Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

[BJC]

I know the 89 doesn't run outside of rush hour,I was just asking whats the reason being.I know there was discussion on here

in the past wanted the 89 to run outside of rush hour.

[checkmatechamp13]

I know the 89 doesn't run outside of rush hour,I was just asking whats the reason being.I know there was discussion on here

in the past wanted the 89 to run outside of rush hour.

 

That's his point: It doesn't justify running outside of rush hour.

 

Also, the demographics of who rides the S89 over the Bayonne Bridge are very similar to the express buses. (A lot of office workers going to Jersey City & Hoboken). Obviously reverse-peak (and the intra-SI ridership, which makes up around 60% of the overall ridership) is more working-class, but the point is that the main ridership base it's geared towards is 9-5 office workers. 

[Hound]

That's his point: It doesn't justify running outside of rush hour.

 

Also, the demographics of who rides the S89 over the Bayonne Bridge are very similar to the express buses. (A lot of office workers going to Jersey City & Hoboken). Obviously reverse-peak (and the intra-SI ridership, which makes up around 60% of the overall ridership) is more working-class, but the point is that the main ridership base it's geared towards is 9-5 office workers. 

They should add stops bet. the bridge & the HBLR station. There's businesses & industry there that could probably add ridership.

[BJC]

That's his point: It doesn't justify running outside of rush hour.

 

Also, the demographics of who rides the S89 over the Bayonne Bridge are very similar to the express buses. (A lot of office workers going to Jersey City & Hoboken). Obviously reverse-peak (and the intra-SI ridership, which makes up around 60% of the overall ridership) is more working-class, but the point is that the main ridership base it's geared towards is 9-5 office workers. 

I know that,he already said it in the post....In his original post he assuming I didnt know the 89 was a rush hour bus,in which I knew...My post was just asking why it doesnt run midday and he answer the question....

 

 I kinda figure thats how the 89 ridership is during the AM and PM rush hour.(reverse peak detection)

Edited April 4, 2016 by BJC

[S78 via Hylan]

I know that,he already said it in the post....In his original post he assuming I didnt know the 89 was a rush hour bus,in which I knew...My post was just asking why it doesnt run midday and he answer the question....

I didn't assume anything. I was answering your question like you said.

[checkmatechamp13]

They should add stops bet. the bridge & the HBLR station. There's businesses & industry there that could probably add ridership.

 

They should cut it back to 8th Street to save money. The HBLR, and I believe the #81/120 and Broadway Bus are all in the immediate area (as well as the #10/119 a few blocks away). It actually makes it a little easier for any passengers looking to go to Journal Square via bus.

[IAlam]

They should cut it back to 8th Street to save money. The HBLR, and I believe the #81/120 and Broadway Bus are all in the immediate area (as well as the #10/119 a few blocks away). It actually makes it a little easier for any passengers looking to go to Journal Square via bus.

I think they can't because of construction 

[checkmatechamp13]

Hopefully we can have an interesting discussion, instead of trolls randomly downvoting me or making poorly-written, uninformed comments. That being said, here's an explanation of my CartoDB proposal for the local routes. Note that some of the proposals may slightly differ from what's being said on the map.

 

S40/90: 
•Alternate buses terminate at the West Shore Plaza (via the Teleport) during off-peak hours.

Justification: 
•S46/96 truncated to Port Richmond High School (except overnight), S83 extended to Arlington, S95 is rush hours only, so S40 covers South Avenue portion.

S42:

•Restructured with S54 to travel via Richmond Terrace-Franklin Avenue-Arnold Street (Prospect Avenue eastbound)-Lafayette Avenue-Castleton Avenue-Clove Road-Delafield Avenue-Manor Road-Brielle Avenue, to terminate at Seaview Hospital.

Justification: 
•Provides direct connection from Manor Road corridor to St. George Ferry Terminal
•Supplements busy S46/96 route on Castleton Avenue. 
•Quicker connection from Cottage Hill neighborhood to St. George Ferry compared to present-day S42. 
•Provides Cottage Hill with direct access to points west. 
•Runs 7 days a week (restoring weekend service to Manor Road corridor and Cottage Hill neighborhood). 
•S75 provides service to Great Kills neighborhood.

S44/94: 
•Routing changed in vicinity of Staten Island Mall to travel via Ring Road East instead of Ring Road West.

Justification: 
•Ring Road East is closer to the residential areas east of Marsh Avenue. Those residential areas have an autoless household rate of over 20%. Additionally, there is an education complex with multiple schools along Westport Street.

S46/96: 
•Truncated to Port Richmond High School (Nicholas Avenue & Charles Avenue) at all times except overnight and late evenings, when S83 doesn’t run. 
•During rush hour in the peak direction, S46 buses would start/end at Clove Road, with a stop added at Heberton Avenue on the S96 to accommodate local riders there (there’s already a certain number of S46s that start Clove in the morning. With the S96 starting at Nicholas Avenue, it can easily handle all the ferry-bound local riders between Nicholas & Clove)

Justification: 
•S83 would cover ridership base between Mariners Harbor & West New Brighton.
•S95 would provide direct rush hour service from Mariners Harbor & Elm Park to St. George. 
•Truncation provides more reliable service for passengers along Castleton Avenue heading towards St. George.

S48/98: 
•S48 unchanged
•S98 rerouted to travel via Forest Avenue-Goethals Road North to Elizabeth NJT station (drop-off only), and then continues to Newark Airport. Runs 7 days a week (with some rush hour buses still starting/terminating in Arlington)

Justification: 
•S98 provides direct connection from the heart of the North Shore to communities on the other side of the Goethals Bridge. 
•Provides some additional service to the (low-ridership) stint of Forest Avenue that would lose some S40 service (frequency-wise, since some buses would run the full length of South Avenue)

S51/81: 
•AM buses from Grant City to St. George converted to S81 trips. The stops would be the same as the PM S81 trips, with the addition of stops at Fingerboard Road, Hylan Blvd, and Lynhurst Avenue. 

