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NJT proposals/ideas thread 2012-2013


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Well for both, no, because there would be more people seeking either Jersey Gardens, (the area around) Nwk-Penn, or EWR before seeking service to downtown elizabeth (rail station, inclusive)..... Even though one could go to NJ for 2.25, they would still have to xfer to another bus (NJT) or the rail itself to get to where they need to go)......

 

Service on a type of route like I brought up in that last post would have to be significantly more infrequent than your S98, for demand for both routes to exist.....

 

 

Maybe if they ran every hour each instead of every 30 minutes for one route, both routes would get decent ridership.

 

As far as the fare goes, if there are riders coming from other points within SI (e.g. Park Hill/Stapleton), or if they happen to come from Brooklyn, they get a transfer to the S98, whereas they wouldn't get one to the NJT route.

 

But then again, the only reason riders would come from another borough would be because of the mall, not really anything in NJ, and the S98 doesn't serve the mall. (Just thinking out loud here)

 

What if the S98 was the route that served the mall, and then went to EWR & NWK? Instead of making one via Richmond Terrace & Castleton Avenue. You lose the connections at Elizabeth, but you gain more at NWK & EWR. I just figured that Forest Avenue would likely benefit more from the extra service rather than Richmond Terrace & Castleton Avenue (on the weekends, the S48 actually gets more crowded than the S46 from what I've seen, whereas on weekdays they're about equal or with a slight edge to the S46).

 

I mean, the original reason I didn't want it to go to Jersey Gardens was because it would miss the extra connections (in Elizabeth), but since that's not an issue, I wouldn't have a problem with it going to EWR & NWK.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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The Woodbridge - Staten Island route would have to be NJT Operated. Just have the passengers dropped off at a station once inside SI. Honestly, too many legalities with MTA to have both companies operate one line. Think about the operation of the 139 with Academy. Academy tickets are not accepted on NJT buses. So, if MTA was to operate it, 100% that MTA will not accept NJT tickets and vice-versa if it was MetroCard on NJT Buses.

 

Thing is, NY residents would probably benefit more from that route (like the S89) so it could be (MTA) operated. Like I said before, a route that benefits both states' residents should be run by a PBL with equal funding from both sides IMO, but if one state benefits more that state should operate the route. If a lot of NJ residents end up using the route, then NJT should subsidize its operation or a PBL should take it over with equal funding from NJ and NY.

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Maybe if they ran every hour each instead of every 30 minutes for one route, both routes would get decent ridership.

 

As far as the fare goes, if there are riders coming from other points within SI (e.g. Park Hill/Stapleton), or if they happen to come from Brooklyn, they get a transfer to the S98, whereas they wouldn't get one to the NJT route.

 

But then again, the only reason riders would come from another borough would be because of the mall, not really anything in NJ, and the S98 doesn't serve the mall. (Just thinking out loud here)

 

What if the S98 was the route that served the mall, and then went to EWR & NWK? Instead of making one via Richmond Terrace & Castleton Avenue. You lose the connections at Elizabeth, but you gain more at NWK & EWR. I just figured that Forest Avenue would likely benefit more from the extra service rather than Richmond Terrace & Castleton Avenue (on the weekends, the S48 actually gets more crowded than the S46 from what I've seen, whereas on weekdays they're about equal or with a slight edge to the S46).

 

I mean, the original reason I didn't want it to go to Jersey Gardens was because it would miss the extra connections (in Elizabeth), but since that's not an issue, I wouldn't have a problem with it going to EWR & NWK.

 

Of course it was a spur of the moment suggestion for discussion purposes (b/c I don't think a NJ-SI route should stop dead in pt. richmond as was originally suggested by [i forget who at the moment]), but I thought about such a route running down forest.... came to the conclusion that forest (from what I find) is bogged w/ traffic a little more than castleton is..... the only reason I have it using richmond terr. is that so it could get to the ferry faster...... Good chance you're right in that such a routing wouldn't garner maximal possible usage......

