Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

[qjtransitmaster]

well the true plan is to keep it at ceasars bay But if demand arises SI becomes a posibility. Yes I do have plans of my own but the ones involving NYC are still being perfected I still have much to learn.

 

lol... I'd go further and say that his stance is based on pure ignorance and rhetoric...

Really like your stance on express buses?

 

No... it's the bafoon thinking Grymes Hill residents want to go to Bay Ridge.... they have their little community for a reason...

bafoon really kid get a life. If insults are all your good at you need to just not bother speaking.

[Turbo19]

well the true plan is to keep it at ceasars bay But if demand arises SI becomes a posibility. Yes I do have plans of my own but the ones involving NYC are still being perfected I still have much to learn.

I have nothing more to say in this particular discussion.

 

Also, if you think we're critical of your proposals/plans, consider presenting them to the MTA directly. I'm sure they will be much more welcoming,

[qjtransitmaster]

I have nothing more to say in this particular discussion.

 

Also, if you think we're critical of your proposals/plans, consider presenting them to the MTA directly. I'm sure they will be much more welcoming,

I haven't completed them yet. I had to make modifications to the SI part due to learning about patterns from guys like checkmate. I will come with a completed plan soon but most are interborough and can't be understood fully from just one borough. Some tie into other plans I have yet to finish I am in school now. I spent most of my time in NJ recently.

[B35 via Church]

When I read the B2 idea, I was thinking: wth?

I don't mind extending the B2 (to the Rockaways, Queens), but to SI? Who's demanding a line like that?

It's his way of "connecting the dots"; serving multiple markets w/ one bus route.... I don't agree w/ his train of thought with that in this particular case though.....

 

well the true plan is to keep it at ceasars bay But if demand arises SI becomes a posibility.

Yes I do have plans of my own but the ones involving NYC are still being perfected I still have much to learn.

Ok, but Would it be too much to ask to show that you have "much to learn" - By not blurting out ideas you're unsure of (or as you put it, aren't "perfected")? That is not a knock or a diss or anything like that either......

 

They say a closed mouth don't get fed, but loose lips also sink ships......

^^ (+ rep to the first person that can explain what I mean by that)

[Culver]

I have to say, the B2 extension and the Staten Island routes confuse me. If one wants a St. George to Bay Ridge route, there are routes between Narrows and St. George that can be used that already have buses on them. Extending buses to 59 St just doesn't make sense because you're trying to replace the "unreliable" R with buses that run on a highway or 4 Ave to 59 St; you *will* encounter traffic there. Easiest thing is [insert northeast SI shore route to follow] from St. George to SIE/Narrows/whatever and then run to Bay Ridge. Short, quick route, and then hope people actually use it.

[qjtransitmaster]

I have to say, the B2 extension and the Staten Island routes confuse me. If one wants a St. George to Bay Ridge route, there are routes between Narrows and St. George that can be used that already have buses on them. Extending buses to 59 St just doesn't make sense because you're trying to replace the "unreliable" R with buses that run on a highway or 4 Ave to 59 St; you *will* encounter traffic there. Easiest thing is [insert northeast SI shore route to follow] from St. George to SIE/Narrows/whatever and then run to Bay Ridge. Short, quick route, and then hope people actually use it.

In the B2 extension B2 skips bay ridge. Technically it links to the for faster coney island service. Ect. Nope culver a route like that from st george to bay ridge won't get that much as people already transfer to S79/53 so that is sort of redundant which is why I chose a line like that to be express yo CI or merged with B2 via ave p to belt or both but with different routes to St george. But leaning towards not bothering with brooklyn to st george unless it went to somewhere other than bay ridge as S79/53/93 serve that area very well.

[Culver]

In the B2 extension B2 skips bay ridge. Technically it links to the for faster coney island service. Ect. Nope culver a route like that from st george to bay ridge won't get that much as people already transfer to S79/53 so that is sort of redundant which is why I chose a line like that to be express yo CI or merged with B2 via ave p to belt or both but with different routes to St george. But leaning towards not bothering with brooklyn to st george unless it went to somewhere other than bay ridge as S79/53/93 serve that area very well.

???

The point isn't to specifically serve Bay Ridge for those routes. That's just a transfer point to Brooklyn buses and the . The reason the S83 will (when they eventually add it) still terminate there is to connect with Brooklyn buses and the . Any St. George route will terminate there, too, if the MTA ever gets that far.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Culver

[qjtransitmaster]

???

