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Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013


FamousNYLover

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The S79 was made SBS because it wouldn't cost too much in terms of increased operating costs: You'd simply take the existing runs, convert them to SBS, boost the frequencies a little (to account for increased ridership), and then then boost the frequencies a little on the locals, and you're done.

 

With the S78, for most of the day, it runs every 15 minutes, so almost every single limited, you'd have to add outright. (Rather than converting some of the locals). Aside from that, you're stopping it short of Tottenville HS for no reason (You have to walk along Luten Avenue, which is a wide street with a very narrow sidewalk on one side, and no sidewalk on the other) Not to mention the fact that for longer distances, the SIR already acts as a limited. While I'm sure some people may ride all the way down from St. George to Eltingville, most people just take the SIR.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the S78 should go and serve the townhouses up around Huguenot Avenue. Buses would take Hylan-Luten-Amboy-Huguenot-Arthur Kill, terminate, and then take Arden-Vespa-Huguenot-Amboy-Luten-Hylan (if people on Vespa don't like it, the S78 could always take Woodrow). You'd connect that part of Arden Heights to Tottenville HS (as well as I.S.7 and I.S.75 along Huguenot), and for whoever wants it, there's shopping along Hylan east of Richmond (though of course, it's not as much of a shopping district as the area by New Dorp). And you might get a handful of riders transferring from the SIR to get towards Arden Heights, though of course, that's express bus territory over there.

 

As I mentioned before, the S59 would be extended to Tottenville full-time to provide coverage down there, so there wouldn't be any issues with removing the S78 from there. The S74 would pass through the Bricktown Mall and continue to serve Tottenville.

better idea extend S62/92 to tottenville via huguenot rd and WSE done. try S78 on arden ave.

Edited by qjtransitmaster
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better idea extend S62/92 to tottenville via huguenot rd and WSE done. try S78 on arden ave.

 

For starters, stop with this "done" nonsense. Seriously.

 

Second of all, if a route is going to run along the West Shore Expressway, it has to be a dedicated route. It can't be a route where the primary purpose is elsewhere along the route. You'd piss of a lot of people if the S62/92 were to get caught in traffic (and the WSE isn't exactly delay-free). Everybody west of Jewett would be screwed, and the S61 would get hammered east of Jewett.

 

Yes, ideally, I'd like to fill both gaps along Huguenot & Arden. (And I've mentioned this in the past, so you're not suggesting anything new by pointing out the gap on Arden). I figure Arden is closer to the S55 & S59/79/89 (and of course, the S56), and those routes travel to the SI Mall and ETC, which would be a larger destination than the part of Hylan Blvd in Eltingville/Great Kills. By contrast, Huguenot Avenue has 3 schools, with one of them being a high school. (The middle schools have school buses, but you might be able to garner a handful of riders from there) And then you have the SIR station at Huguenot, which might garner another handful of riders.

 

I mean, maybe there could be a second local branch of the S79 (one via Giffords, the other via Arden), but that would be too confusing, and at that point, you'd be providing a ton of local service along Hylan (the S79A/B every 30 minutes each, the S78 every 15 minutes, and then the S79 every 10-15 minutes). Until there's significant growth in the amount of people willing to use transit down there, the few people who need the service will just have to walk it out to the existing routes. Ideally, you could have it go via Arden-Drumgoogle-Huguenot, but you bypass Tottenville HS.

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For starters, stop with this "done" nonsense. Seriously.

 

Second of all, if a route is going to run along the West Shore Expressway, it has to be a dedicated route. It can't be a route where the primary purpose is elsewhere along the route. You'd piss of a lot of people if the S62/92 were to get caught in traffic (and the WSE isn't exactly delay-free). Everybody west of Jewett would be screwed, and the S61 would get hammered east of Jewett.

 

Yes, ideally, I'd like to fill both gaps along Huguenot & Arden. (And I've mentioned this in the past, so you're not suggesting anything new by pointing out the gap on Arden). I figure Arden is closer to the S55 & S59/79/89 (and of course, the S56), and those routes travel to the SI Mall and ETC, which would be a larger destination than the part of Hylan Blvd in Eltingville/Great Kills. By contrast, Huguenot Avenue has 3 schools, with one of them being a high school. (The middle schools have school buses, but you might be able to garner a handful of riders from there) And then you have the SIR station at Huguenot, which might garner another handful of riders.