 

I'll be honest... While (realistically) I would still keep the 98 in SI, I don't know as much about the S98 as much as I'd like to.....

How much quicker is the 98 over the 48 b/w the ferry & south av ?

 

Anyway, if the 98 went on to serve jersey gardens (JG), to EWR and NWK-penn, I think that's overkill to the nth degree; considering the duty (err, purpose...) of the 98..... For bettering coverage purposes b/w the two states (the topic at hand), at best, I would not have it going as far as Nwk-Penn..... I'll put it to you this way:

 

- I would side w/ the 98 going to JG over NJT elizabeth

- I would even side w/ the 98 going to JG & EWR over NJT elizabeth

- Can't quite conclude whether I'd side w/ the 98 going to elizabeth over EWR itself (or vice versa).... I think for some SI-ers, connecting em to the RR is just as important as connecting them to the airport.....

- I would dedicate another route for the purpose of connecting SI to Newark / Nwk-penn....

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S55 to old bridge park and ride for NJT 139.

No. Just have NJT do that because barely anyone in NJ has a metrocard.

Due to academy's contract ONLY ACADEMY can run buses from nyc to Pnc Due to agreement with NJT AND NJDOT!!

Dude calm yourself. You act as if I knew that already. I didn't.

In a sense S56 will be a 440 express. This links new brunswick with SI and mercer county.

New Brunswick and Mercer County aren't even a part of 440/287. The only way that link would happen is if NJT built a Park and Ride for I-287 and the Northeast Corridor.

Edited by Transitkid4608
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Of course it was a spur of the moment suggestion for discussion purposes (b/c I don't think a NJ-SI route should stop dead in pt. richmond as was originally suggested by [i forget who at the moment]), but I thought about such a route running down forest.... came to the conclusion that forest (from what I find) is bogged w/ traffic a little more than castleton is..... the only reason I have it using richmond terr. is that so it could get to the ferry faster...... Good chance you're right in that such a routing wouldn't garner maximal possible usage......

 

I'll be honest... While (realistically) I would still keep the 98 in SI, I don't know as much about the S98 as much as I'd like to.....

How much quicker is the 98 over the 48 b/w the ferry & south av ?

 

Anyway, if the 98 went on to serve jersey gardens (JG), to EWR and NWK-penn, I think that's overkill to the nth degree; considering the duty (err, purpose...) of the 98..... For bettering coverage purposes b/w the two states (the topic at hand), at best, I would not have it going as far as Nwk-Penn..... I'll put it to you this way:

 

- I would side w/ the 98 going to JG over NJT elizabeth

- I would even side w/ the 98 going to JG & EWR over NJT elizabeth

- Can't quite conclude whether I'd side w/ the 98 going to elizabeth over EWR itself (or vice versa).... I think for some SI-ers, connecting em to the RR is just as important as connecting them to the airport.....

- I would dedicate another route for the purpose of connecting SI to Newark / Nwk-penn....

 

 

Yeah, same here. I think people think that because you have all those buses terminating there, that it's a popular destination, when it's not. It's more of a matter of convenience if you ask me, since kind of a desolate area over by Richmond Terrace. On any of the 4 routes, the biggest stop as far as passenger loads would be Harrison Avenue (1/2 block north of Castleton), but even then, it's just that they can't think of any better place to send those routes.

