Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Here are two reasons why I'm against that. Riders heading to Midtown fid the X17J more attractive because of the reduced run time. Furthermore after 10AM Lincoln Tunnel traffic isn't to bad. Although it isn't saving much time, it skips the Holland tunnel which almost always cause a backup on 6th ave. It is despised by anyone who travels to midtown on a bus that goes through that area.    

 

I honestly think they should get rid of the X10 off peak service and run the X12 instead. Although the X10 does get a decent amount of off peak riders, turnout especially in the midday/afternoon to manhattan can be empty. It competes with the X17 which is a faster trip and the X1 which is a shorter wait. I remember When I made a cheeky joyride to SI on the X17J I got of at Richmond ave to transfer to the X10. I saw a X17 going to the city packed. My X10 came right after empty, only one other passenger got on before Fingerboard. At fingerboard, we were behind an X1 and the passengers, came to our bus because the X1 was full. X12 doesn't have to compete with the X17 and better serves the North shore in my opinion and they should get the off peak service not the X10

 

The X21 need more PM service

Well I have mentioned adding some sort of midday X12 service, but that got turned down real quick...

 

I still think though that there's a potential of X12 service to prove successful. That way, you could have the X10 run only to Midtown north of 23 Street, and the X12 run up 23 Street (via Downtown).

 

You could have the X10 runs to Mariners Harbor too, as was mentioned.

[checkmatechamp13]

Here are two reasons why I'm against that. Riders heading to Midtown fid the X17J more attractive because of the reduced run time. Furthermore after 10AM Lincoln Tunnel traffic isn't to bad. Although it isn't saving much time, it skips the Holland tunnel which almost always cause a backup on 6th ave. It is despised by anyone who travels to midtown on a bus that goes through that area.    

 

Saves much time compared to what, though? Compared to taking the X17C all the way to Midtown, definitely. But compared to taking the X17C and then jumping on the subway, it doesn't save that much time.

 

I honestly think they should get rid of the X10 off peak service and run the X12 instead. Although the X10 does get a decent amount of off peak riders, turnout especially in the midday/afternoon to manhattan can be empty. It competes with the X17 which is a faster trip and the X1 which is a shorter wait. I remember When I made a cheeky joyride to SI on the X17J I got of at Richmond ave to transfer to the X10. I saw a X17 going to the city packed. My X10 came right after empty, only one other passenger got on before Fingerboard. At fingerboard, we were behind an X1 and the passengers, came to our bus because the X1 was full. X12 doesn't have to compete with the X17 and better serves the North shore in my opinion and they should get the off peak service not the X10

 

The way I see it, the reason the X10 has the off-peak service is as a compromise to people living by North/South Gannon Avenue, so at least they have some type of transit service. It's like "You want to take the local bus to the ferry, you make your way to Victory. You want the express bus, you go to South Gannon", and vice versa coming home. Otherwise, you end up leaving people by the expressway with no sort of transit service whatsoever.

 

Plus, another issue is that the X10 serves Narrows Road North/South, while the X12 doesn't, but that can be remedied by just having it serve those stops off-peak. 

 

Not sure which trip you took, but midday trips into Manhattan can get pretty crowded. Maybe the previous X10 was late, and picked up most of the passengers. 

Edited January 3, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

Basically, there´s a study going on regarding Staten Island bus service as a whole. (Similar to the NE Queens & Co-Op City studies, except it'll cover the whole borough). The article honestly gives too much credit to the politicians, when it was really the local community groups that pushed for the study. (In our case, we're part of the Mariners Harbor Civic Association). 

 

So basically, it'll be up to us to hold their feet to the fire and have them study those specific subjects, and then see if their analysis was reasonable (that's where my stats knowledge comes into play. 

 

 

 

 

I'd say that out of the people that get off at South Avenue, the people headed towards Mariners Harbor & Arlington will generally walk or take the local bus. The people headed down into Graniteville (further south towards the SIE) are more likely to drive/get picked up. Whenever I've taken the S46/96 heading southbound in the PM rush, sometimes I'll see like 4-5 people using the stop at South & Forest, but I think those are mostly local residents heading to the Teleport or West Shore Plaza, since they stay on the bus past the SIE.

