount, not just a few short-turns here and there). So in other words, would you keep those extra buses that serve southern Irvington/northern Union? (Obviously not every last one, but generally speaking would you toss in a sizable amount of short-turns in that area?)

- I would have more #27B's (well, it would just be the #27, no suffix) running to Bloomfield Center (via Branch Brook) than NJT has current #13 service running north of the garage.... To be clear(er), when I said "trips would be divided", I wasn't necessarily talking about divided (i.e. equal) frequency.... It was just to convey that trips overall/in general would either terminate at Nwk-Broad or Bloomfield Center..... Service on the #27 in/out of Bloomfield Ctr. throughout the day is erratic (which is something else I'd change), because of the #11 & the #28 holding down Bloomfield av.....

If we're talking about having all #27 trips ending at Nwk-Broad, at that point, the #27 wouldn't be much more than a #13B/C/M that serves Hawthorne, instead of (more of) Clinton.....

- Alright, I get what you're saying now; you're talking about the #94U (they should reference those trips as being U's on the schedule btw).... This is in opposition with my sentiment on #13 service past Big Tree; I think there are way too many #94's that run past Springfield.... I'm looking at the schedule now & holy shit, that is an insane amount of service to me.... I know there's a sizable amt. of people that wait for buses over there on New/Springfield, but SB specifically, they gravitate more towards the #26 than the #94 (I think the #26 is underserved, but that's neither here nor there).... I didn't know they ran all that #94 service down there... Okay, so maybe service every 15 mins. tops (as far down as Morris) - but to me, it still seems like it's a bit much..... Give some of that service to the #26 for all I care.....

[checkmatechamp13]

BTW, a few interesting studies I happened to come across:

https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2015Bayshore_Transit_StudyReport.pdf (Bus service in areas along the electrified portion of the North Jersey Coast Line)

https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2014MiddlesexCoTransitStudy.pdf (NW Middlesex County Transit Study)

http://www.middlesexcountynj.gov/Government/Departments/IM/Documents/Planning - Transportation/Route_9_Corridor_Study_NoLargeMaps.pdf (Beginning on page 123 of 166, you'll see some suggestions for transit service)

http://www.middlesexcountynj.gov/Government/Departments/IM/Documents/Planning - Transportation/CR 529/Feedback Summary March 7 2016.pdf (A quick summary of a public meeting for Middlesex County transit)

[checkmatechamp13]

Also found this one: https://www.co.monmouth.nj.us/Documents/24/BRT Opportunities Final Report_ 2015.pdf (Monmouth County BRT study) 

[checkmatechamp13]

A couple of studies of transit in Southern NJ:

https://www.sjtpo.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Millville_TransportationImprovementStudy_May2013.pdf (Pages 27-30 have a brief description of the routes, nothing much)

https://www.dvrpc.org/reports/08069.pdf (This goes more in depth and has a few interesting proposals. The ones that really stand out to me are those involving a link over the Delaware River...as a Staten Island resident I definitely sympathize with those who have to make such a roundabout transit commute when a direct bridge/roadway link exists)

[BreeddekalbL]

Im still for splitting the 113 s and N for the purpose of hourly service on both branches the N would become the 110 

 

Also for the 113 and 114 express variants 

 

They should add 1 more trip in each direction 

 

For example on the 113 the last express going into ny leaves at 820 and the 114 leaves Bridgewater at 754

 

They need one that leaves in the 9 am hour 

 

And going back to NJ the last expresses leave at 9 pm hour 

 

113 at 905 and 114 at 9 pm 

 

Need an express at 10 pm 

 

 

[BreeddekalbL]

I think they should split off the Stanley terrace branch for the 94 and make it it's own route known as the 93 

My rational is that in 7 am hour is that there is 5 buses going to union ctr/linden  vs 2 going to Stanley terrace should concentrate the resources there on the uc to linden buses  to make Stanley terrace  it's own route 

