Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

[checkmatechamp13]

So maybe the s83 as a normal limited ad the s93 as a super limited where it only stop at major intersections, a stop every few miles.  

 

Nah, that's overkill. Like I said, having a few extra runs doing a sort of super-express from Brooklyn to CSI is one thing, but converting the entire route to a super-limited is overkill. I mean, which stops would you cut out? Like I said, there's a lot of intra-SI riders.

 

I could see consolidating some stops west of Jewett to space them out a bit further (which would also affect the S62/92), but the general structure of the route is alright.

[aemoreira81]

Why can't CSI just run more shuttle service?  Using city resources for this college... Don't agree with it...

 

CSI contracts with First Transit for shuttle bus service, which operates it from the same garage that Rutgers shuttle buses are operated from. I would also suggest that perhaps First Transit should transfer an articulated bus from the Rutgers fleet to the CSI fleet that runs only during peak hours (and is parked on campus at other times), running at approximately 9:00 AM, 11 AM, 1 PM, 3 PM, and 5:30 PM (CSI North Admin building departure); normally, First usually keeps 2 spares parked on campus at all times rather than at its garage in Union, NJ. What is really needed is additional capacity, and perhaps CUNY should perhaps look for 2 secondhand artics that would then be operated by First.

 

On the MTA side, I will say that scheduling should be improved so that the layover at CSI is only 10 minutes, and shift midday departures from :00 and :30 to :15 and :45.

[checkmatechamp13]

On the MTA side, I will say that scheduling should be improved so that the layover at CSI is only 10 minutes, and shift midday departures from :00 and :30 to :15 and :45.

 

You're talking about the S93? I would agree with that general idea, except the midday service has a lot of intervals of 20 minute headways. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Here's a modification of an idea I had, but I'm not sure if it's better than the original.

 

My plan has the S73 running from Tottenville to the ETC via Arthur Kill Road, Rossville Avenue, Correll Avenue, Bloomingdale Road, Englewood Avenue, Veterans Road West, Bricktown Way, Tyrellan Avenue, Boscombe Avenue, Page Avenue, and Amboy Road, and then turn around via Johnson Avenue, Arthur Kill Road, and Main Street (terminating at Arthur Kill & Main)

 

The S56 would basically be extended to CSI, and take Woodrow directly to Arthur Kill instead of Woodrow-Arden-Arthur Kill (I have the S55 covering Arden Avenue between Annadale and Arthur Kill)

 

I'm wondering whether the S73 & S56 should switch routes south/west of the Rossville area. So the S73 would take Rossville Avenue-Woodrow Road-Foster Road, and then finish off the S56 route to Tottenville High School. Meanwhile the S56 would run the full length of Woodrow Road to Bloomingdale Road, and then continue to Tottenville via Bricktown.

 

The advantage is that Rossville maintains a full-time connection to the SIR at Princes Bay, and Tottenville High School students living in Rossville would have a regular route rather than just a few trippers. The S55 & S77 would provide Arden Heights with a direct connection to Tottenville High School along Arden Avenue & Huguenot Avenue respectively, so there would be no need for the S56 to do so.

 

The disadvantage is that Rossville residents would need to make their way down to Woodrow Road if they want service to Bricktown and/or Tottenville, and Bloomingdale Road has no service north of Bloomingdale. The alternative is to have the S56 divert to serve Correll Avenue, which adds a bit of travel time. (It might still not be a bad idea, since there's more townhouses/higher density north of Woodrow)

 

The other disadvantage is that it strengthens the S56 at the expense of the S73, since (outside of Tottenville HS students) the S73 would basically be reduced to a shuttle for Rossville residents to take to reach the ETC and/or SIR). I suppose even if the S73 were a weekday-only route, that would still be no worse than the current setup with the S74 (basically, Rossville residents would still have direct access to Bricktown and the ETC, and Foster Road residents would have the S55, S56, S77, and SIR in their general vicinity)

 

Just keep in mind that I plan on running the S55 & S56 on weekends, along their revised routings.

 

I'm also wondering if the S72 should run on weekends, maybe with 1 bus on hourly headways. Not sure how much activity there is in that industrial part of Arthur Kill Road on the weekends, but it seems like a pretty big stretch to leave with no weekend service.

Edited September 8, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[161 New York]

The s56 is fine the way it is now.

 

There is no need to reroute it from it's segment from Arden Avenue. The area from Woodrow Rd/Arden Avenue to SI Mall is where the bulk of the ridership is outside of school days in addition to the Hylan/Seguine + Princes Bay SIR station. What would be needed is to extend service until 8-9pm. (Weekends would be nice too!)

 

In order to serve College of Staten Island students an easy fix that should have been done the opening of the Eltingville Transit Center would be to extend the s61 there. I'd also discontinue to loop around the depot unless a switch out is needed between BO's.

