Jump to content
Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
VWM

Nassau Inter-County Express Proposals and Ideas

Recommended Posts

Ouch....

 

n24 idea should read:

Full route b/w 165th bus terminal & Hicksville.... Short turns b/w 165th bus terminal & RFM (basically, I'm eliminating all service to RxR plaza/Reckson bldg/whatever it's called now).....

 

 

With that said, lemme get to Q43's & BM5's comments....

 

 

n1/n2: So you basically swapped the routings of the 1 and 2... interesting. The n1 is a shell of of its former self from the LIB days. So you would have no buses on Elmont Rd between the Turnpike and Linden...seems fair

B35 says: Somewhat.... I mean, I do have the n2 using Central av to get to Merrick & the n1 using Fletcher, etc. to get to Merrick....

As far as the n2 in Queens, I'm undecided if it should run open door or not.... I mean it's aight that the Q5 & Q85 runs to Green Acres, but I think fewer Q5's should run there & a Nassau route that runs through some portion of SE Queens should be serving Green Acres (I decided to use Francis Lewis, but Springfield is viable as well)....Q5 has enough on its plate serving the myriad of intra-Queens riders along Merrick , even w/ the help it gets from the Q4/84/85......

 

n19: I guess so, but then they're gonna complain about the S20

B35 says: There won't be much of anyone coming off n19's seeking the S20, if that's what you mean....

 

n20: Better than that n20G crap NICE has now

B35 says: True, but it's the n20H that bothers/worries me more.... What's to stop them from axing that route & having the 21 replace it for service b/w Great Neck & Roslyn.....

 

n21/n78: I like this route, what would be your proposed buses per hour?

B35 says: Hourly throughout most of the day....

 

n22/a/l/x/y/z/alpha/beta.... I would add Francis Lewis as an express stop

B35 says: Good point..... This is a current issue with the (real) 22x......

 

n24: . So what would run on OCR between RF and Hicksville?

B35 says: See erratum @ the beginning of the post....

 

n26: .Never thought of that. Would it still run rush hours only?

B35 says: That is what I'm in limbo on.... If you told me that Q46 riders east of Franny Lou (namely, the LIJ crowds) could get to the (F) far quicker than riding the full Q46 (which I hated doing when I had that brief assignment at LIJ), I'd tell you I'd run this service at least every 20 minutes, including off peak hours.... However, it's not that simple...

 

What do you think (about increasing the span on this bad boy)?

- Q43LTD in red

- B35 via Church in blue

 

 

n1/n2: I would essentially flip the designations, because the new n1 operates similar to the n2, and vice versa, in that area. IDK about eliminating service on Elmont Road, but I feel that the coverage in that area seems decently, and it would slightly n6 OTP (at least during rush hours), since there are two options.

 

As the Francis Lewis Blvd/Linden blvd routing, it'd be interesting to see how that would work.

 

B35 says: I'm really not worried about creating that gap in service along Elmont.... It's not much more than a buffer to get to Central av & points south on the n1..... I guarantee you'd get more people on the bus along Franklin than along Elmont - which would be my goal/aim....

 

As far as the notations of the proposed routes, I can see where someone would look at it that way... However, the n1 already runs along Hempstead Tpke towards Jamaica, so I kept it as the n1 - even though it uses portions of the n2 to get to LIRR Valley Stream..... That, and it's the "original" route that runs to Hewlett... Whereas the proposed n2 is a whole new route that runs through more of Queens, with..... If not for coming up w/ an n2 proposal, there would be no "n2" AFAIC, because again, the n2/n8 combo should've never been initiated.....

 

n4: I wouldn't attempt any sort of n4 split, but a possibility of short-turning at RVC can be considered

B35 says: Yep, they can be reverted, I agree......

 

n21/78: That would suck for riders going to the western north shore, since essentially, there would no longer be a direct bus to said areas. They would have to take the 22's or the 24 to the 25/23/27, or even have to transfer to the n20 itself, depending on where they're going. There are a considerable amount of people who do that. Unless the n20 is extended to Greenvale/East Hills, I can't agree to that; I would much rather have the n20G/n20H setup, since there's direct service to the North Shore. Those riders wouldn't have to go through the Nassau Hub, which would take them twice as long to get to other destinations.

