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NYCguy

The Top 10 Presidents In U.S. History

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I am not going to say "best presidents" but i comment on my 3 favorite presidents. the first is teddy roosevelt(breaking up the standard oil monoply and other business strong holds and of course "hero" of the 1898 Spanish-American War) The others being FDR and John Kennedy.

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I'm willing to give some of the "founding fathers" their due although they were hypocrites in many matters. If you listen closely to the video there is an underlying theme of individual and state's rights permeating the whole presentation which veers very close to propaganda. In my view there were two presidents who were infinitely more important to the USA. Abraham Lincoln, who fought the dissolution of the US into fiefdoms of state's rights which would have ended any talk of a USA today.My other nominee for greatest US president is FDR. It's my opinion that his actions upon taking office in 1933 prevented this country from sinking into a soviet-style quagmire like the USSR, or a fascist-style government on the order of Franco's Spain or Nazi Germany. If one looks back upon that 1930's era it's obvious that many nations chose either of those options. The European nations of that time were on the brink of anarchy with leftists and rifgtists fighting pitched battles on the streets. It's my opinion that the actions FDR took early in his presidency saved the country from falling into the type of chaos the Europeans did. In effect, he also saved the country as did Lincoln. Just my opinion. Carry on.

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I dont agree with all 10 choices in the video, I would definatelly, include Lincoln and JFK in there. Teddy Roosevelt couldve been in there except for the 1906 Imperial cruise disaster where most historians would cite as the fuse that directllly led to the Pacific Theatre of WWII. IMO FDR should be included in the bottom 10 of US Presidents. A lot of economists have said that FDR`s policies prolonged the Great Depression and we did not come out of it until WWII. His selling of Social Security as an "insurance" policy to the American people was an out and out lie. When it was argued to the Supreme Court in the 1937 Helvering v Davis case, social Security was argued as a direct tax, not insurance, which would go into the General Treasury. Thats why it was found constitutional because of the 16th Ammendment You`ll hear a lot of politicians today talk about the "Social Security Lockbox" There is, never has been or ever will be a lockbox. All the money that has been collected through the years in FICA taxes have been spent. As of right now, social Security is $15.7 trillion dollars in the red in unfunded liabilities. This in the Private sector would be known as a Ponzi Scheme.Those are only 2 examples of why FDR doesnt belong, I have more if you are interested because I know they dont teach this in schools today, they did when I was in school.

 

I'm willing to give some of the "founding fathers" their due although they were hypocrites in many matters. If you listen closely to the video there is an underlying theme of individual and state's rights permeating the whole presentation which veers very close to propaganda

 

That is NOT propaganda. the 9th and 10th Ammendments of the US Constitution clearly state it

 

9th Ammendment:

 

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

10th Ammendment:

 

 

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

These 2 ammendments were very important to the Founding fathers and to the States. The federal Government did not create the states, the states created the Federal Government. These were important to them to keep the Federal Government from becoming too powerful. Through our history these have been abused by Democrats, Republicans, Whigs and every other party. And that is one reason that the country is in a $15.8 trillion dollar debt disaster.

 

Joe

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With all due respect, my reference to FDR was mainly focused on the difference between the USA and the totalitarian countries who were on the road to anarchy in the 1930's. You are correct that some economists feel that his actions prolonged the Depression. Others feel that Hoover's inaction forced Roosevelt's hand. No matter how one slices it the fascist nations of Germany and Italy came out of the Depression earlier than the US and the rest of Europe. Yet the USA did not sink into anarchy or totalitarianism. That was my point. BTW I study history and I'm well aware of the Constitution of this country and the evolution of it's meaning through the years. That's why it's considered a "living" document by many. Carry on.

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The US is also not part of Europe. Anarchy and totalitarianism would have never happened here, even if people wanted it.

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The US is also not part of Europe. Anarchy and totalitarianism would have never happened here, even if people wanted it.