The point isn't to specifically serve Bay Ridge for those routes. That's just a transfer point to Brooklyn buses and the . The reason the S83 will (when they eventually add it) still terminate there is to connect with Brooklyn buses and the . Any St. George route will terminate there, too, if the MTA ever gets that far.

bay ridge is not good enough as a transfer point. That is why the st george line in my version goes direct to coney island or cesars shopping center then sheepshead bay to kings plaza in another option if warranted. S83 is a LTD of S53 so yes it must go to bay ridge. The is not good enough it sucks harder than a porn star blowjob.

[Metro CSW]

S83 is a LTD of S53 so yes it must go to bay ridge.

Lasted I checked, it was S93.....

[Turbo19]

They say a closed mouth don't get fed, but loose lips also sink ships......

^^ (+ rep to the first person that can explain what I mean by that)

I understood you perfectly.

 

In simpler terms: Loose lips = big mouth, talking about everything/one. Sinking ships = relationships, (family, friends, & others).

 

Basically, if you don't shut up you are going to end hurting people, or in QJ's case himself.

 

 

 

Lasted I checked, it was S93.....

And it's doing fairly well.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Really like your stance on express buses?

lol... Now that's cute... I've been riding them for years.... My stance on express buses is they should make every effort to keep them before canning them and that's not just for express buses, but with every service.  Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Culver]

bay ridge is not good enough as a transfer point. That is why the st george line in my version goes direct to coney island or cesars shopping center then sheepshead bay to kings plaza in another option if warranted. S83 is a LTD of S53 so yes it must go to bay ridge. The is not good enough it sucks harder than a porn star blowjob.

But nobody would take such a route. Why are you replicating much faster subway service with a bus? There's a reason all SI buses end at 86 St: even with occasional waits, R to N > any damn bus to 59 St or anywhere else. Again, I could in theory use a 65 St bus that goes to SI, but you couldn't pay me to do so; the N will be faster 99 times out of 100.

[B35 via Church]

I have to say, the B2 extension and the Staten Island routes confuse me. If one wants a St. George to Bay Ridge route, there are routes between Narrows and St. George that can be used that already have buses on them.

 

Extending buses to 59 St just doesn't make sense because you're trying to replace the "unreliable" R with buses that run on a highway or 4 Ave to 59 St; you *will* encounter traffic there.

 

Easiest thing is [insert northeast SI shore route to follow] from St. George to SIE/Narrows/whatever and then run to Bay Ridge. Short, quick route, and then hope people actually use it.

Are you trying to say that one of the current SI routes that serves areas north of narrows towards the ferry should be diverted to Bay Ridge?

 

Although I wouldn't have any service from SI running up to 59th st subway either, the problem with what you're suggesting is that the current SI routes that serves St. George also have to serve areas south of narrows.....

 

.....But leaning towards not bothering with brooklyn to st george unless it went to somewhere other than bay ridge as S79/53/93 serve that area very well.

That's the thing w/ a Brooklyn-St. George route; You'd have to try to figure out what sect of riders on the Brooklyn end (including xfers off other modes) would benefit from a 1 seat ride to which part of SI & Who on the SI end would benefit from a 1 seat ride to which part of Brooklyn - outside of getting SI'ers to the subway!

 

^^ In laymen's, what part of Brooklyn are SI-ers clamoring/demanding service to - enough to have a route be introduced?

To be honest, I don't even have an answer for that one..... But I do not think for one second (as GC pointed out) that Marine Park & Midwood patrons, etc. (areas around the B2 & Av. P) would utilize the SI service you're proposing..... Wasted resources IMHO.....

 

???

The point isn't to specifically serve Bay Ridge for those routes. That's just a transfer point to Brooklyn buses and the . The reason the S83 will (when they eventually add it) still terminate there is to connect with Brooklyn buses and the . Any St. George route will terminate there, too, if the MTA ever gets that far.

Yeah, the S83 will be to the S53 what the current S79 SBS was to the old S79 - an attempt at a time saving method for the avg. rider....

 

bay ridge is not good enough as a transfer point. That is why the st george line in my version goes direct to coney island or cesars shopping center then sheepshead bay to kings plaza in another option if warranted. S83 is a LTD of S53 so yes it must go to bay ridge. The is not good enough it sucks harder than a porn star blowjob.