B35 says: You can disagree with the idea, but the parts in bold, I have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about within it....

 

n22: I would have the n22X still run to Hicksville, and then run on the routing you mentioned. I would keep the same amount of stops in each direction. The n22L I would run on the current n22X routing from RFM, and then local stops to Hicksville. West of RFM, the bus would run limited-stop, stopping at timepoints listed on the schedule. The, local service between the n22/n22a can be determined. I would also given new notations for each of the notation. The n22 would remain as is, the 22A would be the 42, the 22L would be the 52, and the 22X would be the 62. I feel that there's ridership evenly dispersed among the stops, more or less, with some having more riders than others.

B35 says: I don't see the need for the 22, a 22L, and the 22x out of Hicksviile... I say just give the east of RFM folks a local & a LTD and call it a day..

The 22x for most east of RFM riders isn't much more than another local (another n22) to RFM....

 

n24: So what would replace the segment between RFM and Hicksville, the n79?

B35 says: See erratum @ the beginning of the post....

 

n26: I would actually turn it down at 188 Street, since there is more of Union Turnpike covered, and Union Tpke to Hillside along 188 and Francis Lewis are similarly apart. 

B35 says: Not saying you're right or wrong, but the only other options I considered were Springfield & LNP.....

- B35 via Church in blue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the heck of it, I'm wondering if extending the n14 to Roosevelt (that little triangle made by Nassau Road/Babylon Turnpike/Centennial Avenue would've boosted ridership, or if it would've simply taken riders off the north-south routes in that area. It gives Roosevelt an easier connection to the n15 to Long Beach, as opposed to backtracking to Hempstead or taking a 3-seat ride through Freeport, and it provides better general coverage (people living over by say, Brookside Avenue, which is kind of far from the n40/41/43). The question is, how many people would benefit from that?

 

They switched it back, but what made them switch it back? Was it complaints, ridership drop?

 

Since it was every other bus, I would assume that they underestimated ridership east of RVC (which likely led to flagging going eastbound leading Freeport riders to wait a full 15 minutes for the next packed Freeport bus). I think at the time, the n4X didn't exist yet either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NICE got back to me on some of the suggestions I made for their service earlier this year. They want me to come in for a meeting. I don't know if I'm going yet given the direction the system is heading.

Were they suggestions for new routes?

 

B35 says: I'm really not worried about creating that gap in service along Elmont.... It's not much more than a buffer to get to Central av & points south on the n1..... I guarantee you'd get more people on the bus along Franklin than along Elmont - which would be my goal/aim....

I'm not so sure that's the case, why did the N3 get canceled?

 

Since it was every other bus, I would assume that they underestimated ridership east of RVC (which likely led to flagging going eastbound leading Freeport riders to wait a full 15 minutes for the next packed Freeport bus). I think at the time, the n4X didn't exist yet either.

Now that you mention it, from my experience riding the N4 it makes sense that the N4 trips to Freeport were packed west of Rockville Center, because the ridership going to Freeport were concentrated on those specific trips along with those going to 5 corners and Rockville Center.

 

While the trips beyond RVC to Freeport could run on 15 min intervals, mixing them with riders west of Rockville Center overwhelmed those trips. Maybe if they ran limited to Park Ave it would work? But then it may cause an inconvenience to those just making trips between local stops east and west of Park Ave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Were they suggestions for new routes?

 

I'm not so sure that's the case, why did the N3 get canceled?

The n3 was a rush hour only line before getting cut, essentially being an n25 short-turn in the reverse peak direction, and trips extending to Jamaica. Ridership on it's sole segments weren't the best, and it was cut for being duplicative. Off peak service was transfered to the n8 in 2002 when it originated. The fact that the n3 survived that long after is rather a surprise to me.

Ouch....

 

n24 idea should read:

 

 

With that said, lemme get to Q43's & BM5's comments....

