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Nassau Inter-County Express Proposals and Ideas


VWM

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I'm not sure, I haven't used the N1 on weekends in a while but more frequent would be better than hourly service. If they bypassed Valley Stream LIRR perhaps they could keep the same headway.

 

The problem is that the LIRR Hempstead Branch only runs every hour. So in order to make a timed connection, N1 buses would either have to run every hour or every 30 minutes.

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Orhave the n1 short turn in elmont(semi hourly) and full route to queens village hourly. And case dismissed

 

Also the short turn n1 to elmont would begin/ end at green acres and the full route run from Hewlett to Queens Village

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Orhave the n1 short turn in elmont(semi hourly) and full route to queens village hourly. And case dismissed

 

Also the short turn n1 to elmont would begin/ end at green acres and the full route run from Hewlett to Queens Village

 

That would add the cost of an extra bus. Currently, 2 buses give you 40-45 minute headways along the full route. If you wanted to extend the route to Queens Village, while still using 2 buses, headways would have to go down to 60 minutes. If you want to have 30 minute service on the "main" portion of the route, you would need a third bus, which costs money.

 

Would be it be a good investment to run that third bus? Maybe. But considering NICE just cut a bunch of routes, they're likely to be very stingy with the amount of buses they assign to routes.

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NICE will NEVER do any of these, but I'm going to post these anyway... Some of these are old ideas I have (pre-NICE), some reflect changes to service patterns post-LIB (meaning, changes since the takeover)...

 

Let's do this.

 

n1/n2: Pair routings that would run b/w 165th but terminal & Broadway in Hewlett.... The difference between the two of them is basically one would assist the n6 for a longer duration (n1) & the other would serve the declining mall that is coincidentally named after farmland (Green Acres).....

 

n1 routing from 165th would be the same until you hit Elmont rd... No more turning down Elmont rd... Instead, buses would continue eastward to Franklin av... Then west along Dutch Broadway, south on Fletcher (I believe that street is), to parallel the n2 routing to Sunrise Hwy (LIRR Valley Stream), then continues south down S Franklin av (SB only) to Roosevelt av.... From there it would retain the current n1 to Hewlett.... All trips would run to Hewlett.

 

n2 routing from 165th would be the same as the the n1 routing until you hit Franny Lou (Francis Lewis).... This is a completely new routing... it would continue down F. Lewis until you hit Linden Blvd (closed door on Francis Lewis only), then it runs east on Linden Blvd, south on N. Central... From there , it would utilize the current n1 routing to Hewlett (via Green Acres)... Most trips would end at Green Acres.

 

n4: I don't know where to begin with this route; I happen to think it's ran rather half-heartedly/lazily (not entirely NICE's fault, as I felt this way Pre-NICE, but they have contributed to it).... For starters, it could use more service overall, BUT not all the way to Freeport (from Jamaica).... I think there's simply too much service to Freeport from Jamaica to begin with (of which aren't n4X trips, that is)... I wish it were as easy as split the route at RVC, but it's not.... Instead, what I would suggest is more "local" buses short turning at RVC (from Parsons/Archer) - of which would divert to serve Green Acres along the way (via N. Central <> Mill, to Sidney).... PM Rush hours (for the intra-Nassau ridership), I think service b/w Lynbrook & Freeport is also in order, but the scheduling could/would be a logistical nightmare....

 

n6: Reinstate the n6LTD.

 

n8: Eliminated

 

n15/n17: As I said in the NICE changes thread, I happen to think there should be an n15x that runs up to HTC (and points north & east) via the current n17.... The proposed n15x service would still emanate from LIRR Long Beach on the south end, but the actual "express" service would begin, once you hit LIRR RVC... The only stop b/w LIRR RVC & downtown Hempstead would be the hospital itself (Mercy).... Also, the buses that would be designated as n15x's would all run to RFM (much like the n6x running past HTC to NCC).... n15 "local" service would all end at HTC....

 

n19: Runs between Freeport & Sunrise Mall.... I agree 100% with the upcoming (real) change....

 

n20: Full route to run between Flushing & Roslyn RR/Roslyn HS (via old northern > main > roslyn (rd), lincoln, to stand (it's a current n27 stop)) for most of the day.... Some service would end at Great Neck (but not nearly enough to come out w/ a standalone route [n20G] like NICE has).....

 

n21/n78: Runs between Plainview & LIRR Glen Cove.... The route is really a combination of portions of the n20, 21, and the 78.... Main reason I came up w/ this combination is b/c the current n78 isn't much more than a stub of a route that runs to Plainview, ever since it got cut back from Mineola... Only reason I would retain service b/w Hicksville & Greenvale are for the colleges...

 

The routing itself from Plainview would go as follows... Current n78 to Hicksville, current n20 to Glen Cove rd, current n27 to Sea Cliff av - where it would continue up Glen Cove av instead... then on up along Forest rd, then pan south on walnut, to highland, to end at the RR station.... The Glen Cove (area) portion of the routing is more or less to supplement the n27 & to run deeper into Glen Cove (which neither the 21 or the 27 does) on top of it... the RR station isn't much more than an area for buses to terminate.....

 

Bryant av, etc. portion of the current n21 I would eliminate.... Hardly anyone rides along that portion of the n21 anyway, which would leave  the n21 as 100% supplementary b/w Roslyn & Flushing (think about that distance) - if not for using it to get to Northern if it happens to arrive before an n27.... There's a bit of shunning of the n21 going on at Flushing anyway....

 

n22/a/l/x/y/z/alpha/beta.... Ok, you get the point, but yeah.... I've posted this idea on the forum before, I'll just reiterate it....

 

I would bring back a 22 LTD service (wouldn't be routed the way it was before it got cut though, which IMO was just plain stupid [skipping RFM to continue along Westbury av to get to glen cove rd]).... I would also retain the current express service..... Gist of the idea is that the local services (22 & 22a) would be left alone, and the non-local (stop) services would be provided/tweaked to better serve east of RFM & west of RFM usage....

 

Maybe this summary/comparison might help, because I really don't feel like drawing maps right now....