 

The s73 does not appear to be needed. The s74 works fine between Bricktown Mall and Eltingville Transit Center. It also now has half hourly service round the clock. 

 

I use the s56 and s74 frequently as they are in my neighborhood.

Edited September 9, 2016 by 161NewYork

[checkmatechamp13]

The s56 is fine the way it is now.

 

There is no need to reroute it from it's segment from Arden Avenue. The area from Woodrow Rd/Arden Avenue to SI Mall is where the bulk of the ridership is outside of school days in addition to the Hylan/Seguine + Princes Bay SIR station. What would be needed is to extend service until 8-9pm. (Weekends would be nice too!)

 

In order to serve College of Staten Island students an easy fix that should have been done the opening of the Eltingville Transit Center would be to extend the s61 there. I'd also discontinue to loop around the depot unless a switch out is needed between BO's.

 

The s73 does not appear to be needed. The s74 works fine between Bricktown Mall and Eltingville Transit Center. It also now has half hourly service round the clock. 

 

I use the s56 and s74 frequently as they are in my neighborhood.

 

The S55/56 have some of the lowest ridership and highest cost per rider in the entire local bus system. They are far from "fine". 

 

The MTA reps specifically said they're looking to split the S74 & S78, as they're two of the longest, most unreliable routes in the borough. On most S74 buses, you'll see a whole crowd of people dump out at the ETC, and then a new crowd waiting to take their place (and I say this as somebody who used to work down on the South Shore regularly, and still gets assigned there from time to time)

 

So even a pure split of the S74 would require you to relabel one of the portions (unless you want to do that BS NICE did with the n20G & n20H labels)

 

I really wouldn't consider the S74 to "work fine" between the ETC & Bricktown considering it takes a longer route through the middle of nowhere (referring to the light industry on Arthur Kill Road west of Bloomingdale), instead of a shorter route through a denser residential area. That's the logic behind having the main route focus on the residential parts of Rossville/Woodrow (the neighborhoods) and then a supplementary route serving the industrial part.

 

The S55 would cover the Arden Avenue segment. I've been on plenty of buses where we literally had no passengers boarding/disembarking along Annadale Road (we had people who boarded along Bloomingdale Road riding through to the ETC & SI Mall), so that's the whole idea: Give the S55 a strong segment, and let the S56 cover the eastern part of Woodrow Road (which needs the coverage more than Annadale Road, considering it's isolated by the Richmond Parkway, and Annadale Road isn't too far from Richmond Avenue)

 

An S61 extension to the ETC makes sense for general connectivity purposes, but for getting CSI students to the South Shore, an extension of the S55 or S56 would bring them directly to the South Shore instead of forcing them to transfer (you're not going to get CSI students parking at the ETC to catch a bus. Parking is hard, but it's still not that hard or that expensive yet)

[FLX9304]

The stupid thing just deleted my work. I'll just list the changes I would make and provide the explanations later.

 

S40/S90: Unchanged

 

S42: Weekend service restored. Route combined with S54 via Lafayette-Henderson-Broadway, providing Westerleigh with easier access to St. George.

 

On southern end, Giffords Lane service replaced by S79A. Service is rerouted to New Dorp SIR station (more commercial area could lead to higher ridership). On the weekends, service is extended to cover the S76 route.

 

S44/S94: If buses are deadheading to the Yukon Depot anyway (I don't know whether they go back to St. George, or if they're based out of Castleton), the S44 short-turns in the PM rush would be extended to the SI Mall via Post Avenue-Port Richmond Avenue-Walker Street-Morningstar Road-MLK Expressway (stop at CSI), and then take Victory Blvd to Richmond Avenue. Provides faster service for CSI students/

 

S46/S96: S96 service expanded to run all day (6:00AM - 7:00PM eastbound and 7:00AM - 10:00PM westbound). Accomplished by reducing S46 service to 15 minute headways and having the S96 run every 30 minutes off-peak (20 minutes reverse-peak).

 

S48/S98: S98 service expanded to run 24/7 to Newark Airport (local stops overnight). Service would run every 30 minutes to Arlington and 30 minutes to Newark Airport off-peak and reverse-peak on weekdays and possibly Saturdays. During rush hour, service runs more frequently to Arlington than Newark Airport.

 

S51: No change.

 

S52: Extended to Richmond Road via Seaview Avenue to provide South Beach riders for another way to make connections besides the S51.

 

S53: S83 limited added, running limited all the way to Port Richmond. Service on the S53 is reduced to provide resources for this. S83 buses would bypass McClean Avenue and instead take the S79 route after Hylan & Clove. No Sunday service.

 

S54: See S42.

 

S55: Rerouted to take Bloomingdale Road-Englewood Avenue-Bricktown Mall and then serve the Perth Amboy train station. S82 covers Bloomingdale Road.