 

- Q43LTD in red

- B35 via Church in blue

 

 

- B35 via Church in blue

The thing I was trying to mention is that to get to the Western North shore, riders would have take the n22 or the n24 to the Nassau Hub area, and take a bus going north, and in some cases, having to even transfer a third time to the n20. That makes the trip twice as long. There are a considerable amount of people who make that trip on the current n20 to the Western North Shore Communities (by Western North shore, I mean to points west of Roslyn). Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The n24 rush hour route to gleen Curtis blvd (East Meadow) should be scrapped i mean it has low ridership since the busiest part of the n24 (70% of all n24 users) is between Jamaica and RFM...east of the mall is low (25% while the last 5% to east meadow)

 

To say much im surprised to see the n24 extended to Hicksville since its original route was to RFM...then again it replaces the n79 and is a bargain to go all the way to Hicksville. (Km 45) with just $2.75 and not having to transfer at mineola or at the mall

 

I think the n78 should run between mineola and Plain view and replace the mentioned n24 since the run between Hicksville to plain view is so short

 

N78: Mineola- Plainview via RFM and Hicksville all old country road

n79: Hicksville- South Huntington normal route

 

At this the n78 would raise up its readership as this route is almost very close to become extinct. ..a close call just saved this route from elimination this Sunday by a mere 2%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The n24 rush hour route to gleen Curtis blvd (East Meadow) should be scrapped i mean it has low ridership since the busiest part of the n24 (70% of all n24 users) is between Jamaica and RFM...east of the mall is low (25% while the last 5% to east meadow)

 

To say much im surprised to see the n24 extended to Hicksville since its original route was to RFM...then again it replaces the n79 and is a bargain to go all the way to Hicksville. (Km 45) with just $2.75 and not having to transfer at mineola or at the mall

 

I think the n78 should run between mineola and Plain view and replace the mentioned n24 since the run between Hicksville to plain view is so short

 

N78: Mineola- Plainview via RFM and Hicksville all old country road

n79: Hicksville- South Huntington normal route

 

At this the n78 would raise up its readership as this route is almost very close to become extinct. ..a close call just saved this route from elimination this Sunday by a mere 2%

When was this mentioned? I never heard anything about the n78 being considered for elimination.

 

As for the n78, I would extend it on the eastern end to Mellville along the former n95 segment, and the route 110, and leave the n24 to points west of Hicksville. I actually like the n78/79 to run up to Hicksville only. Additionally, I would look into extend the n78 to SUNY Farmingdale, and Farmingdale LIRR. Either that, or have the n70 run Oakley> Eastern Pkwy > Secatogue Avenue in Farmingdale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Were they suggestions for new routes?

Including that, yes. If anyone has any realistic ideas for NICE, pm me them with the reasoning as well and if I end up going, I'll bring it up at the meeting.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not so sure that's the case, why did the N3 get canceled?

Look how many trips per day that route had... Now compare that to the N1...

 

It wasn't because there's so much ridership on Elmont over Franklin, if that's the point you were making w/ that...

 

The thing I was trying to mention is that to get to the Western North shore, riders would have take the n22 or the n24 to the Nassau Hub area, and take a bus going north, and in some cases, having to even transfer a third time to the n20. That makes the trip twice as long. There are a considerable amount of people who make that trip on the current n20 to the Western North Shore Communities (by Western North shore, I mean to points west of Roslyn).

If you want to tell me that the n20 gets a considerable amt. of usage out of Hicksville, I would concur with that.... What it looks like you're conveying to me however is, that there is a considerable amt. of usage b/w Hicksville & (somewhere within Nassau county).... I don't agree with that, at all.... A lot of that ridership in question is going to Queens....

 

The rest of this about Nassau Hub & what not, I see as a non-issue.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OhYeah forgot the n95 existed you just reminded me is a very good point also have it advanced to where the n70 terminates as well as an access to SUNY Melville (that is if the n95 passed through these areas)

 

What i meant of the n78 is that it was at the board in other words in school you must get a 65 to pass the semester 55 is failing completely. ..the n78 was like say a 67 (compared to a 76 on the sister n79)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look how many trips per day that route had... Now compare that to the N1...

