When will the (MTA) start adding more weekend service to other lines?

[TheSubwayStation]

Service used to be more frequent, but I believe cuts were made.

 

even the admits that trains are becoming more and more delay prone and trips are taking longer

 

Additionally, these are two separate issues. The first one is easy to fix (increase service, as you said), but the second one is not so simple. I'll repeat myself: the MTA is under the assumption that the current service frequencies are adequate. Unlike the increases, which the MTA at least claims are because of signal upgrades, the MTA doesn't think that a line such as the should be more frequent. I explained that they have a specific way of calculating service frequency. You can agree or disagree with their methodology for how they calculate ridership, but that's what they rely on.

 

Everybody seems to have done a pretty good job here of explaining why the train might have been too crowded. Honestly, I don't think you're actually trying to learn the answer to your question (why the MTA doesn't add service). When people try to explain why the MTA didn't add service, you reply with "But the MTA needs to add service!" The only answer that you'll accept is, "Yes, there needs to be more service and it sucks that they didn't add it already." Basically, what this thread should be called is, "I think trains are too crowded. Don't you agree?"

[checkmatechamp13]

I see the point because not all stations have countdown clocks #1 and #2, like I said, some trains supposedly come every 10 minutes, yet they seem to really run every 20 in some instances, so timing certain lines IS a good thing since if you know that a train is running every 20 minutes you can consider backups rather than waiting there like a fool wasting time. Now a line like the or ... Of course I just walk to Grand Central and wait because the service is pretty frequent.

 

 

But if the train is coming every 20 minutes, instead of every 10, then you're right back where you started. Maybe you'll catch the train when it's supposed to come, or maybe you'll end up waiting 10-15 minutes, so realistically, what did you save?

 

But like I said, that's just me.

[B35 via Church]

Exactly my sentiments... subways aren't THAT infrequent during the day to where you need to rely on the schedule, even if they do happen to get delayed....

 

 

Basically, what this thread should be called is, "I think trains are too crowded. Don't you agree?"

 

Some coincidence.... a similar thought ran through my mind while that whole discussion about the was ongoing.....

[TheSubwayStation]

Actually MetroNorth is becoming more crowded all the time, yet still performing quite well.

 

Yes, but my point is that on a commuter railroad, you don't have people holding the doors open to stuff themselves in (at least I don't think ).

 

In other instances, perhaps different cars could be used

 

Is this really about the whole R46 door issue? I don't understand what you and B35 via Church are talking about. I used a stopwatch to calculate the time it takes for those doors to close, and it was no slower than the R160.

Quite frankly, I believe that the latter is the biggest issue, hence why I support stations being shut down to allow work to be done quicker and thoroughly the way it is done elsewhere. The piece meal idea that the uses is getting old. They've got to come up with something better.

 

I agree. I support expanding FASTRACK to other areas of the system, which I think the MTA is a bit slow to do. I do give them credit for starting the FASTRACK program. It is a step in the right direction, and the MTA is often quite stubborn...

[B35 via Church]

Is this really about the whole R46 door issue? I don't understand what you and B35 via Church are talking about.

 

I used a stopwatch to calculate the time it takes for those doors to close, and it was no slower than the R160.

 

Explain what you mean by "really about".....

 

Because it was never any intention of mine to make this big of a fuss about the door opening/closing thing......

[TheSubwayStation]

Explain what you mean by "really about".....

 

Because it was never any intention of mine to make this big of a fuss about the door opening/closing thing......

 

What I meant was, "Do you actually think that the R46's slow doors have made an impact on service?" I've explained why I don't think they do.

[B35 via Church]

What I meant was, "Do you actually think that the R46's slow doors have made an impact on service?" I've explained why I don't think they do.

 

...and I explained why I think it's a very small factor..... I don't think the impact is nil.....

 

Never tried to paint the picture that it's some grandiose problem... At least I didnt....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, but my point is that on a commuter railroad, you don't have people holding the doors open to stuff themselves in (at least I don't think ).