Justification: 
•The PM S81 is great in the sense that it’s basically a straight shot to Rosebank, but there’s only one limited stop in the whole neighborhood! Those extra stops would allow more people to take advantage of the limited-stop service, while still keeping it reasonably quick for those further out.

S52: 
•Buses would stay straight on Sand Lane instead of detouring to serve the South Beach Houses. 
•The resources would be reinvested on the southern end, where buses would be extended down Seaview Avenue (Garretson Avenue eastbound) to Richmond Road. 
•Overnight service added between St. George and Sand Lane & Father Capodanno Blvd (60 minute headways, 1 bus required)
•During rush hours, additional buses operate between Stapleton & St. George to maintain adequate capacity along Jersey Street corridor.

Justification: 
•New S75 covers McClean Avenue and South Beach Houses. 
•Southern extension connects hospital patients, visitors and staff with buses on Hylan Blvd & Richmond Road, as well as the SIR. 
•Overnight service added to serve Jersey Street corridor, as well as replace S78 overnight service on Tompkins Avenue (see S78 restructuring).

S53: 
•Buses truncated to present-day S54 terminal at Broadway & Richmond Terrace. 
•Service slightly reduced, with introduction of S75 & S83 routes. 
•Late evening and overnight service rerouted to terminate at Port Richmond High School.

Justification: 
•S83 covers Brooklyn-bound passengers from Port Richmond, as well as points further west along the North Shore. 
•For overnight service, it is important that the direct connection to the area in the vicinity of Port Richmond Avenue & Castleton Avenue be maintained, as that is a major stop on the S53. (Note that this is NOT the same as “Port Richmond Terminal” at Richmond Terrace, which sees very few boardings/alightings).

S54: 
•Eliminated. See S42.
•Present-day S54 trippers southbound out of Susan Wagner High School relabeled as S100, similar to 400-series Bee Line routes.

S55: 
•Southern end rerouted to Perth Amboy NJT station. Service travels via Bloomingdale Road-Englewood Avenue-Veterans Road West-Bricktown Way-Route 440-Amboy Avenue Exit-Amboy Avenue-New Brunswick Avenue-Elm Street. Eastbound service runs similar path.
•Rerouted to take Annadale Road-Arden Avenue-Arthur Kill Road instead of running straight down Annadale Road.
•Evening service added on 30 minute headways, weekend service added on 60 minute headways.
•Travels via Ring Road East instead of Marsh Avenue.
•Weekdays, schedules coordinated with S72/73 on Arthur Kill Road to provide 10 minute headways between the Eltingville Transit Center and Arthur Kill Road & Arden Avenue.

Justification: 
•Perth Amboy extension improves connectivity from Staten Island to Central New Jersey. Additionally, the route provides a direct connection from the South Shore (and SIR at Princes Bay) to the Bricktown Mall and South Shore Commons.
•Provides direct connection from Arden Avenue corridor to Annadale SIR station.
•S56 rerouted to Woodrow Road to provide service within walking distance of some Annadale Road passengers. The remainder can either walk to Richmond Avenue for the frequent S59/79/89, or to the S55 at Annadale Road & Arden Avenue (The Richmond Parkway, and a local park take up much of the catchment area west of Annadale Road).
•Consolidates local bus operations in vicinity of SI Mall, giving passengers the maximum number of choices, evening out crowding and making transfers between routes easier

S56: 
•Extended to the College of Staten Island. 
•Evening service added on 30 minute headways. Weekend service added on 60 minute headways (northern terminal would be SI Mall to allow for interlining with the S55).
•Additionally, weekend service would travel on the S55 path south of Amboy Road, traveling to the Bricktown Mall & Perth Amboy rather than Tottenville High School.
•Travels via Ring Road East instead of Marsh Avenue.

Justification: 
•CSI extension provides direct connection from CSI to South Shore, thus providing enough ridership to justify evening service. 
•Weekend service connects more of South Shore to Bricktown and Perth Amboy (though I expect the S55 to have higher ridership, compared to the S56). 
•Service along Richmond Hill Road provides more coverage to a census tract where approximately 20% of households don’t own a car.
•Consolidates local bus operations in vicinity of SI Mall, giving passengers the maximum number of choices, evening out crowding and making transfers between routes easier.

S57: 
•Travels up Jewett Avenue and Castleton Avenue instead of Watchogue Road, Willowbrook Road, and Decker Avenue.

Justification: 
•S66 rerouted to cover Watchogue Road. S58 covers Willowbrook Road on weekdays (otherwise, Willowbrook Road passengers are within walking distance of the S59 & S66). S57 serves as alternative for S54 riders on Manor Road wishing to travel to points south of Seaview Hospital, becoming a direct north-south route.

S58: 
•New route created traveling from the College of Staten Island to Morningstar Road & Richmond Terrace via Woolley Avenue, Willowbrook Road, and Morningstar Road. Weekdays only, 30 minute headways.

Justification: 
•Provides a direct connection from the College of Staten Island to the North Shore. Can be combined with the S56 to provide another direct connection from the North Shore to the deep South Shore (a lot of people take the S55/56/74 to the Eltingville Transit Center to catch the S59/89 beyond the SI Mall, towards the North Shore). However, traffic around CSI makes that problematic, so if it is to do that, it should stop on the outskirts of the campus at Jasper Street.

S59: 
•Extended to Tottenville full-time. 
•Bypasses Yukon Avenue-Forest Hill Road detour. 
•Overnight service added (60 minute headways, 2 buses required)
•Routing changed in vicinity of Staten Island Mall to travel via Ring Road East instead of Ring Road West.
 

Justification: 
•Tottenville extension necessary due to S78 restructuring. See below. 
•Island “station” scheduled to be constructed for S79-SBS service at Yukon Avenue for passengers traveling to the South Shore. For passengers traveling to/from the North Shore, the S44/94 already provide direct service to the area in the immediate vicinity of the Yukon Depot. Additionally, the reroute to travel via Ring Road East will also have the S59 make an additional stop on Platinum Avenue, which shoppers and bus operators can also use to access the S59.
•Overnight service provides coverage along both Hylan Blvd (west of Richmond Avenue) and Richmond Avenue, connecting passengers to/from the SIR, X1 express bus, or east-west routes to St. George.
•Ring Road East is closer to the residential areas east of Marsh Avenue. Those residential areas have an autoless household rate of over 20%. Additionally, there is an education complex with multiple schools along Westport Street.