 

S56: No change. Maybe in a desperate attempt to get more riders, it could be extended to Seaview Hospital to provide riders from the SI Mall area with an easier ride.

 

S57: No change.

 

S59: No change.

 

S61: No change.

 

S62: Saturday short-turns to CSI converted to S93 runs. Midday service runs every 15 minutes consistently, and midday S93 service is added.

 

Rush hour service eliminated and replaced with S67 service. Victory Blvd has the S92 and S93, but Westerleigh only has the S57, which doesn't go to St. George or Brooklyn, S92s might be marginally more crowded, but not by much. The S62 is really for riders east of Jewett Avenue anyway.

 

S66: Weekend service restored, but the hours are the same as the former S60.

 

S67: Restored. See S62.

 

S74/S84: I'm debating on what to do with the route on the South Shore. Without the Arthur Kill Correctional Facility, there's really nothing to serve in that area, but there are some houses south of Sharrotts Road, plus the Tides development, so I don't know. Maybe it could take Bloomingdale Road-Englewood Avenue and serve the Bricktown Mall, and then go out and take Arthur Kill Road to Sharrotts Road, but then the problem becomes finding a place to turn around. If the community doesn't want buses running down the side streets, then there's no choice but to just have it terminate at the Bricktown Mall.

 

S76: No change.

 

S78: No change.

 

S79: Would become a full-time limited (Except maybe during the evening hours, when the locals don't run too frequently). A new S79A is introduced, which would run as a local every 30 minutes, 7 days a week (I guess from 6AM to 10PM, or whatever sounds good). It would serve Giffords Lane instead of Richmond Avenue, providing Great Kills with access to both the SI Mall, and shopping along Hylan Blvd.

 

S82: New route created from Tottenville to Newark Airport via Bayonne. It would take the path I outlined (pretty much following the proposed path of the proposed West Shore Light Rail Line, though it would usually take the service road where possible. It would provide 7-day access to Bayonne (running every 40 minutes off-peak), and from there, it would take JFK Blvd to I-78 and then go to Newark Airport, providing both SI and Bayonne residents with a one-seat ride to Newark Airport (if you want, it could run limited down JFK Blvd). It would fill in a few service gaps on SI in the process.

 

S93: Midday and Saturday service added. See S62.

 

Also, buses near the SI Mall would be rerouted to all use the same street, whether it's Marsh Avenue, or the "back part" of Ring Road.

How far is the gap between the S42 & S54? As for the S82, you can make that all limited service, with the creation of the S72 local. Both routes will operate out of Meredith to ease the overcrowding on CH, CA & YU. Meredith can accomondate at least 20-25 standard buses for the S72/82. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Any S83 service should run 7 days week.

[checkmatechamp13]

How far is the gap between the S42 & S54? As for the S82, you can make that all limited service, with the creation of the S72 local. Both routes will operate out of Meredith to ease the overcrowding on CH, CA & YU. Meredith can accomondate at least 20-25 standard buses for the S72/82. 

 

You mean between the S42 terminal in New Brighton and the S54 terminal in West New Brighton? It's about a mile and a half, give or take.

 

As for the S82, I don't think it's really necessary anymore. There definitely needs to be some type of off-peak connection to the HBLR (well, at least once they finish raising the Bayonne Bridge), but at the same time, I don't think there's that much demand for bus service along the West Shore Expressway. Passengers living on the northern part of South Avenue looking to head towards the South Shore can take the S48 or (my proposed) S66 over to Richmond Avenue for the S59. I don't think there's too much demand for the Teleport, and aside from that, there would also be some S62 buses that serve it (basically, extending some of the CSI short-turns), so it'll be a little easier to access it from the South Shore. Obviously not as quick as a direct route, but there isn't much demand for that area from North Shore residents, let alone South Shore residents.

 

Any S83 service should run 7 days week.

 

Was that a general statement or in response to a comment in particular?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Was that a general statement or in response to a comment in particular?

I didn't quote anyone so that means it's a general statement.

[checkmatechamp13]

So in addition to my restructuring plan, I proposed something in the New Dorp area:

 

S76 terminates at Cedar Grove Avenue & Ebbitts Street. (Turns around via New Dorp Lane-Cedar Grove Avenue, terminates, then comes back up on Ebbitts Street & Mill Road)

 

S57 takes Richmond Road to New Dorp Lane to Mill Road and terminates at Mill Road & Tarlton Street.

 

S78 takes Hylan Blvd-Tysens Lane-Amboy Road, serves the Greaves Lane shopping center, and terminates at Richmond Avenue & Amboy Road. (The S75 & S77 would serve the local stops south of Tysens Lane)

 

I chose Tysens Lane over Guyon Avenue or New Dorp Lane because it's quicker than New Dorp Lane, but still provides access to Farrell High School, and the area bounded by Amboy Road, Riedel Avenue, and Richmond Road. 

