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MattTrain

The 2 and 5 mystery

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The (2) and (5) mystery

 

Can someone explain why the (2) and (5) have to run on each other's lines? The (2) via Lexington Avenue Line and (5) runs via 7 Avenue/Brodaway. Let alone that the (3) has to terminate at 14th Street, and the (4) extended to New Lots to replace the (3).

 

Some would say it would make sense to have the (2) terminate at Chambers Street, and just turn around there, so that the (5) wouldn't be forced to turn around towards the 7 Avenue line.

 

I am guessing one of two reasons why the (2)(5) run on each other's lines

 

1. The South Ferry loop tracks of the (1)

2. The (2)(3) tracks between Chambers Street in Manhattan, and Nevins Street for the (2)(3)(4) and (5)

 

Those are the reasons, I'm assuming.

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Its not a mystery, its just the fact that theres been track work going on between Chambers Street and Wall Street, possibly even to Borough Hall or so. I've seen for myself at Wall Street with they track work they've been doing there recently.

 

Reason why they send the (2) down 7th Avenue first and then Lexington Avenue is so that people who want to go to Brooklyn, can take a (4) train at Bowling Green. And then with the (5) down Lexington Avenue and then up 7th Avenue makes the move more smoother.

 

Now with this weekend, its the other way around with (2) down Lexington Avenue and up 7th Avenue, and then (5) down 7th Avenue and up Lexington Avenue. Same reason with points above.

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If you have the (2) terminating at Chambers St, there's no service to Brooklyn. Both tracks were NOT taken out during this G.O., only one was, which allowed one direction to go directly from Brooklyn, and sent the other one out of service, and forced the (2) down Lexington. Basically, this type of G.O., the (2)/(3)/(5) switcharoo has to do with which track is up for repair between Clark and Chambers Sts. Today, they were doing work on the southbound track at Fulton St.

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As far as I am concerned if the (2) can't get to the Bronx from Manhattan, just run the (5) to White Plains Road and have the (2) run to 42nd, 96th or 137th Streets.

 

If the (2) can't get to Flatbush from Manhattan, run the (5) to Flatbush and the (2) to 42nd, 14th, Chambers, South Ferry or Wall Street. When White Plains Road or Nostrand Avenue passengers wake up to see the (5) instead of the (2), I think most will know what to do.

 

Also Brooklynites should be trained more to use the B-Division Lines that connect to the (2)(5) in Brooklyn, especially the Broadway, 6th and 8th Avenue Lines, which at various points run just a block away from the (1)(2)(3).

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As far as I am concerned if the (2) can't get to the Bronx from Manhattan, just run the (5) to White Plains Road and have the (2) run to 42nd, 96th or 137th Streets.

 

If the (2) can't get to Flatbush from Manhattan, run the (5) to Flatbush and the (2) to 42nd, 14th, Chambers, South Ferry or Wall Street. When White Plains Road or Nostrand Avenue passengers wake up to see the (5) instead of the (2), I think most will know what to do.

 

Also Brooklynites should be trained more to use the B-Division Lines that connect to the (2)(5) in Brooklyn, especially the Broadway, 6th and 8th Avenue Lines, which at various points run just a block away from the (1)(2)(3).

 

For your first suggestion, the (2) will always be able to get to the Bronx from Manhattan, there's almost never a problem with that unless they're doing Lenox work. If it can't get to Brooklyn, they will send one direction on Lex, like they have been doing. And, this leaves Dyre riders in the dust if you send the (5) up WPR. Why should they have to ride a shuttle if you can get both the (2) & the (5) up there?

 

For your second suggestion, do you mean running the (5) in both directions via Lex to Flatbush? If so, then the (2) is stuck on the South Ferry loop and 7th Av riders have no connection to Brooklyn without taking the (L) at 14th St/6th (long tunnel there) or the (S) to Grand Central (long walk there as well). It's better to run one direction up Lex because there will ALWAYS be a connection at Bowling Green.

 

Brooklynites were forced to used the (N) for the LONG (I mean 7 month) period of time when there was no (4) service between Brooklyn Bridge & Utica on the weekends, and Brooklyn Bridge & Atlantic during Late Nights. I think they should have direct service this time around if they can, and this (2)/(3)/(5) switcharoo seems to be working fine.

 

If I have misunderstood any of your comments, please correct me, as I may have made some incorrect comments.

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The (2)(5) reroutes are part of the Fulton Street Transit hub. When this is completed, The (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(A)(J)(M)(R)(W) and (Z) will all connect to this huge hub at Cortlandt and Fulton Streets. That's a big project. The (1)(2)(3)(4)(5) service is subject to change during weekends and late nights because of construction of the South Ferry and Fulton Streets.