S61/91:
•Sunday evening span extended by an hour in each direction
•AM pattern (or similar) should operate in the PM.
•Service can be routed to Ring Road East instead of Marsh Avenue (placing it one block further from the residents and schools, but one block closer to the SI Mall). An objective analysis would have to be conducted to see if it would be justified, as S61/91 ridership is rather distinct from the ridership of the other routes in the vicinity of the SI Mall (it is rare to see people transfer from the S61/91 to another route heading further south, and the S61/91 can only be used interchangeably with the S44/94 to reach the St. George Ferry Terminal itself).
•Eastbound stop at Victory Blvd & Mountainview Avenue eliminated on S91/92.

Justification: 
•The back-to-back bus meeting the ferry that arrives at 9PM is a holdover from the days when the ferry operated every hour after the 8PM arrival. With the addition of half hour service throughout the evening, bus ridership is more spread out and higher overall, which could justify a few later trips. Likewise, 8PM is too early for the last bus leaving the vicinity of the SI Mall.
•In the AM rush (peak direction), the S91 handles passengers south of Victory Blvd & Jewett Avenue, while the S62 & S66 handle local passengers along Victory Blvd. In the PM rush, there is an excess of local service in the peak direction, with the S61 operating every 30-40 minutes when the S62 & S66 already operate. Either those extra S61s should be eliminated, or alternate S62s should be eliminated. (So passengers looking for local service west of Highland Avenue have a choice of the S61 or S62 but not both). Both peak-direction S61 & S62 buses are virtually empty once they pass Jewett Avenue, since passengers opt for the quicker S91 & S92 to reach points in Willowbrook and beyond. The savings can be reinvested elsewhere.
•Mountainview Avenue is already served by the S62/66 and slows down limited-stop buses disproportionately to its ridership.

S62/92:
•CSI short-turns extended to either Richmond Avenue, the Teleport, or Travis, depending on the time of day.
•Rush hour service service would travel to/from the Teleport (alternate reverse-peak buses departing St. George from approximately 6:45AM to 9:15AM, and their corresponding ferry-bound buses roughly 45 minutes later). Likewise, the present-day CSI short-turns departing St. George between approximately 1:15PM and 5:30PM could be extended to the Teleport to provide return trips towards St. George roughly 45 minutes later.
•The last few S62 short-turns of the evening (with corresponding S92s) would be extended to Richmond Avenue.
•Richmond Avenue short-turns can turn around via Victory Blvd-Richmond Avenue-Clifton Street-Jones Street-Victory Blvd.
•Saturdays all short-turns that aren’t deadheading to the depot before/after their trip should run to/from Travis. The rest should terminate at Richmond Avenue.
•Eastbound stop at Victory Blvd & Mountainview Avenue eliminated on S91.

Justification:
•Teleport trips improve connectivity to points east of the Teleport along Victory Blvd.
•CSI isn’t the major stop that it used to be. As the S93 and CSI-Ferry shuttle have gained popularity, the S62/92 has lost popularity. There used to be days when the crowds would build up and you could fill up an S62 short-turn with CSI students alone, but those days are no longer.
•In the late midday and early PM rush, the westbound S62 sees a lot of passengers (especially students) traveling to points west of Richmond Avenue.
•However, as enrollment has grown, there are a decent amount of passengers seeking service westward from CSI, even for the short hop to Richmond Avenue to connect to other buses.
•Since the S62 is based out of the Yukon Depot, those deadheading buses have to travel west along Victory Blvd anyway. They might as well benefit passengers traveling to Richmond Avenue.
•On Saturdays, the seven buses used to operate service in the midday and early PM rush can be used to operate all service to Travis (105 minute cycle time / 15 minute headway = 7 buses). This is already in effect weekday middays.
•Mountainview Avenue is already served by the S62/66 and slows down limited-stop buses disproportionately to its ridership.

S66:
•Operates between Bulls Head/Graniteville and St. George via Watchogue Road, Victory Blvd, and Grymes Hill.
•Ferry-bound buses start at Goethals Road North & Richmond Avenue, take Goethals Road North-South Avenue-Fahy Avenue-Lamberts Lane-Richmond Avenue to pick up all ferry-bound passengers, then continue to St. George via the path described above.
•Bulls Head/Graniteville-bound buses travel via Grymes Hill, Victory Blvd, and Watchogue Road/Deppe Place. Once reaching Richmond Avenue & Goethals Road North, they take Goethals Road North-South Avenue-Fahy Avenue-Lamberts Lane, terminating at Richmond Avenue. After their layover, buses would either deadhead to Richmond Avenue & Goethals Road North to start a trip towards St. George, or deadhead back to the depot, depending on their schedule.
•This pattern in Bulls Head/Graniteville is similar to the pattern of the QM express buses in Midtown Manhattan.
•Operates 7 days a week.

Justification:
•Provides direct east-west route across the Westerleigh/Graniteville/Bulls Head area. 
•7 day service added to serve Grymes Hill neighborhood. 
•Brand-new coverage added to Graniteville/Bulls Head.
•More effective than present-day route to Port Richmond.

S72:
•Created from S74/84 split at Eltingville Transit Center. Western portion renamed S72.
•Travels via Correll Avenue instead of Woodrow Road to increase catchment area without being circuitous.
•Turns south on Bloomingdale Road to provide direct service to Bricktown Mall.
•After Bricktown Mall, continues to serve commercial district along Page Avenue between Boscombe Avenue and Amboy Road.
•Terminates in vicinity of Tottenville SIR station
•Late evenings and overnight, S74 extended over path of S72 to provide one-seat ride between St. George and points west of the Eltingville Transit Center.