 

You have no idea how close we cut it getting to the Spuyten Duyvil station. I usually just decide when I wake up in the morning whether or not to use the express bus or MetroNorth going to work. Like today for example, I felt like messing around a bit before leaving and watching some cable, so I took MetroNorth, this way I could leave later, have a shorter walk and also avoid having to climb the stairs to get the express bus by the Henry Hudson Parkway in the heat. The Hudson Rail Link bus arrived late (but not as late as they sometimes come) and he got to the station with maybe 4 minutes to spare before the train was due. Mind you many folks don't have their ticket and there are only two vending machines there, so I got my ticket with maybe a minute to spare, so yes folks do cut it very close, even on the commuter trains.

 

Is this really about the whole R46 door issue? I don't understand what you and B35 via Church are talking about. I used a stopwatch to calculate the time it takes for those doors to close, and it was no slower than the R160.I agree. I support expanding FASTRACK to other areas of the system, which I think the MTA is a bit slow to do. I do give them credit for starting the FASTRACK program. It is a step in the right direction, and the MTA is often quite stubborn...

 

 

Everything about those R46 says SLOW... They also sway back and forth a lot, which I feel slows them down, but maybe its all about perception. The R68s do that too, but for some reason it seems like just moves slow. Maybe because the stations are close together?? I dunno...

[TheSubwayStation]

Never tried to paint the picture that it's some grandiose problem... At least I didnt....

 

I get it; it's just that I can prove to you that the R46 doors don't close slowly. As I said, maybe there's a delay with the button. Only a conductor can answer that.

Everything about those R46 says SLOW... They also sway back and forth a lot, which I feel slows them down, but maybe its all about perception. The R68s do that too, but for some reason it seems like just moves slow. Maybe because the stations are close together?? I dunno...

 

Yes, the is a slow line. The stops are close together as you said, and it has a lot of sharp curves that force the train to go slowly. Additionally, the (a faster local; I agree with you) doesn't share its tracks with other lines. Therefore, no merging delays where one train has to wait for the other. The , though, has to merge with the and lines. As for the R46s moving slower, it's only a matter of seconds compared to the R160s, AFAIK.

 

You have no idea how close we cut it getting to the Spuyten Duyvil station. I usually just decide when I wake up in the morning whether or not to use the express bus or MetroNorth going to work. Like today for example, I felt like messing around a bit before leaving and watching some cable, so I took MetroNorth, this way I could leave later, have a shorter walk and also avoid having to climb the stairs to get the express bus by the Henry Hudson Parkway in the heat. The Hudson Rail Link bus arrived late (but not as late as they sometimes come) and he got to the station with maybe 4 minutes to spare before the train was due. Mind you many folks don't have their ticket and there are only two vending machines there, so I got my ticket with maybe a minute to spare, so yes folks do cut it very close, even on the commuter trains.

 

But does that contribute to delays? That's what I want to know. I don't really care whether people cut it close or not; in MetroNorth you don't have trains stuffed 100% full, with more people trying to cram on. What I care about is station dwell times that are longer than scheduled. That causes delays, and I don't think that happens much on MetroNorth. Besides, if it's 30 minutes until the next train, the train behind you won't be effected by the "cutting it close" that you're talking about.

[B35 via Church]

I get it; it's just that I can prove to you that the R46 doors don't close slowly. As I said, maybe there's a delay with the button. Only a conductor can answer that.

 

Now it's down to semantics (who considers what slow & who doesn't), which I'm just not going to engage in b/c it's pointless......

You can't disprove an opinion......

 

Again, the c/r & the buttons thing I'm not speaking on.

