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Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013


FamousNYLover

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I modified my s78 proposal from a while back the s78 local runs to si university hospital  while the sbs runs to bricktown mall

s78 local

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004da44f321b15b23572

 

s78 sbs, route change  and stops noted with stickys

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=218345366120084192601.0004da45c0dc64552d994

 

Well, for starters, you have some huge gaps between stops. You have nothing in the New Dorp area, when that's probably the busiest part of the route in terms of passengers getting on/off. You missed the Stapleton area entirely (if you're going down Bay Street, you need a stop by the commercial part of Bay Street south of the SIR station. If you went down Tompkins Avenue, you'd need a stop by the Stapleton Houses)

 

And that's ignoring the biggest flaw, that any long-distance passenger would already be on the SIR. Not to mention the additional cost involved in running extra SBS buses.

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Well, for starters, you have some huge gaps between stops. You have nothing in the New Dorp area, when that's probably the busiest part of the route in terms of passengers getting on/off. You missed the Stapleton area entirely (if you're going down Bay Street, you need a stop by the commercial part of Bay Street south of the SIR station. If you went down Tompkins Avenue, you'd need a stop by the Stapleton Houses)

 

And that's ignoring the biggest flaw, that any long-distance passenger would already be on the SIR. Not to mention the additional cost involved in running extra SBS buses.

 

ok i made some modifications do they cover your suggestions?  in terms of stapelton and new dorp?

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There needs to be a S78 LIMITED it's amazing how the longest bus route in the city doesn't have a Limited ......Also needed is a S55 or a S56 on weekends to the mall....no south shore bus goes to the mall on weekends, thats bullcrap

Wouldn't the SIR just be the limited?

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There needs to be a S78 LIMITED it's amazing how the longest bus route in the city doesn't have a Limited ......Also needed is a S55 or a S56 on weekends to the mall....no south shore bus goes to the mall on weekends, thats bullcrap

Stop your whining... You guys got the X1 24/7 and boosted X17 and X22 service. The North Shore has gotten crap for years now and very little improvements in terms of express bus service OR local bus service. You're down in car country anyway and you know most folks down there are too proud to use the local bus so they either use car service or drive.

 

Wouldn't the SIR just be the limited?

Basically... The S78 is more for shorter commuting.  It kind of sucks because the (MTA) is basically forcing folks to the SIR but there isn't enough ridership to command a LTD version.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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ok i made some modifications do they cover your suggestions? in terms of stapelton and new dorp?

 

Well, just keep in mind that as long as the SIR is around, I don't support any form of an S78 SBS. The MTA did the right thing in making the S79 the limited down Hylan, over the S78.

 

Now, if the SIR were to shut down, then I'd support an S78 LTD (or SBS) for that area. In that case (assuming there isn't some drastic change in development or anything), I would have the local run east of Richmond (the hospital isn't a big enough ridership generator to justify terminating buses there). For the limited stops, I'd move the stop on Narrows Road South over to Narrows Road North, and for the stops south of the SIE, I think the S79 stops right now are perfect. (You still have gaps in the New Dorp area, and there should be a stop at Nelson Avenue).

 

Even if there's two limiteds on a corridor, I still think that the stops should be the same. That way, somebody in the neighborhood can just walk up to that main stop, and they'll have the maximum amount of options. (Unless you're dealing with super-frequent routes or something).

 

There needs to be a S78 LIMITED it's amazing how the longest bus route in the city doesn't have a Limited ......Also needed is a S55 or a S56 on weekends to the mall....no south shore bus goes to the mall on weekends, thats bullcrap

 

The S78 is the longest bus in the city distance-wise, but there are still some that are longer time-wise.

 

In any case, the SIR effectively acts as the limited. Even though it's around a half-mile away, it still handles the longer-distance passengers. And then of course, you have the S79. Unfortunately, this isn't Manhattan where you can have the M15 +SBS+ running a few blocks from Lexington Avenue, while still getting high ridership.

 

Wouldn't the SIR just be the limited?

 

Pretty much.

 

Stop your whining... You guys got the X1 24/7 and boosted X17 and X22 service. The North Shore has gotten crap for years now and very little improvements in terms of express bus service OR local bus service. You're down in car country anyway and you know most folks down there are too proud to use the local bus so they either use car service or drive.

 

He never specifically said he lives on the South Shore, though. He could live in Stapleton or Rosebank for all you know.

 

Not only that but it's FREE!!!!!! Unless your going to the ferry or tompkinsville.

 

The thing is that it doesn't go right next to all the shopping along Hylan. But of course, for that, you have the S79.

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Stop your whining... You guys got the X1 24/7 and boosted X17 and X22 service. The North Shore has gotten crap for years now and very little improvements in terms of express bus service OR local bus service. You're down in car country anyway and you know most folks down there are too proud to use the local bus so they either use car service or drive.

Please, even I know that's sarcasm.

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You don't know what I know so don't worry about it.