 

Yeah, I've definitely noticed that Forest has worse traffic. I can't even really recall the last time I was caught in an actual traffic jam along Castleton (most delays seem to be due to passenger loads). Part of it might have something to do with the shopping plaza along Forest, whereas along Castleton, the businesses seem a little more walking-oriented. (And I still remember your comment in that "App that Would Help Users Avoid High-Crime Areas Proves Controversial" thread about the extra traffic in the "good" areas, so you never know...... ;) )

 

As far as the S98 vs. S48, there are times I felt like ripping my hair out with that S48 during rush hour. Just the fact that you keep on pulling into the stops and missing all the lights can be annoying, never mind the traffic. I even remember a few times when the following S98 (that left St. George 15 minutes later) passed us. But on a typical day, I'd say it's around a 7-10 minute savings to South Avenue (though of course, it feels like more). Traffic can be weird, and there are times when it's fine, and other times when the area between say, Clove Road & Jewett Avenue can get backed up (basically, the Westerleigh area). Eastbound, there can be some traffic jams stretching from say, Van Pelt Avenue to Willowbrook Road (but I guess if the route took Forest to Morningstar, it would have to serve that stretch anyway. I can't see it going up the S46 route in that area.)

 

And yeah, I see what you're saying with the priority of the different NJ areas the route should serve.

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No. Just have NJT do that because barely anyone in NJ has a metrocard.

Dude calm yourself. You act as if I knew that already. I didn't.

 

New Brunswick and Mercer County aren't even a part of 440/287. The only way that link would happen is if NJT built a Park and Ride for I-287 and the Northeast Corridor.

 

sorry man for academy comment. Ohh P&R one exists its called metropark NJT station transfer to NEC for those links done.
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whoever said about Woodbridge Mall not being a cash cow is dead on. But Jersey Gardens is one (no taxes for the shop addicts lol), and i know there are some people from SI who go there that have told me they wished there was either a shuttle or a new line for that.

 

Just imagine the commute (for those who don't have a car to commute):

take the SI railway to the ferry, ferry to Manhattan, the 1 subway line to WTC, transfer there for the PATH to NWK, take NEC or NJCL to Elizabeth, then take Coach USA 24 to mall. That alone looks painful (for your wallet that is) and thats just one way.

 

Or instead of getting off at WTC, take the 1 subway line up to 42nd st to PABT and transfer there for the 111

 

where in SI should such a route go?
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Yeah, same here. I think people think that because you have all those buses terminating there, that it's a popular destination, when it's not. It's more of a matter of convenience if you ask me, since kind of a desolate area over by Richmond Terrace. On any of the 4 routes, the biggest stop as far as passenger loads would be Harrison Avenue (1/2 block north of Castleton), but even then, it's just that they can't think of any better place to send those routes.

 

Yeah, I've definitely noticed that Forest has worse traffic. I can't even really recall the last time I was caught in an actual traffic jam along Castleton (most delays seem to be due to passenger loads). Part of it might have something to do with the shopping plaza along Forest, whereas along Castleton, the businesses seem a little more walking-oriented. (And I still remember your comment in that "App that Would Help Users Avoid High-Crime Areas Proves Controversial" thread about the extra traffic in the "good" areas, so you never know...... ;) )

 

As far as the S98 vs. S48, there are times I felt like ripping my hair out with that S48 during rush hour. Just the fact that you keep on pulling into the stops and missing all the lights can be annoying, never mind the traffic. I even remember a few times when the following S98 (that left St. George 15 minutes later) passed us. But on a typical day, I'd say it's around a 7-10 minute savings to South Avenue (though of course, it feels like more). Traffic can be weird, and there are times when it's fine, and other times when the area between say, Clove Road & Jewett Avenue can get backed up (basically, the Westerleigh area). Eastbound, there can be some traffic jams stretching from say, Van Pelt Avenue to Willowbrook Road (but I guess if the route took Forest to Morningstar, it would have to serve that stretch anyway. I can't see it going up the S46 route in that area.)

 

And yeah, I see what you're saying with the priority of the different NJ areas the route should serve.

 

- There you go (about Elizabeth).... When I first started fanning through there after having looked at the doug & adrienne njt map, I thought downtown elizabeth was very similar to downtown newark - boy was I in for a rude awakening..... riding the NEC (or NJCL) around elizabeth, it's like OMG, this place is a dump......Doesn't have near as much to offer as other cities do AFAIC......