[checkmatechamp13]

You have no idea how close we cut it getting to the Spuyten Duyvil station. I usually just decide when I wake up in the morning whether or not to use the express bus or MetroNorth going to work. Like today for example, I felt like messing around a bit before leaving and watching some cable, so I took MetroNorth, this way I could leave later, have a shorter walk and also avoid having to climb the stairs to get the express bus by the Henry Hudson Parkway in the heat. The Hudson Rail Link bus arrived late (but not as late as they sometimes come) and he got to the station with maybe 4 minutes to spare before the train was due. Mind you many folks don't have their ticket and there are only two vending machines there, so I got my ticket with maybe a minute to spare, so yes folks do cut it very close, even on the commuter trains.

 

 

It's probably less often than on the subway, though. People know that if they cut it close on the commuter rail, you could be stuck waiting there for 20, 30, or 60 minutes, whereas on the subway, very few people actually look at the schedule, so they come down and if the train is sitting there, they run in and catch it. Does it happen fairly often on the commuter rails? Yes, but not as often as the subway.

 

On a side note, it's that stress that eventually led to me taking the (4)/(5) to Cooper Union instead of the . Since they run more frequently, I didn't feel the pressure to run the way I did with the . I mean, it sucks when you're running down from the ferry and facing a whole bunch of people who just got off the train, and then it becomes a you-vs-them of them pushing to try and get the ferry and you pushing to get on the train. Meanwhile, with the (4)/(5), the platform is easier to access and you're only waiting 2-3 minutes instead of 8-10 if you miss the train.

 

But even then, the train didn't come at the same time, so there would be no point looking at a schedule. It would come anywhere from like 8:56 to 9:03, so there's no point.

[TheSubwayStation]

It's probably less often than on the subway, though. People know that if they cut it close on the commuter rail, you could be stuck waiting there for 20, 30, or 60 minutes, whereas on the subway, very few people actually look at the schedule, so they come down and if the train is sitting there, they run in and catch it. Does it happen fairly often on the commuter rails? Yes, but not as often as the subway.

 

Yes, that's probably right. My real point, though, was that MetroNorth isn't as crowded, so people can board/exit more smoothly (and thus fewer dwell time delays).

 

 

 

 

Now it's down to semantics (who considers what slow & who doesn't), which I'm just not going to engage in b/c it's pointless......

 

Okay. All I tried to say was, they both take 2 seconds to close.

[limitednyc]

the 7 exprese middays and saturdays could operate but do to constant track and singnal work it can't?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But does that contribute to delays? That's what I want to know. I don't really care whether people cut it close or not; in MetroNorth you don't have trains stuffed 100% full, with more people trying to cram on. What I care about is station dwell times that are longer than scheduled. That causes delays, and I don't think that happens much on MetroNorth. Besides, if it's 30 minutes until the next train, the train behind you won't be effected by the "cutting it close" that you're talking about.

 

 

Yeah but you can't really compare MetroNorth to the subway. And yes the trains are crowded and sometimes I have to stand, but folks are paying a premium for service that they expect to be ontime. The other difference is that MetroNorth is a commuter train so you're more likely yo have folks using it that are regulars as opposed to random tourists and such. I tend to see the same folks riding when I'm on MetroNorth. Meanwhile, there are a bunch of factors that come into play with the subway, but nevertheless many of them can be controlled. Here's a question though.. How old is MetroNorth compared to the subway??

[TheSubwayStation]

Yeah but you can't really compare MetroNorth to the subway.

 

I thought you were trying to compare MetroNorth to the subway when you talked about the good MetroNorth service in contrast to bad subway service:

 

Quite frankly the isn't bad, but it isn't what it used to be either. Service used to be more frequent, but I believe cuts were made. For what it's worth, no, suwbay service isn't good overall, especially when you consider that even the admits that trains are becoming more and more delay prone and trips are taking longer, so it isn't just my imagination or like I love complaining. When you consider how ridership is increasing, I'd say subway service isn't matching the demand and what I mean is demand by way of reliable, speedy service.

 

Now MetroNorth on the other hand. I can almost set my phone to when I leave from Spuyten Duyvil to my arrival at Grand Central. This morning we were 3 minutes late arriving because we had to wait for a place for the train to pull into, but usually it is right on time. Then again it is also $7.50 for a single Peak ticket, not including the $2.25 for the Hudson Rail Link shuttle, but I'm just wondering what we would have to pay to get truly good subway service...