[checkmatechamp13]

BTW, I forgot to mention that the reason I chose the S57 to serve Oakwood Beach and the S76/86 to serve New Dorp Beach is so that the S57 maintains access to Hylan Plaza, which is important since it's a cross-island route.

 

I thought of another way to serve Amboy Road that's a little more cost-effective:

 

The S75 will run from Bay Ridge to the SI Mall via McClean Avenue/Reid Avenue, Hylan Blvd, Tysens Lane, Amboy Road, Giffords Lane, Leverett Avenue, Armstrong Avenue, Arthur Kill Road, then loop through the ETC, take Richmond Avenue to Forest Hill Road to Richmond Hill Road, and then terminate at the current S79 terminal.

 

The S59 would take Richmond Avenue to Amboy Road to Armstrong Avenue to Hylan Blvd. The current S59 gets very little ridership south of the Eltingville SIR station (except for the runs to/from Tottenville). Meanwhile, there's a lot of shopping centers along Amboy Road between Richmond Avenue and Armstrong Avenue that would provide it with ridership. Additionally, since Nelson Avenue would have no bus service (since the S54 would be combined with the S42 and terminate at Seaview Hospital, and the S75 would be covering Amboy Road and thus be unable to cover Nelson Avenue), this would provide an alternate route in that general area.

 

Forest Hill Road actually has a lot of townhouses between Platinum & Richmond Hill, but unfortunately, the street grid is very indirect as far as connecting to the buses on Marsh Avenue or (under my proposal) Ring Road. The S56 would be the closest bus (at Richmond Hill & Forest Hill) but the S75 would provide a route in the immediate area, while still serving the SI Mall.

 

The S79 would have a stop added at Koch Blvd to provide general coverage for local customers between Amboy Road & Hylan Blvd (it's the same stop the S89 stops at). West of Richmond Avenue is Southeast Annadale, which is almost as wealthy as Todt Hill, so one stop should suffice.

 

The S78 would run under my original plan (Mill Road & Tysens Lane to St. George). Alternate AM buses would begin at Narrows Road South (service south of there would run approximately every 15-20 minutes, with the S75 sharing the local riders between New Dorp & Old Town, and the S79 obviously continuing to take the limited-stop riders).

 

The S52 would have half of the buses start at Beach & Water Street in the AM, and half of them terminate there in the PM. (I have some friends from Rosebank who went to Curtis High School who said it was quicker to just take the S78 and walk, compared to taking the S52, even though it stopped directly by the school)

[Dan1]

Speaking of the ever grungy Hylan Plaza. It is to be demolished over the next year and replaced with a modern shopping center to be called 'The Boulevard'. There will be a new entrance/exit on the Mill Road side. Shop-Rite is rumored to be the center's grocery store, their current space on Hylan Blvd & Burbank Ave is awkward. No other retailers have been announced.

 

http://www.theboulevardstatenisland.com/

http://www.kimcorealty.com/the-boulevard-brochure

Edited October 30, 2016 by Dan1

[checkmatechamp13]

Thinking again, I think my version of the S56 should take Arthur Kill Road to Bloomingdale Road to Correll Avenue, before returning to Rossville Avenue & Foster Road. That way, it gives more of the Rossville area direct access to the SIR (on weekdays only)

 

The primary purpose would be to just get from CSI to the ETC. From there, transfers can be made to other buses to get to points on the South and East Shore (including the S59/79/89 if the person's destination is still best served by the SIR)

 

I also think my S75 should take New Dorp Lane. It makes it easier with the transfers, as people taking the S57 or S76 wouldn't have to backtrack down to Hylan to catch it.

[checkmatechamp13]

Alright, so a little bit of a radical restructuring on the South Shore:

 

S44/94: St. George-CSI (Current route to Port Richmond & Walker, then continue down Port Richmond Avenue to Willowbrook Road, Willowbrook Road to Watchogue Road, Watchogue Road to Woolley Avenue, Woolley Avenue becomes Forest Hill Road, which it would take to the CSI entrance (this is basically repeating my modification to B35's proposal earlier in the thread)

 

S54: CSI-Tottenville via Forest Hill Road-Richmond Hill Road-Marsh Avenue-Ring Road-Platinum Avenue-Richmond Avenue-Arthur Kill Road-Armstrong Avenue-Giffords Lane-Brower Court-Nelson Avenue-Hylan Blvd, and terminates at the present-day S59 terminal at Main Street/Amboy Road.

 

(Remember I still have the S42 covering the northern portion of the S54)

 

Some trippers on both the S44 & S54 would run to/from Susan Wagner High School instead of CSI. 