- n22L would be a renamed 22x that would make more stops than the 22x (hence, the Ltd notation over the express notation)....

- n22x would run over the n22a route & would be an express version of every other variant (n22, n22a, and the n22L) between RFM & Jamaica... the 22a is faster than the 22 between Jamaica & RFM (largely due to the LIRR Mineola diversion), but the 22a is still a local route....

 

The only stops that would exist on (my) n22x would be RFM, Willis, New Hyde Park, Springfield, 179th (F), and 165th bus terminal
... again, running along the n22a route.....

 

n23: I would like to extend this back to HTC (except, via the n40/41 instead of via RFM), but the 40/41 is more than enough service out of Mineola towards HTC..... I'm not sure how much demand for it exists back to RFM, so I won't comment on that..... So unfortunately, I have no choice but to leave it as is.....

 

n24: Runs between 165th bus terminal & RFM only.... Service to RxR plaza (or whatever they call it now) eliminated.

 

n25: One of a few routes in the system that's compact/structured perfectly from end to end... No change.

 

n26: Runs between 165th bus terminal & LIRR Great Neck.. However, buses would not run nearly as long a stretch along Hillside.....

Instead, I'd divert service to run up Francis Lewis & across Union Tpke. (where buses would make select stops).... From Union tpke/Lakeville rd, it would retain the current routing to LIRR Great Neck....

 

I'll be honest, the intent of this route is to take riders from off the often late Q46, as well as providing slightly faster service b/w Nassau county, and the (F).... No one would wince from lost service along Lakeville rd b/w Union tpke & Hillside...

 

 

 

Part 2 to this, coming sometime later....

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NICE will NEVER do any of these, but I'm going to post these anyway... Some of these are old ideas I have (pre-NICE), some reflect changes to service patterns post-LIB (meaning, changes since the takeover)...

 

Let's do this.

 

n1/n2: Pair routings that would run b/w 165th but terminal & Broadway in Hewlett.... The difference between the two of them is basically one would assist the n6 for a longer duration (n1) & the other would serve the declining mall that is coincidentally named after farmland (Green Acres).....

 

n1 routing from 165th would be the same until you hit Elmont rd... No more turning down Elmont rd... Instead, buses would continue eastward to Franklin av... Then west along Dutch Broadway, south on Fletcher (I believe that street is), to parallel the n2 routing to Sunrise Hwy (LIRR Valley Stream), then continues south down S Franklin av (SB only) to Roosevelt av.... From there it would retain the current n1 to Hewlett.... All trips would run to Hewlett.

 

n2 routing from 165th would be the same as the the n1 routing until you hit Franny Lou (Francis Lewis).... This is a completely new routing... it would continue down F. Lewis until you hit Linden Blvd (closed door on Francis Lewis only), then it runs east on Linden Blvd, south on N. Central... From there , it would utilize the current n1 routing to Hewlett (via Green Acres)... Most trips would end at Green Acres.

 

n4: I don't know where to begin with this route; I happen to think it's ran rather half-heartedly/lazily (not entirely NICE's fault, as I felt this way Pre-NICE, but they have contributed to it).... For starters, it could use more service overall, BUT not all the way to Freeport (from Jamaica).... I think there's simply too much service to Freeport from Jamaica to begin with (of which aren't n4X trips, that is)... I wish it were as easy as split the route at RVC, but it's not.... Instead, what I would suggest is more "local" buses short turning at RVC (from Parsons/Archer) - of which would divert to serve Green Acres along the way (via N. Central <> Mill, to Sidney).... PM Rush hours (for the intra-Nassau ridership), I think service b/w Lynbrook & Freeport is also in order, but the scheduling could/would be a logistical nightmare....

 

n6: Reinstate the n6LTD.

 

n8: Eliminated

 

n15/n17: As I said in the NICE changes thread, I happen to think there should be an n15x that runs up to HTC (and points north & east) via the current n17.... The proposed n15x service would still emanate from LIRR Long Beach on the south end, but the actual "express" service would begin, once you hit LIRR RVC... The only stop b/w LIRR RVC & downtown Hempstead would be the hospital itself (Mercy).... Also, the buses that would be designated as n15x's would all run to RFM (much like the n6x running past HTC to NCC).... n15 "local" service would all end at HTC....

 

n19: Runs between Freeport & Sunrise Mall.... I agree 100% with the upcoming (real) change....

 

n20: Full route to run between Flushing & Roslyn RR/Roslyn HS (via old northern > main > roslyn (rd), lincoln, to stand (it's a current n27 stop)) for most of the day.... Some service would end at Great Neck (but not nearly enough to come out w/ a standalone route [n20G] like NICE has).....

 

n21/n78: Runs between Plainview & LIRR Glen Cove.... The route is really a combination of portions of the n20, 21, and the 78.... Main reason I came up w/ this combination is b/c the current n78 isn't much more than a stub of a route that runs to Plainview, ever since it got cut back from Mineola... Only reason I would retain service b/w Hicksville & Greenvale are for the colleges...

 

The routing itself from Plainview would go as follows... Current n78 to Hicksville, current n20 to Glen Cove rd, current n27 to Sea Cliff av - where it would continue up Glen Cove av instead... then on up along Forest rd, then pan south on walnut, to highland, to end at the RR station.... The Glen Cove (area) portion of the routing is more or less to supplement the n27 & to run deeper into Glen Cove (which neither the 21 or the 27 does) on top of it... the RR station isn't much more than an area for buses to terminate.....

 

Bryant av, etc. portion of the current n21 I would eliminate.... Hardly anyone rides along that portion of the n21 anyway, which would leave  the n21 as 100% supplementary b/w Roslyn & Flushing (think about that distance) - if not for using it to get to Northern if it happens to arrive before an n27.... There's a bit of shunning of the n21 going on at Flushing anyway....

 

n22/a/l/x/y/z/alpha/beta.... Ok, you get the point, but yeah.... I've posted this idea on the forum before, I'll just reiterate it....