 

I mean, maybe there could be a second local branch of the S79 (one via Giffords, the other via Arden), but that would be too confusing, and at that point, you'd be providing a ton of local service along Hylan (the S79A/B every 30 minutes each, the S78 every 15 minutes, and then the S79 every 10-15 minutes). Until there's significant growth in the amount of people willing to use transit down there, the few people who need the service will just have to walk it out to the existing routes. Ideally, you could have it go via Arden-Drumgoogle-Huguenot, but you bypass Tottenville HS.

IT WON'T WSE is just a short segment the chances of that part slowing down S62 is like getting struck by lightening.  S61 I did not even bring it up. That segment is so short that S62 will most likely not get delayed enough for it to be noticeable.

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IT WON'T WSE is just a short segment the chances of that part slowing down S62 is like getting struck by lightening. S61 I did not even bring it up. That segment is so short that S62 will most likely not get delayed enough for it to be noticeable.

 

Where's the damn facepalm when you need one? Yes, it's a short segment, but there's absolutely no alternatives. If you get stuck there, you're going to be crawling all the way to Arden Avenue. If you think that the odds of getting stuck in traffic are like getting hit by lightning, you clearly need to use that portion of the WSE more often. I've seen WSE buses making their way to Richmond Avenue because the traffic was bad, not to mention the times I've been on the WSE during a traffic jam.

 

When did I say you brought up the S61? I brought it up because the S61 & S62 share a significant portion of the route, so any delays on the S62 will affect the S61 because it will take all the passengers instead of splitting them with the S62.

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Lol at this...

 

The question I have is..... What the heck does sending the S62 to Tottenville have to do with sending the S59 to Tottenville?

 

It's like playing blackjack & telling me you have pocket rockets or something....

(let's see if anyone gets that analogy)

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Lol at this...

 

The question I have is..... What the heck does sending the S62 to Tottenville have to do with sending the S59 to Tottenville?

 

It's like playing blackjack & telling me you have pocket rockets or something....

(let's see if anyone gets that analogy)

lol...... I need to rep this when I can.

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Where's the damn facepalm when you need one? Yes, it's a short segment, but there's absolutely no alternatives. If you get stuck there, you're going to be crawling all the way to Arden Avenue. If you think that the odds of getting stuck in traffic are like getting hit by lightning, you clearly need to use that portion of the WSE more often. I've seen WSE buses making their way to Richmond Avenue because the traffic was bad, not to mention the times I've been on the WSE during a traffic jam.

 

When did I say you brought up the S61? I brought it up because the S61 & S62 share a significant portion of the route, so any delays on the S62 will affect the S61 because it will take all the passengers instead of splitting them with the S62.

again that WSE is only jammed at rush I am there often to know that you can't compare it to BQE now. To be honest I'd prefer S92/62 to end at SI university hospital south. When it is jammed it is usually only north of victory so the S62/92 will conveniently bypass that traffic anyway. Those buses on richmond ave were avoiding WSE between SIE and exit 7 victory blvd. At rush hour you do realize S92 is fast right WSE will never be able to slow it down significantly enough. On weekends jams are rare and won't affect that segment which is extremely short. Still no strong argument just dated fear of infrequent jams that are not even often. 

Edited by qjtransitmaster
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Lol at this...

 

The question I have is..... What the heck does sending the S62 to Tottenville have to do with sending the S59 to Tottenville?

 

It's like playing blackjack & telling me you have pocket rockets or something....

(let's see if anyone gets that analogy)

Simple just truncate S78 at huguenot ave and let S92/62 do it except rush hour when S59 does it instead.

 

Why would you send the S62 to Tottenville anyway? SMH

It's actually only off-peak at rush S92 ends at the hospital. S62 won't be touched at rush. reverse trips would also make the trip to that hospital.

Edited by qjtransitmaster
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Lol at this...

 

The question I have is..... What the heck does sending the S62 to Tottenville have to do with sending the S59 to Tottenville?

 

It's like playing blackjack & telling me you have pocket rockets or something....

(let's see if anyone gets that analogy)

 

Both games use cards, but telling somebody about something poker-related is irrelevant to blackjack.

 

again that WSE is only jammed at rush I am there often to know that you can't compare it to BQE now. To be honest I'd prefer S92/62 to end at SI university hospital south.

 

So what are you going to do? Not run the extension during rush hour? What about on the weekends when it gets jammed? Are you going to only run it during middays like the Q89 (and we all know how well that turned out)?

 

And how many people is this extension supposed to benefit? In that part of the South Shore, the only major destination that might attract anybody from up here is Tottenville HS (and maybe a couple of the private schools down there), but even then, those (few) kids can make their way to the S59. The only thing along Victory that people from the South Shore would be attracted to is CSI. But again, they can make their way to the S59. (Whether it's transferring from the S56 or S74 or SIR or whatever). The only area where it's really roundabout to get to the South Shore is Travis, but that's a small area.