 

It wasn't because there's so much ridership on Elmont over Franklin, if that's the point you were making w/ that...

The n1 is the only route on Elmont Road. Franklin Ave has the n25, and at one point had the N3, N8 and N25.

 

I used to take the N25 in the mornings, the only time the N8 had riders was if it showed up first, most people used the n8 bus between Corona Ave and Hempstead Turnpike which means it was redundant, especially if the N25 was only a few mins behind it. Sometimes I'd use the N8 to Green Acres first, stop by Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds on Franklin Ave, and hop on the next N25 to Lynbrook which was less than 10 mins later. 

 

Also, when the N1, N2, and N3 all ran along Hempstead Turnpike during rush hours, the N3 always had the least people, followed by the N2, then N1 which was typically SRO. I must also add that the n1 did and sometimes still flags people along Hempstead Turnpike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a map of service changes I have planned for the Nassau Hub area, 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=en_US&app=mp&mid=z7P2QilxQnLY.kKGHdieIgK48

 

Essentially, there would be a loop route, and for one to get around the area, every congregates at one of the terminal and wait for these buses. This plan eliminates all n16, n40/41 service north of Hempstead, all n6x service east of Hempstead, as well as n27 service south of Roosevelt Field Mall, and n35 service to NCC. While there would be people transferring, this allows less buses to be utilized on the NCC-Hempstead segment, however still maintaining balanced loads, and riders on Westbury Blvd get double the service. Some areas will also get later service along the loop routing. At RFM and Hempstead, riders will have loop service on a combined headway of no less than 15-20 minutes at night, and more frequent throughout the day. The amount of buses saved would allow them to run this service during the respective period. This would also improve reliability on the n16, n35, and the n40/41.

 

Here are some other proposals I have thought about, in addition to the proposals in that link:

 

2) I have thought of also short-turning the n35 at Hempstead during midday periods only, and having the n15 make all the stops north to Westbury, but I feel that it may cause more reliability problems with such a long route (even if the n15 would run once an hour).

 

2A) I would have the n15 running via Clinton Avenue at all times, and then running up the n35 route to Westbury in the way I have it out in the map. I don't believe that the Washington Avenue service should IMO exist, even for rush hour service. Those riders have the n40/41. Not too many people get off or board there anyways, from what I've seen. There's full buses, but almost everybody gets off at RFM, or in the vicinity. I would rather have it go up Clinton Avenue instead (that's something I would ask NICE to look into if they are to make any potential cuts; those riders can transfer to the n15 if they need it at Hempstead from the Nassau Hub Loop). During the rush, every other bus would go to Westbury. The n35 would continue running between Hempstead and Baldwin.

 

3) Alternative, the n40/41 could be kept the same as it currently is, and the loop would go down on Clinton instead from Roosevelt Field. Less buses are saved in order to allocate resources, but it is proportional to the amount of runtime shaven off the loop routes. Comments, Suggestions?

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a map of service changes I have planned for the Nassau Hub area, 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=en_US&app=mp&mid=z7P2QilxQnLY.kKGHdieIgK48

 

Essentially, there would be a loop route, and for one to get around the area, every congregates at one of the terminal and wait for these buses. This plan eliminates all n16, n40/41 service north of Hempstead, all n6x service east of Hempstead, as well as n27 service south of Roosevelt Field Mall, and n35 service to NCC. While there would be people transferring, this allows less buses to be utilized on the NCC-Hempstead segment, however still maintaining balanced loads, and riders on Westbury Blvd get double the service. Some areas will also get later service along the loop routing. At RFM and Hempstead, riders will have loop service on a combined headway of no less than 15-20 minutes at night, and more frequent throughout the day. The amount of buses saved would allow them to run this service during the respective period.

 

 

Alternative, the n40/41 could be kept the same as it currently is, and the loop would go down on Clinton from Roosevelt Field. Less buses are saved in order to allocate resources, but it is proportional to the amount of runtime shaven off the loop routes. This would also improve reliability on the n16, n35, and the n40/41. Comments, Suggestions?