 

Weren't the Whiskey Rebellion, Civil War Draft Riots, Bonus Army of the 1930's, and the free reign of the KKK in the south in the early 1900's anarchistic in part? Wouldn't you think that if enough American people ( a majority) supported an idea the US government would have to either try to co-opt it or suppress it by some other means? Or are you suggesting the US would use some other means to stifle dissent ? To do so, in my opinion, would put our country in the same class as those other countries I mentioned in an earlier post.. Carry on.

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Weren't the Whiskey Rebellion, Civil War Draft Riots, Bonus Army of the 1930's, and the free reign of the KKK in the south in the early 1900's anarchistic in part? Wouldn't you think that if enough American people ( a majority) supported an idea the US government would have to either try to co-opt it or suppress it by some other means? Or are you suggesting the US would use some other means to stifle dissent ? To do so, in my opinion, would put our country in the same class as those other countries I mentioned in an earlier post.. Carry on.

 

 

Go get them Professor Trainmaster lol. What amazing is this former NYC subway Motorman is smarter than many college grads here in 2012. :lol:

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Top 5:

George Washington - First President / Help America become Independent.

Thomas Jefferson - The Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase and the Exploration of the West.

Abraham Lincoln - Ended Slavery / One of the major persons that lead to America's current "ethnicity melting pot" status.

Dwight Eisenhower - For establishing the Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways.

Ronald Reagan - For getting the American Economy back on track.

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With all due respect, my reference to FDR was mainly focused on the difference between the USA and the totalitarian countries who were on the road to anarchy in the 1930's. You are correct that some economists feel that his actions prolonged the Depression. Others feel that Hoover's inaction forced Roosevelt's hand. No matter how one slices it the fascist nations of Germany and Italy came out of the Depression earlier than the US and the rest of Europe. Yet the USA did not sink into anarchy or totalitarianism. That was my point. BTW I study history and I'm well aware of the Constitution of this country and the evolution of it's meaning through the years. That's why it's considered a "living" document by many. Carry on.

 

 

if you are aware of the constitution and its meaning then you know state and individual rights are not propaganda,

 

the us constitution is not a "living" document. It is the blueprint of this country. It can be changed ONLY by the Ammendment process. The founders understood that in the future, changes would be needed, but when politicians overstep the bounds put on them by the Constitution, that is tyranny. Every elected official takes an oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." When they overstep the authority that is specifically given to them by the constitution, they have violated that oath.

 

Yes we did not become a totalitarian society, yet FDR sowed the seeds that have for the past 80 years have been growing to become one. If you know history, then you know the first 2 New Deal laws that he pushed, The Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933 and the National Industrial Act of 1933 were both ruled Unconstitutional by the court. so when the Social Security case went to the court, FDR threatened the Court by saying that if it was not passed he would have Congress, which he had control of, to allow him to add one justice to the court for every justice on the court at the time that was over 60 and refused to retire. That, if he was given the authority wouldve given FDR 6 more justices to raise the court to 15 and become basically a rubber stamp to anything FDR wanted/ if that isnt totalitarianesque, then what is?

 

If you also know history, you will know who Norman Thomas is, for those who dont, he was the Socialist Party of Americas Presidential Candidate during FDR`s years. He said this when he retired:

 

"the American people will never knowingly adopt socialism,but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened"

 

Prophetic Words? If you really studied FDR, and are watching President Obama now, you will see that he is trying to make this statement come true. There is a lot of FDR in Obama, that is why IMO he must be voted out this year. BTW, the nyc board of Education named a High School after Thomas, if you visit the schools website, no mention of him being a Socialist is made. And you wonder why kids today arent being taught history today, thats a good example right there

 

Joe

Edited by Phantom909
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if you are aware of the constitution and its meaning then you know state and individual rights are not propaganda,

 

the us constitution is not a "living" document. It is the blueprint of this country. It can be changed ONLY by the Ammendment process. The founders understood that in the future, changes would be needed, but when politicians overstep the bounds put on them by the Constitution, that is tyranny. Every elected official takes an oath to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." When they overstep the authority that is specifically given to them by the constitution, they have violated that oath.