 

I would bring back a 22 LTD service (wouldn't be routed the way it was before it got cut though, which IMO was just plain stupid [skipping RFM to continue along Westbury av to get to glen cove rd]).... I would also retain the current express service..... Gist of the idea is that the local services (22 & 22a) would be left alone, and the non-local (stop) services would be provided/tweaked to better serve east of RFM & west of RFM usage....

 

Maybe this summary/comparison might help, because I really don't feel like drawing maps right now....

- n22L would be a renamed 22x that would make more stops than the 22x (hence, the Ltd notation over the express notation)....

- n22x would run over the n22a route & would be an express version of every other variant (n22, n22a, and the n22L) between RFM & Jamaica... the 22a is faster than the 22 between Jamaica & RFM (largely due to the LIRR Mineola diversion), but the 22a is still a local route....

 

The only stops that would exist on (my) n22x would be RFM, Willis, New Hyde Park, Springfield, 179th (F), and 165th bus terminal

... again, running along the n22a route.....

 

n23: I would like to extend this back to HTC (except, via the n40/41 instead of via RFM), but the 40/41 is more than enough service out of Mineola towards HTC..... I'm not sure how much demand for it exists back to RFM, so I won't comment on that..... So unfortunately, I have no choice but to leave it as is.....

 

n24: Runs between 165th bus terminal & RFM only.... Service to RxR plaza (or whatever they call it now) eliminated.

 

n25: One of a few routes in the system that's compact/structured perfectly from end to end... No change.

 

n26: Runs between 165th bus terminal & LIRR Great Neck.. However, buses would not run nearly as long a stretch along Hillside.....

Instead, I'd divert service to run up Francis Lewis & across Union Tpke. (where buses would make select stops).... From Union tpke/Lakeville rd, it would retain the current routing to LIRR Great Neck....

 

I'll be honest, the intent of this route is to take riders from off the often late Q46, as well as providing slightly faster service b/w Nassau county, and the (F).... No one would wince from lost service along Lakeville rd b/w Union tpke & Hillside...

 

 

 

Part 2 to this, coming sometime later....

 

With the n1 & n2, I don't think it's worth taking them out of the residential parts of Elmont that way. Meacham Avenue isn't really that close to Franklin Avenue with the way the streets meander in that area. Of course, with the n2 being eliminated, they're not going to have a choice. But basically, if you're going to run the n2, you might as well keep it covering Meacham. The same with the n1 along Elmont Road. I don't think you'd gain enough ridership from Francis Lewis to justify denying coverage to Elmont Road.

 

I'm in that old camp of "extend the Q4 to Elmont Road", FWIW. You would provide the direct access to the commercial area there, and the streets in that area follow the Queens numbering system (**shrugs**) I mean, you do provide the connection for anybody looking for the n1 to Green Acres, and meanwhile patrons further east by Francis Lewis can continue to take the Q77 down to the Q5/85 or however they're getting out there.

 

The thing I don't like about your n20 & n21 is that there's no connection between them anymore. Somebody trying to get from Hicksville or one of the colleges over to the "main" part of Northern Blvd would have to take the n21 and then either the LIRR or n27 down to Roslyn Heights, to catch the n20. On the other hand, like you said, I wouldn't have the n21 run over to Bryant Avenue, and I like Roslyn LIRR as an n20 terminal more than say, Greenvale.

 

On the northern end of that route (I'll call it n21 for now), is there any particular reason you had it avoid Locust Valley? I know it has a reputation as a snobby area, but at the same time, the western section is very similar demographically to Glen Cove. Even closer to the LIRR station, I thought I'd be seeing more mansions and everything. Maybe there's a lot of wannabe snobs there or something. At the very least, I can't see the harm in turning it around via Forest-Skunks Misery-10th-Forest.

 

BTW, what would be the span of this service? The n78 was cut back to rush hours, the n21 was originally cut back to rush hours, and as you know, the stretch between Greenvale & Hicksville has a lot of dead mileage. 

 

So wait, (your) n22X wouldn't run out to Hicksville? It would basically be an express version of the n22A? (In the sense of ending at the RFM. Obviously I know it would take the quicker n22A route compared to the n22 route through Mineola)

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With the n1 & n2, I don't think it's worth taking them out of the residential parts of Elmont that way. Meacham Avenue isn't really that close to Franklin Avenue with the way the streets meander in that area. Of course, with the n2 being eliminated, they're not going to have a choice. But basically, if you're going to run the n2, you might as well keep it covering Meacham. The same with the n1 along Elmont Road. I don't think you'd gain enough ridership from Francis Lewis to justify denying coverage to Elmont Road.

 

I'm in that old camp of "extend the Q4 to Elmont Road", FWIW. You would provide the direct access to the commercial area there, and the streets in that area follow the Queens numbering system (**shrugs**) I mean, you do provide the connection for anybody looking for the n1 to Green Acres, and meanwhile patrons further east by Francis Lewis can continue to take the Q77 down to the Q5/85 or however they're getting out there.

 

The thing I don't like about your n20 & n21 is that there's no connection between them anymore. Somebody trying to get from Hicksville or one of the colleges over to the "main" part of Northern Blvd would have to take the n21 and then either the LIRR or n27 down to Roslyn Heights, to catch the n20. On the other hand, like you said, I wouldn't have the n21 run over to Bryant Avenue, and I like Roslyn LIRR as an n20 terminal more than say, Greenvale.

 

On the northern end of that route (I'll call it n21 for now), is there any particular reason you had it avoid Locust Valley? I know it has a reputation as a snobby area, but at the same time, the western section is very similar demographically to Glen Cove. Even closer to the LIRR station, I thought I'd be seeing more mansions and everything. Maybe there's a lot of wannabe snobs there or something. At the very least, I can't see the harm in turning it around via Forest-Skunks Misery-10th-Forest.

 

BTW, what would be the span of this service? The n78 was cut back to rush hours, the n21 was originally cut back to rush hours, and as you know, the stretch between Greenvale & Hicksville has a lot of dead mileage. 