 

It would be one thing if it was like the S54/57, where there's a general need for connectivity in that area (so you could justify a few miles of dead milage through the Greenbelt), but this isn't the case.

 

Simple just truncate S78 at huguenot ave and let S92/62 do it except rush hour when S59 does it instead.

 

Yeah, truncate the S78 to Huguenot Avenue in the middle of nowhere. Great idea. :rolleyes:

 

Aside from that, what happened to Arden Avenue? You're trying to defend yourself, and your ideas are getting even more ridiculous.

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Both games use cards, but telling somebody about something poker-related is irrelevant to blackjack.

 

 

So what are you going to do? Not run the extension during rush hour? What about on the weekends when it gets jammed? Are you going to only run it during middays like the Q89 (and we all know how well that turned out)?

 

And how many people is this extension supposed to benefit?

Aside from that, what happened to Arden Avenue? You're trying to defend yourself, and your ideas are getting even more ridiculous.

The same people the other highway-bound 10-mile-long limited routes to nowhere are supposed to benefit: imaginary riders who have nothing to do but sit and ride on buses on highways all day.

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Both games use cards, but telling somebody about something poker-related is irrelevant to blackjack.

 

 

So what are you going to do? Not run the extension during rush hour? What about on the weekends when it gets jammed?again that is a big what if that is unlikely to happen nice try. Are you going to only run it during middays like the Q89 (and we all know how well that turned out)? Only when S92 is not running will S62 make that trip.

 

And how many people is this extension supposed to benefit? In that part of the South Shore, the only major destination that might attract anybody from up here is Tottenville HS (and maybe a couple of the private schools down there), but even then, those (few) kids can make their way to the S59. The only thing along Victory that people from the South Shore would be attracted to is CSI. But again, they can make their way to the S59. (Whether it's transferring from the S56 or S74 or SIR or whatever). The only area where it's really roundabout to get to the South Shore is Travis, but that's a small area.

You really can't be serious that trip is stupidly long and impractical that makes no sense this is coverage and connectivity.

It would be one thing if it was like the S54/57, where there's a general need for connectivity in that area (so you could justify a few miles of dead milage through the Greenbelt), but this isn't the case.

 

 

Yeah, truncate the S78 to Huguenot Avenue in the middle of nowhere. Great idea. :rolleyes:

 

Aside from that, what happened to Arden Avenue? You're trying to defend yourself, and your ideas are getting even more ridiculous.

 

I meant at the hospital. And at rush the S92 ends at the hospital due to S59. There is no reasoning with you sometimes I don't care about your reason I have mine and you have yours. Yeah lets make our way to the slow S59 then transfer again your reasoning is flawed and you know it. WSE that is IF it gets jammed nothing is perfect. The S62/92 are one in the same so S62 is the short-turn at rush while S92 goes the full route while At off-peak while S59 and S92 aren't running S62 will do it you can't not realize that kid you are much smarter than this don't disappoint me. The arden ave part was me not being sure I am curious what potential routing will you make a dedicated WSE line take where will it go from where to where? I want to compare it to a concept I was looking at. red replies.

The same people the other highway-bound 10-mile-long limited routes to nowhere are supposed to benefit: imaginary riders who have nothing to do but sit and ride on buses on highways all day.

If you have nothing to add STFU. You really want me to actually show you do you want to look stupid? 

 

Are you sure remember this is the SI thread if you are referring to LGA or JFK your gonna get burned hard. I suggest you don't try to belittle people it will bite you back get real boy.

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1) again that is a big what if that is unlikely to happen nice try.

 

2) Only when S92 is not running will S62 make that trip.

 

3) You really can't be serious that trip is stupidly long and impractical that makes no sense this is coverage and connectivity

 

1) I've seen the WSE get jammed on the weekends. Trust me. And this was a decent amount of times.

 

2) Great, so now the S92 can get caught in traffic and delay everybody east of Travis.

 

3) South Shore to CSI? How is that stupidly long and impractical? There are people in my neighborhood who go to school on the South Shore (matter of fact, I personally know about 6 or 7 people offhand who do it, not to mention all the kids I've seen crowding southbound AM S59s before those schools behind the mall even opened). If there's a sizable amount of people who go the reverse of that trip, why would it be impractical to go from the South Shore to CSI? It's like a 40 minute ride on the S59, and there are plenty commutes that involve 40 minute bus rides on SI. (Hell, even taking the express bus to Manhattan is over 40 minutes most of the time) Add in a transfer at the ETC or something, and that might bring it to an hour. Not the easiest commute, but definitely not impractical.

