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FamousNYLover

Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

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Well you're right about the S54 but I still think that North-South service needs to be kept somehow as many North-South routes on SI have been reduced over the last few years, hence why the extension to the ferry would be a good idea. The route isn't that long to begin with and it could help speed up the Victory Blvd lines since the folks that walk from Manor Rd over to Victory to get to the ferry could have a direct route with the S54.

 

As for the S46 I don't see how it could be that expensive to operate overnight anyway. It's not like the (MTA) is giving the S46 tons of overnight service unless I'm missing something. Most SI buses that serve the ferry run every hour or so anyway overnight, so you can't get any stingier than that. Aside from the ridership factor on the S46, it also serves a different ridership base than the S48 and Castleon Avenue should definitely have overnight service. Folks down there are probably more dependent on bus service than folks along certain parts of Forest Avenue to a degree.

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Well you're right about the S54 but I still think that North-South service needs to be kept somehow as many North-South routes on SI have been reduced over the last few years, hence why the extension to the ferry would be a good idea. The route isn't that long to begin with and it could help speed up the Victory Blvd lines since the folks that walk from Manor Rd over to Victory to get to the ferry could have a direct route with the S54.

 

As for the S46 I don't see how it could be that expensive to operate overnight anyway. It's not like the (MTA) is giving the S46 tons of overnight service unless I'm missing something. Most SI buses that serve the ferry run every hour or so anyway overnight, so you can't get any stingier than that. Aside from the ridership factor on the S46, it also serves a different ridership base than the S48 and Castleon Avenue should definitely have overnight service. Folks down there are probably more dependent on bus service than folks along certain parts of Forest Avenue to a degree.

 

Yeah, I agree that it should be kept and extended to St. George somehow (whether it's through a combination with the S42 or a straight shot down Richmond Terrace). It's just that I don't think it should serve Great Kills, except maybe during rush hour (like I said, I'd give them the S79A)

 

As for the S46, overnight service in general is expensive to operate. That's all I was saying. I mean, between 1AM and 5AM, it gets 168 riders, but that's spread out over 10 buses, so that's 16-17 people per bus, throughout the whole route. I mean, during the day, costs are around $2 per passenger, so at night, they're probably around $5 per passenger or so, so it would save money, but it just wouldn't be worth it considering how many passengers would be inconvenienced.

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Yeah, I agree that it should be kept and extended to St. George somehow (whether it's through a combination with the S42 or a straight shot down Richmond Terrace). It's just that I don't think it should serve Great Kills, except maybe during rush hour (like I said, I'd give them the S79A)

 

What good would the S79A do for someone who needs service to the North Shore???

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What good would the S79A do for someone who needs service to the North Shore???

 

First of all, I think demand is greater to the points I described (ETC, SI Mall, shopping on Hylan Blvd, etc). So the riders who would be inconvenienced would be far outweighed by those who would get better service.

 

Second of all, you could just take the S79A to the S44, S59, or S89. Hell, you even get access to the S61 as a bonus.

 

You have to admit that there's far more available along Richmond Avenue than there is along Manor Road (plus the destinations I described)

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First of all, I think demand is greater to the points I described (ETC, SI Mall, shopping on Hylan Blvd, etc). So the riders who would be inconvenienced would be far outweighed by those who would get better service.

 

Second of all, you could just take the S79A to the S44, S59, or S89. Hell, you even get access to the S61 as a bonus.

 

You have to admit that there's far more available along Richmond Avenue than there is along Manor Road (plus the destinations I described)

 

I'm not questioning all of that. I'm trying to understand where would the S79A go???

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I'm not questioning all of that. I'm trying to understand where would the S79A go???

 

The same as the regular S79 except it would use Giffords Lane instead of Richmond Avenue.

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The same as the regular S79 except it would use Giffords Lane instead of Richmond Avenue.

 

 

So then how does the S79 help someone that needs the North Shore???