 

Yes we did not become a totalitarian society, yet FDR sowed the seeds that have for the past 80 years have been growing to become one. If you know history, then you know the first 2 New Deal laws that he pushed, The Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933 and the National Industrial Act of 1933 were both ruled Unconstitutional by the court. so when the Social Security case went to the court, FDR threatened the Court by saying that if it was not passed he would have Congress, which he had control of, to allow him to add one justice to the court for every justice on the court at the time that was over 60 and refused to retire. That, if he was given the authority wouldve given FDR 6 more justices to raise the court to 15 and become basically a rubber stamp to anything FDR wanted/ if that isnt totalitarianesque, then what is?

 

If you also know history, you will know who Norman Thomas is, for those who dont, he was the Socialist Party of Americas Presidential Candidate during FDR`s years. He said this when he retired:

 

"the American people will never knowingly adopt socialism,but under the name of liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened"

 

Prophetic Words? If you really studied FDR, and are watching President Obama now, you will see that he is trying to make this statement come true. There is a lot of FDR in Obama, that is why IMO he must be voted out this year. BTW, the nyc board of Education named a High School after Thomas, if you visit the schools website, no mention of him being a Socialist is made. And you wonder why kids today arent being taught history today, thats a good example right there

 

Joe

 

I have studied history, for more decades then I care to remember, and I'm well aware of FDR's legacy. The good and the bad. I'm well aware of his attempt to" pack the court" and his other over-reaching ideas. I'm also well aware of Norman Thomas and his role in US history. I've always known about his socialist background because it was taught in school back in my ancient times. To say that the US Constitution is not a "living document" probably depends on when and where you were schooled. Back in those ancient times we were taught that it was, hence the amendments, whereas the Ten Commandments were an example of one which was writ in stone. The various opinions of the Supreme Court since this country's founding up until today illustrate what I was making reference to. Don't misunderstand me though. My mention of FDR and Abraham Lincoln was to point out that they were trying to keep a country united while other forces were working to achieve the opposite. I agree that Norman Thomas' words were prophetic and while I might not agree with his politics as a whole I wouldn't consider him un-American as I would members of the Communist Party of the USA back in the 1930-1950 era. They were totalitarian. As were Chairman Mao's followers when I was in school 50+ years ago. I learned many years ago that tyranny comes in many shades back then. There's a building in our capital that now bears the name of a person who cloaked himself and his agency in the American flag but whom I personally consider a dirtbag so Norman Thomas H.S. doesn't bother me so much. BTW many polititicians from both major political parties also considered him a dirtbag but were afraid to say so at the time. That's (political) tyranny at it's finest and it's practitioner was J. Edgar Hoover. That's my opinion. I appreciate your responses in this and other threads and look forward to them. I have no ill will toward you in the slightest as we'll probably agree with each other on most things. This isn't Soviet Russia or National Socialist (Nazi) Germany so we can give our history lessons and have these mini debates in an open manner. It's great to be an American where we can do this, in a civil manner. Carry on.

Edited by Trainmaster5

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i guess ive been around as long as you, i graduated richmond hill hs in queens in 1975. but did you notice how all the yungins wont even comment on our back and forth, thats troubling to me.

 

Joe

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i guess ive been around as long as you, i graduated richmond hill hs in queens in 1975. but did you notice how all the yungins wont even comment on our back and forth, thats troubling to me.

 

Joe

 

Erasmus Hall, class of '66, and I've noticed it also. Maybe they are not interested in ancient history unless it's about subways and buses. I'm not condemning all of them because there are some young people on the forums who are quite intelligent about many subjects and I enjoy the interaction with them.

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Erasmus Hall, class of '66, and I've noticed it also. Maybe they are not interested in ancient history unless it's about subways and buses. I'm not condemning all of them because there are some young people on the forums who are quite intelligent about many subjects and I enjoy the interaction with them.

 

 

thats my whole point, kids today arent taught about our history, thats a crime in my opinion, if the kids dont know all history and just taught snippets, they arent equipped to make their own judgements. thats the way education and big government like it

 

joe

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Ronald Reagan - For getting the American Economy back on track.

 

 

In what world did Reaganomics work? Definitely not this one....