 

S75: Takes Amboy Road all the way from Richmond Road to Richmond Avenue (instead of taking Amboy Road just to Nelson Avenue and having the S59 cover the portion between Richmond & Armstrong). This makes it more closely resemble the S79 and act as a local variant (the only differences would be the routing around South Beach, and the routing between New Dorp & Eltingville).

 

S59: On the northern end, buses would take the S44 routing via Morningstar Road and Walker Street instead of running the full length of Port Richmond Avenue. On the southern end, I'm torn between simply ending it at the ETC, or combining it with either the S55 (which, as I mentioned earlier would be routed to travel via Arden Avenue instead of Annadale Road) or S73 (the Woodrow Road route). Right now, a decent amount of people who get off the S55/56/74 at the ETC are seeking S59/89 service to points north of the SI Mall, and if I'm cutting it back from connecting with the SIR, part of me wants to have it still serve the South Shore in some capacity.

 

The other part of me says that there's enough connections available at the ETC that it shouldn't be a big issue (the S74/84 & S75/79 basically cover all the SIR stops between Grasmere & Eltingville, the S55 covers all the SIR stops between Annadale & Pleasant Plains, and the S73 covers all the stops between Richmond Valley & Tottenville, and riders who still want the direct connection to the SIR can hop on the S75/79 down Richmond Avenue. A lot of people presently do that anyway: Take the S79 to the SI Mall to get the choice of the S44 or S59). And cutting it back to the ETC preserves the reliability for South Shore riders (I actually see more people take the westbound S79 to the westbound S74, compared to the amount of people who take the westbound S74 to the ETC and stay on beyond there). I'm not as worried about Richmond Avenue riders, because I'd still short-turn around half the buses at the ETC.

 

If it were to be combined with one of those routes, it would remain within Staten Island (so if it were combined with the S55, that would be the route to Tottenville while the S73 went over the Outerbridge). Although I would be curious to see how a Port Richmond-Perth Amboy route would work out.

 

S55A: Basically the old S55 (Tottenville HS to SI Mall) run as a school-tripper to maintain a direct route from the ETC and SI Mall to Tottenville HS (since the S55 would take a more circuitous route through Arden Heights)

Edited November 18, 2016 by checkmatechamp13

[Dan1]

S75: Takes Amboy Road all the way from Richmond Road to Richmond Avenue (instead of taking Amboy Road just to Nelson Avenue and having the S59 cover the portion between Richmond & Armstrong). This makes it more closely resemble the S79 and act as a local variant (the only differences would be the routing around South Beach, and the routing between New Dorp & Eltingville).

Amboy Road between Clarke Avenue and Wilson Avenue is for the most part too narrow for a bus route. Only one lane each way, bus stops would slow up traffic considerably as there is no safe way for vehicles to pass them.

[checkmatechamp13]

Amboy Road between Clarke Avenue and Wilson Avenue is for the most part too narrow for a bus route. Only one lane each way, bus stops would slow up traffic considerably as there is no safe way for vehicles to pass them.

 

The same thing happens on Clove Road at the Grasmere SIR station. The S53 buses block up the road when they load/unload passengers, but you can't say that the bus route should be removed from the street, or even that the stop should be removed from that location. The same thing should apply here: If the bus has to block traffic for 30 seconds, so be it. Same thing for the Broadway portion of the route (and the portion of Clove served by the S54. And parts of Manor Road & Jewett Avenue)

 

The thing is that if the SIR stops were closer together, I don't think you'd really need a bus down Amboy. I mean, the only areas of interest that aren't within a short walk of the SIR along Amboy are the area around Armstrong Avenue and the area by the Greaves Lane shopping center. (On a related note, a well-placed Park Hill/Rosebank station would eliminate the need for a bus along Osgood/Mosel).

[Dan1]

The same thing happens on Clove Road at the Grasmere SIR station. The S53 buses block up the road when they load/unload passengers, but you can't say that the bus route should be removed from the street, or even that the stop should be removed from that location. The same thing should apply here: If the bus has to block traffic for 30 seconds, so be it. Same thing for the Broadway portion of the route (and the portion of Clove served by the S54. And parts of Manor Road & Jewett Avenue)

 

The thing is that if the SIR stops were closer together, I don't think you'd really need a bus down Amboy. I mean, the only areas of interest that aren't within a short walk of the SIR along Amboy are the area around Armstrong Avenue and the area by the Greaves Lane shopping center. (On a related note, a well-placed Park Hill/Rosebank station would eliminate the need for a bus along Osgood/Mosel).

Amboy Road is narrower than even Clove Road. Amboy basically an old Indian path that over the last 125 years grew into an arterial roadway. Rosebank SIR station one of those things talked about for years, doubtful it will ever happen. Staten Island Bus Study report overdue. At the end of October Jimmy Oddo said meeting with MTA was a few weeks away but nothing yet. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Interested Rider]

In response to checkmate champ and his comments on the S/53 at Grasmere Station: It has been like that since as long I can remember riding the route (try 1968) and the only thing that I can remember where there was any change was with the constant flooding right before the station.. Any changes at that location to improve traffic flow would require eminent domain and that will not happen. Old Town Road which appears as an  alternate sometimes is just like Clove Road with one lane in each direction.. 