 

For Harbor Plaza, I'm not sure if you guys are referring to the stop by Lowes, or the stop by Western Beef. (Harbor Plaza is across the street from Lowes. Western Beef is a few blocks further east in Forest Plaza). The Western Beef stop has a lot more parking (literally, you get off the bus going home, and you can literally walk directly to your car). Harbor Plaza itself is a small shopping center, and Lowes has a fence around its parking lot, so I think you'd be more apt to have your car towed, parking in one of those lots.

 

In any case, I know the Western Beef/Forest Plaza stop is a big one for parking. Harbor Plaza tends to see more walk-ups.

 

One of the things that has been argued for (before I got involved with the MHCA) is to have the X17J take Forest-South-Fahy in the afternoons, since the people living in the vicinity of South & Goethals don't have any direct express service coming home. I'm inclined to disagree, because it would prolong the X17J for the main core of the ridership further south. 

 

I for one am sick of hearing those damn people b*tch about their lack of service (the people living in the vicinity of South & Goethals).  They already had the X30 rerouted down to South Avenue just for them, plus they have the X17J there.  How much more service do they need?  I found the whole thing annoying on both the X30 and the X17J when I used them.  Both buses are already crowded enough, and quite frankly they should have a separate service for them.  I don't think the X30 or the X17J should be further extended.  It is completely unfair to residents that live further south on the X17J, and also unfair for former residents like myself that lived further east by Forest Avenue.

 

As for the stop I'm referring to, it's the one where the Western Beef store was relocated to with the big parking lot by Forest and Maple Parkway.  That's where most people get off and walk to their cars or are picked up.  Very few people get off and walk.  That's usually the stops that are further west where they do that, as those people obviously live in Mariners Harbor.

[IAlam]

Saves much time compared to what, though? Compared to taking the X17C all the way to Midtown, definitely. But compared to taking the X17C and then jumping on the subway, it doesn't save that much time.

 

 

The way I see it, the reason the X10 has the off-peak service is as a compromise to people living by North/South Gannon Avenue, so at least they have some type of transit service. It's like "You want to take the local bus to the ferry, you make your way to Victory. You want the express bus, you go to South Gannon", and vice versa coming home. Otherwise, you end up leaving people by the expressway with no sort of transit service whatsoever.

 

Plus, another issue is that the X10 serves Narrows Road North/South, while the X12 doesn't, but that can be remedied by just having it serve those stops off-peak. 

 

Not sure which trip you took, but midday trips into Manhattan can get pretty crowded. Maybe the previous X10 was late, and picked up most of the passengers. 

I see you have valid points however, the reason I disagree is because if both the X1 and X17 were crowded compared my bus which in itself was late. The bus prior was a proper distance from my bus. However I can confirm that my bus didn't show up on Bus time which could have played a factor. But 4 passengers two of which were originally going for the X1 doesn't give you a good impression. Anyway if the bus is by the highway those resident have easy access to the highway while the X12 avoids the highway which i think is much better considering SI is a car centric borough so it would probably better serve those away from the highway.      

[checkmatechamp13]

I for one am sick of hearing those damn people b*tch about their lack of service (the people living in the vicinity of South & Goethals).  They already had the X30 rerouted down to South Avenue just for them, plus they have the X17J there.  How much more service do they need?  I found the whole thing annoying on both the X30 and the X17J when I used them.  Both buses are already crowded enough, and quite frankly they should have a separate service for them.  I don't think the X30 or the X17J should be further extended.  It is completely unfair to residents that live further south on the X17J, and also unfair for former residents like myself that lived further east by Forest Avenue.

 

As for the stop I'm referring to, it's the one where the Western Beef store was relocated to with the big parking lot by Forest and Maple Parkway.  That's where most people get off and walk to their cars or are picked up.  Very few people get off and walk.  That's usually the stops that are further west where they do that, as those people obviously live in Mariners Harbor.

 

Well, they have half the X17J and half the X30 over there, since they only stop in one direction lol. They don't have those buses there in the PM, so while I don't necessarily agree with what they're asking for, I can see where they're coming from.

 

As for what "more service" is needed, we need that signature of mine to become a reality.  But that's local service, not express service.

 

And cool, I figured that was the stop you were referring to.