 

My point is that you specifically can't compare them; MetroNorth has good service because the trains can't get backed up the same way.

 

BTW, I checked the old schedules and the train did not have service cuts.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I thought you were trying to compare MetroNorth to the subway when you talked about the good MetroNorth service in contrast to bad subway service:My point is that you specifically can't compare them; MetroNorth has good service because the trains can't get backed up the same way.

 

BTW, I checked the old schedules and the train did not have service cuts.

 

 

Actually both the and were cut back...

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Maybe that's why I feel like the feels more crowded... They say it's just the rush hour, but who knows... I wonder if they secretly cut trains like they pull buses...

[TheSubwayStation]

Yes, you're right. I didn't remember that. But two trains per hour is probably not going to affect your trip, IMO. The schedule still says 2.5 Minutes in rush hour, 4 minutes on midday, and 8 minutes on the weekends. Please, give me a logical explanation for why that service cut means that your ride will be noticably worse.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yes, you're right. I didn't remember that. But two trains per hour is probably not going to affect your trip, IMO. The schedule still says 2.5 Minutes in rush hour, 4 minutes on midday, and 8 minutes on the weekends. Please, give me a logical explanation for why that service cut means that your ride will be noticably worse.

 

 

It's simple... If they quietly pulled one or two trains during the morning and evening rush, there is nothing that says they don't pull any weekend trains... Who or what would stop them?? I never even thought about that until now because that is more common with buses, but who knows.

[Wallyhorse]

Everybody seems to have done a pretty good job here of explaining why the train might have been too crowded. Honestly, I don't think you're actually trying to learn the answer to your question (why the MTA doesn't add service). When people try to explain why the MTA didn't add service, you reply with "But the MTA needs to add service!" The only answer that you'll accept is, "Yes, there needs to be more service and it sucks that they didn't add it already." Basically, what this thread should be called is, "I think trains are too crowded. Don't you agree?"

 

They do need to add service on the on weekends based on what has been written here, but perhaps do it where such extra trains only run South Ferry-137th Street and are on an "as needed" basis. Some supplements on weekends between 137 and South Ferry probably make the most sense to handle what obviously is a sharp increase in ridership on the .

[Gotham Bus Co.]

My understanding was that even with the budget cuts that they would add service where it was needed.

 

 

They can't. Adding service would jeopardize the complaining industry.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's always nice to have trolls around...

[TheSubwayStation]

It's simple... If they quietly pulled one or two trains during the morning and evening rush, there is nothing that says they don't pull any weekend trains... Who or what would stop them?? I never even thought about that until now because that is more common with buses, but who knows.

 

So your point is that because they made this service cut, they've obviously made other service cuts too? I don't think so. Read the article:

Summer Service Slows Down On 1, 6 Subway Lines

By: NY1 News

 

The subway train may seem a little more crowded due to cutbacks quietly made by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

Without alerting riders or holding public hearings, the agency reduced the number of peak and off-peak trains on the 1 and 6 lines on July 1.

There are now 21 trains per hour during the morning rush on the 6 line, down from 23.

The 1 line now has 16 trains per hour during the morning rush, down from 18.

Off-peak, the MTA is running 13 trains per hour instead of 15 on the 6 line and between nine and 11 trains per hour on the 1 line, down from 10 to 12.

An MTA official said in statements that the “seasonal adjustments” are based on lowered ridership due to summer vacations, and that most riders will only have to wait an additional 30 seconds.

MTA officials say during average peak times on summer weekdays, ridership is down 12 to 19 percent on the 1 line and between 10 to 19 percent on the 6 line.

No other subway lines are affected, but some bus lines have similar summer reductions, according to the MTA.