 

LMAO. Well, you seem pretty worried about it considering the fact that it was the only portion of my post you replied to.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep up with these general replies. Notice you didn't say "I know for a fact he lives on the South Shore" or anything to that effect. We can infer that he lives there based on the routes he's talking about, but we don't know that. If you know he lives on the South Shore, what neighborhood does he live in? (yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're going to come in with the stalker crap or some other sarcastic comment).

 

And the "boost" in X22 service was one later trip, just so you know. Don't tell me you can't think of any lines on the North Shore that have seen a recent boost of one trip.

Edited by checkmatechamp13
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LMAO. Well, you seem pretty worried about it considering the fact that it was the only portion of my post you replied to.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep up with these general replies. Notice you didn't say "I know for a fact he lives on the South Shore" or anything to that effect. We can infer that he lives there based on the routes he's talking about, but we don't know that. If you know he lives on the South Shore, what neighborhood does he live in? (yeah, yeah, yeah, and you're going to come in with the stalker crap or some other sarcastic comment).

 

And the "boost" in X22 service was one later trip, just so you know. Don't tell me you can't think of any lines on the North Shore that have seen a recent boost of one trip.

Seeing that I wasn't talking to you I really don't see why you constantly feel the need to insert yourself into the conversation.  Like I said don't worry about it.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Seeing that I wasn't talking to you I really don't see why you constantly feel the need to insert yourself into the conversation.  Like I said don't worry about it.

 

And like I said, it's an open forum. If I feel like inserting myself into a conversation, I'll do so. Don't act like you're particularly innocent of this yourself.

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And like I said, it's an open forum. If I feel like inserting myself into a conversation, I'll do so. Don't act like you're particularly innocent of this yourself.

Oh yes, how could I forget that it's an open forum. Any excuse to make yourself relevant because everyone is so in need of you "clarifying" everything... 

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Let's keep our hands to ourselves....

 

I agree w/the anti S78 LTD stuff... with the S79 already running SBS (*coughLTDcough*) down Hylan, why is it necessary to do the same with the S78? The S78 is needed for local service along Hylan, why mess with that...

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Let's keep our hands to ourselves....

 

I agree w/the anti S78 LTD stuff... with the S79 already running SBS (*coughLTDcough*) down Hylan, why is it necessary to do the same with the S78? The S78 is needed for local service along Hylan, why mess with that...

The S79 doesn't serve all of Hylan while the S78 does.  The problem is the S78 isn't used like that to give it LTD service, but maybe it should have something during rush hours...

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The S79 doesn't serve all of Hylan while the S78 does.  The problem is the S78 isn't used like that to give it LTD service, but maybe it should have something during rush hours...

The S79 serves the most vital part of Hylan Blvd and Important links (Subway), thats why it was chosen for SBS in a way. The S78 has local only service for the fact the most of the areas it serves have alternatives or dont warrant LTD service.

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The S79 serves the most vital part of Hylan Blvd and Important links (Subway), thats why it was chosen for SBS in a way. The S78 has local only service for the fact the most of the areas it serves have alternatives or dont warrant LTD service.

That may be true but it goes from one end of the island to the other and there are a few North-South routes that have LTD service during rush hour.  I think the main reason is ridership.  The headways are only every 15 - 20 minutes for buses that run the full length which makes any LTD service hard to justify.

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Oh yes, how could I forget that it's an open forum. Any excuse to make yourself relevant because everyone is so in need of you "clarifying" everything... 

 

Ah, I see you still don't know how to use quotation marks properly. I never said or implied anything about butting in to "clarify" anything.

 

Oh, and like I said, you're not exactly innocent of butting in yourself. Here I am making a quick comment to BrooklynBus about whether Student MetroCards were discussed, and then you come swooping in trying to divert the discussion onto a tangent talking about who's fault it was that there weren't a whole lot of SI kids talking about Student MetroCards and yadda yadda yadda. (And trying to confuse everybody switching back and forth between the Brooklyn & SI hearings).

 

Let's keep our hands to ourselves....

 

You're not going to sit there and tell me what to do.

 

The S79 doesn't serve all of Hylan while the S78 does.  The problem is the S78 isn't used like that to give it LTD service, but maybe it should have something during rush hours...

 

I don't know what you think is so special about serving "all of" a particular street. Hylan east of Richmond is a different animal from Hylan west of Richmond.

 

Save yourself the keystrokes if you're going to say some nonsense about butting in or whatever.

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Well, so much for "Oh, the community won't accept the changes". :rolleyes: I attended two community board meetings (one yesterday, one last week) in the affected area, and in both cases, the residents overwhelmingly supported it. B-)

guess what same thing happens when I present my ideas at community board meetings that you fools look to bash. So you aren't alone with overwhelming support. I do think S78 can work on arden ave with S59 replacing it full-time to tottenville and reextending the S74 to tottenville.