 

I see you have valid points however, the reason I disagree is because if both the X1 and X17 were crowded compared my bus which in itself was late. The bus prior was a proper distance from my bus. However I can confirm that my bus didn't show up on Bus time which could have played a factor. But 4 passengers two of which were originally going for the X1 doesn't give you a good impression. Anyway if the bus is by the highway those resident have easy access to the highway while the X12 avoids the highway which i think is much better considering SI is a car centric borough so it would probably better serve those away from the highway.      

 

Just because somebody lives near a highway doesn't necessarily mean they own a car. And in any case, people living in the residential areas away from the highway (such as Westerleigh) also own cars, so if they want the express bus, they can drive to it if they don't feel like using the bus to the ferry (which will become easier once my restructured S66 is implemented)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, they have half the X17J and half the X30 over there, since they only stop in one direction lol. They don't have those buses there in the PM, so while I don't necessarily agree with what they're asking for, I can see where they're coming from.

 

As for what "more service" is needed, we need that signature of mine to become a reality.  But that's local service, not express service.

 

And cool, I figured that was the stop you were referring to.

 

 

Just because somebody lives near a highway doesn't necessarily mean they own a car. And in any case, people living in the residential areas away from the highway (such as Westerleigh) also own cars, so if they want the express bus, they can drive to it if they don't feel like using the bus to the ferry (which will become easier once my restructured S66 is implemented)

Since we were talking about Staten Island neighborhoods and which ones are wealthy, I thought this would be of interest you.  My old neighborhood of West Brighton made the list of the most wealthy neighborhoods of ALL of Staten Island  :

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/01/the_wealthiest_enclaves_on_sta.html#incart_river_index

 

The overall numbers for West Brighton may be brought down by those housing projects, but if you exclude that and perhaps areas of Broadway, most of West Brighton is quite affluent, especially around Forest Avenue and above it.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JerBear]

For me personally, I'm trying to get the service expanded throughout the island, and I'm working with all three community boards to do so.

They expanded service to the Aqueduct Racino some years ago, sending buses all the way. Then last year they expanded the B13, B83, and Q8 to the new part of the Gateway Center Mall.

Other than these kinds of expansions for new visitor-generating uses, when does NYCT ever expand service? What I see is a lot of effort spent on SBS, minor street changes, and no new routes. The Q70 was only "new" because it was really just a branch of the Q33 named something different. Oh, and they extended something (Q19?) to Hallets Point (I don't remember why).

But will the Staten Island Bus Study really create anything big and new? Especially since the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study created nothing new. Come to think of it: was the QM1 change part of the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study? I don't remember seeing it, but I didn't read it cover-to-cover.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They expanded service to the Aqueduct Racino some years ago, sending buses all the way. Then last year they expanded the B13, B83, and Q8 to the new part of the Gateway Center Mall.

Other than these kinds of expansions for new visitor-generating uses, when does NYCT ever expand service? What I see is a lot of effort spent on SBS, minor street changes, and no new routes. The Q70 was only "new" because it was really just a branch of the Q33 named something different. Oh, and they extended something (Q19?) to Hallets Point (I don't remember why).

But will the Staten Island Bus Study really create anything big and new? Especially since the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study created nothing new. Come to think of it: was the QM1 change part of the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study? I don't remember seeing it, but I didn't read it cover-to-cover.

Well the Northeast Queens politicians are just as worthless as the ones that represent the North Shore of Staten Island.  Meanwhile the politicians working for areas of the Mid Island and South Shore get things done.  If the North Shore had a guy like Vincent Ignizio who really works hard, then I would say it would be possible, but with Debbie Rose begging the I would say no.  She is completely worthless.  I've seen her at the Shop Rite by Richmond Avenue when I was waiting for car service to bring me home with my groceries and she seems like she's out to lunch mentally speaking.

[checkmatechamp13]

They expanded service to the Aqueduct Racino some years ago, sending buses all the way. Then last year they expanded the B13, B83, and Q8 to the new part of the Gateway Center Mall.

Other than these kinds of expansions for new visitor-generating uses, when does NYCT ever expand service? What I see is a lot of effort spent on SBS, minor street changes, and no new routes. The Q70 was only "new" because it was really just a branch of the Q33 named something different. Oh, and they extended something (Q19?) to Hallets Point (I don't remember why).

But will the Staten Island Bus Study really create anything big and new? Especially since the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study created nothing new. Come to think of it: was the QM1 change part of the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study? I don't remember seeing it, but I didn't read it cover-to-cover.