 

I find the Nassau Hub loop to be pretty unnecessary The n16, n35, n40/41 are all perfect the way they are and don't need any changing. Besides, there's more demand for getting in and out of the Hub area from/to other parts of Nassau than within the Hub itself.

Edited by NY1635

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a map of service changes I have planned for the Nassau Hub area, 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=en_US&app=mp&mid=z7P2QilxQnLY.kKGHdieIgK48

 

Essentially, there would be a loop route, and for one to get around the area, every congregates at one of the terminal and wait for these buses. This plan eliminates all n16, n40/41 service north of Hempstead, all n6x service east of Hempstead, as well as n27 service south of Roosevelt Field Mall, and n35 service to NCC. While there would be people transferring, this allows less buses to be utilized on the NCC-Hempstead segment, however still maintaining balanced loads, and riders on Westbury Blvd get double the service. Some areas will also get later service along the loop routing. At RFM and Hempstead, riders will have loop service on a combined headway of no less than 15-20 minutes at night, and more frequent throughout the day. The amount of buses saved would allow them to run this service during the respective period. This would also improve reliability on the n16, n35, and the n40/41.

 

Here are some other proposals I have thought about, in addition to the proposals in that link:

 

2) I have thought of also short-turning the n35 at Hempstead during midday periods only, and having the n15 make all the stops north to Westbury, but I feel that it may cause more reliability problems with such a long route (even if the n15 would run once an hour).

 

2A) I would have the n15 running via Clinton Avenue at all times, and then running up the n35 route to Westbury in the way I have it out in the map. I don't believe that the Washington Avenue service should IMO exist, even for rush hour service. Those riders have the n40/41. Not too many people get off or board there anyways, from what I've seen. There's full buses, but almost everybody gets off at RFM, or in the vicinity. I would rather have it go up Clinton Avenue instead (that's something I would ask NICE to look into if they are to make any potential cuts; those riders can transfer to the n15 if they need it at Hempstead from the Nassau Hub Loop). During the rush, every other bus would go to Westbury. The n35 would continue running between Hempstead and Baldwin.

 

3) Alternative, the n40/41 could be kept the same as it currently is, and the loop would go down on Clinton instead from Roosevelt Field. Less buses are saved in order to allocate resources, but it is proportional to the amount of runtime shaven off the loop routes. Comments, Suggestions?

Cool Map, but But the changes to the n35 and n16 would make ridership plummet due to the loss of NCC students. They would then become hourly services.

 

The setup now is good. From Hempstead n16 goes directly to the college,then the Mall & the N35 goes directly to the mall, then the college, so they're like a ying yang, and are back ups for each other. If you miss the N16 you can just take the N35, etc. The loops being every 10 mins kind of help in that regard, but how many buses would be necessary for that level of service? .The Franklin Ave and Old Country corridors are not that busy for itra-hub traffic and neither is the NCC corridor in the evening. Thru traffic on the N22 and N24 doesn't count. 

 

The N40/41 have always been light north of Hempstead bus Terminal when I've ridden them So I can see them terminating in Hempstead and being replaced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The N40/41 have always been light north of Hempstead bus Terminal when I've ridden them So I can see them terminating in Hempstead and being replaced.

 

I think it's important for connectivity purposes to have a bus line that connects those 3 major hubs (Freeport, Hempstead, Mineola). From those areas, you can get to whole swaths of Long Island and Queens. Obviously NICE can do what they want, but at worst, I'd see them cutting back the n41 to Hempstead and keeping the n40 to Mineola. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with putting a shuttle bus or something similar in the Nassau Hub given the number of buses that go in and out of the hub all day. BUT, if NICE keeps cutting routes like the current 11 ones, it may make sense, if it's routed correctly, in that it's a close area to the depot and the routes would only run rush hours only. I'm not saying I agree with BM5's routing or that I suggest doing this, but the amount of traffic in the Nassau Hub area during rush hours is ridiculous. Then again, there is always the argument that the original n93 did fail.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Including that, yes. If anyone has any realistic ideas for NICE, pm me them with the reasoning as well and if I end up going, I'll bring it up at the meeting.