I don't necessarily side w/ this, but try thinking about running a B39 like service b/w SI & 59th st then - If the issue is to simply get SI riders to the ... I dunno, something like a "S79a" or something that would run b/w Hylan/Clove & 59th st subway....

 

Lasted I checked, it was S93.....

You're right, but he's referring to an "S83" proposal that's a LTD of 100% of the current S53 route....

(He did make it sound like the S83 was real though... lol)

 

I understood you perfectly.

 

In simpler terms: Loose lips = big mouth, talking about everything/one. Sinking ships = relationships, (family, friends, & others).

 

Basically, if you don't shut up you are going to end hurting people, or in QJ's case himself.

Yeah, I'm a stickler for idioms/sayings.....

 

What you state was just one half it....+rep anyway...

 

In total, I'm saying that It's not wrong for QJT to ask questions about routes/areas/riderbases he doesn't know much about - But in the same token, the more he runs off at the mouth about things he doesn't know much about, it's gonna bite him in the behind... Which is one of the main gripes people have w/ him on this forum....

 

My problem with him is that he's more apt to making statements like he knows what he's talking about, instead of asking questions about the things he's unsure of.... Well that, and needing to learn to explain himself better (which even he's admitted to).....

[Culver]

B35, I'm saying it would be a new route that would just follow one of those northeast shore routes, not a diversion of a current route. Sorry for not clarifying.

[B35 via Church]

B35, I'm saying it would be a new route that would just follow one of those northeast shore routes, not a diversion of a current route. Sorry for not clarifying.

Gotcha.

[North Shore Line]

This is the proposal released in 2011 by the MTA's North Shore Busway study for those wondering:

 

[North Shore Line]

In the map above:

 

- S40 and S90 Eliminated

- S46 and S96 to Goethals Road North, West Shore Plaza service replaced by S99.

- S53 and S83 Limited to Mariner's Harbor-South Avenue via Richmond Terrace

- S57 and S59 to St George via Richmond Terrace

- S99 to Teleport and West Shore Plaza via Forest Avenue

- X21 Teleport and Manhattan

 

If it wasn't known before, it is now known after sandy that over 50% of the North Shore right of way was actually in Zone A (and still is) meaning that the MTA may have to go with the bus option! A good portion of the line or busway would have been submerged in water entirely. My idea for that replacement was to run a new S44 Select Bus Service with two routes, one to West Shore Plaza via the S46 after Walker/Morningstar and the main route to SI Mall. That is my idea though and any plan to improve service on Staten Island is a good one.

 

 

About the bus option above, riders east of Port Richmond would be very happy to have two routes to St George on Richmond Terrace while Mariner's Harbor would only have the S46. How is that an improvement over what exists now? The plan would also erase the S46 from South Avenue and send it to Goethals Road like the S40. The S99 would introduce bi-directional limited service to Forest Avenue for the first time and give a faster ride than the S46 to the West Shore. The X21 to Teleport would also be an excellent route if it serves CSI and the stops along the expressway backing up the X10.

[checkmatechamp13]

In the map above:

 

- S40 and S90 Eliminated

- S46 and S96 to Goethals Road North, West Shore Plaza service replaced by S99.

- S53 and S83 Limited to Mariner's Harbor-South Avenue via Richmond Terrace

- S57 and S59 to St George via Richmond Terrace

- S99 to Teleport and West Shore Plaza via Forest Avenue

- X21 Teleport and Manhattan

 

If it wasn't known before, it is now known after sandy that over 50% of the North Shore right of way was actually in Zone A (and still is) meaning that the MTA may have to go with the bus option! A good portion of the line or busway would have been submerged in water entirely. My idea for that replacement was to run a new S44 Select Bus Service with two routes, one to West Shore Plaza via the S46 after Walker/Morningstar and the main route to SI Mall. That is my idea though and any plan to improve service on Staten Island is a good one.

 

About the bus option above, riders east of Port Richmond would be very happy to have two routes to St George on Richmond Terrace while Mariner's Harbor would only have the S46. How is that an improvement over what exists now? The plan would also erase the S46 from South Avenue and send it to Goethals Road like the S40. The S99 would introduce bi-directional limited service to Forest Avenue for the first time and give a faster ride than the S46 to the West Shore. The X21 to Teleport would also be an excellent route if it serves CSI and the stops along the expressway backing up the X10.

 

Hold up.

 

That map above shows the S40/90 stopping at the "Arlington Transit Center". They can't stop there if they're eliminated. (Which would eliminate the one quick link from Mariners' Harbor to St. George. You can add all the S96 service you want, but it's not going to be faster than the S40).