 

So wait, (your) n22X wouldn't run out to Hicksville? It would basically be an express version of the n22A? (In the sense of ending at the RFM. Obviously I know it would take the quicker n22A route compared to the n22 route through Mineola)

I'll work backwards...

 

- No, as you don't need an n22L & an n22x (along with the n22) running out of Hicksville (that IMO was the problem w/ the old, real setup... I believe NICE knew running 22L's & 22x's between Hicksville & RFM would've been excessive, so they had the 22L skipping RFM & continuing along Westbury av in Carle Place to get to Glen Cove rd.... Those buses weren't all that patronized, and literally showed & proved how many ppl b/w, well, Hicksville & Carle Place along the 22 wanted express service to Queens via the bus)..... The idea is to get more of the masses to Queens quicker, not necessarily those who live the farthest.... What I don't like about the (current) 22x is that it runs local b/w Hicksville & RFM - Which is why I would have a 22L making LTD stops from end to end.... People take the 22a (from RFM) generally b/c it's quicker than the 22, and of course, you get a better chance at a seat..... I'm having the 22x parallel the 22a (and making less stops) as to not have more of the masses (those riding b/w RFM & Jamaica) waiting for a bus (the current 22x) locally coming from Hicksville..... Most the ridership on the 22x starts at RFM...

 

 

- The span of the combined n21/n78 service (via the colleges the (real) n20 serves) from end to end (Glen Cove - Plainview) would be from 6am to around 6pm.... The span of service b/w Glen Cove & Hicksville would be from 6am to 8pm.... In other words, buses would stop running to Plainview after 6pm..... Your next question, I wasn't thinking about serving Locust Valley - The onus is to provide service to Glen Cove past the current n21/27 terminal (Pratt); it's too abrupt..... That's all I was thinking about with that extension....

 

 

- Yeah, I wanted to maintain a connection between the n20 & n21 also, but I don't/didn't think it's worth having the combined n21/n78 route run to Roslyn RR (where I have the n20 ending), to then have to double back to Glen Cove rd & service (more of) Glen Cove the way it does..... Something would have to give - Either I drop the route running past Hicksville, or I drop the route running past Pratt blvd. in Glen Cove....

From jump, I knew I didn't want the combined n21/78 running along the current n21 only portion, as no one really uses it.... I also did not want the n21 Q59-ing (supplementing) the n20.... Those were 2 things I was/I am adamant about..... As such, I believe the n20 & n21 should be separate routes IMO - hence the n21 running in the opposite direction of the n20.... So yeah, I have the combined route helping out the 27, b/w Glen cove & Northern blvd at least..... I originally had the route running from LIRR Glen Cove to Hicksville, but then I thought about the n78 & the way the route was bastardized, service-wise.... Also, I'm really trying to eliminate the amt. of routes ending at Hicksville (as you'll see in part 2 of the changes)....

 

Basically, the message I'm sending is, if you're coming from the boroughs & need the colleges, you're going to either have to make your way to the n22/24 for the connection to the combined n21/78 route, or take the main line to Hicksville for connection to the bus..... There's not much ridership on the current n20 out of the colleges, unfortunately, anyway.....You would think the n20 is a lifeline for a lot of them, but it isn't (if that were the case, I would have had the n20 ending at SUNY Old Westbury instead of Roslyn RR)......

 

 

- I have the n1 running on Franklin to assist the n25 riders from the south trying to get to Jamaica; I'd rather garner ridership that way on the n1 than having it run along a street where people tend to forget a bus even exists along it (Elmont rd)..... Right now, there's too many riding all the way up to Hillside av for service to Jamaica on the 25 (that is, if they don't want to cram onto the n6)... That shouldn't be.... Yeah, there's the 24 @ Jericho Tpke, but it is well known by anyone taking buses b/w Nassau & Queens that generally, the n22 > n24 ...... BTW, this n1 is a route I'm proposing all day service (to Jamaica) for, I'd get rid of having buses end at Hempstead Tpke, off peak....

 

I'm not worried about maintaining coverage in SW Nassau county, I'm trying to increase ridership on those routes... The current n2/8 usage is abominable (hence the axing of that route by NICE) & the n1's that end at Hempstead Tpke is very, very weak..... A shake-up has to start somewhere, and that's my way of doing it.... The status quo isn't getting it done..... Trend keeps up, and the n1 will be relegated to a rush hour only service b/w Jamaica & Hewlett, with no off peak service b/w Hewlett (or Valley Stream) & Elmont - Hempstead Tpke....

 

I don't want that to happen...

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Just Meacham avenue and in a different tone voice

 

Probable to edit the use of THANK YOU FOR RIDING LONG ISLAND BUS...and NICE offer to edit ALL taped recorded announcement

 

Remember when i was a teenager took the n6 to Hempstead then the n72 to the coleseum that time NICE was part of MTA and announcement were as said above and in red lighting

 

I must say that long island bus is to me the First bus agency of the tri state area to use GPS radar announcements (Beeline NJT CT transit Norwalk WHEELS GBT PVTA and SCT followed years later in the latter i must say yes because i remember boarding an old gillig phantom on the s1 with old paint scheme from WW Mall to Amityville) ...i say in that time How does it know every following stop if i don't see the driver pressing any button (GPS in that time we're still unpopular)

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NICE will NEVER do any of these, but I'm going to post these anyway... Some of these are old ideas I have (pre-NICE), some reflect changes to service patterns post-LIB (meaning, changes since the takeover)...

 

Let's do this.

 

n1/n2: Pair routings that would run b/w 165th but terminal & Broadway in Hewlett.... The difference between the two of them is basically one would assist the n6 for a longer duration (n1) & the other would serve the declining mall that is coincidentally named after farmland (Green Acres).....

 

n1 routing from 165th would be the same until you hit Elmont rd... No more turning down Elmont rd... Instead, buses would continue eastward to Franklin av... Then west along Dutch Broadway, south on Fletcher (I believe that street is), to parallel the n2 routing to Sunrise Hwy (LIRR Valley Stream), then continues south down S Franklin av (SB only) to Roosevelt av.... From there it would retain the current n1 to Hewlett.... All trips would run to Hewlett.