I am curious as to your views. But I have a question why is N79 ridership to WWM so bad?

 

Look how many trips per day that route had... Now compare that to the N1...

 

It wasn't because there's so much ridership on Elmont over Franklin, if that's the point you were making w/ that...

 

If you want to tell me that the n20 gets a considerable amt. of usage out of Hicksville, I would concur with that.... What it looks like you're conveying to me however is, that there is a considerable amt. of usage b/w Hicksville & (somewhere within Nassau county).... I don't agree with that, at all.... A lot of that ridership in question is going to Queens....

 

The rest of this about Nassau Hub & what not, I see as a non-issue.....

So you are saying that most ridership on the N20 in hicksville goes to queens sitting through the hot mess in queens? You sure?  I have been to those areas many on the N20 there are students maybe it's the time I was there ohh well but at least the inconsistent head ways will go away instead of 20/40 minute head ways the new ones will be every 30 minutes but without the 40+ minute delays so isn't that better? It means either get off and take N20G or LIRR if you want to avoid traffic but you may do this a few times you can tell me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with putting a shuttle bus or something similar in the Nassau Hub given the number of buses that go in and out of the hub all day. BUT, if NICE keeps cutting routes like the current 11 ones, it may make sense, if it's routed correctly, in that it's a close area to the depot and the routes would only run rush hours only. I'm not saying I agree with BM5's routing or that I suggest doing this, but the amount of traffic in the Nassau Hub area during rush hours is ridiculous. Then again, there is always the argument that the original n93 did fail.

 

The N93 failed because it didn't go anywhere useful. It literally just went from the RFM down to the Hofstra area, without connecting to Mineola or Hempstead. Not saying that his version of the N93 would be successful, but it definitely wouldn't fail as badly as the N93.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The N93 failed because it didn't go anywhere useful. It literally just went from the RFM down to the Hofstra area, without connecting to Mineola or Hempstead. Not saying that his version of the N93 would be successful, but it definitely wouldn't fail as badly as the N93.

N93 AM loop only had 1 people.

N93 PM Loop which I took only had 1 people, and only two got near Nassau Coliseum.

N93 only had 1 trip in AM and PM.

Edited by FamousNYLover

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to go ahead & commence with my plans to redraw nassau's bus network from scratch.... Some of the ideas you saw in part one will remain, some won't.... Same train of thought goes for current routes; some I'd keep, some I'd totally eliminate.... There is just too much headache trying to "repair" what veolia inherited from MTA/LIB (let's call it what it is)....

 

 

Let me get to some of these comments:

 

The n1 is the only route on Elmont Road. Franklin Ave has the n25, and at one point had the N3, N8 and N25.

 

I used to take the N25 in the mornings, the only time the N8 had riders was if it showed up first, most people used the n8 bus between Corona Ave and Hempstead Turnpike which means it was redundant, especially if the N25 was only a few mins behind it. Sometimes I'd use the N8 to Green Acres first, stop by Dunkin Donuts or McDonalds on Franklin Ave, and hop on the next N25 to Lynbrook which was less than 10 mins later. 

 

Also, when the N1, N2, and N3 all ran along Hempstead Turnpike during rush hours, the N3 always had the least people, followed by the N2, then N1 which was typically SRO. I must also add that the n1 did and sometimes still flags people along Hempstead Turnpike.

Not doubting any of this...

 

I'm still not understanding how bringing up the N3 supports Elmont rd. garnering more usage than Franklin...

(which would the converse to my little "guarantee")

 

I said I guarantee you'd get more riders along Franklin than along Elmont in regards to the proposals I made last week... You can disagree with that & that's fine, but you're so focused on what the N3 was (well, wasn't), so much so that you're not telling me about Elmont rd, specifically.... Yes the N3 ran along Franklin & yes the N3 got less ridership than the N1... That's not what I'm disagreeing with....