Justification:
•During the daytime, turnover at the Eltingville Transit Center is higher than any other point on the route (which would increase even more with the local buses being coordinated with the SIR on the South Shore), and the S74/84 is one of the longest routes in the city, which negative impacts reliability. 
•Increases residential and commercial coverage on the South Shore, while avoiding lightly-used portion of Arthur Kill Road.
•Late evenings and overnights, there’s little to no reliability issues, and the S55, S56, and S77 wouldn’t operate, so the one-seat ride to Arden Heights and Rossville is more necessary.

S73:
•Weekday-only route serving low-ridership, industrial portions of Arthur Kill Road that wouldn’t be served by the S72.
•Requires only 2 buses to operate 30 minute headways.
Justification:
•Arthur Kill Road west of Rossville Avenue is low-ridership, but does have light industrial activity, as well as a few residential pockets, and shouldn’t lose all service.
•The Charleston Bus Depot is halfway through the route, which allows deadheading to be minimized through the use of operator reliefs and/or short-turns at the depot.

S74/84:
•Truncated at the Eltingville Transit Center except late evenings and overnights (see S72/S73 above)
•During rush hours, S74 short-turns operate from Targee Street & DeKalb Street to St. George (AM rush), and St. George to Richmond Road & Narrows Road South (PM rush). S84 runs limited-stop in this segment, and local south of the Staten Island Expressway.

Justification:
•S74 short-turns should be reliable and very easy to manage, due to their short length.
•The portion north of the Staten Island Expressway is the busiest portion of the route, and the short-turns reflect that. Although the S84 makes few stops between Narrows Road South and the Eltingville Transit Center, very few people are on board the bus to benefit from that.

S75:
•Local version of S79
•Travels via Great Kills to replace S54 (Takes X7/8 route to increase catchment area, compared to present-day S54)
•Travels via McClean Avenue to replace S52 in the vicinity of South Beach Houses. Then takes S53 path to Bay Ridge (allowing for service to be reduced there)
•Runs 7 days a week, 5AM-10PM

Justification:
•Provides additional local service along Hylan Blvd corridor.
•Supplements busy S53 & S79 routes

S76/86:
•S76 runs via Osgood Avenue/Mosel Avenue and Clove Road instead of running the full length of Vanderbilt Avenue. (Rush hour short-turns run to/from Clove Road & Targee Street, on Clove Road itself)
•S86 has AM northbound service added (The peak direction S76 & S86 will run every 12-15 minutes each during rush hour. Since local service on the S51, S74, and S76 is being reduced overall, in favor of more limited-stop service, the savings from the reduction of S74 & S76 service south of the Staten Island Expressway would be reinvested into improving the local service so that local passengers don’t have to worry about being flagged).

Justification:
•Osgood Avenue/Mosel Avenue is on the eastern edge of a census tract with a 32% rate of autoless households, but yet is beyond a half-mile from local bus service (since the SIR tracks block residents from accessing S78 service). Long-term, if a SIR station were constructed in that area, it would serve as an adequate substitute for bus service.
•Long-haul service operating limited-stop, and the local service operating as a short-turn will improve reliability overall, while resulting in savings from the short-turn service, as well as savings from the reduced runtime on the limited-stop runs.
•Busiest section of both S74/84 & S76/86 is north of the Staten Island Expressway

S77:
•In conjunction with full-time S59 extension to Tottenville, replaces S78 local service south of New Dorp.
•Operates between New Dorp Lane & Hylan Blvd, and Arthur Kill Road & Carlyle Green via Hylan Blvd, Luten Avenue, and Huguenot Avenue.
•Turnaround in New Dorp via Hylan Blvd-New Dorp Lane-Mill Road-Ebbitts Street (layover on New Dorp between Hylan & Mill)
•Turnaround in Arden Heights via Huguenot Avenue-Arthur Kill Road-Arden Avenue-West Service Road-Arthur Kill Road-Huguenot Avenue (layover either on Arthur Kill at Carlyle Green, or if there’s no space there, on Arden Avenue between Arthur Kill Road and West Service Road.
•Operates between 5AM and 11PM daily.
•Timed connection from New Dorp-bound buses to St. George-bound trains at SIR Huguenot (and vice versa for outbound trains and buses)

Justification:
•Provides network coverage along Huguenot Avenue corridor, which contains a dense residential complex at the northern end, as well as several schools (Tottenville High School, I.S.7, I.S.75, and Our Lady Star of the Sea).

S78:
•Truncated to Ebbitts Street to improve reliability.
•Overnight service replaced with S52, S59 and S79 overnight service.
•Operates via Steuben Street instead of taking detour to St. Joseph Hill High School.

Justification:
•S59, S75 and S77 cover southern portion of S78.
•St. Joseph Hill High School already covered by special S78 trippers, as well as S52 & S53 buses. Quicker route saves time and improves reliability.
•Adds local service to Steuben Street & West Fingerboard Road stop, which was lost when the S79 became an SBS route.

S79:
•Overnight service added. From 10PM to 5AM, service operates all-local.
•Routing changed in vicinity of Staten Island Mall to travel via Ring Road East instead of Ring Road West

Justification:
•SIR provides direct service to/from St. George from general vicinity of Hylan Blvd corridor. S79 provides direct service to Bay Ridge, as well as additional frequency along Richmond Avenue. Passengers can also take S59 to Eltingville or S79 to Eltingville or Old Town to reach SIR.
•Consolidates local bus operations in vicinity of SI Mall, giving passengers the maximum number of choices, evening out crowding and making transfers between routes easier.

S83:
•Operates from Arlington to Bay Ridge via S48/98 route from Arlington to South Avenue & Brabant Street, via present-day S46/96 route from South Avenue & Brabant Street to Castleton Avenue & Port Richmond Avenue, via S53 route from Castleton Avenue & Port Richmond Avenue to Clove Road & Victory Blvd, and S93 route from Clove Road & Victory Blvd to Bay Ridge.
•Operates from approximately 5AM to 10PM weekdays, 6AM to 9PM weekends.
•Late evening and overnight service replaced by S46 & S53.