 

- lol... yup, the avoiding of motorists in high crime areas only leads to those motorists driving through quote-unquote safer areas..... Forest vs. Castleton would be a good example of that.....

 

- 7-10 min difference for the 98 vs the 48 b/w those 2 points.... Good to know.... Thanks.

Let's say we were to extend the 98 to NJ.... from the time the bus reaches the NJ side of the goethals bridge (being very fair here), in 7-10 mins:

 

- an elizabeth bound bus would be somewhere on broad st (but not quite at the RR station yet)

- a JG bus would still be on the turnpike; at best it would be @ the toll booth (to access JG blvd, etc.)

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Yeah, Elizabeth does have that industrial-type feeling. I think Perth Amboy is kind of similar in the general area around the train station and everything.

 

And for the S98, I just wanted to add that it can vary a little bit. Later in the evening (like maybe around 7:15 or so), if you're going along Forest Avenue west of Richmond, the gap between the S48 & S98 tends to be smaller (less than 5 minutes), but if you're traveling in the middle of rush hour (like around 6), then it becomes closer to 10 minutes.

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- There you go (about Elizabeth).... When I first started fanning through there after having looked at the doug & adrienne njt map, I thought downtown elizabeth was very similar to downtown newark - boy was I in for a rude awakening..... riding the NEC (or NJCL) around elizabeth, it's like OMG, this place is a dump......Doesn't have near as much to offer as other cities do AFAIC......

 

- lol... yup, the avoiding of motorists in high crime areas only leads to those motorists driving through quote-unquote safer areas..... Forest vs. Castleton would be a good example of that.....

 

- 7-10 min difference for the 98 vs the 48 b/w those 2 points.... Good to know.... Thanks.

Let's say we were to extend the 98 to NJ.... from the time the bus reaches the NJ side of the goethals bridge (being very fair here), in 7-10 mins:

 

- an elizabeth bound bus would be somewhere on broad st (but not quite at the RR station yet)

- a JG bus would still be on the turnpike; at best it would be @ the toll booth (to access JG blvd, etc.)

 

I do not see NJT allowing S98 into NJ you have a better chance of njt52,58&truncated 62 going to SI. I already spoken why I dont believe S98 should go to NJ. Cause it will piss NJT OFF I know I have a friend who works for NJT and a friend in MTA bus planning operations I know how they think.
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NJT continued 836 merged with 613 new route from Trenton to asbury park with 613 designation via rte 33 & 130 then 613 route to trenton. 613/603 quaker bridge to trenton gets 603 designation.

 

604 extends to hamilton marketplace via US130 shuttle routing and absorbs a part of 603's unique parts. 130 shuttle eliminated. 836 replaced by 613.

ocean:

Njt can kill oceanshit via these

 

OC9 south replaced by new 60 line. The 60 will come from EWR stopping at old bridge P&R then cheesequake then rte 36 (off-peak only)&jersey shore outlets for new 613 line. Then brick and monmouth service plaza(off-peak only) the line runs on 549 to toms river(off-peak) then via forked river to LBS(fulltime summer limited service off season) @ rush hour 60 bypasses all monmouth stops except cheesequake and old bridge. 60 skips rte 549 @ rush hour use academy for GSP stops and 549 service Academy becomes open-door in NJ southbound & northbound within NJ on GSP corridor.

 

OC5 replaced by academy at rush hour with 2 variants to keep travel time down. Off peak 137 eats parts of OC5 En rte to pleasantville bus terminal then AC airport for better links to 502,507&509 & 554 lines and an airport service for atlantic county. Additional 137 trips added at some time slots For better connections.

 

OC8 replced by rush hour loop shuttle called 840 timed with departures from toms river terminal.

OC7 eaten by 139X and some 549 137 trips.

 

OC1 Replaced by select 60 runs with 90 min or hourly headways. OC1A eaten by rte 70 line all the way as 406 variant these 406 runs are skipping east camden via rte 38/70 to philly these trips stay on 70 the whole time but may serve virtua medical in marlton these trips go to toms river via whiting and replace 1A.