 

You say (Jamaica) N1's were typically SRO & I agree with that (it's still the case to this day, during the rush - see it whenever I decide to drive along Hillside coming home).... However, a large amt of that crowding is not due to so much usage along Elmont Rd - That's the notion I'm disagreeing with.... In that post you originally replied to of mine, I'm comparing Elmont rd usage (to Jamaica) & Franklin av usage (to Jamaica), not the N1 to the N3 in their totalities (which is what you're doing)....

 

The N3 was a poor representation of the amt. of riders trying to get to Jamaica.... There are way more riders xferring from off n25's to the Hillside routes, over the ridership the N3 got.....

 

Here's a map of service changes I have planned for the Nassau Hub area, 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?hl=en_US&app=mp&mid=z7P2QilxQnLY.kKGHdieIgK48

 

Essentially, there would be a loop route, and for one to get around the area, every congregates at one of the terminal and wait for these buses. This plan eliminates all n16, n40/41 service north of Hempstead, all n6x service east of Hempstead, as well as n27 service south of Roosevelt Field Mall, and n35 service to NCC. While there would be people transferring, this allows less buses to be utilized on the NCC-Hempstead segment, however still maintaining balanced loads, and riders on Westbury Blvd get double the service. Some areas will also get later service along the loop routing. At RFM and Hempstead, riders will have loop service on a combined headway of no less than 15-20 minutes at night, and more frequent throughout the day. The amount of buses saved would allow them to run this service during the respective period. This would also improve reliability on the n16, n35, and the n40/41.

 

Here are some other proposals I have thought about, in addition to the proposals in that link:

 

2) I have thought of also short-turning the n35 at Hempstead during midday periods only, and having the n15 make all the stops north to Westbury, but I feel that it may cause more reliability problems with such a long route (even if the n15 would run once an hour).

 

2A) I would have the n15 running via Clinton Avenue at all times, and then running up the n35 route to Westbury in the way I have it out in the map. I don't believe that the Washington Avenue service should IMO exist, even for rush hour service. Those riders have the n40/41. Not too many people get off or board there anyways, from what I've seen. There's full buses, but almost everybody gets off at RFM, or in the vicinity. I would rather have it go up Clinton Avenue instead (that's something I would ask NICE to look into if they are to make any potential cuts; those riders can transfer to the n15 if they need it at Hempstead from the Nassau Hub Loop). During the rush, every other bus would go to Westbury. The n35 would continue running between Hempstead and Baldwin.

 

3) Alternative, the n40/41 could be kept the same as it currently is, and the loop would go down on Clinton instead from Roosevelt Field. Less buses are saved in order to allocate resources, but it is proportional to the amount of runtime shaven off the loop routes. Comments, Suggestions?

I have never been fond of loops like this... Westchester's White plains loops is where I draw the line.... But a route that encircles main attractions to this grand an extent, to me, resembles tourist routes, not that of one within a public bus system....

 

To your credit though I guess, this is nothing like the old N93....

 

I find the Nassau Hub loop to be pretty unnecessary The n16, n35, n40/41 are all perfect the way they are and don't need any changing.

Besides, there's more demand for getting in and out of the Hub area from/to other parts of Nassau than within the Hub itself.

I agree with the gist of the post, but the current n35 is far from perfect... There's too much service south of HTC (the old, N37 portion), for starters...

 

The N40/41 have always been light north of Hempstead bus Terminal when I've ridden them So I can see them terminating in Hempstead and being replaced.

Not the case nowadays b/w Mineola & HTC, they aren't.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to go ahead & commence with my plans to redraw nassau's bus network from scratch.... Some of the ideas you saw in part one will remain, some won't.... Same train of thought goes for current routes; some I'd keep, some I'd totally eliminate.... There is just too much headache trying to "repair" what veolia inherited from MTA/LIB (let's call it what it is)....

 

 

Let me get to some of these comments:

 

Not doubting any of this...

 

I'm still not understanding how bringing up the N3 supports Elmont rd. garnering more usage than Franklin...

(which would the converse to my little "guarantee")

 

I said I guarantee you'd get more riders along Franklin than along Elmont in regards to the proposals I made last week... You can disagree with that & that's fine, but you're so focused on what the N3 was (well, wasn't), so much so that you're not telling me about Elmont rd, specifically.... Yes the N3 ran along Franklin & yes the N3 got less ridership than the N1... That's not what I'm disagreeing with....