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So then how does the S79 help someone that needs the North Shore???

 

I already explained how. It gives them more connections to the Richmond Avenue routes and the S61. It takes away a one-seat ride, but what's the big deal? More people would benefit from it than the current pattern. I've rode along that portion a few times before, and usually there were only like 2 other riders on the bus.

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In regards to the routing of the S53, S79 and S93 Limited to 59th Street, northbound, the three routes will take Dahlgreen Place to 86th Street, left on 86th Street to Fourth Avenue, then right on Fourth Avenue to 63rd Street, left on 63rd Street, right on Third Avenue, right on 58th Street and right on Fourth Avenue. Buses will use the block between 59th and 60th Streets on Fourth Avenue to layover. Then on the return trip to Staten Island buses will stay on Fourth Avenue to 86th Street, left on 86th Street to Gaitling Place, right on Gaitling Place and then follows regular routing.

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I already explained how. It gives them more connections to the Richmond Avenue routes and the S61. It takes away a one-seat ride, but what's the big deal? More people would benefit from it than the current pattern. I've rode along that portion a few times before, and usually there were only like 2 other riders on the bus.

 

lol... Well additional connections are always big deals in my book esp. depending on when you have to make them. It's not like they try to link up transfers on SI in most cases anyway, so yeah it's a big deal IMO. That is no reason to not run the S54 on weekends.

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In regards to the routing of the S53, S79 and S93 Limited to 59th Street, northbound, the three routes will take Dahlgreen Place to 86th Street, left on 86th Street to Fourth Avenue, then right on Fourth Avenue to 63rd Street, left on 63rd Street, right on Third Avenue, right on 58th Street and right on Fourth Avenue. Buses will use the block between 59th and 60th Streets on Fourth Avenue to layover. Then on the return trip to Staten Island buses will stay on Fourth Avenue to 86th Street, left on 86th Street to Gaitling Place, right on Gaitling Place and then follows regular routing.

 

Why 4th Avenue? Why can't they just get on the BQE for one exit and then get off at 65th Street? If people want the (R), they could get it at 59th Street anyway.

 

lol... Well additional connections are always big deals in my book esp. depending on when you have to make them. It's not like they try to link up transfers on SI in most cases anyway, so yeah it's a big deal IMO. That is no reason to not run the S54 on weekends.

 

Running the S54 to Eltingville has nothing to do with it running on weekends.

 

And if you want to talk about connections, how about S54 riders trying to get to the Eltingville Transit Center? You really think they time the S54 to link up with the S74? How about if they're going to the mall? They have to take the S54 (in the opposite direction that they're headed) to the S59/79/89, or take the SIR or S74 to Richmond Avenue and then take a bus up from there. How about if they're going shopping on Hylan Blvd (in which case they probably have bags and they have to make the transfer)? They have to run across Hylan Blvd to transfer to the S78/79.

 

You can't give everybody a one-seat ride. Giving them the S79A would benefit them more than the S54 does.

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I don't want those routes being caught in morning traffic on the bridge inbound. It's bad enough the expresses have to deal with it for the most part, so let the locals serve the regular streets. Besides with the buses serving Fourth Avenue that at the very least gives riders options of not having to deal with the ®otten during certain times of the day, e.g. going back downstairs to go back upstairs.

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In regards to Via's statement about local service on Hylan Boulevard, here's how I will break it down:

 

Rush hours: S78 operates every 10-15 minutes like it does now. Service operates to Tottenville. S79 Limited via Richmond Avenue operates every 8-10 minutes, S79A operates every 15 minutes. No S79 Local service via Richmond Avenue at this time.

Middays and evenings: S78 operates every 20 minutes, terminates at Luten Avenue/Eylandt Street. S79 Local via Richmond Avenue operates every 30 minutes, S79A via Giffords Lane operates every 30 minutes. No S79 Limited service.