Amboy Road is another cowpath only worse than Clove or Old Town Roads and the only time I remember having a bus on detour was west of Nelson Avenue due to a tie up at Richmond Avenue and Hylan Boulevard. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Another small proposal: Whenever I ride the S57, at most 1 person gets on or off at Seaview Hospital, and the S54 is usually scheduled around the same time as the S57 anyway.

 

My proposal has the S42 combined with the northern portion of the S54 and terminating at Seaview Hospital. That should be the only route serving the hospital itself. Any S57 riders who can't walk to the hospital itself (and like I said it's usually no more than one person, and I've been on buses that looped through the entire hospital campus without picking up/dropping off anybody) can transfer at Brielle Avenue (there's an existing northbound stop, and a small sidewalk and bus shelter shouldn't be hard to install on the southbound side)

[checkmatechamp13]

So bouncing some ideas against the wall: A version of the X21 that covers the main part of Hylan Blvd (from Narrows to Richmond).

 

My logic has to do with the fact that on the East Side, the X2/5 get out of Manhattan pretty quickly (or at least directly). They run straight down Lexington to 23rd and get on the FDR. However, on the West Side, the X7/9 take local streets all the way to Houston, and then on top of that have to divert to the WFC. If there was a quicker way to/from the West Side of Manhattan, that would be helpful.

 

Now of course, part of the problem is that the X1/3/4 don't run well Downtown (as I've said before, the X1 should be eliminated during rush hour, and its ridership bases divided among the X3/4/7/9, with the X3/4 starting at Worth Street. Right now, the X1 gets bogged down in areas further north, and the X3/4 don't run often enough to help deal with the waits, so you end up with a long wait and a cluster of buses).

 

So that being said, I'm tossing out the idea: Would it be worth it to create a separate route that runs across 42nd Street, so West Midtown riders have the option of just making their way to that route, as opposed to a longer subway trip Downtown (or to Broadway/Lafayette for the X7/9)? I guess since Hylan (north of Midland) gets a little more ridership than Father Capodanno, the route should run like the current X1 does within Staten Island.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So bouncing some ideas against the wall: A version of the X21 that covers the main part of Hylan Blvd (from Narrows to Richmond).

 

My logic has to do with the fact that on the East Side, the X2/5 get out of Manhattan pretty quickly (or at least directly). They run straight down Lexington to 23rd and get on the FDR. However, on the West Side, the X7/9 take local streets all the way to Houston, and then on top of that have to divert to the WFC. If there was a quicker way to/from the West Side of Manhattan, that would be helpful.

 

Now of course, part of the problem is that the X1/3/4 don't run well Downtown (as I've said before, the X1 should be eliminated during rush hour, and its ridership bases divided among the X3/4/7/9, with the X3/4 starting at Worth Street. Right now, the X1 gets bogged down in areas further north, and the X3/4 don't run often enough to help deal with the waits, so you end up with a long wait and a cluster of buses).

 

So that being said, I'm tossing out the idea: Would it be worth it to create a separate route that runs across 42nd Street, so West Midtown riders have the option of just making their way to that route, as opposed to a longer subway trip Downtown (or to Broadway/Lafayette for the X7/9)? I guess since Hylan (north of Midland) gets a little more ridership than Father Capodanno, the route should run like the current X1 does within Staten Island.

Before starts adding more routes, they should first deal with the lines that they have.  Service along Father Capodanno is ATROCIOUS, with numerous buses going missing in the morning, leading to packed SRO buses all the way to Manhattan.  The X5 is the most infamous.  That's likely one reason Hylan Blvd appears to get more ridership north of Midland. If I had the uncertainty of when a bus would come, I too would head to Hylan where service seems to be more reliable.  The other issue with the X3 and X4 is they sometimes don't come as scheduled, so how about they fix that problem as well? There's no point in adding more buses when you have such issues as I described.  

 

 

Another small proposal: Whenever I ride the S57, at most 1 person gets on or off at Seaview Hospital, and the S54 is usually scheduled around the same time as the S57 anyway.

 

My proposal has the S42 combined with the northern portion of the S54 and terminating at Seaview Hospital. That should be the only route serving the hospital itself. Any S57 riders who can't walk to the hospital itself (and like I said it's usually no more than one person, and I've been on buses that looped through the entire hospital campus without picking up/dropping off anybody) can transfer at Brielle Avenue (there's an existing northbound stop, and a small sidewalk and bus shelter shouldn't be hard to install on the southbound side)

Making people have to walk further to get to the hospital campus is incredibly callous. How much time would be saved by skipping that given how few people you claim get off?  A few minutes at the most?  Neither of those routes (the S57 or the S54) are that hot in terms of ridership, nor does it take that long on either route, so might as well keep it as it is.  There's already enough people upset about the S54 being cut on weekends, losing access to the hospital.  