 

n2 routing from 165th would be the same as the the n1 routing until you hit Franny Lou (Francis Lewis).... This is a completely new routing... it would continue down F. Lewis until you hit Linden Blvd (closed door on Francis Lewis only), then it runs east on Linden Blvd, south on N. Central... From there , it would utilize the current n1 routing to Hewlett (via Green Acres)... Most trips would end at Green Acres. So you basically swapped the routings of the 1 and 2...interesting. The n1 is a shell of of its former self from the LIB days. So you would have no buses on Elmont Rd between the Turnpike and Linden...seems fair

 

n4: I don't know where to begin with this route; I happen to think it's ran rather half-heartedly/lazily (not entirely NICE's fault, as I felt this way Pre-NICE, but they have contributed to it).... For starters, it could use more service overall, BUT not all the way to Freeport (from Jamaica).... I think there's simply too much service to Freeport from Jamaica to begin with (of which aren't n4X trips, that is)... I wish it were as easy as split the route at RVC, but it's not.... Instead, what I would suggest is more "local" buses short turning at RVC (from Parsons/Archer) - of which would divert to serve Green Acres along the way (via N. Central <> Mill, to Sidney).... PM Rush hours (for the intra-Nassau ridership), I think service b/w Lynbrook & Freeport is also in order, but the scheduling could/would be a logistical nightmare....I would just make the n4 a LTD and call it day. I wouldn't have the 4 serve Green Acres though

 

n6: Reinstate the n6LTD. Agreed

 

n8: Eliminated Sure, why not. I wonder happened to those "select trips" to HTC

 

n15/n17: As I said in the NICE changes thread, I happen to think there should be an n15x that runs up to HTC (and points north & east) via the current n17.... The proposed n15x service would still emanate from LIRR Long Beach on the south end, but the actual "express" service would begin, once you hit LIRR RVC... The only stop b/w LIRR RVC & downtown Hempstead would be the hospital itself (Mercy).... Also, the buses that would be designated as n15x's would all run to RFM (much like the n6x running past HTC to NCC).... n15 "local" service would all end at HTC....Seems fair

 

n19: Runs between Freeport & Sunrise Mall.... I agree 100% with the upcoming (real) change....I guess so, but then they're gonna complain about the S20

 

n20: Full route to run between Flushing & Roslyn RR/Roslyn HS (via old northern > main > roslyn (rd), lincoln, to stand (it's a current n27 stop)) for most of the day.... Some service would end at Great Neck (but not nearly enough to come out w/ a standalone route [n20G] like NICE has).....Better than that n20G crap NICE has now

 

n21/n78: Runs between Plainview & LIRR Glen Cove.... The route is really a combination of portions of the n20, 21, and the 78.... Main reason I came up w/ this combination is b/c the current n78 isn't much more than a stub of a route that runs to Plainview, ever since it got cut back from Mineola... Only reason I would retain service b/w Hicksville & Greenvale are for the colleges...

 

The routing itself from Plainview would go as follows... Current n78 to Hicksville, current n20 to Glen Cove rd, current n27 to Sea Cliff av - where it would continue up Glen Cove av instead... then on up along Forest rd, then pan south on walnut, to highland, to end at the RR station.... The Glen Cove (area) portion of the routing is more or less to supplement the n27 & to run deeper into Glen Cove (which neither the 21 or the 27 does) on top of it... the RR station isn't much more than an area for buses to terminate.....

 

Bryant av, etc. portion of the current n21 I would eliminate.... Hardly anyone rides along that portion of the n21 anyway, which would leave  the n21 as 100% supplementary b/w Roslyn & Flushing (think about that distance) - if not for using it to get to Northern if it happens to arrive before an n27.... There's a bit of shunning of the n21 going on at Flushing anyway....I like this route, what would be your proposed buses per hour?

 

n22/a/l/x/y/z/alpha/beta.... Ok, you get the point, but yeah.... I've posted this idea on the forum before, I'll just reiterate it....

 

I would bring back a 22 LTD service (wouldn't be routed the way it was before it got cut though, which IMO was just plain stupid [skipping RFM to continue along Westbury av to get to glen cove rd]).... I would also retain the current express service..... Gist of the idea is that the local services (22 & 22a) would be left alone, and the non-local (stop) services would be provided/tweaked to better serve east of RFM & west of RFM usage....

 

Maybe this summary/comparison might help, because I really don't feel like drawing maps right now....

- n22L would be a renamed 22x that would make more stops than the 22x (hence, the Ltd notation over the express notation)....

- n22x would run over the n22a route & would be an express version of every other variant (n22, n22a, and the n22L) between RFM & Jamaica... the 22a is faster than the 22 between Jamaica & RFM (largely due to the LIRR Mineola diversion), but the 22a is still a local route....

 

The only stops that would exist on (my) n22x would be RFM, Willis, New Hyde Park, Springfield, 179th (F), and 165th bus terminal

... again, running along the n22a route.....I would add Francis Lewis as an express stop

 

n23: I would like to extend this back to HTC (except, via the n40/41 instead of via RFM), but the 40/41 is more than enough service out of Mineola towards HTC..... I'm not sure how much demand for it exists back to RFM, so I won't comment on that..... So unfortunately, I have no choice but to leave it as is.....I would keep the 23 as is

 

n24: Runs between 165th bus terminal & RFM only.... Service to RxR plaza (or whatever they call it now) eliminated. So what would run on OCR between RF and Hicksville?

 

n25: One of a few routes in the system that's compact/structured perfectly from end to end... No change. Perfect

 

n26: Runs between 165th bus terminal & LIRR Great Neck.. However, buses would not run nearly as long a stretch along Hillside.....

Instead, I'd divert service to run up Francis Lewis & across Union Tpke. (where buses would make select stops).... From Union tpke/Lakeville rd, it would retain the current routing to LIRR Great Neck....