 

They do it, but at a very slow rate. The last local bus extension out here was the S55 sent to the Arthur Kill Correctional Facility, for the purposes of providing more coverage on the South Shore. (The S74/84 & S78 reroute to Bricktown was more recent, but it wasn't really an "extension" since it basically just shifted the southern termini of those routes to shorten the deadhead distance).

 

NYCT created the M12, B84, Bx46, and B32. Short shuttle routes that were designed to get very low ridership, so they weren't anything "big".

 

For the Q19, it was just a short extension to provide better connectivity to the rest of Queens (and an opportunity to straighten out the Q102). The Q103 also got weekend service in order to serve the areas along the waterfront.

 

As for the QM1, no it wasn't mentioned in the NE Queens study. So far, this is what seems to have come out of the study: http://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/northeast_queens_bus_study_-_final_9-28-15.pdf

 

Q. Can the MTA extend the Q34 to Francis Lewis Boulevard?

A. Currently, the Q34 ends on Willets Point Boulevard at 149th Street. The community has suggested that a local bus service running along Willets Point Boulevard to Francis Lewis Boulevard would allow for additional transfers to the Q76 route. No local bus service is currently available on Willets Point Boulevard between this location and Francis Lewis Boulevard. The MTA evaluated the suggested extension to the route. The MTA believes that a route extension to Francis Lewis Boulevard would add reasonable local bus service coverage along Willets Point Boulevard (a corridor now only served by weekday express service, the QM20), but the number of additional riders and possible transfers that might be established is difficult to quantify, and the MTA does not currently have the funding or resources needed to implement this extension.

 

Q. Can the MTA create an express bus from Bay Terrace to Lower Manhattan?

A. The QM2 and QM20 currently serve Bay Terrace with service to Midtown Manhattan. Several areas in Northeast Queens are served by express buses to either Midtown or Lower Manhattan. Suggestions were made that Bay Terrace could be better served with an express bus service to Lower Manhattan. The MTA Bus Company has previously studied the possibility of establishing a route to operate between Bay Terrace and Lower Manhattan. While such a route may be feasible at some point in the future, additional funding will need to be found in order to establish this route.

 

Q. Can the MTA create a new North‐South route along Springfield Boulevard and Bell Boulevard?

A. While there is existing bus service on both of these streets, there is not a single route that covers the entire length of either boulevard. This study did identify some gaps in North‐South service in Northeast Queens. The MTA is investigating ways to fill these gaps in service and provide better bus coverage throughout the study area. The Springfield/Bell Boulevards corridor will be analyzed as part of those efforts.

 

Q. Can the MTA create a new North‐South route along Douglaston Parkway?

A. Douglaston Parkway is bordered by the Cross‐Island Parkway, Alley Pond Park, and Douglaston Golf Course in several sections. Due to this, the majority of development is located to the east of Douglaston Parkway. The MTA is investigating ways to fill the gaps in north‐south service and provide better bus coverage throughout the study area. This corridor will be analyzed further as part of those efforts.

 

Q. Can the travel path for Q65 near Flushing Hospital be changed?

A. Comments were received regarding the travel path of the Q65 bus in the area of Flushing Hospital, a Jewish community center, and a Hindu temple. The MTA evaluated the suggested changes to the route travel path. Further information on this specific service change is located in Section 6: Recommendations of this document.

 

Short‐Term Recommendations

 Modify the Q65 travel path in Flushing to provide more reliable service and to provide all‐day service on Parsons Boulevard alongside the part‐time Q26

 Continue to schedule additional trips such as those on the Q12, Q13, Q28, and Q58 that were added for Summer 2015 as part of ongoing schedule changes

 In conjunction with the initiation of Q44 SBS, create 24‐hour service on the Q20A

 Analyze the feasibility of overnight and all‐day service on the Q13, Q30, and Q88

 Continue to adjust running time on all routes to improve schedule adherence

 

Long‐Term Recommendations

 Implement a pilot program for limited‐zone busservice on a Northeast Queens bus route, possibly to include the Q12, Q17, Q27, Q43, Q46, or Q88

 Analyze the feasibility of limited‐stop service on the Q12 and Q88 bus routes

 Study alternatives to expand north‐south service throughout the study area

 In addition to the two SBS routes along the Flushing‐Jamaica corridor, implement additional Select Bus Service along major transit corridors, possibly to include Hillside Avenue, Northern Boulevard, and Union Turnpike