Weekends: S78 to Luten Avenue operates every 20 minutes. S79 Local via Richmond Avenue operates every 30 minutes, S79A operates every 20-30 minutes.

Late nights: S79 Local via Richmond Avenue operates every 45 minutes.

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I don't want those routes being caught in morning traffic on the bridge inbound. It's bad enough the expresses have to deal with it for the most part, so let the locals serve the regular streets. Besides with the buses serving Fourth Avenue that at the very least gives riders options of not having to deal with the ®otten during certain times of the day, e.g. going back downstairs to go back upstairs.

 

 

I actually don't think traffic is too bad in the morning. When there's no construction, traffic actually moves fairly smoothly. I think it actually gets worse north of 65th Street, since you have the Belt Parkway merging in and everything, so it would get off just in time. I have family members who take the express bus down that stretch fairly regularly, and they say it's usually pretty smooth.

 

As for Fourth Avenue, I don't really think there are a whole lot of passengers along that stretch of 4th Avenue going to Staten Island. If they're going that short a distance, they might be better off taking the B63 down to 86th Street and walking a couple of blocks, or taking the B70 to 92nd Street.

 

In regards to Via's statement about local service on Hylan Boulevard, here's how I will break it down:

 

Rush hours: S78 operates every 10-15 minutes like it does now. Service operates to Tottenville. S79 Limited via Richmond Avenue operates every 8-10 minutes, S79A operates every 15 minutes. No S79 Local service via Richmond Avenue at this time.

Middays and evenings: S78 operates every 20 minutes, terminates at Luten Avenue/Eylandt Street. S79 Local via Richmond Avenue operates every 30 minutes, S79A via Giffords Lane operates every 30 minutes. No S79 Limited service.

Weekends: S78 to Luten Avenue operates every 20 minutes. S79 Local via Richmond Avenue operates every 30 minutes, S79A operates every 20-30 minutes.

Late nights: S79 Local via Richmond Avenue operates every 45 minutes.

 

 

I don't see why you're giving Giffords Lane more service on the weekends than Richmond Avenue (No way should it run every 20-30 minutes. It should run every 30 minutes flat). I know Richmond Avenue has the S59 as well, but it's simple: You give more service where there's more demand, and the greater demand is in Eltingville than Great Kills.

 

In any case, I think the S79 should run limited at all times except middays (and late nights of course). With the buses you save by having the limited service, you could add a little service to the S59 and S78.

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Well I think the S79 limited should run all day. The line suffers terribly from bunching as it is so give Hylan Blvd limited stop service. Not only that but you have plenty of folks that have long commutes on that line. As for checkmate, no you don't just give Richmond Ave all of the service when it has enough service as it is. Don't be greedy now. That's similar to going overkill on Victory Blvd and leaving Forest Avenue and other main arteries with the crumbs or nothing. <_<

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Well I think the S79 limited should run all day. The line suffers terribly from bunching as it is so give Hylan Blvd limited stop service. Not only that but you have plenty of folks that have long commutes on that line. As for checkmate, no you don't just give Richmond Ave all of the service when it has enough service as it is. Don't be greedy now. That's similar to going overkill on Victory Blvd and leaving Forest Avenue and other main arteries with the crumbs or nothing. <_<

 

 

I know there's some debate as to where I live, but I didn't realize I lived in Eltingville. :huh:

 

Let's see, there's more demand on Richmond Avenue than Giffords Lane so it should get more service. It's as simple as that.

 

And what the hell are you talking about?????? I never said to take away service from Forest Avenue. As for going overkill, how is that going overkill if the same number of buses per hour are on the road? The only difference is that instead of being S62s, they're S93s (an tell me again, what use are those extra S62s if they don't meet the ferry?)

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I know there's some debate as to where I live, but I didn't realize I lived in Eltingville. :huh:

 

Let's see, there's more demand on Richmond Avenue than Giffords Lane so it should get more service. It's as simple as that.