 

I'll be honest, the intent of this route is to take riders from off the often late Q46, as well as providing slightly faster service b/w Nassau county, and the (F).... No one would wince from lost service along Lakeville rd b/w Union tpke & Hillside...Never thought of that. Would it still run rush hours only?

 

 

 

Part 2 to this, coming sometime later....

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Meacham ave is very important to have a bus run in it

 

Never forget when MTA had long island bus in the automatic announcement the n6 would say:

 

"MEACHAM AVENUE...TRANSFER N2"

 

Gonna miss that

 

There's nothing important about Meacham Avenue. It's a mostly residential area except for the shopping center at the intersection of Meacham/Covert Ave and Hempstead Turnpike. I have a feeling that the people who live on Meacham walk to the turnpike to catch the n6 and aren't coming from the n2/8 loop. That loop was way too infrequent and indirect for most people to take.

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Yeah and also the users would prefer to have a transfer added on their metrocard to enter the subway. ...if they take the n2 then the n6 toJamaica then another $2.75 must be pay ...i would do that as well

 

Doing that i get myself a can soda and pretzels or chocolates

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Just Meacham avenue and in a different tone voice

 

Probable to edit the use of THANK YOU FOR RIDING LONG ISLAND BUS...and NICE offer to edit ALL taped recorded announcement

 

Remember when i was a teenager took the n6 to Hempstead then the n72 to the coleseum that time NICE was part of MTA and announcement were as said above and in red lighting

 

I must say that long island bus is to me the First bus agency of the tri state area to use GPS radar announcements (Beeline NJT CT transit Norwalk WHEELS GBT PVTA and SCT followed years later in the latter i must say yes because i remember boarding an old gillig phantom on the s1 with old paint scheme from WW Mall to Amityville) ...i say in that time How does it know every following stop if i don't see the driver pressing any button (GPS in that time we're still unpopular)

I think at those times the announcements were based on mileage/wheel rotations as opposed to GPS. There were times that the announcements were incorrect because they were started at the wrong stop or the destination sign was changed late.

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From what I've seen, buses along Meacham Ave did not get much patronage. When the N2 went to Jamaica, the buses had a seated load, but many riders were using the Hempstead Turnpike stops and were using the N1, N2 and N3 so they wouldn't have to deal with the N6. (I know I did)

 

The N1 was the only bus I'd see turn down Elmont Road full. Also ,the bus gets loaded in the morning, some trips to Jamaica in the morning flag on Hempstead Turnpike after the Elmont Road stop, especially if the N6/N6x is late.

 

I'm not sure about the evening trips from Jamaica now, they tend to get overshadowed by the n6. When the N1 ran more frequently from Jamaica in the evenings, riders getting off along Hempstead Turnpike would intentionally take the N1, N2, & N3 to avoid the packed and/or late N6.

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Yeah i noticedthat in SCT sometimes

 

Reprogramming it is timing especially for very long routes like the s58,s62 and especially s92 although in the latter north of riverhead it only mentioned about 5 stops all at or near a RR station and Orient point (if i can recall .i tthink the announcement dosent mentioned Orient Point even being a LAST STOP or might be that the s92 driver coded the bus as NO PASSENGERS

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I would first fix the uneven headways on Old Country Road with the n78, by pushing the n79 from Walt Whitman to depart 17 minutes later than normal towards Hicksville, with the exception of the first 3 trips towards Hicksville.  It would help make the westbound headway more even, since the eastbound headway is much more even. You actually save a bus like that too (and if it does interlining with other routes), since buses arrive WWM a few minutes after the EB depature, and have a nice long break. Under this, there would be 12-17 minute break at WWM only.


NICE will NEVER do any of these, but I'm going to post these anyway... Some of these are old ideas I have (pre-NICE), some reflect changes to service patterns post-LIB (meaning, changes since the takeover)...

 

Let's do this.

 

n1/n2: Pair routings that would run b/w 165th but terminal & Broadway in Hewlett.... The difference between the two of them is basically one would assist the n6 for a longer duration (n1) & the other would serve the declining mall that is coincidentally named after farmland (Green Acres).....

 

n1 routing from 165th would be the same until you hit Elmont rd... No more turning down Elmont rd... Instead, buses would continue eastward to Franklin av... Then west along Dutch Broadway, south on Fletcher (I believe that street is), to parallel the n2 routing to Sunrise Hwy (LIRR Valley Stream), then continues south down S Franklin av (SB only) to Roosevelt av.... From there it would retain the current n1 to Hewlett.... All trips would run to Hewlett.

 

n2 routing from 165th would be the same as the the n1 routing until you hit Franny Lou (Francis Lewis).... This is a completely new routing... it would continue down F. Lewis until you hit Linden Blvd (closed door on Francis Lewis only), then it runs east on Linden Blvd, south on N. Central... From there , it would utilize the current n1 routing to Hewlett (via Green Acres)... Most trips would end at Green Acres.

 

n4: I don't know where to begin with this route; I happen to think it's ran rather half-heartedly/lazily (not entirely NICE's fault, as I felt this way Pre-NICE, but they have contributed to it).... For starters, it could use more service overall, BUT not all the way to Freeport (from Jamaica).... I think there's simply too much service to Freeport from Jamaica to begin with (of which aren't n4X trips, that is)... I wish it were as easy as split the route at RVC, but it's not.... Instead, what I would suggest is more "local" buses short turning at RVC (from Parsons/Archer) - of which would divert to serve Green Acres along the way (via N. Central <> Mill, to Sidney).... PM Rush hours (for the intra-Nassau ridership), I think service b/w Lynbrook & Freeport is also in order, but the scheduling could/would be a logistical nightmare....

 

n6: Reinstate the n6LTD.

 

n8: Eliminated

 

n15/n17: As I said in the NICE changes thread, I happen to think there should be an n15x that runs up to HTC (and points north & east) via the current n17.... The proposed n15x service would still emanate from LIRR Long Beach on the south end, but the actual "express" service would begin, once you hit LIRR RVC... The only stop b/w LIRR RVC & downtown Hempstead would be the hospital itself (Mercy).... Also, the buses that would be designated as n15x's would all run to RFM (much like the n6x running past HTC to NCC).... n15 "local" service would all end at HTC....