 

But notice, all the kids I mentioned make do with the S59. Really, the only area where it would actually make it more direct would be from Travis. From everywhere else, just take the S62 to the S59 and make another transfer where necessary.

 

As for coverage and connectivity, well, the S78 (under my plan) already deals with coverage. As for connectivity along the WSE, well, the thing is look at what you're connecting. An isolated, residential area (Travis), to another residential area (With a long stretch in between)

 

I meant at the hospital. And at rush the S92 ends at the hospital due to S59. There is no reasoning with you sometimes I don't care about your reason I have mine and you have yours. Yeah lets make our way to the slow S59 then transfer again your reasoning is flawed and you know it. WSE that is IF it gets jammed nothing is perfect. The S62/92 are one in the same so S62 is the short-turn at rush while S92 goes the full route while At off-peak while S59 and S92 aren't running S62 will do it you can't not realize that kid you are much smarter than this don't disappoint me. The arden ave part was me not being sure I am curious what potential routing will you make a dedicated WSE line take where will it go from where to where? I want to compare it to a concept I was looking at. red replies.

 

For starters, I hope you're not expecting a whole lot of riders to come from that hospital. It's not like Bard Avenue on the S46 where you have decent crowds getting on and off.

 

Second of all, the S59 isn't slow. South of Victory, Richmond Avenue widens significantly. (Even north of there, it's fairly wide). I've been on buses that have gone nonstop from Richmond Hill Road to Victory Blvd. There's a reason why the S89 is only a few minutes faster than the S59. Yeah, at times you do hit some traffic by Drumgoogle Road (just north of the ETC), and around Victory. But generally, the S59 moves pretty well.

 

During rush, that means you're spending money to extend the S62 to Travis (versus starting/ending by CSI or Jewett) in addition to spending money to send the S92 to Princes Bay, all for the sake of serving a handful of riders. And off-peak, you don't even have any schoolkids to boost ridership. (I mean, you have some at 2-3PM, which is late midday, but you get the point).

 

As far as a dedicated WSE line, I'm just saying that if such a route were to exist, it would have to be a dedicated WSE line. The problem is that there would be a lot of dead milage. You have the stretch from Arden Heights to Travis, which is completely unavoidable. Then, north of Travis, if you want, you can go up South Avenue and serve the Teleport and so on, but as much as people like to hype up the Teleport, it's really not much of a ridership generator. Then, you have your choice as to what you want to serve (Go along the SIE service road, go across Forest, etc), but at that point, you're already talking about over 5 miles of mostly dead milage.

 

At one point, I had an S82 plan, which would start somewhere on the South Shore (maybe SIUH South, and go up Huguenot, with the S78 covering Arden), go along the WSE, go onto South Avenue, serve the SIE service road, then go up Richmond and into Bayonne. But my primary concern was filling that gap by the SIE. But with my S67 plan covering that gap (which I'm still pushing for in real life BTW), now that's less justfication for that dead milage. You still have the Bayonne-bound riders (who can be covered by other methods), but really, you can't justify all that dead milage.

 

So in short, what should cover the WSE? At this point, it's not worth covering. Maybe when they ever finish that Fresh Kills Park, and if it becomes a major enough destination, and if they ever do any major expansion of the Teleport (which I doubt will ever happen), and if there's any major development by that part of the South Shore (a huge mall or something), then I can see such a route doing well. But until then, we'll just have to deal with that gap.

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1) I've seen the WSE get jammed on the weekends. Trust me. And this was a decent amount of times.

 

2) Great, so now the S92 can get caught in traffic and delay everybody east of Travis.

 

3) South Shore to CSI? How is that stupidly long and impractical? There are people in my neighborhood who go to school on the South Shore (matter of fact, I personally know about 6 or 7 people offhand who do it, not to mention all the kids I've seen crowding southbound AM S59s before those schools behind the mall even opened). If there's a sizable amount of people who go the reverse of that trip, why would it be impractical to go from the South Shore to CSI? It's like a 40 minute ride on the S59, and there are plenty commutes that involve 40 minute bus rides on SI. (Hell, even taking the express bus to Manhattan is over 40 minutes most of the time) Add in a transfer at the ETC or something, and that might bring it to an hour. Not the easiest commute, but definitely not impractical.

 

But notice, all the kids I mentioned make do with the S59. Really, the only area where it would actually make it more direct would be from Travis. From everywhere else, just take the S62 to the S59 and make another transfer where necessary.