According to the MTA, this was a SEASONAL service reduction; in other words, the service was PUT BACK when Summer ended. So, your whole "service was cut on the line" argument is invalid, IMO. There was a thread on this: http://www.nyctransi...ce/page__st__20

 

In the thread, people explained that these SEASONAL "service cuts" happen every year. I think it was a little misleading for NY1 to introduce the article as if there were real service cuts happening; of course people are going to get upset, and they don't realize the triviality of what happened. Seasonal ridership goes down; service levels go down.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So your point is that because they made this service cut, they've obviously made other service cuts too? I don't think so. Read the article:

 

According to the MTA, this was a SEASONAL service reduction; in other words, the service was PUT BACK when Summer ended. So, your whole "service was cut on the line" argument is invalid, IMO. There was a thread on this: http://www.nyctransi...ce/page__st__20

 

In the thread, people explained that these SEASONAL "service cuts" happen every year. I think it was a little misleading for NY1 to introduce the article as if there were real service cuts happening; of course people are going to get upset, and they don't realize the triviality of what happened. Seasonal ridership goes down; service levels go down.

 

 

Yes, there are seasonal cuts... Those happen all of the time... That's normal and makes sense.... However, there also underhanded "unofficial cuts" that the does. I can't substantiate whether or not it happens on the subway lines, but it certainly has happened on certain bus lines. It has been know for example, that if a driver called out sick on one bus line, that driver, instead of being replaced wasn't and therefore you would have no bus for that route for that scheduled time and for some scheduled buses, this was a routine if you may. If the does this with the subway, I doubt they're going to come out and say it, just like they didn't come out and mention what they do with buses. That's my point. It seems to me that you're a bit gullible because if the is strapped for cash, the first thing they're going to do is look to cut service, but it officially or unofficially and I don't see logically how if they'll cut buses out unofficially, they won't cut a train or two out here or there. Things happen. That's all I'm saying and anything is possible.

[TheSubwayStation]

Yes, there are seasonal cuts... Those happen all of the time... That's normal and makes sense.... However, there also underhanded "unofficial cuts" that the does. I can't substantiate whether or not it happens on the subway lines, but it certainly has happened on certain bus lines. It has been know for example, that if a driver called out sick on one bus line, that driver, instead of being replaced wasn't and therefore you would have no bus for that route for that scheduled time and for some scheduled buses, this was a routine if you may.

That isn't a service cut, even if it has the same effect. That won't effect you unless crews get sick. It's not good if they do that, but your original point was that "service was cut on the line". That didn't happen.

It seems to me that you're a bit gullible because if the is strapped for cash, the first thing they're going to do is look to cut service, but it officially or unofficially and I don't see logically how if they'll cut buses out unofficially, they won't cut a train or two out here or there. Things happen. That's all I'm saying and anything is possible.

 

Gullible for reading the schedule? Where else am I supposed to get my information from? Your point that "service was cut on the line" is still not true. Now you're trying to say, "Well, maybe there were cuts that we don't know about," which you'll never be able to prove to anyone.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That isn't a service cut, even if it has the same effect. That won't effect you unless crews get sick. It's not good if they do that, but your original point was that "service was cut on the line". That didn't happen.Gullible for reading the schedule? Where else am I supposed to get my information from? Your point that "service was cut on the line" is still not true. Now you're trying to say, "Well, maybe there were cuts that we don't know about," which you'll never be able to prove to anyone.

 

 

Well of course it won't be considered an official service cut. That was my point. I've been the victim of this action, so I know it happens and others I've spoken with have substantiated this like Brooklyn Bus. You go look at the schedule and no matter what time you go for said bus, said bus never comes or there is a bus that seems to come in between the time in which two buses are due. Not just a coincidence.

 

With the subway it is harder to do because if it's a line like the it may be more difficult to pull off with the crowds, but certainly not impossible. It's an unofficial cut because if you screw around with service long enough, you push folks to use another line if there is an alternative. This is true with buses AND subways and then if ridership dips you can say oh ridership went down, so now we can officially cut back on service to "adjust" to ridership patterns.