 Explore creation of a Downtown Flushing Bus Terminal in conjunction with new development and redevelopment occurring in the area

 

 

Well the Northeast Queens politicians are just as worthless as the ones that represent the North Shore of Staten Island.  Meanwhile the politicians working for areas of the Mid Island and South Shore get things done.  If the North Shore had a guy like Vincent Ignizio who really works hard, then I would say it would be possible, but with Debbie Rose begging the I would say no.  She is completely worthless.  I've seen her at the Shop Rite by Richmond Avenue when I was waiting for car service to bring me home with my groceries and she seems like she's out to lunch mentally speaking.

 

The study is for the whole island, not just the North Shore.

 

In any case, the community groups are getting organized (as much as the politicians like to brag, it was really the little civic/community groups that pushed for this study). And we're armed with the MTA's own stats and we know how to interpret them, so they're not going to pull a fast one like they did with the folks out in Queens.

Edited January 5, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The study is for the whole island, not just the North Shore.

 

In any case, the community groups are getting organized (as much as the politicians like to brag, it was really the little civic/community groups that pushed for this study). And we're armed with the MTA's own stats and we know how to interpret them, so they're not going to pull a fast one like they did with the folks out in Queens.

Well that's all fine and dandy, but as it stands now, it's the Mid Island and South Shore that's getting the improvements and that was my point.  The South Shore in particular gets more and more express bus service while the North Shore gets NADA.  I think it's pathetic that the politicians on the North Shore don't have any balls to make moves the way the South Shore politicians do.  

 

 

Q. Can the MTA create an express bus from Bay Terrace to Lower Manhattan?

A. The QM2 and QM20 currently serve Bay Terrace with service to Midtown Manhattan. Several areas in Northeast Queens are served by express buses to either Midtown or Lower Manhattan. Suggestions were made that Bay Terrace could be better served with an express bus service to Lower Manhattan. The MTA Bus Company has previously studied the possibility of establishing a route to operate between Bay Terrace and Lower Manhattan. While such a route may be feasible at some point in the future, additional funding will need to be found in order to establish this route.

This is where the politicians in Northeast Queens have FAILED.  Their constituents WANT DIRECT express bus service to Downtown and they need to find the funding for it.  Simple as that.  I should point out that Republicans on Staten Island are the ones leading the way to improved express bus service while the Democrats on the North Shore beg and plead with the for service.  What a joke.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

Well that's all fine and dandy, but as it stands now, it's the Mid Island and South Shore that's getting the improvements and that was my point.  The South Shore in particular gets more and more express bus service while the North Shore gets NADA.  I think it's pathetic that the politicians on the North Shore don't have any balls to make moves the way the South Shore politicians do.  

 

This is where the politicians in Northeast Queens have FAILED.  Their constituents WANT DIRECT express bus service to Downtown and they need to find the funding for it.  Simple as that.  I should point out that Republicans on Staten Island are the ones leading the way to improved express bus service while the Democrats on the North Shore beg and plead with the for service.  What a joke.

 

Well, I guess in that case, we're going to hold everybody's feet to the fire then lol. The MTA and the politicians (mostly the MTA, though). 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, I guess in that case, we're going to hold everybody's feet to the fire then lol. The MTA and the politicians (mostly the MTA, though). 

I would say they're equally responsible.  If the can get away without providing the service and they know that they have push over politicians, then they will.  

[JerBear]

As for the QM1, no it wasn't mentioned in the NE Queens study.

So the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study gets released at the end of September. 6 weeks later we get the announcement of cutting the midday QM1 bus. They had to have been working on the QM1 change before the study was released. Why would they leave it out? Because it was a cut? Or is it because the consultants hired to write the study were busy finalizing the writing of the study while Transit staff was considering maybe cutting the QM1?

[checkmatechamp13]

I would say they're equally responsible.  If the can get away without providing the service and they know that they have push over politicians, then they will. 

 

My thinking is that if the community leaders themselves (not the politicians, but the regular people) are vocal enough and know what they're talking about, it can compensate to a degree.