 

As for coverage and connectivity, well, the S78 (under my plan) already deals with coverage. As for connectivity along the WSE, well, the thing is look at what you're connecting. An isolated, residential area (Travis), to another residential area (With a long stretch in between)

 

 

For starters, I hope you're not expecting a whole lot of riders to come from that hospital. It's not like Bard Avenue on the S46 where you have decent crowds getting on and off.

 

Second of all, the S59 isn't slow. South of Victory, Richmond Avenue widens significantly. (Even north of there, it's fairly wide). I've been on buses that have gone nonstop from Richmond Hill Road to Victory Blvd. There's a reason why the S89 is only a few minutes faster than the S59. Yeah, at times you do hit some traffic by Drumgoogle Road (just north of the ETC), and around Victory. But generally, the S59 moves pretty well.

 

During rush, that means you're spending money to extend the S62 to Travis (versus starting/ending by CSI or Jewett) in addition to spending money to send the S92 to Princes Bay, all for the sake of serving a handful of riders. And off-peak, you don't even have any schoolkids to boost ridership. (I mean, you have some at 2-3PM, which is late midday, but you get the point).

 

As far as a dedicated WSE line, I'm just saying that if such a route were to exist, it would have to be a dedicated WSE line. The problem is that there would be a lot of dead milage. You have the stretch from Arden Heights to Travis, which is completely unavoidable. Then, north of Travis, if you want, you can go up South Avenue and serve the Teleport and so on, but as much as people like to hype up the Teleport, it's really not much of a ridership generator. Then, you have your choice as to what you want to serve (Go along the SIE service road, go across Forest, etc), but at that point, you're already talking about over 5 miles of mostly dead milage.

 

At one point, I had an S82 plan, which would start somewhere on the South Shore (maybe SIUH South, and go up Huguenot, with the S78 covering Arden), go along the WSE, go onto South Avenue, serve the SIE service road, then go up Richmond and into Bayonne. But my primary concern was filling that gap by the SIE. But with my S67 plan covering that gap (which I'm still pushing for in real life BTW), now that's less justfication for that dead milage. You still have the Bayonne-bound riders (who can be covered by other methods), but really, you can't justify all that dead milage.

 

So in short, what should cover the WSE? At this point, it's not worth covering. Maybe when they ever finish that Fresh Kills Park, and if it becomes a major enough destination, and if they ever do any major expansion of the Teleport (which I doubt will ever happen), and if there's any major development by that part of the South Shore (a huge mall or something), then I can see such a route doing well. But until then, we'll just have to deal with that gap.

Ohh I get what your saying you are talking about people near richmond ave while I am talking about people by arden heights. Hmm maybe S55 extension to CSI via forest hill road. S82 interesting fine I admit arden by S78 is one way of doing it. My concept is a bit different more like a hybrid zone concept but only on select lines and some times all times on only 1 line which I will mention. The concept is to maximize off-peak ridership as much as possible it will not be applied to any SI expresses to manhattan though except maybe X17 since it is the most frequent bus there and has much better head-ways than the S56 but if my plan succeeds then even that becomes invalid and then the we have S56 argument can be used. It would take effect on mostly QMs and BM1 where reverse peak is created sort of then at off-peak and non peak trips a few lines become open-door within segments either as LTDs when the LTD variant of parallel local bus is not running or on parts where no other bus exists such as BM1. Fare enforced by this you tell the driver your destination if you dip express plus it won't matter regardless. If you dip regular PPR you are heading to manhattan a receipt looking like a paper transfer is given you give it back to confirm your trip. If on manhattan bound and not going to manhattan you dip to get off. This won't apply to outbound buses as all who board in manhattan pay full fare those who don't pay local fare. BXM lines are too crowded for this to work and duplicate very frequent locals that are not exactly slow. Only line in the bronx where this even has a chance is Bxm3 it's ridership is quite low anyway but this will be best on a limited scale with a special rule I will detail later 

 

 

SI the WSE I figured well S62 does link to several other routes that are north south you know it would add to the convenience and can take some non NJ bound cars off the road. The jams aren't as bad as say the BQE nor as frequent. I'd just make an express bus which would have this hybrid fare structure. However due to changes in the metrocard fare and transfer it may be even harder to implement such a fare policy. This will have 2 branches but will be open-door. one via arden with 30 min headways the other via X22's routing but it will allow local passengers. They go express to forest ave making X12 stops but it will go down Bradley instead of on victory next stop bay ridge then red hook via hamilton. It can go to williamsburg via hell or side streets and navy yard. Or via brooklyn heights. However I am conflicted as to how to perfect it.