 

And what the hell are you talking about?????? I never said to take away service from Forest Avenue. As for going overkill, how is that going overkill if the same number of buses per hour are on the road? The only difference is that instead of being S62s, they're S93s (an tell me again, what use are those extra S62s if they don't meet the ferry?)

 

 

Dude read what I wrote... I didn't say anything about you saying that you would take away service from Forest Avenue. I was giving a hypothetical example. Furthermore, who gives a crap where along Richmond Avenue it is. You know that just about all of Richmond Avenue is well served by transportation so don't even try it. The South Shore is growing and they need service in other areas besides Richdmond Avenue for OPTIONS, something which you yourself said you don't have since all of the friggin' buses run along Richmond Avenue.

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Dude read what I wrote... I didn't say anything about you saying that you would take away service from Forest Avenue. I was giving a hypothetical example. Furthermore, who gives a crap where along Richmond Avenue it is. You know that just about all of Richmond Avenue is well served by transportation so don't even try it. The South Shore is growing and they need service in other areas besides Richmond Avenue for OPTIONS, something which you yourself said you don't have since all of the friggin' buses run along Richmond Avenue.

 

Well yeah, because the planners SI were too stupid to connect the streets properly, so we're left with a bunch of little stubs of main streets that we can’t use for bus service. Yeah, east-west service we could manage to get in another route, but there’s no good path for north-south buses to take. In order to provide a good connection, the bus route would have to cross the SIE, and the only two points to do it at are Richmond Avenue and South Avenue, which already have service. Yeah, you could divert the S44 or S59 down, but then you make it more inconvenient for the passengers because the frequency of each individual line is halved (instead of going to the stop and waiting for the first bus that comes, now you have to time yourself for a specific bus. And don’t go bringing up BusTime because you don’t start playing with the routing for the only reason that now you can track the buses, especially since only 10% of the riders use BusTime)

In any case, the point is that if all the demand is on Richmond Avenue, that’s where the service should be. It’s like complaining that the B46 runs much more frequently than the B7: The demand is on Utica Avenue, so that’s why the buses run the way they do (I’m not going to get into a debate as to whether the B7 should have better service or whatever, but I’m saying that’s why the B46 runs like 5 times more frequently than the B7). You’d have a case if buses were running empty down Richmond Avenue and crowded along Giffords Lane, but that’s not the case. Down there, Richmond Avenue is the only corridor with significant ridership.

And I never said I’d cut the service completely. Even if the S79A ran every 30 minutes, they’re no worse off than they are now (or should I say, before the cuts because obviously now they don’t have weekend service).

And my main gripe wasn’t that he reduced it, but by how much he reduced it. Right now on the weekends, the S79 runs every 8-10 minutes, and he’d make it run every 30. And since it would basically be impossible to space buses out with the S59 (because it runs every 20 minutes), you could end up with good 15-20 minute gaps, whereas now the worst is an 8-10 minute gap.

What I’d do is have the service as follows:

Rush hours:

S78 every 15 minutes to Arden Heights (S59 covers Tottenville)

S79 limited every 10 minutes

S79A every 20 minutes

Middays & Evenings:

S78 every 15 minutes to Arden Heights (I think most runs right now go to Tottenville, so I’d keep the 15 minute headways to Arden Heights, unless they needed something to make it cost-neutral in which case I’d cut it back to every 30 going to Arden Heights)

S79 local every 20 minutes

S79A every 30 minutes

Weekends:

S78 every 15 minutes to Richmond Avenue and 30 minutes to Arden Heights

S79 limited every 15 minutes

S79A every 30 minutes (20 minutes during rush hour on weekends)

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Well, the S79 local currently has 20 minute headways during midday hours, but I like your setup.

 

 

The thing is that I didn't want to raise the headway to 30 minutes because that would lead to large gaps in service along Richmond Avenue. I'd kind of hope that the additional ridership from Great Kills would sort of provide justification to run that extra S79 service.