Justification:
•Provides direct limited-stop service from North Shore to Bay Ridge.
•Provides brand-new direct link from Arlington, Mariners Harbor, and Elm Park to Bay Ridge (as well as easier connection to SIR, and local routes on Richmond Road and Hylan Blvd).
•Ferry-bound riders west of Port Richmond High School can still take S40/90, S44/94 or S48/98 bus to St. George, or S95 bus during rush hour for a one-seat ride. S40/90 are already quicker, and expanded S98 service will make service quicker along Forest Avenue.

S89:
•Truncated to 8th Street HBLR station instead of 34th Street HBLR station.

Justification:
•Saves money that can be reinvested into other service.

S93:
•Stop added outside entrance to College of Staten Island.

Justification:
•Addresses safety issues resulting from penultimate stop being located at Victory Blvd & Willow Road East, forcing Willowbrook and Bulls Head residents to walk in the possible tick-infested grass alongside speeding cars on Victory Blvd.

S95: 
•Rush hour route from West Shore Plaza (and Teleport) to St. George Ferry via South Avenue, Brabant Street, Walker Street, Port Richmond Avenue, and Richmond Terrace. (No Grandview Avenue, since no buses will be starting/terminating there. Unfortunately, buses will still make all those turns by Union, Van Pelt, etc. since there’s no other way to get through that part of Mariners Harbor)
•Resources will come from the truncation of the S46/96 to Port Richmond High School, as well as a slight reduction in S90 service. Buses will run in both directions during rush hour, since there’s a school over at the Teleport, and running through the heart of Mariners Harbor & Elm Park serves their needs better than running along Richmond Terrace. Ferry-bound buses would leave the WSP from approximately 6AM-10AM and 2PM-6PM. West Shore Plaza-bound buses would leave St. George from approximately 6:30AM-9AM and 3PM-10PM. 

Justification:
•Quicker ride from Mariners Harbor, Graniteville, and Bloomfield/Chelsea to St. George Ferry.
•Maintains one-seat ride from central portion of Mariners Harbor to St. George during rush 

S100:
•Present-day S54 trippers from Susan Wagner High School to Great Kills/Eltingville relabeled similar to Bee Line 400-series routes

Justification:
•There is sufficient ridership at school dismissal times to maintain buses going along that routing, but insufficient ridership to justify a regular route.

S101:
•Present-day S55 trippers from Tottenville High School to Rossville relabeled similar to Bee Line 400-series routes

Justification:
•There is sufficient ridership at school dismissal times to maintain buses going along that routing, but insufficient ridership to justify a regular route.

S102:
•Present-day 4 trippers from Tottenville High School to Eltingville Transit Center relabeled similar to Bee Line 400-series routes

Justification:
•There is sufficient ridership at school dismissal times to maintain buses going along that routing, but insufficient ridership to justify a regular route. 

Edited April 10, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[IAlam]

Currently if the MTA wanted the s89 to terminate at 8th ave, then they would have to do a complete re route that would be even longer than the current route that would make the service unattractive. Until the construction is done by the NJ side the ramp leading to the 8th st station is closed. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Currently if the MTA wanted the s89 to terminate at 8th ave, then they would have to do a complete re route that would be even longer than the current route that would make the service unattractive. Until the construction is done by the NJ side the ramp leading to the 8th st station is closed. 

 

Alright, fair enough. But once the construction is done, it should definitely be cut back to 8th Street.

 

On the SI side, I'm inclined to say it should just take Forest-Trantor, instead of doing that big loop to serve Walker Street. Granted, Walker Street is a fairly busy stop, but still, ridership south of Forest is taking a hit because of it.

[BJC]

How bad is the S78,reliability wise?So,with your service adjustment to the 78,I have to transfer at lease two buses just to travel

between Tottenville and New Drop?You could at lease create a direct route that run between Bricktown Mall and New Drop.Passenger dont have time to transfer from  bus to bus to bus along Hylan....Since you want to shorten the 78,why not have it run to Richmond AV?

 

 This my three proposal ideas for the 78 route:

 

 1.S78 terminated at Richmond AV,riders will transfer to the S59 for service south along Hylan  in which it'll be extended to Bricktown Mall .

 2.S73 extended past Tottenville train STA to Richmond AV....so riders will have a direct transfer with the 78.(I rather do this proposal than the other two)

 3.S72 could run between New Drop and Bricktown Mall,instead Hugunot.....S78 will terminated at New Drop

 

IMO,I like the current 78 service,it does it job by covering all the areas in one shout.There's no need to change it at all.It might look good on paper,but in reality it wont work out.

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by BJC

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

How bad is the S78,reliability wise?So,with your service adjustment to the 78,I have to transfer at lease two buses just to travel

between Tottenville and New Drop?You could at lease create a direct route that run between Bricktown Mall and New Drop.Passenger dont have time to transfer from  bus to bus to bus along Hylan....Since you want to shorten the 78,why not have it run to Richmond AV?

 

 This my three proposal ideas for the 78 route:

 

 1.S78 terminated at Richmond AV,riders will transfer to the S59 for service south along Hylan  in which it'll be extended to Bricktown Mall .

 2.S73 extended past Tottenville train STA to Richmond AV....so riders will have a direct transfer with the 78.(I rather do this proposal than the other two)

 3.S72 could run between New Drop and Bricktown Mall,instead Hugunot.....S78 will terminated at New Drop

 

IMO,I like the current 78 service,it does it job by covering all the areas in one shout.There's no need to change it at all.It might look good on paper,but in reality it wont work out.

 

I doubt many people are taking it from one end to another. Hypothetically speaking, one can take the S74 and transfer to whatever bus takes them where they need to go. 

 

I only have two concerns regarding the proposals, one of them being this S77/S78 pattern. I think there should be a bus to St.George from points south of New Dorp. I would have that bus go to Hugenot Avenue as one route. I have no problem with the late-night pattern, granted that the S78 and S59 are timed at Richmond Avenue.