I have noticed that there is a lack of express bus service in LES and areas by the (L). I mean by 2nd ave ect in manhattan.

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Both games use cards, but telling somebody about something poker-related is irrelevant to blackjack.

Not so much that they both use cards, but yeah, telling me that you open up with pocket rockets (which is a poker term, for starters) doesn't mean anything in game of blackjack.... you can split em to double your chances of getting 21 (notice I didn't say blackjack), but your total winnings are also "split" when you do that (which of course, sucks)....

 

Whereas in poker, pocket rockets (2 aces) is one of the better, if not the best hand you can open up with.....

 

Simple just truncate S78 at huguenot ave and let S92/62 do it except rush hour when S59 does it instead.

There's no simplicity to any of it because this is basically a "pull shit out of ass" type of a response.... Regardless of there being ZERO reason to end the S78 at some huguenot/hylan for the sake of extending the S62 to Tottenville, it doesn't make extending 62's to Tottenville relevant to extending S59's to Tottenville at all.....

 

You cannot compare & try to justify [sending 62's past Travis to Tottenville], to [sending 59's to Tottenville past hylan/richmond]....

Aren't you big on calling out routes that carry air anyway? Now here you are basically suggesting a route that would do so....

 

 

...oh, and P.S... the WSE isn't as free-flowing as you're trying to make it seem; weekdays or weekends... It's not like the war vets pkwy on most occasions.....

 

He's right..... It isn't such this rare occurrence to experience backups on the WSE either.... Hell, the more they build up the south shore at the rate it's going, it's that much worse the WSE's gonna get over time - You know the south shore is car country anyway, come on now.... So if you think those folks down in the south shore will take S62's to get up to the north shore, you got another thing coming....

 

 

There is no reasoning with you sometimes I don't care about your reason I have mine and you have yours.

Lol @ this....

 

Dude, You interjected by blurting out what you thought was a better idea to what HE was proposing..... Not the other way around.

If it's anyone that should not be caring about what the other person's suggesting, it should be him....

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If you have nothing to add STFU. You really want me to actually show you do you want to look stupid? 

 

Are you sure remember this is the SI thread if you are referring to LGA or JFK your gonna get burned hard. I suggest you don't try to belittle people it will bite you back get real boy.

 

Language, young man. We're all still waiting for your grand regional bus route super map, along with ridership demographics. Look, traffic on the WSE is a bitch, you don't wanna send a local bus down there for the sake of doing it.

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Language, young man. We're all still waiting for your grand regional bus route super map, along with ridership demographics. Look, traffic on the WSE is a bitch, you don't wanna send a local bus down there for the sake of doing it.

which one the LGA justification or the experimental SI to brooklyn or bronx to JFK? Or all at once? I have college projects to complete I will post it in a new thread called interborough bus proposals sometime in june stay tuned. The one with ridership demographics is why I suggested extending Q70 in the first place I posted a link showing where workers and travelers to LGA were coming from you need that link again?

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which one the LGA justification or the experimental SI to brooklyn or bronx to JFK? Or all at once? I have college projects to complete I will post it in a new thread called interborough bus proposals sometime in june stay tuned. The one with ridership demographics is why I suggested extending Q70 in the first place I posted a link showing where workers and travelers to LGA were coming from you need that link again?

Holy crap, you're college-aged? You got some growing up to do.

As for maps, any map, really. I mean, we can't truly give a fair judgment of your fantastic ideas until we see some maps to help us visualize. We'd need to see the exact route you're proposing here to truly understand. Otherwise, how can we possibly give an objective opinion? True genius cannot be understood with mere words.

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Holy crap, you're college-aged? You got some growing up to do.

As for maps, any map, really. I mean, we can't truly give a fair judgment of your fantastic ideas until we see some maps to help us visualize. We'd need to see the exact route you're proposing here to truly understand. Otherwise, how can we possibly give an objective opinion? True genius cannot be understood with mere words.

Not gonna lie your right I can't even refute nor counter this accurate statement. I will finish my papers then afterward start mapping out my routes so you can give a truly objective opinion.

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again that WSE is only jammed at rush I am there often to know that you can't compare it to BQE now. To be honest I'd prefer S92/62 to end at SI university hospital south. When it is jammed it is usually only north of victory so the S62/92 will conveniently bypass that traffic anyway. Those buses on richmond ave were avoiding WSE between SIE and exit 7 victory blvd. At rush hour you do realize S92 is fast right WSE will never be able to slow it down significantly enough. On weekends jams are rare and won't affect that segment which is extremely short. Still no strong argument just dated fear of infrequent jams that are not even often. 