 

That S99 is only going reverse-peak. It isn't "replacing" anything.

 

That X21 isn't stopping at CSI. It's only stopping along South Avenue, reverse-peak.

 

+SBS+ isn't going to speed the S44 up enough to make it a suitable replacement for the North Shore Rail Line. (It isn't even that slow to begin with, but no matter which way you slice it, a rail line would be quicker).

[North Shore Line]

I'm not trying to debate anything checkmate , we both realized how that's the only bus improvement plan that the MTA ever came up with for the north shore since the 1990s and how rediculous a couple of the proposals are and also how they do not cover any new areas like the one you mention. There are also a few proposals there that should already be in place regardless of the results of the study.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

In the map above:

 

- S40 and S90 Eliminated

- S46 and S96 to Goethals Road North, West Shore Plaza service replaced by S99.

- S53 and S83 Limited to Mariner's Harbor-South Avenue via Richmond Terrace

- S57 and S59 to St George via Richmond Terrace

- S99 to Teleport and West Shore Plaza via Forest Avenue

- X21 Teleport and Manhattan

 

If it wasn't known before, it is now known after sandy that over 50% of the North Shore right of way was actually in Zone A (and still is) meaning that the MTA may have to go with the bus option! A good portion of the line or busway would have been submerged in water entirely. My idea for that replacement was to run a new S44 Select Bus Service with two routes, one to West Shore Plaza via the S46 after Walker/Morningstar and the main route to SI Mall. That is my idea though and any plan to improve service on Staten Island is a good one.

 

 

About the bus option above, riders east of Port Richmond would be very happy to have two routes to St George on Richmond Terrace while Mariner's Harbor would only have the S46. How is that an improvement over what exists now? The plan would also erase the S46 from South Avenue and send it to Goethals Road like the S40. The S99 would introduce bi-directional limited service to Forest Avenue for the first time and give a faster ride than the S46 to the West Shore. The X21 to Teleport would also be an excellent route if it serves CSI and the stops along the expressway backing up the X10.

Wishful thinking, but I don't see many improvements being made on the North Shore for bus service. It is clear that the South Shore currently has the (MTA)'s ear when it comes to bus improvements on Staten Island.  There have been no express bus improvements on any of the North Shore routes outside of the X10, and the S53 continues to burst at the seams with no relief in sight.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Culver]

Wishful thinking, but I don't see many improvements being made on the North Shore for bus service. It is clear that the South Shore currently has the (MTA)'s ear when it comes to bus improvements on Staten Island.  There have been no express bus improvements on any of the North Shore routes outside of the X10, and the S53 continues to burst at the seams with no relief in sight.

Those poor 3G's are gonna get beat to shit with the 3rd world roads in Staten Island and the pack crowds the S53 gets.

[North Shore Line]

Wishful thinking, but I don't see many improvements being made on the North Shore for bus service. It is clear that the South Shore currently has the (MTA)'s ear when it comes to bus improvements on Staten Island.  There have been no express bus improvements on any of the North Shore routes outside of the X10, and the S53 continues to burst at the seams with no relief in sight.

Eh, South Shore bus service isn't anything to write home about especially midday service which is worst than north shore service at midday.

 

Those poor 3G's are gonna get beat to shit with the 3rd world roads in Staten Island and the pack crowds the S53 gets.

Castleton has been taking care of them, the 3gs are the best local fleet in the MTA right now.

[qjtransitmaster]

Hold up.

 

That map above shows the S40/90 stopping at the "Arlington Transit Center". They can't stop there if they're eliminated. (Which would eliminate the one quick link from Mariners' Harbor to St. George. You can add all the S96 service you want, but it's not going to be faster than the S40).

 

That S99 is only going reverse-peak. It isn't "replacing" anything.

 

That X21 isn't stopping at CSI. It's only stopping along South Avenue, reverse-peak.

 

+SBS+ isn't going to speed the S44 up enough to make it a suitable replacement for the North Shore Rail Line. (It isn't even that slow to begin with, but no matter which way you slice it, a rail line would be quicker).

So S99 will be reversed S98 that is actually good now you get bidirectional service S98/99. But North shore can use an upgrade I finally came up with a potential SI routing for the X33 PM me for details and how it relates to other regions.