Another small proposal: Whenever I ride the S57, at most 1 person gets on or off at Seaview Hospital, and the S54 is usually scheduled around the same time as the S57 anyway.

 

My proposal has the S42 combined with the northern portion of the S54 and terminating at Seaview Hospital. That should be the only route serving the hospital itself. Any S57 riders who can't walk to the hospital itself (and like I said it's usually no more than one person, and I've been on buses that looped through the entire hospital campus without picking up/dropping off anybody) can transfer at Brielle Avenue (there's an existing northbound stop, and a small sidewalk and bus shelter shouldn't be hard to install on the southbound side)

Making people have to walk further or transfer to get to the hospital campus is incredibly callous. How much time would be saved by skipping that given how few people you claim get on/off?  A few minutes at the most?  Neither of those routes (the S57 or the S54) are that hot in terms of ridership, nor is the run time that terrible, so might as well keep it as it is.  There's already enough people upset about the S54 being cut on weekends, losing access to the hospital.  

Edited May 5, 2017 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

Before starts adding more routes, they should first deal with the lines that they have.  Service along Father Capodanno is ATROCIOUS, with numerous buses going missing in the morning, leading to packed SRO buses all the way to Manhattan.  The X5 is the most infamous.  That's likely one reason Hylan Blvd appears to get more ridership north of Midland. If I had the uncertainty of when a bus would come, I too would head to Hylan where service seems to be more reliable.  The other issue with the X3 and X4 is they sometimes don't come as scheduled, so how about they fix that problem as well? There's no point in adding more buses when you have such issues as I described.  

 

Appears....no it's simple logic: Father Capodanno has half it's catchment area in the ocean, whereas Hylan Blvd runs through the heart of the neighborhoods in that section. Unless we have some mermaids using the express bus that I'm unaware of, it makes sense that ridership would be higher on Hylan for that reason alone. (Plus, there's also the issue of those areas being some of the areas hardest-hit by Hurricane Sandy).

 

And before you make any stupid comments, yes I've rode both the Hylan Blvd express routes and Father Capodanno express routes (especially since I've been working in Midland Beach and attend school in Manhattan). 

 

And don't come as scheduled....yeah those things run every 20-30 minutes, and start all the way at the WFC (where they leave completely empty). Start them over at Worth Street where actual people will use them...if a bus is sitting there at the terminal and it's at their scheduled departure time, but with a whole crowd of people at the stop, nobody's actually getting on the bus (because they're all waiting for X7/9/10B buses), I can see why a B/O would take their sweet time pulling out.....and then they get to Broadway & Park Place (and all the following stops) and get hit with a ton of passengers there. If people are getting on at the very first stop, it becomes harder to play those games.

 

Making people have to walk further to get to the hospital campus is incredibly callous. How much time would be saved by skipping that given how few people you claim get off?  A few minutes at the most?  Neither of those routes (the S57 or the S54) are that hot in terms of ridership, nor does it take that long on either route, so might as well keep it as it is.  There's already enough people upset about the S54 being cut on weekends, losing access to the hospital.  

Making people have to walk further or transfer to get to the hospital campus is incredibly callous. How much time would be saved by skipping that given how few people you claim get on/off?  A few minutes at the most?  Neither of those routes (the S57 or the S54) are that hot in terms of ridership, nor is the run time that terrible, so might as well keep it as it is.  There's already enough people upset about the S54 being cut on weekends, losing access to the hospital.  

 

What, just because it's a hospital? I don't recall the last time I actually saw an elderly person get on/off there. The few times I've seen somebody use that stop, it always looked like a worker. (Not that elderly people should automatically be exempt from having to transfer)

 

And I have the actual ridership numbers for those stops, since you want to be stupid, talking about how I'm claiming low ridership....it's about 33 people per day getting on at the stops within the loop, and only 24 of those are actually going to the hospital stops (the remaining ones are going to the stops right next to Brielle Avenue, which are basically right next to the stops on Brielle Avenue itself).

 

As for how much time it would save (which BTW, isn't because of heavy passenger activity or anything. It's just that going through the loop takes time even if nobody gets on or off), it's about 3-4 minutes, which combined with saving 1-2 minutes by running down Jewett (with the S66 covering Watchogue) would allow them to save the cost of one bus running on the line for most of the day. Also, it could mean the difference between catching and missing a connection (e.g. with the SIR or S62 or S48)

 

And yeah, people have complained about the S54 not running on weekends, which is why (as I've mentioned several times before) I would run that combined S42/54 route on weekends. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by checkmatechamp13

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. Appears....no it's simple logic: Father Capodanno has half it's catchment area in the ocean, whereas Hylan Blvd runs through the heart of the neighborhoods in that section. Unless we have some mermaids using the express bus that I'm unaware of, it makes sense that ridership would be higher on Hylan for that reason alone. (Plus, there's also the issue of those areas being some of the areas hardest-hit by Hurricane Sandy).