Trips via medford lakes &chatsworth replace OC2 Partially then eat OC10 western part en rte to toms river terminal then OC mall(selectruns) CORE 406 service enhanced to 20 mins each branch is hourly(off-peak). This allows a local route to be made for marlton to camden.

 

OC3/3A replaced by NJT 834 via GSP stops at P&Rs gets off at wall to travel parts of 830 but goes to point pleasant eating 3A but at brick eats oc3 then via ocean dr to rte 9.

835 via GSP killsOC3 @ brick then eventually eats OC3A @ Ocean cty mall to lavalette via 549 spur. Toms river connection killed off by select 60 runs to lavalette or 63 LTD fulltime on rte 9 to toms river then lavalette.

 

309 Trenton to LBN express via I-195& sixflags and rte 571 & stafford center en rte to long beach timed with SEPTA trains and other 600 series buses there.

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I do not see NJT allowing S98 into NJ you have a better chance of njt52,58&truncated 62 going to SI. I already spoken why I dont believe S98 should go to NJ. Cause it will piss NJT OFF I know I have a friend who works for NJT and a friend in MTA bus planning operations I know how they think.

 

Why are you telling me this for ?

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If NJT has their way with the 40 according to the newark bus study then your better off extending NJT40 to SI then renumbering it NJT 104.

 

This is an issue between both states, not so much bus planning problem. If there were no boundaries, then it would easy to plan the route and make it. However, the S89 did have its problems at first, but since it's one stop in NJ, it won't really cause so much of a disturbance to both states. Now if a route from MTA or NJT goes into each others "territory" and makes more stops, both sides will argue since there fares are different from each other, NJ having a zone based fare and MTA having a base fare.

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This is an issue between both states, not so much bus planning problem. If there were no boundaries, then it would easy to plan the route and make it. However, the S89 did have its problems at first, but since it's one stop in NJ, it won't really cause so much of a disturbance to both states. Now if a route from MTA or NJT goes into each others "territory" and makes more stops, both sides will argue since there fares are different from each other, NJ having a zone based fare and MTA having a base fare.

 

That is why it's easier to let NJT make 40 or 62 go into SI with 40 at CSI and 62 alternating between rte 440 at victory and CSI. NO MTA bus originating from St george or brooklyn should be allowed into NJ period it allows cheapskates to screw NJT. Elizebeth to SI is best left to NJT due to NJ flexibility and lack of MTA routes NOT eminating from st george and brooklyn. Only S55/56/57/54 are potential candidates S57 is too far as well as S55/56 again let NJT get more NY revenue I will give more details later
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where in SI should such a route go?

 

 

when i first proposed the idea, i was thinkin about how the SI railway only goes north and south. there is no rail in the western part of the island and how the main station is St. Georges Ferry Terminal Station. i didnt pay mind about the travelers who live near the Goethals Bridge, which is much closer to JG

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I've been thinking about this, and I'm only going to propose things for buses going to New York, which I know more about

194: I don't like the fact that it only has one trip each way to Vernon on Winters, so I would do it this way

 

Service to New York

 

Vernon. 3:30 PM. 4:30 PM. 5:00 PM

Wayne. 4:40 PM. 5:40 PM. 6:10 PM

New York. 5:20 PM. 6:20 PM. 6:50 PM

 

Service to Vernon

 

New York 7:30 AM. 9:00 AM. 12:00 PM

Wayne. 8:00 AM. 9:30 AM. 12:30 PM

Vernon. 9:12 AM. 10:42 AM. 1:42 PM

 

Also, One more thing

198: Extend to Ringwood Park &Ride, via Pattersin Hamburg Turnpike. The 197 would bypass the Park &Ride When the 198 operates and operate via the Park and Ride all times from 5 AM to 11 AM and after 8 PM in both directions daily

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or eliminate west milford shuttle replace with 198 or extended select 197 trips.