 

At the last meeting, the MTA made the excuse "Oh, we have to be careful not to run buses down new streets, or people might complain". Somebody asked "When was the last time you made a major change like that?". They responded "Well, we extended the S55 a few years ago, but....nobody complained and the people actually loved it". 

 

So now they can't use that excuse, because somebody asked an intelligent question, and the MTA was forced to give an answer in front of a room full of people. If you have somebody like myself who's good with stats, they can't bring up any reasons with stats as to why a neighborhood has crappy service, because once again, they'll be called out in a room full of people.

 

So the North East Queens Comprehensive Bus Study gets released at the end of September. 6 weeks later we get the announcement of cutting the midday QM1 bus. They had to have been working on the QM1 change before the study was released. Why would they leave it out? Because it was a cut? Or is it because the consultants hired to write the study were busy finalizing the writing of the study while Transit staff was considering maybe cutting the QM1?

 

I don't think it was done by consultants. The SI study is being done in-house (by the MTA itself), so I assume the same is true for NE Queens.

 

In any case, the QM1 can be counted as a "routine service change", so they probably left it out because it would be bad publicity to "recommend" a service reduction in a study funded by a NE Queens politician. They can just go "Yeah, we'll study these changes, but in the meantime, we're analyzing our other routes to see if they're within the guidelines, and the midday QM1 isn't, so we're cutting it". 

Edited January 5, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[Via Garibaldi 8]

My thinking is that if the community leaders themselves (not the politicians, but the regular people) are vocal enough and know what they're talking about, it can compensate to a degree.

 

At the last meeting, the MTA made the excuse "Oh, we have to be careful not to run buses down new streets, or people might complain". Somebody asked "When was the last time you made a major change like that?". They responded "Well, we extended the S55 a few years ago, but....nobody complained and the people actually loved it". 

 

So now they can't use that excuse, because somebody asked an intelligent question, and the MTA was forced to give an answer in front of a room full of people. If you have somebody like myself who's good with stats, they can't bring up any reasons with stats as to why a neighborhood has crappy service, because once again, they'll be called out in a room full of people.

Ultimately community pressure is indeed important and helps, but it is the politicians that usually allocate funds OR work to find funds to reinstate or create new forms of service, and so all of the screaming in the world won't provide funding, and that's where Michael McMahon, Matthew Titone and Debbie Rose were USELESS.  All they did was act as if they were powerless to keep routes around, and the was essentially allowed to do exactly what they wanted.  

[bobtehpanda]

Long‐Term Recommendations

 Implement a pilot program for limited‐zone busservice on a Northeast Queens bus route, possibly to include the Q12, Q17, Q27, Q43, Q46, or Q88

 Analyze the feasibility of limited‐stop service on the Q12 and Q88 bus routes

 Study alternatives to expand north‐south service throughout the study area

 In addition to the two SBS routes along the Flushing‐Jamaica corridor, implement additional Select Bus Service along major transit corridors, possibly to include Hillside Avenue, Northern Boulevard, and Union Turnpike

 

Wait, what's the meaning of this segment? All of the buses on that bullet except for the Q12 and Q88 already have a limited service.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Wait, what's the meaning of this segment? All of the buses on that bullet except for the Q12 and Q88 already have a limited service.

It's like a service which makes local/limited stops until a certain point, then runs express to the subway or downtown area. Similar to the former version of the n6x, or even the current n22x.

Edited January 6, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[IAlam]

Wait, what's the meaning of this segment? All of the buses on that bullet except for the Q12 and Q88 already have a limited service.

it like when you ride the MNR or LIRR the New Haven line has two type Es of trains on that makes local stops heading out of Manhattan and a second which runs non stop between Manhattan and Stamford CT before then making all local stops. A limited zone bus is kind of like that. It primarily serves those who live future out compared to those who live closer to the station.

[checkmatechamp13]

It's like a service which makes local/limited stops until a certain point, then runs express to the subway or downtown area. Similar to the former version of the n6x, or even the current n22x.

 

 

it like when you ride the MNR or LIRR the New Haven line has two type Es of trains on that makes local stops heading out of Manhattan and a second which runs non stop between Manhattan and Stamford CT before then making all local stops. A limited zone bus is kind of like that. It primarily serves those who live future out compared to those who live closer to the station.

 

What these guys said.

 

I'm curious if that would be a third layer on top of the existing limited-stop service, or if it would replace the existing limited-stop service.