 

n19: Runs between Freeport & Sunrise Mall.... I agree 100% with the upcoming (real) change....

 

n20: Full route to run between Flushing & Roslyn RR/Roslyn HS (via old northern > main > roslyn (rd), lincoln, to stand (it's a current n27 stop)) for most of the day.... Some service would end at Great Neck (but not nearly enough to come out w/ a standalone route [n20G] like NICE has).....

 

n21/n78: Runs between Plainview & LIRR Glen Cove.... The route is really a combination of portions of the n20, 21, and the 78.... Main reason I came up w/ this combination is b/c the current n78 isn't much more than a stub of a route that runs to Plainview, ever since it got cut back from Mineola... Only reason I would retain service b/w Hicksville & Greenvale are for the colleges...

 

The routing itself from Plainview would go as follows... Current n78 to Hicksville, current n20 to Glen Cove rd, current n27 to Sea Cliff av - where it would continue up Glen Cove av instead... then on up along Forest rd, then pan south on walnut, to highland, to end at the RR station.... The Glen Cove (area) portion of the routing is more or less to supplement the n27 & to run deeper into Glen Cove (which neither the 21 or the 27 does) on top of it... the RR station isn't much more than an area for buses to terminate.....

 

Bryant av, etc. portion of the current n21 I would eliminate.... Hardly anyone rides along that portion of the n21 anyway, which would leave  the n21 as 100% supplementary b/w Roslyn & Flushing (think about that distance) - if not for using it to get to Northern if it happens to arrive before an n27.... There's a bit of shunning of the n21 going on at Flushing anyway....

 

n22/a/l/x/y/z/alpha/beta.... Ok, you get the point, but yeah.... I've posted this idea on the forum before, I'll just reiterate it....

 

I would bring back a 22 LTD service (wouldn't be routed the way it was before it got cut though, which IMO was just plain stupid [skipping RFM to continue along Westbury av to get to glen cove rd]).... I would also retain the current express service..... Gist of the idea is that the local services (22 & 22a) would be left alone, and the non-local (stop) services would be provided/tweaked to better serve east of RFM & west of RFM usage....

 

Maybe this summary/comparison might help, because I really don't feel like drawing maps right now....

- n22L would be a renamed 22x that would make more stops than the 22x (hence, the Ltd notation over the express notation)....

- n22x would run over the n22a route & would be an express version of every other variant (n22, n22a, and the n22L) between RFM & Jamaica... the 22a is faster than the 22 between Jamaica & RFM (largely due to the LIRR Mineola diversion), but the 22a is still a local route....

 

The only stops that would exist on (my) n22x would be RFM, Willis, New Hyde Park, Springfield, 179th (F), and 165th bus terminal
... again, running along the n22a route.....

 

n23: I would like to extend this back to HTC (except, via the n40/41 instead of via RFM), but the 40/41 is more than enough service out of Mineola towards HTC..... I'm not sure how much demand for it exists back to RFM, so I won't comment on that..... So unfortunately, I have no choice but to leave it as is.....

 

n24: Runs between 165th bus terminal & RFM only.... Service to RxR plaza (or whatever they call it now) eliminated.

 

n25: One of a few routes in the system that's compact/structured perfectly from end to end... No change.

 

n26: Runs between 165th bus terminal & LIRR Great Neck.. However, buses would not run nearly as long a stretch along Hillside.....

Instead, I'd divert service to run up Francis Lewis & across Union Tpke. (where buses would make select stops).... From Union tpke/Lakeville rd, it would retain the current routing to LIRR Great Neck....

 

I'll be honest, the intent of this route is to take riders from off the often late Q46, as well as providing slightly faster service b/w Nassau county, and the (F).... No one would wince from lost service along Lakeville rd b/w Union tpke & Hillside...

 

 

 

Part 2 to this, coming sometime later....

 

n1/n2: I would essentially flip the designations, because the new n1 operates similar to the n2, and vice versa, in that area. IDK about eliminating service on Elmont Road, but I feel that the coverage in that area seems decently, and it would slightly n6 OTP (at least during rush hours), since there are two options.

 

As the Francis Lewis Blvd/Linden blvd routing, it'd be interesting to see how that would work.

 

n4: I wouldn't attempt any sort of n4 split, but a possibility of short-turning at RVC can be considered

 

n6/n8: Agreed

 

n20: I can agree with that

 

n21/78: That would suck for riders going to the western north shore, since essentially, there would no longer be a direct bus to said areas. They would have to take the 22's or the 24 to the 25/23/27, or even have to transfer to the n20 itself, depending on where they're going. There are a considerable amount of people who do that. Unless the n20 is extended to Greenvale/East Hills, I can't agree to that; I would much rather have the n20G/n20H setup, since there's direct service to the North Shore. Those riders wouldn't have to go through the Nassau Hub, which would take them twice as long to get to other destinations.

 

n22: I would have the n22X still run to Hicksville, and then run on the routing you mentioned. I would keep the same amount of stops in each direction. The n22L I would run on the current n22X routing from RFM, and then local stops to Hicksville. West of RFM, the bus would run limited-stop, stopping at timepoints listed on the schedule. The, local service between the n22/n22a can be determined. I would also given new notations for each of the notation. The n22 would remain as is, the 22A would be the 42, the 22L would be the 52, and the 22X would be the 62. I feel that there's ridership evenly dispersed among the stops, more or less, with some having more riders than others.

 

n24: So what would replace the segment between RFM and Hicksville, the n79?

 

n26: I would actually turn it down at 188 Street, since there is more of Union Turnpike covered, and Union Tpke to Hillside along 188 and Francis Lewis are similarly apart. 

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n4: I wouldn't attempt any sort of n4 split, but a possibility of short-turning at RVC can be considered

 

When NICE first came in, they had short-turns on the n4 (I think instead of 10 minute headways to Freeport, they had 7-8 minute headways to RVC and 15 minute headways to Freeport).