 

The 197 I too long as it is. The 198 would be a more viable option. Plus my proposal would give 198 riders a faster way to Willowbrook and would reduce 197 travel time by 5-10 minutes.

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The 197 I too long as it is. The 198 would be a more viable option. Plus my proposal would give 198 riders a faster way to Willowbrook and would reduce 197 travel time by 5-10 minutes.

 

 

While that idea is great and I respect your opinions, 5 to 10 minutes doesn't do much right now with the major traffic snarls with 495 and 80/95 to the GWB clusterflucked with construction and traffic. If there wasn't so many severe issues with the roads, this idea would be fruitful. I never really took the 197 to the final stop, just to Willowbrook. When I move back to NJ, (and get back in NJT hopefully if there's room for me), I'll take a trip down there and see how many people really use that route from Warwick.

 

Another trip that I think would make some considerable cash is if NJT had a route from Port Authority to Palisades Center in West Nyack. That mall is HUGE. I think Wayne and Meadowlands can share this line, call it the 397 - West Nyack Palisades Center

 

Express: PABT - Route 80 - GSP - NY Thruway to Mall. No Route 17 unless GSP is closed.

 

Local: PABT - Union City 31th Street Stops - Route 17 to Garden State Plaza - GS Parkway - NY Thruway to Mall.

 

Local ever hour daily to help with 163 traffic of GSP passengers. Express on Weekends for shoppers.

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While that idea is great and I respect your opinions, 5 to 10 minutes doesn't do much right now with the major traffic snarls with 495 and 80/95 to the GWB clusterflucked with construction and traffic. If there wasn't so many severe issues with the roads, this idea would be fruitful. I never really took the 197 to the final stop, just to Willowbrook. When I move back to NJ, (and get back in NJT hopefully if there's room for me), I'll take a trip down there and see how many people really use that route from Warwick.

 

Another trip that I think would make some considerable cash is if NJT had a route from Port Authority to Palisades Center in West Nyack. That mall is HUGE. I think Wayne and Meadowlands can share this line, call it the 397 - West Nyack Palisades Center

 

Express: PABT - Route 80 - GSP - NY Thruway to Mall. No Route 17 unless GSP is closed.

 

Local: PABT - Union City 31th Street Stops - Route 17 to Garden State Plaza - GS Parkway - NY Thruway to Mall.

 

Local ever hour daily to help with 163 traffic of GSP passengers. Express on Weekends for shoppers.

 

Yeah I know traffic on the interstate can be brutal most of the time, especially with construction. On the case of the 197, the core ridership is mostly from Pompton Lakes to New York. From Pompton Lakes to Warwick the route has an acceptable load, during off peak hours. Peak hours it's good from Warwick to New York. I guess if traffic was better my 198 idea could flourish because on the several trips I took of the 198, ridership is good until Willowbrook, but dies down past there. So if it was extended to ringwoodthen it could get more riders than it currently would.

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The Atlantic City Rail Line as it stands right now has significant gaps in its service hours, especially during rush hours. I've never understood why that is. I think that filling in those gaps wouldn't hurt - last December, I went to attend an event at the Convention Center and planned to take the train from Absecon (where I booked my hotel room), but the lack of rush hour service made that option not attractive.

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Yeah I know traffic on the interstate can be brutal most of the time, especially with construction. On the case of the 197, the core ridership is mostly from Pompton Lakes to New York. From Pompton Lakes to Warwick the route has an acceptable load, during off peak hours. Peak hours it's good from Warwick to New York. I guess if traffic was better my 198 idea could flourish because on the several trips I took of the 198, ridership is good until Willowbrook, but dies down past there. So if it was extended to ringwoodthen it could get more riders than it currently would.

 

Do you even know what the west milford shuttle is? My proposal was to extend 197(SHORT TURNS) beyond pompton lakes via replacing that shuttle click here for a little education transoptions.org
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