 

On an SI note, it would never work on the St. George-bound limiteds, because the busiest stops tend to be those closest to St. George (and on routes like the S98, there's a lot of turnover at stops like Broadway). Of course, for those who want a long nonstop run and live further out, there's always the express bus as VG8 would say. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Here's the proposal I sent in, regarding express buses.

 

X1: Eliminated during rush hour.

Justification: Resources reinvested into expanded X3 & X4 service for Downtown passengers and expanded X7 & X9 service for Midtown & Greenwich Village passengers.

 

X3/X4: Service rerouted to start/terminate at Worth Street. More frequent service on each route from resources obtained from X1 elimination.

Justification: X7 & X9 provide much quicker service from Staten Island to World Financial Center than the X3 & X4. Meanwhile, the X3 & X4 can be used to provide an alternative for X1 passengers between Park Place and Worth Street. (Lispenard Street northbound and White Street southbound are both lightly-used stops that are within walking distance of Worth Street)

 

The only purpose of the existing terminal at the World Financial Center is to facilitate run ons/run-offs from the West Side Highway.

Also, see this chart that summarizes the reasoning behind the current route structure of the Hylan Blvd express routes.

 

                                               East Midtown  West Midtown  Downtown

New Dorp via Hylan                        X2                  X9                     X3

Eltingville via Father Capodanno  X5                 X7                     X4

 

Presently, the only routes that don’t fit neatly into this matrix are the X1 & X8. The X8 is a little bit more proximate to the Wall Street area than the X4 is, and also serves Great Kills compared to the Richmond Avenue corridor in Eltingville.

 

With the elimination of the X1 and the improvement to X3 & X4 service, the X1 can be justifiably eliminated, leaving the X8 as the only “odd-one out”. The X1 currently has a peak direction frequency of approximately 7.5 buses per hour in the AM rush hour, and 10 buses per hour in the PM rush hour. I would estimate that one bus per hour added to the X7 & X9 each would be sufficient to handle Greenwich Village riders and World Financial Center riders. The remaining buses would be split between the X3 & X4, as the bulk of X1 ridership during rush hour comes from points south of Worth Street.

 

X17A: During the peak of AM rush hour, alternate buses start at the Marsh Avenue & Windham Loop stop. The other half of the buses would start at Annadale Road & Drumgoogle Road West, but would run straight up Richmond Avenue after serving the Eltingville Transit Center, bypassing the Marsh Avenue loop. Both variants of the X17A would continue to serve all Richmond Avenue stops north of Richmond Hill Road. The Annadale variant would also continue to serve the stop at Richmond Avenue & Yukon Avenue.

 

The same pattern could operate in the PM rush hour, but it may be more trouble than it’s worth, as you could have Marsh Avenue riders mistakenly get on buses that bypass the Marsh Avenue loop, so it is likely not worthwhile.

 

Justification: This is an attempt at a Downtown Super-Express from the Eltingville Transit Center. Since Lower Manhattan express buses perform better traveling through the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel than they would traveling through the Holland Tunnel, it doesn’t make sense to backtrack to the West Shore Expressway like the X21 does.

 

The X17 is the quickest route to Lower Manhattan from the Eltingville Transit Center, especially since the bus lane was built on the Staten Island Expressway. So passengers leaving from the Eltingville Transit Center in the morning have a slightly quicker ride to Lower Manhattan. Additionally, for the buses that start at Marsh Avenue & Windham Loop, the MTA saves money in deadheading costs to travel from the Yukon Bus Depot to Annadale Road & Drumgoogle Road West.

No additional signage would be needed, since it is on the pickup-only portion of the X17A.

 

X22: Create Downtown Branch terminating at Worth Street.

 

Justification: The X19 is essentially the only express bus route serving Lower Manhattan in the “deep South Shore” during rush hour. The X17A only serves a small section of Annadale. This would provide residents of Rossville, Woodrow, Pleasant Plains, Richmond Valley and Tottenville with direct access to Lower Manhattan, rather than having to park in the vicinity of Arthur Kill Road & Huguenot Avenue for the X19, or at the Eltingville Transit Center for the X17A.

 

X22: Create off-peak and reverse-peak service that would combine the new Downtown branch with the existing Midtown branch, in addition to a diversion to serve the South Avenue corridor in the vicinity of the Teleport.