 

My other concern is the S83 proposal. I still think there should be S46 bus service to Forest Avenue because the trip towards Manhattan would be longer, despite it being a limited. You can still keep the S83 as you proposed it.

[BJC]

I doubt many people are taking it from one end to another. Hypothetically speaking, one can take the S74 and transfer to whatever bus takes them where they need to go. 

 

I only have two concerns regarding the proposals, one of them being this S77/S78 pattern. I think there should be a bus to St.George from points south of New Dorp. I would have that bus go to Hugenot Avenue as one route. I have no problem with the late-night pattern, granted that the S78 and S59 are timed at Richmond Avenue.

 

My other concern is the S83 proposal. I still think there should be S46 bus service to Forest Avenue because the trip towards Manhattan would be longer, despite it being a limited. You can still keep the S83 as you proposed it.

You could send the 78 to Hugenot and the S77  to Tottenville and beyond....I can deal with that.Riders will make one transfer from one bus to another.

Edited April 12, 2016 by BJC

[checkmatechamp13]

I doubt many people are taking it from one end to another. Hypothetically speaking, one can take the S74 and transfer to whatever bus takes them where they need to go. 

 

I only have two concerns regarding the proposals, one of them being this S77/S78 pattern. I think there should be a bus to St.George from points south of New Dorp. I would have that bus go to Hugenot Avenue as one route. I have no problem with the late-night pattern, granted that the S78 and S59 are timed at Richmond Avenue.

 

My other concern is the S83 proposal. I still think there should be S46 bus service to Forest Avenue because the trip towards Manhattan would be longer, despite it being a limited. You can still keep the S83 as you proposed it.

 

 

Remember that under my proposal, the S74 would also be split (the ridership patterns are much more favorable for a split on the S74 vs. the S78). So riders would either take the S55 or S72 to the ETC, and then catch the S75 or S79 to get down to Hylan Blvd. Still not too terrible.

 

But yes, I'm inclined to agree with you that there's no really good point to split the S78 at. New Dorp is just the best of a bunch of mediocre points at best. But I did a quick Google Map of my route, and apparently, St. George-Arden Heights via Hylan is around 15 miles, whereas the current S78 is around 19 miles.

 

Maybe if the S74 were split at the ETC, you could give the S74 the St. Pauls Avenue portion and have the S78 run straight down Bay Street and save a couple of minutes and a few turns that way. (Also remember that I eliminated the detour near St. Joseph Hill High School, which saves a few minutes there).

 

Overnights, though, I eliminated the S78 and replaced it with overnight S52, S59, and S79 service. The S52 covers Tompkins Avenue (as well as Jersey Street, which, as anybody who's familiar with Staten Island knows, is not a street you want to be walking down after dark). The S79 covers the central part of Hylan Blvd and maintains direct access to Brooklyn and the train. The S59 covers the western part of Hylan and has a timed transfer with the SIR to/from the ferry. For Huguenot Avenue, the S59, SIR, and S74 cover the different portions (not sure what to say if you live near Huguenot & Woodrow except that they don't presently have overnight service anyway)

 

As for the S83, I don't intend for people to use it to reach Manhattan. Aside from rush hours (when the S95 supplements the S83) and evenings/overnights (when the S46 runs the full route), I intend for passengers down in Mariners Harbor & Elm Park to make their way over to the S40 or S48/98, both of which would see improved service.

 

With the S46, there's a lot of intra-island ridership as well. So the S83 would cover most of the westbound passengers that board at stops like Broadway, Port Richmond Avenue, and Walker/Morningstar (and Port Richmond High School on school days). I thought about having my S95 run all day (if you look at my original map, I have an S45/95 running weekdays-only, and the S46 extended to the West Shore Plaza on weekends). I figured that would be too confusing, and more trouble than it's worth, so I decided to hand that whole area to the S83, and as a compromise, be really generous (if you want to call it that) on the span of the rush hour S95.

 

On a side note, a nice thing about the S95 is that it basically goes straight to the major areas in NW Staten Island. So not only is it quicker than the present-day S96, but it also helps some S94 riders out by avoiding the traffic lights and tight turns it makes between Port Richmond & St. George.

 

How bad is the S78,reliability wise?So,with your service adjustment to the 78,I have to transfer at lease two buses just to travel

between Tottenville and New Drop?You could at lease create a direct route that run between Bricktown Mall and New Drop.Passenger dont have time to transfer from  bus to bus to bus along Hylan....Since you want to shorten the 78,why not have it run to Richmond AV?

 

 This my three proposal ideas for the 78 route:

 

 1.S78 terminated at Richmond AV,riders will transfer to the S59 for service south along Hylan  in which it'll be extended to Bricktown Mall .

 2.S73 extended past Tottenville train STA to Richmond AV....so riders will have a direct transfer with the 78.(I rather do this proposal than the other two)

 3.S72 could run between New Drop and Bricktown Mall,instead Hugunot.....S78 will terminated at New Drop

 

IMO,I like the current 78 service,it does it job by covering all the areas in one shout.There's no need to change it at all.It might look good on paper,but in reality it wont work out.

 

You could send the 78 to Hugenot and the S77  to Tottenville and beyond....I can deal with that.Riders will make one transfer from one bus to another.

 

For that first one, are you asking a rhetorical question, or do you want an actual answer? The stats are right here.

 

In terms of the percentage of buses running on-time, most SI routes are in the mid-60s. The S74 & S78 are in the mid-50s. So it's noticeably lower. The S48 even manages to maintain an OTP percentage in the mid-60s, and it has to deal with really crappy traffic on parts of Forest, as well as having higher ridership than either the S74 or S78. Now, does traffic play a role? Yes, but that's the point. Why should a Tottenville resident looking to make a quick hop over to the Bricktown Mall have their bus delayed because the bus was held for a ferry connection, and got bogged down with Hylan traffic on top of that?