 

I didn't see this part before. In any case, traffic doesn't fizzle out at Victory Blvd. If it's jammed north of Victory, most of the time, it's jammed south of Victory. If anything, I'd say it's jammed more south of Victory, because north of there, you have alternatives. You can go up South to wherever you're headed, or cut across Victory and hit the eastbound SIE over there. South of Victory, there's no other direct alternative (of course, you can make your way to Richmond, which would ultimately be quicker, but that's indirect), so spreading the cars out among fewer alternate routes is going to result in more traffic.

 

Ohh I get what your saying you are talking about people near richmond ave while I am talking about people by arden heights.

 

Either way, it doesn't refute my point: Arden Heights-CSI is still a somewhat reasonable commute. S56/74 to the S59/89, and then walk. (Or, maybe S56 to the S61 might work for some).

 

In any case, as far as sending the S55 to CSI, well, remember that I just said that it's the only real ridership generator, people on the South Shore might want to access (Because my point was that there's nothing major along Victory that bus riders from the South Shore would find it worthwhile to travel across the WSE for it). I don't think there would be much demand for direct transit service to that part of the South Shore, because well, most of the students from that area likely drive.

 

But now that I think about it, they did build the new dorms at CSI (If you look on Google Maps, they're where the handball courts used to be). I don't know if there might be some demand for a route to the SI Mall. (Compared to making their way to the S61 or Richmond Avenue, because those would definitely be long walks from the dorm). I guess that's something to consider.

 

you have to try then we will see if those people would take a bus or not till then it is simply guessing. If that area is built-up doesn't that increase the need for transit?

 

The current routes in that area bring residents to more "proven" destinations like the ETC & SI Mall, and yet ridership is fairly low. A route where you're traveling a long distance to hit the nearest "possible" ridership generator would get even lower ridership. 

 

As for density, well, consider this: Believe it or not, Heartland Village (the residential portion of New Springville by the S61) is actually one of the densest neighborhoods on Staten Island. It has a higher population density than areas like Port Richmond, Elm Park, and Mariners' Harbor. Of course, some of that is due to industry in those, especially closer to Richmond Terrace, so let's say that the density is roughly equal. Is transit ridership higher in New Springville, or those North Shore neighborhoods I mentioned? Obviously the North Shore neighborhoods, because their density is more continuous, rather than just being a pocket of density. Not to mention the fact that the general layout of those neighborhoods is more suitable for walking and transit use (there's more commercial strips, and occasional corner stores mixed into the neighborhood).

 

Believe it or not, Arden Heights is also up there in density, once you factor out those two big parks in the area. The problem is that it's more car-oriented density, with more isolated developments and cul-de-sac streets, with nothing within walking distance as far as stores go (not to mention the attitudes of a lot of the residents themselves about driving). But the problem is that it's still density, so you have the problems that come with density such as traffic, but you don't have the benefits. If you connected some of those dead-ends, and set up some sort of commercial strip along say, Woodrow Road & Huguenot Avenue, you could get rid of some of the traffic, while boosting ridership on some bus routes in the area. (Assuming some more residents were open to using transit)

 

So does density always equal higher transit ridership? If done the right way, it should. But if done the wrong way, ridership might remain constant, while the buses get stuck in even more traffic.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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I didn't see this part before. In any case, traffic doesn't fizzle out at Victory Blvd. If it's jammed north of Victory, most of the time, it's jammed south of Victory. If anything, I'd say it's jammed more south of Victory, because north of there, you have alternatives. You can go up South to wherever you're headed, or cut across Victory and hit the eastbound SIE over there. South of Victory, there's no other direct alternative (of course, you can make your way to Richmond, which would ultimately be quicker, but that's indirect), so spreading the cars out among fewer alternate routes is going to result in more traffic.

 

 

Either way, it doesn't refute my point: Arden Heights-CSI is still a somewhat reasonable commute. S56/74 to the S59/89, and then walk. (Or, maybe S56 to the S61 might work for some).

 

In any case, as far as sending the S55 to CSI, well, remember that I just said that it's the only real ridership generator, people on the South Shore might want to access (Because my point was that there's nothing major along Victory that bus riders from the South Shore would find it worthwhile to travel across the WSE for it). I don't think there would be much demand for direct transit service to that part of the South Shore, because well, most of the students from that area likely drive.

 

But now that I think about it, they did build the new dorms at CSI (If you look on Google Maps, they're where the handball courts used to be). I don't know if there might be some demand for a route to the SI Mall. (Compared to making their way to the S61 or Richmond Avenue, because those would definitely be long walks from the dorm). I guess that's something to consider.