 

I think X30 and X14 should become full time with new reverse peak and midday service. But later night trips won't be added yet. The non rush hour and reverse would run as a huge giant loop counterclockwise and clockwise. First line will start south ave and down forest ave making X30 stops bus with X14 designation then it continues via X14 routing timed with x1 for downtown access transfers for midtown express direct to midtown of via downtown then FDR follows it's route then as soon as it enters manhattan it will have the X30 designation to 57th then via 5th ave from there making X30 stops then back to SI as X30 but in SI it has x14 designation picking people up while dropping off X30 people. This is counterclockwise routing. Clockwise it does it in reverse but enters SI with X30 designation while emptying out X14 riders when it's on forest ave it picks up midtown riders then it enters manhattan with X14 designation via x30 manhattan routing to 57th or short turned and directly to 5th ave from 42nd it has X14 designation to SI. 

 

This line has high turnover due to it's structure. It's like an off-peak partial S98 in SI basically. Forest ave gains midday LTD stop service well sort of. X30 and X14 will have a combined schedule. To represent this.

Edited February 5, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[North Shore Line]

So S99 will be reversed S98 that is actually good now you get bidirectional service S98/99. But North shore can use an upgrade I finally came up with a potential SI routing for the X33 PM me for details and how it relates to other regions.

 

I think X30 and X14 should become full time with new reverse peak and midday service. But later night trips won't be added yet. The non rush hour and reverse would run as a huge giant loop counterclockwise and clockwise. First line will start south ave and down forest ave making X30 stops bus with X14 designation then it continues via X14 routing timed with x1 for downtown access transfers for midtown express direct to midtown of via downtown then FDR follows it's route then as soon as it enters manhattan it will have the X30 designation to 57th then via 5th ave from there making X30 stops then back to SI as X30 but in SI it has x14 designation picking people up while dropping off X30 people. This is counterclockwise routing. Clockwise it does it in reverse but enters SI with X30 designation while emptying out X14 riders when it's on forest ave it picks up midtown riders then it enters manhattan with X14 designation via x30 manhattan routing to 57th or short turned and directly to 5th ave from 42nd it has X14 designation to SI. 

 

This line has high turnover due to it's structure. It's like an off-peak partial S98 in SI basically. Forest ave gains midday LTD stop service well sort of. X30 and X14 will have a combined schedule. To represent this.

 

 

Exactly, when the S99 is running the S98 is also running in the opposite direction so Forest Avenue gets bi-directional limited service for the first time.

 

Now about the express buses, the X30 and X14 are both very expensive for the MTA to run and that's why they only operate during rush hours when the buses are sure to be packed. The X10 still has a lot of room to grow, overnight service, 20 and 15 minute service instead of 30 minutes or even a midtown-fdr-23rd st branch. I would dare to say the X12, but I don't think we'll see any other route besides the X1, X10, and X17 off-peak for many years to come.

Edited February 5, 2013 by North Shore Line

[qjtransitmaster]

Exactly, when the S99 is running the S98 is also running in the opposite direction so Forest Avenue gets bi-directional limited service for the first time.

 

Now about the express buses, the X30 and X14 are both very expensive for the MTA to run and that's why they only operate during rush hours when the buses are sure to be packed. The X10 still has a lot of room to grow, overnight service, 20 and 15 minute service instead of 30 minutes or even a midtown-fdr-23rd st branch. I would dare to say the X12, but I don't think we'll see any other route besides the X1, X10, and X17 off-peak for many years to come.

If MTA treats express lines fairly based on ridership then yes there may be more off-peak lines to SI than just X1 , 10 & 17. Those lines will eventually get beyond capacity. Folks treat it like a subway line over there. The X14 is actually express to midtown it basically is a midtown variant of the X10. If my proposal was approved hylan blvd folks for midtown may use S79SBS to fingerboard for X14. X10 folks may switch to X14 for midtown service and X14 to X10/1 for downtown. Heck dare I say it X7 may become full-time. And tottenville off-peak transferred to X10 via SIE & WSE to cut run-time of X17 at off-peak hours. Transfers to X30 for midtown at those times Or via new super LTD route between brooklyn and SI unlike the others it is designed to tackle congestion on the gowanus and go to areas not easily reached from SI. and south brooklyn. But other changes in brooklyn may have to be made to support it. When MTA bus and NYCT merges prepare to see much more SI express service at the expense of other less utilized services. one BXM and 2 QMs come to mind already I don't see them lasting much longer.