 

n24: So what would replace the segment between RFM and Hicksville, the n79?

 

Patience, my friend, that's why he said that's only "Part 1".  ;)

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When NICE first came in, they had short-turns on the n4 (I think instead of 10 minute headways to Freeport, they had 7-8 minute headways to RVC and 15 minute headways to Freeport).

 

They switched it back, but what made them switch it back? Was it complaints, ridership drop?

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Many N4's that depart Freeport (especially on weekends) are standing room-only and cannot take on any more passengers by the time they get to Rockville Centre.  There's very heavy ridership between Rockville Centre and Freeport.  It would be insane to make any cuts to a super-busy money-making route like the N4. 

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Ouch....

 

n24 idea should read:

Full route b/w 165th bus terminal & Hicksville.... Short turns b/w 165th bus terminal & RFM (basically, I'm eliminating all service to RxR plaza/Reckson bldg/whatever it's called now).....

 

 

With that said, lemme get to Q43's & BM5's comments....

 

 

n1/n2: So you basically swapped the routings of the 1 and 2... interesting. The n1 is a shell of of its former self from the LIB days. So you would have no buses on Elmont Rd between the Turnpike and Linden...seems fair

B35 says: Somewhat.... I mean, I do have the n2 using Central av to get to Merrick & the n1 using Fletcher, etc. to get to Merrick....

As far as the n2 in Queens, I'm undecided if it should run open door or not.... I mean it's aight that the Q5 & Q85 runs to Green Acres, but I think fewer Q5's should run there & a Nassau route that runs through some portion of SE Queens should be serving Green Acres (I decided to use Francis Lewis, but Springfield is viable as well)....Q5 has enough on its plate serving the myriad of intra-Queens riders along Merrick , even w/ the help it gets from the Q4/84/85......

 

n19: I guess so, but then they're gonna complain about the S20

B35 says: There won't be much of anyone coming off n19's seeking the S20, if that's what you mean....

 

n20: Better than that n20G crap NICE has now

B35 says: True, but it's the n20H that bothers/worries me more.... What's to stop them from axing that route & having the 21 replace it for service b/w Great Neck & Roslyn.....

 

n21/n78: I like this route, what would be your proposed buses per hour?

B35 says: Hourly throughout most of the day....

 

n22/a/l/x/y/z/alpha/beta.... I would add Francis Lewis as an express stop

B35 says: Good point..... This is a current issue with the (real) 22x......

 

n24: . So what would run on OCR between RF and Hicksville?

B35 says: See erratum @ the beginning of the post....

 

n26: .Never thought of that. Would it still run rush hours only?

B35 says: That is what I'm in limbo on.... If you told me that Q46 riders east of Franny Lou (namely, the LIJ crowds) could get to the (F) far quicker than riding the full Q46 (which I hated doing when I had that brief assignment at LIJ), I'd tell you I'd run this service at least every 20 minutes, including off peak hours.... However, it's not that simple...

 

What do you think (about increasing the span on this bad boy)?

- Q43LTD in red

- B35 via Church in blue

 

 

n1/n2: I would essentially flip the designations, because the new n1 operates similar to the n2, and vice versa, in that area. IDK about eliminating service on Elmont Road, but I feel that the coverage in that area seems decently, and it would slightly n6 OTP (at least during rush hours), since there are two options.

 

As the Francis Lewis Blvd/Linden blvd routing, it'd be interesting to see how that would work.

 

B35 says: I'm really not worried about creating that gap in service along Elmont.... It's not much more than a buffer to get to Central av & points south on the n1..... I guarantee you'd get more people on the bus along Franklin than along Elmont - which would be my goal/aim....

 

As far as the notations of the proposed routes, I can see where someone would look at it that way... However, the n1 already runs along Hempstead Tpke towards Jamaica, so I kept it as the n1 - even though it uses portions of the n2 to get to LIRR Valley Stream..... That, and it's the "original" route that runs to Hewlett... Whereas the proposed n2 is a whole new route that runs through more of Queens, with..... If not for coming up w/ an n2 proposal, there would be no "n2" AFAIC, because again, the n2/n8 combo should've never been initiated.....

 

n4: I wouldn't attempt any sort of n4 split, but a possibility of short-turning at RVC can be considered

B35 says: Yep, they can be reverted, I agree......

 

n21/78: That would suck for riders going to the western north shore, since essentially, there would no longer be a direct bus to said areas. They would have to take the 22's or the 24 to the 25/23/27, or even have to transfer to the n20 itself, depending on where they're going. There are a considerable amount of people who do that. Unless the n20 is extended to Greenvale/East Hills, I can't agree to that; I would much rather have the n20G/n20H setup, since there's direct service to the North Shore. Those riders wouldn't have to go through the Nassau Hub, which would take them twice as long to get to other destinations.

B35 says: You can disagree with the idea, but the parts in bold, I have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about within it....

 

n22: I would have the n22X still run to Hicksville, and then run on the routing you mentioned. I would keep the same amount of stops in each direction. The n22L I would run on the current n22X routing from RFM, and then local stops to Hicksville. West of RFM, the bus would run limited-stop, stopping at timepoints listed on the schedule. The, local service between the n22/n22a can be determined. I would also given new notations for each of the notation. The n22 would remain as is, the 22A would be the 42, the 22L would be the 52, and the 22X would be the 62. I feel that there's ridership evenly dispersed among the stops, more or less, with some having more riders than others.

B35 says: I don't see the need for the 22, a 22L, and the 22x out of Hicksviile... I say just give the east of RFM folks a local & a LTD and call it a day..

The 22x for most east of RFM riders isn't much more than another local (another n22) to RFM....

 

n24: So what would replace the segment between RFM and Hicksville, the n79?

B35 says: See erratum @ the beginning of the post....

 

n26: I would actually turn it down at 188 Street, since there is more of Union Turnpike covered, and Union Tpke to Hillside along 188 and Francis Lewis are similarly apart. 

B35 says: Not saying you're right or wrong, but the only other options I considered were Springfield & LNP.....

- B35 via Church in blue

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