 

Passengers don't have time to take 3 buses? Well, passengers don't have time to deal with delays that happened miles away from where they're standing. I have a friend in Rosebank who's regularly had to wait 45 minutes for a bus to the ferry, and then 2-3 show up at once (the S78 runs every 15 minutes for most of the day). And like BM5 and myself both said, a 2-seat option is available, and the point is that most people won't have to use it because they're off the bus already. 

 

The vast majority of S78 passengers traveling to Bricktown live in Tottenville itself (and Bricktown-bound S74 riders tend to come from the ETC and points west). I'm completely against the idea of any Hylan Blvd route (whether it's the S59 or S78) terminating at Bricktown. Heck, I'm not wild about the idea of any route using Bricktown as a full-time terminal (for short-turns, fine, but not to have the entire route end there). The fact of the matter of that Tottenville is one of the more transit-oriented parts of the South Shore, and due to its location at the very end of the island, it makes it a natural terminal (which means that neither the S72 or S73 should be extended back east along Hylan Blvd).

 

Like I said, I honestly don't think any route should be terminating at Hylan & Richmond coming from the west, let alone something coming all the way from Tottenville. That means essentially, everybody along that route would be forced to transfer (and that "everybody" would be an extremely low-ridership route because of how lightly-used that whole stretch of Hylan is).  

[BJC]

Ok,but i dont mind having people transferring from the S78 to whatever bus they need to get to travel south of New Drop...Under your Proposal

I  and other riders have to take two buses just to reach Tottenville from New Drop(include the 78 ride)I wont mind having a bus travel between New Drop and Tottenville....

[checkmatechamp13]

Ok,but i dont mind having people transferring from the S78 to whatever bus they need to get to travel south of New Drop...Under your Proposal

I  and other riders have to take two buses just to reach Tottenville from New Drop(include the 78 ride)I wont mind having a bus travel between New Drop and Tottenville....

 

The thing I don't understand is where exactly are you coming from, because the only route that intersects the S78 at New Dorp is the S76 (for the S79, you can stay on until Richmond Avenue and transfer there). If you're coming from some point on Richmond Road, you would be able to take the S74 to the S59 to get to the part of Tottenville down by Hylan Blvd). If you're coming from the end of New Dorp Lane by Cedar Grove Avenue, it's a 15 minute walk down to Hylan Blvd to catch the S75/78/79 to the S59 to Tottenville (not great, but I used to do a 25 minute walk to take the S93 to the S74/76 when I worked in Dongan Hills). 

[checkmatechamp13]

On a side note, I would change up the spans on the S57 & S66 as part of the restructuring.

 

The S66 (both the present form and my proposed form) shouldn't be running as late as it does. It's rather silly to have the last bus leave St. George at 1:30AM when the S61 is far busier and only runs until midnight. I'd have the S66 run until around 11:15PM or 11:45PM heading towards St. George, with the last bus leaving St. George at either midnight or 12:30AM.

 

The S57, I'd cut the last few buses back to the New Dorp SIR station, but in exchange, add an extra round-trip. (The whole schedule would be redone, since the Jewett routing would be a couple of minutes shorter than the Watchogue routing, which allows the MTA to save one bus at certain times of the day). But basically, around 10PM or so, buses would only run to New Dorp, and the last bus would leave Port Richmond around midnight, and make a return trip from New Dorp around 12:30AM.

 

Likewise, in the morning, I'd add an extra S57 round-trip leaving Port Richmond around 5:30AM, and leaving New Dorp around 6AM. (The second trip of the morning at 6AM can run all the way down to Hylan Blvd, since it's going to be making a return trip anyway). This would serve anybody who currently takes those early morning S54 trips towards the South Shore (as well as whatever few people are using the S66 within the Jewett Avenue portion at that hour)

[checkmatechamp13]

Also, a few years down the line (once ridership stabilizes), the following services could be implemented if there's enough demand.

 

S82: Seaview Hospital-St. George Ferry (the limited-stop version of my S42. Buses would start at Seaview Hospital, run local to Clove & Castleton, make a limited stop at Broadway, then make a left on Broadway to Richmond Terrace, stop at North Burgher, Jersey Street, and St. George).

 

During the timeframe that it runs, local buses operating in the same direction would start/terminate at Castleton & Clove.

 

S66 LTD (not sure what to call it, since S86 & S96 are taken, and 100-series routes would be designated for trippers. Maybe just rename the S66 to another 60-series number, and rename the limited accordingly).

 

Makes S91/92 stops east of Jewett Avenue (obviously bypassing Grymes Hill). During the timeframe it runs, local buses would start/terminate at Victory & Jewett.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Here's an idea of mine.

 

If possible, send a few New Flyer D60HF Galaxy buses to Casleton, Charleston, and Yukon. They would be on the S57, 59, 61, 62, 74, 78, 79, 84, and 93. 

 

Here's how many of the models the depots would have. The numbers are in parenthesis.  

 

Castleton- (30)

Charleston- (16)

Yukon- (20) 

 

What do you think? Questions/improvements? 

Edited April 16, 2016 by TheNewYorkElevated

[GojiMet86]

I wonder if Staten Island has ever been considered for articulated buses.

[IAlam]

ha SI residents would probably complain 

[Threxx]

Here's an idea of mine.

 

If possible, send a few New Flyer D60HF Galaxy buses to Casleton, Charleston, and Yukon. They would be on the S57, 59, 61, 62, 74, 78, 79, 84, and 93. 

 

Here's how many of the models the depots would have. The numbers are in parenthesis.  

 

Castleton- (30)

Charleston- (16)

Yukon- (20) 

 

What do you think? Questions/improvements? 

 

Perhaps someone who actually lives/works in SI can actually elaborate, but I see two problems...

 

-Residential neighborhoods. Most of the routes you selected stay on fairly wide streets, but I could see some routes like the S57 and S61 having problems with artics. And as IAlam said, many residents would be inclined to complain.

-Capacity. Do any of these routes actually need artics at all? The only route I would even remotely consider is the S79, and that's only due to its SBS status (it also doesn't enter any deep residential neighborhoods at any point).