 

You say (Jamaica) N1's were typically SRO & I agree with that (it's still the case to this day, during the rush - see it whenever I decide to drive along Hillside coming home).... However, a large amt of that crowding is not due to so much usage along Elmont Rd - That's the notion I'm disagreeing with.... In that post you originally replied to of mine, I'm comparing Elmont rd usage (to Jamaica) & Franklin av usage (to Jamaica), not the N1 to the N3 in their totalities (which is what you're doing)....

 

The N3 was a poor representation of the amt. of riders trying to get to Jamaica.... There are way more riders xferring from off n25's to the Hillside routes, over the ridership the N3 got.....

 

 

I rode the N1 from Green Acres on Friday in both directions. The on the trip to Hempstead Turnpike the bus accumulated probably 20 or so passengers we stopped at every stop on Elmont Road and picked up passengers, once we got to Hempstead Turnpike there were about 10 people waiting for the bus to head back down to Hewlett. The N1 gets ridership or NICE would have swiftly adjusted the headways, they already got rid of reverse peak Jamaica runs. 

 

When I rode to Green Acres it was the first rush hour run and many seats were taken, and more riders were picked up along Elmont Rd.

 

I used the n3 as an example because it DID run to Jamaica and it DID have less service and lower ridership than the N1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I rode the N1 from Green Acres on Friday in both directions. The on the trip to Hempstead Turnpike the bus accumulated probably 20 or so passengers we stopped at every stop on Elmont Road and picked up passengers, once we got to Hempstead Turnpike there were about 10 people waiting for the bus to head back down to Hewlett. The N1 gets ridership or NICE would have swiftly adjusted the headways, they already got rid of reverse peak Jamaica runs. 

 

When I rode to Green Acres it was the first rush hour run and many seats were taken, and more riders were picked up along Elmont Rd.

 

I used the n3 as an example because it DID run to Jamaica and it DID have less service and lower ridership than the N1.

Well your N3 example was a POOR one (since you wanna start with the petty capitalizations), as it did nothing to convey how much usage Franklin av doesn't get over Elmont rd....

 

Moving on from that....

 

As far as the n1 getting ridership... One more time, that's not being disputed...

You keep using the n1 in its totality to try to fortify your point....

 

I don't believe Elmont road in particular is consistently getting that level of ridership you had on that particular trip...

What you're describing AFAIC sounds more like n1 usage along Central.....

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well your N3 example was a POOR one (since you wanna start with the petty capitalizations), as it did nothing to convey how much usage Franklin av doesn't get over Elmont rd....

 

Moving on from that....

 

As far as the n1 getting ridership... One more time, that's not being disputed...

You keep using the n1 in its totality to try to fortify your point....

 

I don't believe Elmont road in particular is consistently getting that level of ridership you had on that particular trip...

What you're describing AFAIC sounds more like n1 usage along Central.....

Why was ridership on the N2&3 so poor compared to the N1?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well your N3 example was a POOR one (since you wanna start with the petty capitalizations), as it did nothing to convey how much usage Franklin av doesn't get over Elmont rd....

 

Moving on from that....

 

As far as the n1 getting ridership... One more time, that's not being disputed...

You keep using the n1 in its totality to try to fortify your point....

 

I don't believe Elmont road in particular is consistently getting that level of ridership you had on that particular trip...

What you're describing AFAIC sounds more like n1 usage along Central.....

My point is that bus service on Elmont Rd should not be removed (as you or someone else suggested), is utilized well.

 

The SRO conditions to/from Jamaica is a combination of Elmont Rd riders and Hempstead Turnpike riders. Most n1 ridership is between Hempstead Turnpike and Merrick Rd since most riders are going to/from the n4 and n6.

 

From my observations the overlap in ridership between those going to/from the n4 and n6 routes seems to happen along Stuart Ave. The N1 seems to stop at every stop on Elmont Road whenever I ride it.

Edited by N6 Limited

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.