In Manhattan, the MTA can run the route similar to the X1/10/17 off-peak patterns along 6^th Avenue, run similar to the BM routes (take half the Downtown Loop northbound, half the Downtown Loop southbound, but run up the FDR Drive to Midtown), or run like the X14 (makes stops on Water Street only, and doesn’t stop in the vicinity of Church Street) as it sees fit.

The main problem with any routing involving Water Street is that it is less convenient to the Manhattan subway lines, compared to Church Street & Broadway.

 

X31: Truncate buses to Marsh Avenue & Windham Loop.

 

Justification: X17J and X21 provide faster alternative from Eltingville Transit Center to Midtown. Cost savings to be used elsewhere in the system.

 

               South Shore-Midtown Express Restructuring

 

The following changes would have to be done as one restructuring proposal in order to be effective.

X17J: Terminate service at Eltingville Transit Center. Reinvest resources in X23/24/25.

 

Justification: X21 serves Arthur Kill Road passengers. X24 serves Arden Avenue passengers. X25 serves Huguenot Avenue and Drumgoogle Road passengers.

 

X23: Uses Huguenot Avenue to Woodrow Road rather than Arthur Kill Road to Woodrow Road. Alternates with X25 to provide consistent service along northern portion of Huguenot Avenue.

 

Justification: Provides quicker route to Princes Bay. X21 serves Arthur Kill Road passengers. X24 serves passengers in vicinity of Arden Avenue & Woodrow Road. Remaining Woodrow Road passengers can either use restructured S56 service, walk, or drive to an express bus stop. This is essentially the only case where I somewhat advocate for people to drive, since there’s no way to effectively serve the Woodrow Road corridor. (With the exception of running the X17J via Woodrow Road, but with all the other services that feed into the West Shore Expressway, ridership would likely be too low to justify the service).

 

X24: Uses Arden Avenue instead of Huguenot Avenue between Arthur Kill Road & Woodrow Road.

 

Justification: Replaces X23 at Arthur Kill Road & Carlyle Green. Replaces X17J along Arden Avenue. Quicker route for passengers traveling south of Woodrow Road.

 

X25: New route from Arden Avenue & Drumgoogle Road East/West to Midtown (nothing to do with the original X25 in Manhattan lol). Inbound buses take Drumgoogle Road West to Huguenot Avenue, and then Huguenot Avenue straight to the “checkpoint” at Arthur Kill Road. Outbound buses take Huguenot Avenue to Drumgoogle Road East to terminate at Arden Avenue.

 

Alternates with X23 to provide consistent service along northern portion of Huguenot Avenue.

 

Justification: More direct connection from Huguenot Park & Ride to Midtown compared to X17J. More direct connection from Drumgoogle Road, and the central portion of Huguenot Avenue to Midtown compared to X17J

Edited April 2, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[Gotham Bus Co.]

At the last meeting, the MTA made the excuse "Oh, we have to be careful not to run buses down new streets, or people might complain". Somebody asked "When was the last time you made a major change like that?". 

 

June 2010:  The Q15A started running on 10th Avenue between Clintonville Street and 154th Street. People did complain, and even physically blocked buses. Six years later, it's still there.

[IAlam]

June 2010:  The Q15A started running on 10th Avenue between Clintonville Street and 154th Street. People did complain, and even physically blocked buses. Six years later, it's still there.

isn't that technically illegal 

[checkmatechamp13]

June 2010:  The Q15A started running on 10th Avenue between Clintonville Street and 154th Street. People did complain, and even physically blocked buses. Six years later, it's still there.

 

Well, the only new streets the MTA would be running routes down would be streets where the residents of that area were asking for service. If the politically involved residents are asking for service, and none of those politically involved residents are opposing it, then the MTA is basically hiding behind people who don't exist as an excuse not to provide needed service.

 

isn't that technically illegal 

 

Yes, it's "interfering with the operation of a transit vehicle" or something to that effect.

Edited April 3, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[BJC]

How come the S89 doesn't run during  the midday yet??ridership doesn't justify it?

Edited April 3, 2016 by BJC

[S78 via Hylan]

How come the S89 doesn't run during the midday yet??ridership doesn't justify it?

It doesn't and to add, ridership has actually decreased. Edited April 3, 2016 by S78 via Hylan