[checkmatechamp13]

Here's an idea of mine.

 

If possible, send a few New Flyer D60HF Galaxy buses to Casleton, Charleston, and Yukon. They would be on the S57, 59, 61, 62, 74, 78, 79, 84, and 93. 

 

Here's how many of the models the depots would have. The numbers are in parenthesis.  

 

Castleton- (30)

Charleston- (16)

Yukon- (20) 

 

What do you think? Questions/improvements? 

 

ha SI residents would probably complain 

 

We would, and I would be one of them.

 

Perhaps someone who actually lives/works in SI can actually elaborate, but I see two problems...

 

-Residential neighborhoods. Most of the routes you selected stay on fairly wide streets, but I could see some routes like the S57 and S61 having problems with artics. And as IAlam said, many residents would be inclined to complain.

-Capacity. Do any of these routes actually need artics at all? The only route I would even remotely consider is the S79, and that's only due to its SBS status (it also doesn't enter any deep residential neighborhoods at any point).

 

Basically, articulated routes require a certain frequency of buses to justify them, since they replace 5 standard buses with 4 artics (I originally thought it was 3 standards with 2 artics, but apparently they're a bit more generous). I forget what the exact ratio is, but the point is that the service is less frequent with artics than it would be with standard buses.

 

So basically, you'd be taking routes that run every 15 minutes and making them run every 20 with artics. The S93 got a bump in midday frequency from 30 minutes to 20 minutes (not throughout the entire midday, unfortunately, but you get the point). That likely wouldn't have happened if the S93 were running artics.

 

Even on a frequent route, artics tend to make bunching issues worse because they often take longer to merge back into traffic (because the B/O has to watch out for 60 feet of bus instead of 40 feet). I remember a trip on the Bx22 in the PM rush where buses are scheduled 7-8 minutes apart. By the time we got to Westchester Avenue, our follower was right behind us, which meant that there was at least a 15 minute gap in buses. Had we been running standards, that gap would've likely been no more than 10-12 minutes.

 

So yeah. the only route I could see them running artics on would be the S79. It's the only one that really needs the extra capacity, and has the frequency that it could afford to lose a few buses per hour and still offer decent service for the passengers.

Here's an idea of mine.

 

If possible, send a few New Flyer D60HF Galaxy buses to Casleton, Charleston, and Yukon. They would be on the S57, 59, 61, 62, 74, 78, 79, 84, and 93. 

 

Here's how many of the models the depots would have. The numbers are in parenthesis.  

 

Castleton- (30)

Charleston- (16)

Yukon- (20) 

 

What do you think? Questions/improvements? 

 

ha SI residents would probably complain 

 

We would, and I would be one of them.

 

Perhaps someone who actually lives/works in SI can actually elaborate, but I see two problems...

 

-Residential neighborhoods. Most of the routes you selected stay on fairly wide streets, but I could see some routes like the S57 and S61 having problems with artics. And as IAlam said, many residents would be inclined to complain.

-Capacity. Do any of these routes actually need artics at all? The only route I would even remotely consider is the S79, and that's only due to its SBS status (it also doesn't enter any deep residential neighborhoods at any point).

 

Basically, articulated routes require a certain frequency of buses to justify them, since they replace 5 standard buses with 4 artics (I originally thought it was 3 standards with 2 artics, but apparently they're a bit more generous). I forget what the exact ratio is, but the point is that the service is less frequent with artics than it would be with standard buses.

 

So basically, you'd be taking routes that run every 15 minutes and making them run every 20 with artics. The S93 got a bump in midday frequency from 30 minutes to 20 minutes (not throughout the entire midday, unfortunately, but you get the point). That likely wouldn't have happened if the S93 were running artics.

 

Even on a frequent route, artics tend to make bunching issues worse because they often take longer to merge back into traffic (because the B/O has to watch out for 60 feet of bus instead of 40 feet). I remember a trip on the Bx22 in the PM rush where buses are scheduled 7-8 minutes apart. By the time we got to Westchester Avenue, our follower was right behind us, which meant that there was at least a 15 minute gap in buses. Had we been running standards, that gap would've likely been no more than 10-12 minutes.

 

So yeah. the only route I could see them running artics on would be the S79. It's the only one that really needs the extra capacity, and has the frequency that it could afford to lose a few buses per hour and still offer decent service for the passengers.

[IAlam]

We would, and I would be one of them.

 

 

Basically, articulated routes require a certain frequency of buses to justify them, since they replace 5 standard buses with 4 artics (I originally thought it was 3 standards with 2 artics, but apparently they're a bit more generous). I forget what the exact ratio is, but the point is that the service is less frequent with artics than it would be with standard buses.

 

So basically, you'd be taking routes that run every 15 minutes and making them run every 20 with artics. The S93 got a bump in midday frequency from 30 minutes to 20 minutes (not throughout the entire midday, unfortunately, but you get the point). That likely wouldn't have happened if the S93 were running artics.

 

Even on a frequent route, artics tend to make bunching issues worse because they often take longer to merge back into traffic (because the B/O has to watch out for 60 feet of bus instead of 40 feet). I remember a trip on the Bx22 in the PM rush where buses are scheduled 7-8 minutes apart. By the time we got to Westchester Avenue, our follower was right behind us, which meant that there was at least a 15 minute gap in buses. Had we been running standards, that gap would've likely been no more than 10-12 minutes.

 

So yeah. the only route I could see them running artics on would be the S79. It's the only one that really needs the extra capacity, and has the frequency that it could afford to lose a few buses per hour and still offer decent service for the passengers.

It might just be me but I'm pretty sure an LFSA. D60HF, or even an XD60 for this matter can do better on the bridge than an NG 

[Threxx]

It might just be me but I'm pretty sure an LFSA. D60HF, or even an XD60 for this matter can do better on the bridge than an NG 

 

The bridge is ~2-3% of the route, while Hylan Blvd is probably about ~70%. What section of the route do you think would more likely determine what stock to use on the route?