 

I don't like running buses that meet the ferry every 20 minutes, but if need be, I'd have the S78 run every 20 minutes during that time frame, just to be able to keep the S79 at 20 minute headways. That would mean service for Hylan Blvd riders would remain roughly the same as it is today.

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Well yeah, because the planners SI were too stupid to connect the streets properly, so we're left with a bunch of little stubs of main streets that we can’t use for bus service. Yeah, east-west service we could manage to get in another route, but there’s no good path for north-south buses to take. In order to provide a good connection, the bus route would have to cross the SIE, and the only two points to do it at are Richmond Avenue and South Avenue, which already have service. Yeah, you could divert the S44 or S59 down, but then you make it more inconvenient for the passengers because the frequency of each individual line is halved (instead of going to the stop and waiting for the first bus that comes, now you have to time yourself for a specific bus. And don’t go bringing up BusTime because you don’t start playing with the routing for the only reason that now you can track the buses, especially since only 10% of the riders use BusTime)

 

In any case, the point is that if all the demand is on Richmond Avenue, that’s where the service should be. It’s like complaining that the B46 runs much more frequently than the B7: The demand is on Utica Avenue, so that’s why the buses run the way they do (I’m not going to get into a debate as to whether the B7 should have better service or whatever, but I’m saying that’s why the B46 runs like 5 times more frequently than the B7). You’d have a case if buses were running empty down Richmond Avenue and crowded along Giffords Lane, but that’s not the case. Down there, Richmond Avenue is the only corridor with significant ridership.

 

And I never said I’d cut the service completely. Even if the S79A ran every 30 minutes, they’re no worse off than they are now (or should I say, before the cuts because obviously now they don’t have weekend service).

 

 

What a load of crap... The demand isn't necessarily on Richmond Avenue, but rather all of the buses run along Richmond Avenue. Richmond Avenue has enough service anyway and perhaps if buses ran on other streets more ridership could be obtained and you can have the buses better used instead of having one bus packed like a sardine can and then two buses following practically empty. If anything it gives the (MTA) an excuse to cut service.

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Why are you not accountng for S79 SBS?

 

 

Because Checkmate disagrees with the (MTA) and feels the S79 does not need SBS service. Instead i think checkmate has proopsed 6-day a week (Monday-Saturday)full time S79 limited stop service.

 

PS Threxx have you been to SI before on a bus? Not being rude just curious.

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What a load of crap... The demand isn't necessarily on Richmond Avenue, but rather all of the buses run along Richmond Avenue. Richmond Avenue has enough service anyway and perhaps if buses ran on other streets more ridership could be obtained and you can have the buses better used instead of having one bus packed like a sardine can and then two buses following practically empty. If anything it gives the (MTA) an excuse to cut service.

 

 

So? That doesn't mean it should be cut that far. You're going from 9 buses per hour down to 5 (and they might not even be spaced out properly). Do you really think service should be cut by almost 50% on that portion?

 

Because Checkmate disagrees with the (MTA) and feels the S79 does not need SBS service. Instead i think checkmate has proopsed 6-day a week (Monday-Saturday)full time S79 limited stop service.

 

PS Threxx have you been to SI before on a bus? Not being rude just curious.

 

 

I proposed it for 7-day service, and during the early morning and weekends, it would run local. Keep in mind that I still want bus lanes and TSP, but just not off-board fare payment.

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So? That doesn't mean it should be cut that far. You're going from 9 buses per hour down to 5 (and they might not even be spaced out properly). Do you really think service should be cut by almost 50% on that portion?

 

 

 

I proposed it for 7-day service, and during the early morning and weekends, it would run local. Keep in mind that I still want bus lanes and TSP, but just not off-board fare payment.

 

 

So basically a Q44/Q53 7 day a week limited i.e they run 630am-10pm Monday-Saturday and 8am-930pm sundays is what your propose for the S79 right?

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