BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 29, 2012 Share #301 Posted June 29, 2012 X22A: 8 Trips in each directions, departing from Outerbridge Park and Ride Departs at 5:51 AM, 6:30 AM, 7:15 AM , 7:40AM, 8:15AM, 8:45 AM, 9:15 AM, 9:40 AM Arrives At 4:40 PM, 5:00 PM, 5:25 PM, 5:45 PM, 6:00 PM, 6:30 PM,7:00 PM, 7:45 PM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 30, 2012 Share #302 Posted June 30, 2012 X22A: 8 Trips in each directions, departing from Outerbridge Park and Ride Departs at 5:51 AM, 6:30 AM, 7:15 AM , 7:40AM, 8:15AM, 8:45 AM, 9:15 AM, 9:40 AM Arrives At 4:40 PM, 5:00 PM, 5:25 PM, 5:45 PM, 6:00 PM, 6:30 PM,7:00 PM, 7:45 PM You wouldn't start them from the Park & Ride, would you? Because that's a good way to waste fuel running empty buses. You'd have to start them at Page Avenue. In any case, I think the current Park & Ride service is fine as is. I'd probably find a way to add a 7:45AM run from Tottenville, and that's about it (I don't know if I'd convert the current 7:45 local run because that would leave a 20 minute gap along Bloomingdale Road). Maybe the buses could be spaced out a little bit. For instance, you could combine the 7:19 & 7:24 buses into a 7:22 bus, and then have the 7:45 bus operate as a super-express, with a "local" bus taking its place starting near the Pleasant Plains SIR station. I guess since in the Bronx thread, we're talking about cutting down on deadheading, I think the buses that deadhead to Bayonne for S89 service should operate in service instead of running empty all the way from the Yukon Depot. For instance, the first trip out of Bayonne leaves at 4:00PM, and it takes about a half hour to get there from Marsh Avenue, so that means it would leave around 3:20 (right in time to help out with the schoolkids). Then the second trip from Bayonne leaves at 4:26, so it would leave Marsh Avenue around 3:45, again helping out with the schoolkids. Later buses would serve to provide 15 minute reverse-peak service to Bayonne (and the same pattern would operate in the AM) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted June 30, 2012 Share #303 Posted June 30, 2012 You wouldn't start them from the Park & Ride, would you? Because that's a good way to waste fuel running empty buses. You'd have to start them at Page Avenue. In any case, I think the current Park & Ride service is fine as is. I'd probably find a way to add a 7:45AM run from Tottenville, and that's about it (I don't know if I'd convert the current 7:45 local run because that would leave a 20 minute gap along Bloomingdale Road). Maybe the buses could be spaced out a little bit. For instance, you could combine the 7:19 & 7:24 buses into a 7:22 bus, and then have the 7:45 bus operate as a super-express, with a "local" bus taking its place starting near the Pleasant Plains SIR station. I guess since in the Bronx thread, we're talking about cutting down on deadheading, I think the buses that deadhead to Bayonne for S89 service should operate in service instead of running empty all the way from the Yukon Depot. For instance, the first trip out of Bayonne leaves at 4:00PM, and it takes about a half hour to get there from Marsh Avenue, so that means it would leave around 3:20 (right in time to help out with the schoolkids). Then the second trip from Bayonne leaves at 4:26, so it would leave Marsh Avenue around 3:45, again helping out with the schoolkids. Later buses would serve to provide 15 minute reverse-peak service to Bayonne (and the same pattern would operate in the AM) No, they would still orginate from Page Avenue, but that will be the time they arrive at the Park and Ride 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 30, 2012 Share #304 Posted June 30, 2012 No, they would still orginate from Page Avenue, but that will be the time they arrive at the Park and Ride Alright. But in that case (in case you were thinking otherwise), I think the runs towards the tail end of rush hour should just be diverted "local" X22s, rather than super-expresses. They would be more for backup in case somebody has to leave work later or whatever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 4, 2012 Share #305 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) No showcase for this one, there is some info on the map which I will copy and paste: S67/97 LTD route, via College Avenue. Port Richmond-St. George The S67 has been revived here, taking a new route to help ease crowding on the Victory Boulevard routes (S61, 62, 66) and to also help ease crowding on the S48, providing a second, albeit longer, option to get to St. George. MAP: https://maps.google....037978,0.077162 EDIT: Just checked the directions, the route my S67 takes and the route the S48 takes are the same length in a regular vehicle. Edited July 4, 2012 by ThrexxBus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #306 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) No showcase for this one, there is some info on the map which I will copy and paste: S67/97 LTD route, via College Avenue. Port Richmond-St. George The S67 has been revived here, taking a new route to help ease crowding on the Victory Boulevard