 

thats my whole point, kids today arent taught about our history, thats a crime in my opinion, if the kids dont know all history and just taught snippets, they arent equipped to make their own judgements. thats the way education and big government like it

joe

 

 

I don't get your last sentence, but I agree with the rest. People need to understand history, or...to steal the classic line...it'll repeat itself. And in many ways, it already has and continues too. Just look at our current recession/depression. All it takes is 60-70 years and everybody forgets why we need regulation and it all happens again.

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My favorite

1.Richard Nixon

2. President Bush Senior

3. James Buchanan

4. Ronald Reagen

5. George Bush junior

6. Calvin Coolidge (mainly because of the name)

7. Zachary Taylor

8.Rutherford B. Hayes

9. Martin Van Buren (again because of the name)

10 Benjamin Harrison

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Something like this is always going to be opinion based, for every president that did something noteable, people will find good stuff they did and others will find bad stuff they did.

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In what world did Reaganomics work? Definitely not this one....

 

economic data comparing the reagan recover vs the obama recovery in the same first 3 years of their presidentcies , adjusted for inflation show that the cumulative GDP growth over the first 12 quarters was 18.5% for reagan and 8.9% for obama. the net new jobs, adjusted for population over the first 35 months was 12,561,000 for reagan and 2,508,000 for obama.

im not saying that reaganomics was perfect but its a lot better than obamanomics

 

 

 

I don't get your last sentence, but I agree with the rest. People need to understand history, or...to steal the classic line...it'll repeat itself. And in many ways, it already has and continues too. Just look at our current recession/depression. All it takes is 60-70 years and everybody forgets why we need regulation and it all happens again.

 

 

my last sentence is a simple one, as you have seen, trainmaster5 and i have had a spirited debate, mostly about FDR, we both have bought up the same points, which we both learned in new york city high schools, even though we disagree on FDT`s legacy, i respect his views because he processed his opinions, like i did mine, with all the facts that were given to us, my point was, if you werent taught all the facts, like we were, then basically you werent taught, you were indoctrinated into what the education system wants you to know, that sir is a crime.

 

joe

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my last sentence is a simple one, as you have seen, trainmaster5 and i have had a spirited debate, mostly about FDR, we both have bought up the same points, which we both learned in new york city high schools, even though we disagree on FDT`s legacy, i respect his views because he processed his opinions, like i did mine, with all the facts that were given to us, my point was, if you werent taught all the facts, like we were, then basically you werent taught, you were indoctrinated into what the education system wants you to know, that sir is a crime.

 

joe

 

 

I see what you mean. Dunno, I don't always think it's that much of a conspiracy as much as just awful teachers (and I had my share in city public high schools as well) that lead to ignorance. Still, places like Texas trying to cut pieces of history out of the curriculum, now that is scary. And that is a crime like you say.

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I see what you mean. Dunno, I don't always think it's that much of a conspiracy as much as just awful teachers (and I had my share in city public high schools as well) that lead to ignorance. Still, places like Texas trying to cut pieces of history out of the curriculum, now that is scary. And that is a crime like you say.

 

 

Lack of interest on the student's part is also a huge factor. For example I go to a pretty decent high school in Manhattan and most of the kids in that school don't care about academia, they only care about getting a good grade.

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Guest Lance

I don't think it's entirely a lack of interest on the part of the students that's the issue here. Some parts of the curriculum have been cut out over the years in lieu of more standardized test prep. You see, that's what's in right now. As long as those kids pass those tests in January and June (depending on the exam), teachers keep their jobs, schools keep getting funding and the world keeps spinning.

 

Now I'm not saying that kids are without fault here because we all should know that simply isn't the case. It's just not so much of one or the other at play here, but rather a bit of both.

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My favorite

1. Bill Clinton

2. George W. Bush

3. Ronald Reagan

4. George H. W. Bush

5. John F. Kennedy

6. Franklin D. Roosevelt

7. Woodrow Wilson

8. Harry S. Truman

9. Abraham Lincoln

10. Theodore Roosevelt

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