 

 

The current routes in that area bring residents to more "proven" destinations like the ETC & SI Mall, and yet ridership is fairly low. A route where you're traveling a long distance to hit the nearest "possible" ridership generator would get even lower ridership. 

 

As for density, well, consider this: Believe it or not, Heartland Village (the residential portion of New Springville by the S61) is actually one of the densest neighborhoods on Staten Island. It has a higher population density than areas like Port Richmond, Elm Park, and Mariners' Harbor. Of course, some of that is due to industry in those, especially closer to Richmond Terrace, so let's say that the density is roughly equal. Is transit ridership higher in New Springville, or those North Shore neighborhoods I mentioned? Obviously the North Shore neighborhoods, because their density is more continuous, rather than just being a pocket of density. Not to mention the fact that the general layout of those neighborhoods is more suitable for walking and transit use (there's more commercial strips, and occasional corner stores mixed into the neighborhood).

 

Believe it or not, Arden Heights is also up there in density, once you factor out those two big parks in the area. The problem is that it's more car-oriented density, with more isolated developments and cul-de-sac streets, with nothing within walking distance as far as stores go (not to mention the attitudes of a lot of the residents themselves about driving). But the problem is that it's still density, so you have the problems that come with density such as traffic, but you don't have the benefits. If you connected some of those dead-ends, and set up some sort of commercial strip along say, Woodrow Road & Huguenot Avenue, you could get rid of some of the traffic, while boosting ridership on some bus routes in the area. (Assuming some more residents were open to using transit)

 

So does density always equal higher transit ridership? If done the right way, it should. But if done the wrong way, ridership might remain constant, while the buses get stuck in even more traffic.

If that area S61 serves is so dense why have people not demanded an increase in X31 service? Isn't X31 just well not frequent enough or have a high enough service span if that area is so dense and people need manhattan doesn't that increase demand for X31 are those residents simply not vocal? What is holding em up? Why is connectivity between new springville and other north shore communities so weak? look at S66 Heck wouldn't that create demand for a route from there new springville to SI ferry via jewett and casleton or richmond Terrance?

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If that area S61 serves is so dense why have people not demanded an increase in X31 service? Isn't X31 just well not frequent enough or have a high enough service span if that area is so dense and people need manhattan doesn't that increase demand for X31 are those residents simply not vocal? What is holding em up? Why is connectivity between new springville and other north shore communities so weak? look at S66 Heck wouldn't that create demand for a route from there new springville to SI ferry via jewett and casleton or richmond Terrance?

 

For starters, because they have the X17 there as well (which is generally more direct). Second of all, because like I said, it's isolated. It's dense, but it's isolated. To the north, you have CSI, to the east, you have the Greenbelt, and to the west you have Fresh Kills.

 

For shopping, they can make their way to the SI Mall, or to Castleton Corners, so there isn't much demand. If you have the S61 take a more roundabout route to St. George, that'll be a lose-lose: It'll kill ridership on the southern end, and won't do much for ridership on the northern end. Yeah, you might reduce duplication on Victory, but Victory's a busy corridor. (Aside from that, you're making it that much harder to reach the SI Mall from those areas of SI).

 

Besides, my S57/66 restructuring would likely boost ridership on Jewett anyway.

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For starters, because they have the X17 there as well (which is generally more direct). Second of all, because like I said, it's isolated. It's dense, but it's isolated. To the north, you have CSI, to the east, you have the Greenbelt, and to the west you have Fresh Kills.

 

For shopping, they can make their way to the SI Mall, or to Castleton Corners, so there isn't much demand. If you have the S61 take a more roundabout route to St. George, that'll be a lose-lose: It'll kill ridership on the southern end, and won't do much for ridership on the northern end. Yeah, you might reduce duplication on Victory, but Victory's a busy corridor. (Aside from that, you're making it that much harder to reach the SI Mall from those areas of SI).

 

Besides, my S57/66 restructuring would likely boost ridership on Jewett anyway.

S66 hmm let me try be back soon send one to NJ the other to brooklyn reshape S76 mildly have brooklyn route via vanderbuilt yeah easy fix. S76 via gymes hill then back to richmond rd. use Brooklyn route for vanderbuilt. S66 brooklyn but a different part S57 to NWK airport via bayonne. yeah we have winners.

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I modified my s78 proposal from a while back the s78 local runs to si university hospital  while the sbs runs to bricktown mall

s78 local

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004da44f321b15b23572

 

s78 sbs, route change  and stops noted with stickys

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004da45c0dc64552d994

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