routes (S61, 62, 66) and to also help ease crowding on the S48, providing a second, albeit longer, option to get to St. George. MAP: https://maps.google....037978,0.077162 Just checked the directions, the route my S67 takes and the route the S48 takes are the same length in a regular vehicle. The S66 is already dead enough... Just add more frequent service to the S61 and S62... Done... The S66 could run on the weekends to serve Grymes Hill but only on half hour frequencies. And having lived by and taking the X14 by Martling Avenue, that is car and express bus territory so no one is going to be using that bus in that area of West Brighton. That area is affluent so folks drive. Edited July 4, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 4, 2012 Share #307 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) The S66 is already dead enough... Just add more frequent service to the S61 and S62... Done... The S66 could run on the weekends to serve Grymes Hill but only on half hour frequencies. And having lived by and taking the X14 by Martling Avenue, that is car and express bus territory so no one is going to be using that bus in that area of West Brighton. That area is affluent so folks drive. That makes no sense, however, because the S53 gets a ton of usage along it's whole route, which includes West Brighton. I'm no expert, but after being squished on a S53 one too many times, I can't believe otherwise. Plus, the College Avenue portion can also provide an alternative to the S48. Also, just looked on Google Maps, the route actually never enters West Brighton. Edited July 4, 2012 by ThrexxBus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #308 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) That makes no sense, however, because the S53 gets a ton of usage along it's whole route, which includes West Brighton. I'm no expert, but after being squished on a S53 one too many times, I can't believe otherwise. Plus, the College Avenue portion can also provide an alternative to the S48. It makes perfect sense... The S53 goes down Broadway and quite frankly that portion of West Brighton is not heavily used by folks on he S53. Further down Broadway you have housing projects and some businesses so it is a bit more dense and "urban", thus the ridership base... The S54 stops by Martling and Manor and there is also very little usage in that portion of West Brighton as well. Why? Because it's mainly houses and folks that drive there and not much commercial stuff there so there is nothing to draw folks there. That portion that the S53 uses has the SI Zoo AND YMCA and it still isn't heavily used though it does draw some riders of course, but my point is there is nothing there to draw any riders. The express bus that runs down Martling in that area gets usage but again that's just for folks going to work. The area simply is too residential, affluent and car concentrated for a local bus to do well there as shown by the cut backs with the S54. From Wikipedia: "The area south of Delafield Avenue, Brighton Heights, continues to be home to some of West Brighton's more affluent residents including politicians, lawyers, judges and professionals." http://en.wikipedia....,_Staten_Island These folks are not going to be using the local bus and I know because I used to live in that area and frequent that part of West Brighton. A perfect example... One of my clients lives in West Brighton right near College Avenue and I used to ride the express bus with her. She's a Associate General Counsel, which is a very high position. Basically handles all of the legal issues of the company. She would not be riding the local bus. lol Aside from that College Avenue is too narrow anyway. Edited July 4, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 4, 2012 Share #309 Posted July 4, 2012 Aside from that College Avenue is too narrow anyway. That's like saying the roads in Bay Plaza Mall are too small for the Bx12 SBS, which they aren't. Go look at any image, it isn't too small. And whose to say those kind of people won't use the local bus? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #310 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) That's like saying the roads in Bay Plaza Mall are too small for the Bx12 SBS, which they aren't. Go look at any image, it isn't too small. And whose to say those kind of people won't use the local bus? Simple because they drive on the weekends... I rode with many express bus riders on Staten Island that would do everything possible not to use the local bus. They'd rather wait and get picked up than use the local bus. The local bus on Staten Island has a stigma attached to it. Edited July 4, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 4, 2012 Share #311 Posted July 4, 2012 Simple because they drive on the weekends... I rode with many express bus riders on Staten Island that would do everything possible not to use the local bus. They'd rather wait and get picked up than use the local bus. The local bus on Staten Island has a stigma attached to it. Caused by a bunch of farebeating good-for-nothings! They should cut service on those routes! (coughB46cough) See where this is going? If I wanted to touch SI local routes b/c of farebeating, you'd go crazy! How is it different with the B46? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #312 Posted July 4, 2012 No showcase for this one, there is some info on the map which I will copy and paste: S67/97 LTD route, via College Avenue. Port Richmond-St. George The S67 has been revived here, taking a new route to help ease crowding on the Victory Boulevard routes (S61, 62, 66) and to also help ease crowding on the S48, providing a second, albeit longer, option to get to St. George. MAP: https://maps.google....037978,0.077162 EDIT: Just checked the directions, the route my S67 takes and the route the S48 takes are the same length in a regular vehicle. Sorry, man, I don't think it'll work. As much as I would like to see a route running down College Avenue, I don't think it'll get the ridership to support it. While I don't think that area is "suburban" (because it's structurally as dense as anything north of Forest Avenue), VG8 is right that it is fairly "affluent" and the people likely wouldn't be using that route too much. If they need service to St. George, they'll just continue walking over to the S48. I don't like it any more than you do, but you see the way the S66 gets low ridership in that area, even though it goes to the ferry. I think the solution is to just connect the existing routes to the ferry and also bring back 7-day service. If the S54 were extended to St. George, that would provide service for those living near Manor Road, and if the S54 & S66 had 7-day service, that would pretty much serve the same customers as your S67 would. Like I said, the reason the S67 failed was because it depended too much on riders in Westerleigh for ridership. North of Forest Avenue, there are faster alternatives to St. George, and south of it, there just isn't a large ridership base. That's why I wanted it to be sent further west to cover the areas along the SIE service road. The S44 & S46 take a very long time to reach the ferry, and this would provide a better alternative for these riders. The problem is that you'd have 4 buses along Victory Blvd (all coming within minutes of each other), when there really isn't that much demand along that corridor. So that's why I suggested running the S67 to Bay Ridge instead. Yeah, riders going to St. George will just have to deal with the S44 & S46 (and being one of them, I'm definitely not happy about that, but at least I can make my way down to the S62 if need be), but at least it'll be covering that area alongside the SIE. Duplication with the S53 isn't an issue because it's a high-ridership corridor and the buses would be more evenly spaced. The only other thing I can think of would be to do a little restructuring in that area. The S57 can cover the Jewett Avenue portion of the S66. The S67 can cover Watchogue Road and also serve Grymes Hill. If you really want to, you can extend the S57 to St. George, to maintain the connection to St. George, though I really don't see it being necessary. They'll just have to make their way over to the S54 or S67 if they want ferry service. Willowbrook Road loses service, but there's not much you can do about that. (I mean, it's not even a real north-south route anyway, and they still have the S48 or S67 as far as having access to a physical route (and if they really need north-south service, they can go over to Richmond Avenue or Jewett Avenue). That makes no sense, however, because the S53 gets a ton of usage along it's whole route, which includes West Brighton. I'm no expert, but after being squished on a S53 one too many times, I can't believe otherwise. Plus, the College Avenue portion can also provide an alternative to the S48. Also, just looked on Google Maps, the route actually never enters West Brighton. A lot of people consider West Brighton to be anywhere within the 10310 zip code. So it kind of skims the West Brighton area when it goes along Martling Avenue and everything: http://www.google.com/maps?q=Staten+Island,+NY+10310&hl=en&ll=40.628546,-74.10965&spn=0.032505,0.076818&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.724817,78.662109&hnear=Staten+Island,+New+York+10310&t=m&z=14 It makes perfect sense... The S53 goes down Broadway and quite frankly that portion of West Brighton is not heavily used by folks on he S53. Further down Broadway you have housing projects and some businesses so it is a bit more dense and "urban", thus the ridership base... Just pointing it out, but the Forest Avenue stop is pretty heavily used on the S53 going towards Brooklyn. Some of it is people transferring from the S48, but you do have some people who live in the neighborhood. (But you're right that the stops near the YMCA aren't too heavily used) Aside from that College Avenue is too narrow anyway. Like I said, I don't think the route would work. But there are routes running down narrower streets on Staten Island (like the S46 for example) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 4, 2012 Share #313 Posted July 4, 2012 I see... Well, this one's going on the fantasy list... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 4, 2012 Share #314 Posted July 4, 2012 Maybe instead of making a new route why not making the S53 twice as frequent and the surrounding routes if needed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 4, 2012 Share #315 Posted July 4, 2012 Maybe instead of making a new route why not making the S53 twice as frequent and the surrounding routes if needed Just simply make the S53 twice as frequent? no, we need to tackle weekend service on the S54 & 66. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #316 Posted July 4, 2012 Maybe instead of making a new route why not making the S53 twice as frequent and the surrounding routes if needed Because ridership dips once you get north of Victory Blvd. It still gets good ridership, but the most crucial part is south of Victory Blvd. Not that my S67 would get wonderful ridership, but I figure it's better than sending it to St. George (at least while the S66 is still running there as well). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #317 Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Sorry, man, I don't think it'll work. As much as I would like to see a route running down College Avenue, I don't think it'll get the ridership to support it. While I don't think that area is "suburban" (because it's structurally as dense as anything north of Forest Avenue), VG8 is right that it is fairly "affluent" and the people likely wouldn't be using that route too much. If they need service to St. George, they'll just continue walking over to the S48. I don't like it any more than you do, but you see the way the S66 gets low ridership in that area, even though it goes to the ferry. I think the solution is to just connect the existing routes to the ferry and also bring back 7-day service. If the S54 were extended to St. George, that would provide service for those living near Manor Road, and if the S54 & S66 had 7-day service, that would pretty much serve the same customers as your S67 would. Exactly. It isn't "suburban" per se, but there aren't any real apartments there so it isn't "dense" in that regard. It's mainly homeowners, many of whom have 2 - 3 vehicles per house so they're not using the local bus. However the X14 does get good usage in that area. I'm wondering what the income level is in that area of West Brighton because my client I'm sure earns anywhere from 80 - 100k in her position serving as the legal advisor for the company. A lot of people consider West Brighton to be anywhere within the 10310 zip code. So it kind of skims the West Brighton area when it goes along Martling Avenue and everything: http://www.google.co... 10310&t=m&z=14 That's correct. That is still technically part of West Brighton. You could consider Slosson & Martling as starting by Castleton Corners and going by College Avenue is near Westerleigh. Just pointing it out, but the Forest Avenue stop is pretty heavily used on the S53 going towards Brooklyn. Some of it is people transferring from the S48, but you do have some people who live in the neighborhood. (But you're right that the stops near the YMCA aren't too heavily used) Yes, Forest Av is obvious, but I was talking about South of Forest Avenue. You know the area I'm referring to. Like I said, I don't think the route would work. But there are routes running down narrower streets on Staten Island (like the S46 for example) Yes, but this is running down the heart of a residential street... Just a disaster waiting to happen with kids and such playing on that street. Down Forest Avenue is narrow but Forest Avenue is more commercial certainly when compared to College Av. Edited July 4, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #318 Posted July 4, 2012 1) Exactly. It isn't "suburban" per se, but there aren't any real apartments there so it isn't "dense" in that regard. It's mainly homeowners, many of whom have 2 - 3 vehicles per house so they're not using the local bus. However the X14 does get good usage in that area. I'm wondering what the income level is in that area of West Brighton because my client I'm sure earns anywhere from 80 - 100k in her position serving as the legal advisor for the company. 2) Yes, but this is running down the heart of a residential street... Just a disaster waiting to happen with kids and such playing on that street. Down Forest Avenue is narrow but Forest Avenue is more commercial certainly when compared to College Av. 1) Depending on what specific area you're talking about (over by Willowbrook Road vs. over by Manor Road), and depending on what source you're using, it's in the $80,000 area, maybe a little more. 2) Trust me, man. That S46 runs down some really narrow streets in Mariners' Harbor. I mean, with all the twists and turns it makes, that area clearly wasn't meant to have a bus running through it, but obviously with the demand, eventually something had to give. (I mean, there's no good main street you could really take between Forest Avenue & Richmond Terrace) Hell, for that matter, even South Avenue isn't that wide in that area. I mean, check this out: http://www.google.com/maps?q=union+avenue+at+brabant+street,+staten+island,+ny&hl=en&ll=40.631444,-74.15808&spn=0.000033,0.019205&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.724817,78.662109&hnear=Union+Ave+%26+Brabant+St,+Staten+Island,+Richmond,+New+York+10303&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.631628,-74.158092&panoid=nYpsE_2igYjFXHu3_MDSAA&cbp=12,180,,0,0 That's in the heart of a residential neighborhood. There have been plenty of times when two S46s tried to make that turn in opposite directions, and they have to wait for each other to pass (and when they don't, they get stuck and one of them has to back out). My point is that when absolutely necessary, a route can run down a narrow street. But like you said, there isn't a whole lot of demand here, so why bother? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #319 Posted July 4, 2012 1) Depending on what specific area you're talking about (over by Willowbrook Road vs. over by Manor Road), and depending on what source you're using, it's in the $80,000 area, maybe a little more. 2) Trust me, man. That S46 runs down some really narrow streets in Mariners' Harbor. I mean, with all the twists and turns it makes, that area clearly wasn't meant to have a bus running through it, but obviously with the demand, eventually something had to give. (I mean, there's no good main street you could really take between Forest Avenue & Richmond Terrace) Hell, for that matter, even South Avenue isn't that wide in that area. I mean, check this out: http://www.google.co...cbp=12,180,,0,0 That's in the heart of a residential neighborhood. There have been plenty of times when two S46s tried to make that turn in opposite directions, and they have to wait for each other to pass (and when they don't, they get stuck and one of them has to back out). My point is that when absolutely necessary, a route can run down a narrow street. But like you said, there isn't a whole lot of demand here, so why bother? Well same thing with the S54 down Manor Rd. My point was that with some streets you don't have a choice but to run a bus. Living in Italy, I've seen even narrower streets in Florence. This is a street in my old neighborhood... http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=675&q=via+dei+serragli+florence&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x132a5153caedcf0b:0x5c7acd1f9dcae1b0,Via+dei+Serragli,+Firenze,+Italy&gl=us&sa=X&ei=3sz0T8e9KoWO6gHboqX9Bg&ved=0CAYQ8gEwAA&oi=local_group&ct=image 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VWM Posted July 4, 2012 Share #320 Posted July 4, 2012 Even though ridership wasn't there, the x18/20 had to be really handy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #321 Posted July 4, 2012 Well same thing with the S54 down Manor Rd. My point was that with some streets you don't have a choice but to run a bus. Living in Italy, I've seen even narrower streets in Florence. This is a street in my old neighborhood... http://maps.google.c..._group&ct=image All I can say is "Holy crap". The only area that comes remotely close to that on SI would be S76 running down those one-way streets in Oakwood Beach (and they cut the route back for that particular reason). One double-parked car or something and you're screwed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 4, 2012 Share #322 Posted July 4, 2012 Even though ridership wasn't there, the x18/20 had to be really handy... The X20 paralleled a whole bunch of other routes, so that really wasn't necessary to keep. The X18 actually did get decent ridership, believe it or not. I heard ridership in the morning was pretty good, but afternoon ridership wasn't so good (and that was reflected in the frequencies) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 5, 2012 Share #323 Posted July 5, 2012 All I can say is "Holy crap". The only area that comes remotely close to that on SI would be S76 running down those one-way streets in Oakwood Beach (and they cut the route back for that particular reason). One double-parked car or something and you're screwed. I showed that street because two buses run down that street and you literally have to move to the side of the sidewalk when you're walking because of the mirrors on the buses that jet outward. I was always amazed seeing buses come down that street, but they do it. The two buses by me were the 36 and 37. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 5, 2012 Share #324 Posted July 5, 2012 My alternate proposal with the S67 (sending it to St. George instead of Brooklyn): https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214504384267441423605.0004c40c845cea7c9a00a&msa=0&ll=40.627112,-74.126816&spn=0.070354,0.109692 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted July 5, 2012 Share #325 Posted July 5, 2012 All I can say is "Holy crap". The only area that comes remotely close to that on SI would be S76 running down those one-way streets in Oakwood Beach (and they cut the route back for that particular reason). One double-parked car or something and you're screwed. Well At least those buses are not running in both ways on those narrow streets in Florence. Because of it did, there would be a lot of complaints now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.