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I didn't see this part before. In any case, traffic doesn't fizzle out at Victory Blvd. If it's jammed north of Victory, most of the time, it's jammed south of Victory. If anything, I'd say it's jammed more south of Victory, because north of there, you have alternatives. You can go up South to wherever you're headed, or cut across Victory and hit the eastbound SIE over there. South of Victory, there's no other direct alternative (of course, you can make your way to Richmond, which would ultimately be quicker, but that's indirect), so spreading the cars out among fewer alternate routes is going to result in more traffic.

 

 

Either way, it doesn't refute my point: Arden Heights-CSI is still a somewhat reasonable commute. S56/74 to the S59/89, and then walk. (Or, maybe S56 to the S61 might work for some).

 

In any case, as far as sending the S55 to CSI, well, remember that I just said that it's the only real ridership generator, people on the South Shore might want to access (Because my point was that there's nothing major along Victory that bus riders from the South Shore would find it worthwhile to travel across the WSE for it). I don't think there would be much demand for direct transit service to that part of the South Shore, because well, most of the students from that area likely drive.

 

But now that I think about it, they did build the new dorms at CSI (If you look on Google Maps, they're where the handball courts used to be). I don't know if there might be some demand for a route to the SI Mall. (Compared to making their way to the S61 or Richmond Avenue, because those would definitely be long walks from the dorm). I guess that's something to consider.

 

 

The current routes in that area bring residents to more "proven" destinations like the ETC & SI Mall, and yet ridership is fairly low. A route where you're traveling a long distance to hit the nearest "possible" ridership generator would get even lower ridership. 

 

As for density, well, consider this: Believe it or not, Heartland Village (the residential portion of New Springville by the S61) is actually one of the densest neighborhoods on Staten Island. It has a higher population density than areas like Port Richmond, Elm Park, and Mariners' Harbor. Of course, some of that is due to industry in those, especially closer to Richmond Terrace, so let's say that the density is roughly equal. Is transit ridership higher in New Springville, or those North Shore neighborhoods I mentioned? Obviously the North Shore neighborhoods, because their density is more continuous, rather than just being a pocket of density. Not to mention the fact that the general layout of those neighborhoods is more suitable for walking and transit use (there's more commercial strips, and occasional corner stores mixed into the neighborhood).

 

Believe it or not, Arden Heights is also up there in density, once you factor out those two big parks in the area. The problem is that it's more car-oriented density, with more isolated developments and cul-de-sac streets, with nothing within walking distance as far as stores go (not to mention the attitudes of a lot of the residents themselves about driving). But the problem is that it's still density, so you have the problems that come with density such as traffic, but you don't have the benefits. If you connected some of those dead-ends, and set up some sort of commercial strip along say, Woodrow Road & Huguenot Avenue, you could get rid of some of the traffic, while boosting ridership on some bus routes in the area. (Assuming some more residents were open to using transit)

 

So does density always equal higher transit ridership? If done the right way, it should. But if done the wrong way, ridership might remain constant, while the buses get stuck in even more traffic.

proven err yeah proven to not be good generators for the S55/56 It's been proven that nothing within SI will help S55/56 ridership. It's been proven that ETC and the SI mall are just not good enough.

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guess what same thing happens when I present my ideas at community board meetings that you fools look to bash. So you aren't alone with overwhelming support. I do think S78 can work on arden ave with S59 replacing it full-time to tottenville and reextending the S74 to tottenville.

 

I think that would work too, but that wasn't the proposal I was referring to. I was referring to my S57/66 restructuring.

 

proven err yeah proven to not be good generators for the S55/56 It's been proven that nothing within SI will help S55/56 ridership. It's been proven that ETC and the SI mall are just not good enough.

 

Did I say they were proven to generate good ridership?

 

The SI Mall & ETC are way more important destinations for South Shore residents than CSI. That's what I meant by proven. I didn't say they provided good ridership.

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I think that would work too, but that wasn't the proposal I was referring to. I was referring to my S57/66 restructuring.

 

 

Did I say they were proven to generate good ridership?

 

The SI Mall & ETC are way more important destinations for South Shore residents than CSI. That's what I meant by proven. I didn't say they provided good ridership.

I kinda liked the S66/57 proposal however NJ would add a ton of ridership to the S57 eliminating the need to reroute it BUT keeping it on jewett would create a crosstown that could work for many people.  CSI not gonna lie you have a point there.

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I kinda liked the S66/57 proposal however NJ would add a ton of ridership to the S57 eliminating the need to reroute it BUT keeping it on jewett would create a crosstown that could work for many people.  CSI not gonna lie you have a point there.

Unfortunately, either way it would need to be rerouted in order for the proposal to be successful. If you don't reroute the S57, that ends up leaving Jewett Avenue with no service while Watchogue (at least the eastern part) has two bus routes. Even if the S57 were sent to NJ, Jewett would still be better than Watchogue,

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Unfortunately, either way it would need to be rerouted in order for the proposal to be successful. If you don't reroute the S57, that ends up leaving Jewett Avenue with no service while Watchogue (at least the eastern part) has two bus routes. Even if the S57 were sent to NJ, Jewett would still be better than Watchogue,

you have somewhat of a point there.

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