[BreeddekalbL]

To reflect Geographical Accuracy 

Random thought Howell belongs in the Southern Division 

Swap the morris garage into the Northern Division 

Maybe Swap the Medowlands and Greenville into the Central Division 

 

My New Northern Division 

Morris Wayne Patterson Oradell and Fairview 

 

My New Central Division 

Meadowlands Greenville Bigtree Hilton Ironbound Orange 

 

My New South Division 

Egg Harbor Howell Newton And Washington

[BreeddekalbL]

I think the 94 should be routed through the irvington terminal to boost tranfer options since it's nearest approach is 1 block away

Edited January 5, 2022 by BreeddekalbL

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I think the 94 should be routed through the irvington terminal to boost tranfer options since it's nearest approach is 1 block away

Under the Newark Bus redesign plan, it gets split into two routes (94 for Irvington - Bloomfield, and 54 for Irvington - Linden and Irvington - Cranford). The Cranford branch will operate via U.S.22.

[BreeddekalbL]

53 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Under the Newark Bus redesign plan, it gets split into two routes (94 for Irvington - Bloomfield, and 54 for Irvington - Linden and Irvington - Cranford). The Cranford branch will operate via U.S.22.

yeah your link isn't working

[Lawrence St]

I'm curious, why was the #307 and #309 discontinued? And it can't be for low ridership, because I remember that Freehold bus being crowded with Six Flags workers.

[BreeddekalbL]

Random thought regarding the 26KU and 52KU

Would it be feasible for those buses to deviate to stop at the south parking lot on north Ave by Vaughn hall to give students an on campus bus stop? 

@go25 what do you say

Edited February 16, 2022 by BreeddekalbL

[go25]

1 hour ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Random thought regarding the 26KU and 52KU

Would it be feasible for those buses to deviate to stop at the south parking lot on north Ave by Vaughn hall to give students an on campus bus stop? 

@go25 what do you say

Honestly, meh. Morris Ave is the more popular choice.

[BreeddekalbL]

2 hours ago, go25 said:

Honestly, meh. Morris Ave is the more popular choice.

I take it's one of those yeah it can be done but there will be a consequence as a result of it, I take the 52 and 26 are one of those routes that you got to keep em straight an arrow to keep em on time?

Edited February 16, 2022 by BreeddekalbL

[go25]

22 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

I take it's one of those yeah it can be done but there will be a consequence as a result of it, I take the 52 and 26 are one of those routes that you got to keep em straight an arrow to keep em on time?

It's one of those if it ain't broke, why mess it up

[B35 via Church]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:47 PM, BreeddekalbL said:

Random thought regarding the 26KU and 52KU

Would it be feasible for those buses to deviate to stop at the south parking lot on north Ave by Vaughn hall to give students an on campus bus stop?

That "KU" is not part of the actual route number; it's not a suffix... Anyway, it's not about such a change being feasible, it's about it being warranted - Which it definitely isn't.

[BreeddekalbL]

19 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

That "KU" is not part of the actual route number; it's not a suffix... Anyway, it's not about such a change being feasible, it's about it being warranted - Which it definitely isn't.

yeah i get the point i guess i figured it would be worth researching cause i figured students would like to have a bus service on campus like UC College and Union tech and i guess i was spoiled with having local bus service at my college too 

[Lawrence St]

New Routes:

77: Orange to American Dream Mall via Newark-Penn Station.

77T: Irvington to American Dream Mall via Newark-Penn Station.

Opens a bunch of new routing possibilities to access the mall from Newark, Orange and Irvington. Thoughts?

[BreeddekalbL]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

New Routes:

77: Orange to American Dream Mall via Newark-Penn Station.

77T: Irvington to American Dream Mall via Newark-Penn Station.

Opens a bunch of new routing possibilities to access the mall from Newark, Orange and Irvington. Thoughts?

Whats the left right on either route? 🤔

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Whats the left right on either route? 🤔

Huh?