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The (2)(5) reroutes are part of the Fulton Street Transit hub. When this is completed, The (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(A)(J)(M)(R)(W) and (Z) will all connect to this huge hub at Cortlandt and Fulton Streets. That's a big project. The (1)(2)(3)(4)(5) service is subject to change during weekends and late nights because of construction of the South Ferry and Fulton Streets.

These G.O.s with the (2) and (5) alternating routes have nothing to do with Fulton Street Transit Center though.

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For your first suggestion, the (2) will always be able to get to the Bronx from Manhattan, there's almost never a problem with that unless they're doing Lenox work. If it can't get to Brooklyn, they will send one direction on Lex, like they have been doing. And, this leaves Dyre riders in the dust if you send the (5) up WPR. Why should they have to ride a shuttle if you can get both the (2) & the (5) up there?

 

For your second suggestion, do you mean running the (5) in both directions via Lex to Flatbush? If so, then the (2) is stuck on the South Ferry loop and 7th Av riders have no connection to Brooklyn without taking the (L) at 14th St/6th (long tunnel there) or the (S) to Grand Central (long walk there as well). It's better to run one direction up Lex because there will ALWAYS be a connection at Bowling Green.

 

Brooklynites were forced to used the (N) for the LONG (I mean 7 month) period of time when there was no (4) service between Brooklyn Bridge & Utica on the weekends, and Brooklyn Bridge & Atlantic during Late Nights. I think they should have direct service this time around if they can, and this (2)/(3)/(5) switcharoo seems to be working fine.

 

If I have misunderstood any of your comments, please correct me, as I may have made some incorrect comments.

 

I believe keeping service intact in Manhattan is the most important goal. That is not to say anything against the other boroughs but Manhattan is obviously the most important borough.

 

The Lenox Avenue segment of the (2)(3) has been a sore spot on the system for a long time. Every few years there is major rerouting of the (2)(3) trains. If you live in Harlem when this occurs and you are going to the Bronx, you already know to take the crosstown buses over to the east side.

 

In the Bronx the (5) is truncated to 180th Street anyway, so most are already used to the switching at 180th Street and 149th Street, that is a small thing.

 

The walk isn't that long between Grand Central (S) and the (4)(6) trains, plus you can take escalators between the (7) and the (1)(3)(4)(6) trains.

 

You can also take a short walk between the (1)(3) and the (N)(Q)(R) to get to Atlantic Avenue for another short walk to the (4)(5).

 

Also when the (4) can't get from Brooklyn to Manhattan, yes they used the (N)(Q)(R) or at times the (J) to get to 14th Street or Brooklyn Bridge, which I saw as perfectly fine. Transfers are simple to make between trains. Now any one of us would know just to take the other train (2)(5), but to most who don't know the system I think it is less confusing if you just had them take the B division trains between Brooklyn and Manhattan and keep the lines intact, i.e. (2) on the West (5) on the East in Manhattan. In addition you can have people take a bus between Lexington and 7th Avenues with a Metrocard.

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The (5) isn't truncated on weekends, though unless there is construction. Let Dyre riders get their through service, even if it is to 7th Av.

 

If you let the (5) go to Brooklyn in both directions via Lex Av, you have 2 lines going from Lex to Brooklyn and NO service to 7th Av from Brooklyn with NO connection at Bowling Green either. Unless the (2) is cut in both directions between Atlantic and Chambers, I see no reason not to let one direction go up 7th from Brooklyn, and one direction go up Lex. If you can provide the service, then why make people transfer? I say that this (2)/(3)/(5) switcharoo is not broken, so it doesn't needs to get fixed. There's no reason for people to take a crosstown bus or take the (S) or the (L) from 7th Av to Lex Av if you CAN provide the service from 7th Av straight to Bowling Green and have a simple transfer there.

 

Alright, it's coming next weekend and the weekend after. Here's what happens:

 

No service to 7th Av from Brooklyn (but there is TO Brooklyn), and riders can transfer at Bowling Green.

 

If you had the (5) running in Both Directions from Lex to Brooklyn and the (2) running in Both directions using the South Ferry Loop, where would they transfer to get to Brooklyn?

 

Again, if I've misunderstood anything, let me know.

Edited by R62A 1991

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The (5) isn't truncated on weekends, though unless there is construction. Let Dyre riders get their through service, even if it is to 7th Av.

 

If you let the (5) go to Brooklyn in both directions via Lex Av, you have 2 lines going from Lex to Brooklyn and NO service to 7th Av from Brooklyn with NO connection at Bowling Green either. Unless the (2) is cut in both directions between Atlantic and Chambers, I see no reason not to let one direction go up 7th from Brooklyn, and one direction go up Lex. If you can provide the service, then why make people transfer? I say that this (2)/(3)/(5) switcharoo is not broken, so it doesn't needs to get fixed. There's no reason for people to take a crosstown bus or take the (S) or the (L) from 7th Av to Lex Av if you CAN provide the service from 7th Av straight to Bowling Green and have a simple transfer there.

 

Alright, it's coming next weekend and the weekend after. Here's what happens:

 

No service to 7th Av from Brooklyn (but there is TO Brooklyn), and riders can transfer at Bowling Green.

 

If you had the (5) running in Both Directions from Lex to Brooklyn and the (2) running in Both directions using the South Ferry Loop, where would they transfer to get to Brooklyn?

 

Again, if I've misunderstood anything, let me know.

 

The simple transfer between (2)(4) and (5) trains are good at Bowling Green. The (2) runs between Chambers Street in Manhattan and Nevins Street in Brooklyn in only one direction. If the (2) terminated at Chambers Street, there'd be no service between Chambers and Nevins Streets. I see what you mean, that's a good suggestion. B)

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The simple transfer between (2)(4) and (5) trains are good at Bowling Green. The (2) runs between Chambers Street in Manhattan and Nevins Street in Brooklyn in only one direction. If the (2) terminated at Chambers Street, there'd be no service between Chambers and Nevins Streets. I see what you mean, that's a good suggestion. :(

 

Just to let you know, I understand what you are saying. I use your suggestion: the Shuttle over to the East Side, because I am a (3) rider, and the (4) will lead me directly to New Lots without a transfer. Only thing is, I wasn't sure that everyone else would agree with it. So, your point is still valid.

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Just to let you know, I understand what you are saying. I use your suggestion: the Shuttle over to the East Side, because I am a (3) rider, and the (4) will lead me directly to New Lots without a transfer. Only thing is, I wasn't sure that everyone else would agree with it. So, your point is still valid.

 

Oh that's good. I like the (4) going to New Lots Avenue, gives some riders some help so that they can transfer to (2) service.

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The (5) isn't truncated on weekends, though unless there is construction. Let Dyre riders get their through service, even if it is to 7th Av.

 

If you let the (5) go to Brooklyn in both directions via Lex Av, you have 2 lines going from Lex to Brooklyn and NO service to 7th Av from Brooklyn with NO connection at Bowling Green either. Unless the (2) is cut in both directions between Atlantic and Chambers, I see no reason not to let one direction go up 7th from Brooklyn, and one direction go up Lex. If you can provide the service, then why make people transfer? I say that this (2)/(3)/(5) switcharoo is not broken, so it doesn't needs to get fixed. There's no reason for people to take a crosstown bus or take the (S) or the (L) from 7th Av to Lex Av if you CAN provide the service from 7th Av straight to Bowling Green and have a simple transfer there.

 

Alright, it's coming next weekend and the weekend after. Here's what happens:

 

No service to 7th Av from Brooklyn (but there is TO Brooklyn), and riders can transfer at Bowling Green.

 

If you had the (5) running in Both Directions from Lex to Brooklyn and the (2) running in Both directions using the South Ferry Loop, where would they transfer to get to Brooklyn?

 

Again, if I've misunderstood anything, let me know.

 

First of all, Brooklynites have the options:

 

at 42nd to switch to the (N)(Q)(R) to Atlantic Avenue

at 42nd to switch to the (S) or (7) to Grand Central for (4)(5) to Brooklyn

 

at 34th Street for the (D)(N)(Q)(R) to Atlantic Avenue. If I am upstairs in that area and want to get Brooklyn from that area, you better believe it I would take the B division trains to Atlantic Avenue for the (4)(5) to New Lots or Flatbush.

 

at 14th Street, you can just as easy take the (L) to Union Square, which is one stop over.

 

at Chambers Street, Brooklyn Bridge is two to three blocks away anyways, you could just as easy catch the (R) at City Hall or the (4)(5) at Fulton Street or Brooklyn Bridge.

 

Here is something they have done in the past as well that works.

 

They would have the (2) run to either 34th Street, Chambers Street or South Ferry and have the (3) run to Wall Street. That allows transfer at Fulton Street as another option.

 

Like I said before Manhattan is the priority borough and I believe service should remain intact in Manhattan. It confuses tourists and most travel within Manhattan.

 

Why screw around with Manhattan and Bronx riders just to appease Brooklynites when they have plenty of other ways to get from midtown and Lower Manhattan (where most people from Brooklyn travel to anyways). They have the (A)(C)(D)(N)(Q)(R) trains to help out.

 

Your argument would have more strength if there was no assistance from the B division trains, whereas people in Manhattan and the Bronx have to remember to take the other train traveling between boroughs.

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I understand exactly what you're saying, but what I'm trying to show is that as long as a connection can be made at Bowling Green, MAKE that connection. It makes no sense that the connection isn't made if the trackwork is not there, because it is the absolute most convenient transfer point for riders from 7th Av to get to Brooklyn.

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