 

And before you make any stupid comments, yes I've rode both the Hylan Blvd express routes and Father Capodanno express routes (especially since I've been working in Midland Beach and attend school in Manhattan). 

 

And don't come as scheduled....yeah those things run every 20-30 minutes, and start all the way at the WFC (where they leave completely empty). Start them over at Worth Street where actual people will use them...if a bus is sitting there at the terminal and it's at their scheduled departure time, but with a whole crowd of people at the stop, nobody's actually getting on the bus (because they're all waiting for X7/9/10B buses), I can see why a B/O would take their sweet time pulling out.....and then they get to Broadway & Park Place (and all the following stops) and get hit with a ton of passengers there. If people are getting on at the very first stop, it becomes harder to play those games.

 

 

2. What, just because it's a hospital? I don't recall the last time I actually saw an elderly person get on/off there. The few times I've seen somebody use that stop, it always looked like a worker. (Not that elderly people should automatically be exempt from having to transfer)

 

And I have the actual ridership numbers for those stops, since you want to be stupid, talking about how I'm claiming low ridership....it's about 33 people per day getting on at the stops within the loop, and only 24 of those are actually going to the hospital stops (the remaining ones are going to the stops right next to Brielle Avenue, which are basically right next to the stops on Brielle Avenue itself).

 

As for how much time it would save (which BTW, isn't because of heavy passenger activity or anything. It's just that going through the loop takes time even if nobody gets on or off), it's about 3-4 minutes, which combined with saving 1-2 minutes by running down Jewett (with the S66 covering Watchogue) would allow them to save the cost of one bus running on the line for most of the day. Also, it could mean the difference between catching and missing a connection (e.g. with the SIR or S62 or S48)

 

And yeah, people have complained about the S54 not running on weekends, which is why (as I've mentioned several times before) I would run that combined S42/54 route on weekends. 

1. Oh that's the least of my worries. You win the prize for saying stupid things consistently.  As for  Father Capodanno, big deal... You've rode along both corridors.  What does that have to do with buses running poorly in both the AM and PM? The point I was making was that if you have unreliable service and an alternative, well guess what? People will use which ever service is better.  Yes, Hylan Blvd has higher ridership, but part of that has to do with the poor service along other corridors, not just Father Capodanno Blvd.  There are people that come from all over Staten Island to use the buses along Hylan because of infrequent service, unreliable service or both.

 

2. Yes, that's precisely why.  You want to cut off access to a hospital to save 3 - 4 minutes at the most and you're talking about "stupid" comments.  Don't make me laugh. It's one thing to remove a bus stop if it's a difference of walking a few blocks in say Manhattan where you have decent options most of the time, but you want to remove that bus from serving the entire campus.  The fact that the S54 doesn't run on the weekends is likely part of the reason why people don't use the bus as it is for the hospital, so you in turn want to make bus service in the area even more inaccessible.  Doesn't get any stupider than that.  You also talk about using the savings for other services.  That's a great idea on paper, but the rarely operates like that, so yeah another stupid idea.

[checkmatechamp13]

1. Oh that's the least of my worries. You win the prize for saying stupid things consistently.  As for  Father Capodanno, big deal... You've rode along both corridors.  What does that have to do with buses running poorly in both the AM and PM? The point I was making was that if you have unreliable service and an alternative, well guess what? People will use which ever service is better.  Yes, Hylan Blvd has higher ridership, but part of that has to do with the poor service along other corridors, not just Father Capodanno Blvd.  There are people that come from all over Staten Island to use the buses along Hylan because of infrequent service, unreliable service or both.

 

2. Yes, that's precisely why.  You want to cut off access to a hospital to save 3 - 4 minutes at the most and you're talking about "stupid" comments.  Don't make me laugh. It's one thing to remove a bus stop if it's a difference of walking a few blocks in say Manhattan where you have decent options most of the time, but you want to remove that bus from serving the entire campus.  The fact that the S54 doesn't run on the weekends is likely part of the reason why people don't use the bus as it is for the hospital, so you in turn want to make bus service in the area even more inaccessible.  Doesn't get any stupider than that.  You also talk about using the savings for other services.  That's a great idea on paper, but the rarely operates like that, so yeah another stupid idea.

 

1. Alright, so some of those riders are people coming from other parts of Staten Island. Doesn't change the fact that Hylan Blvd is a busy corridor in its own right. The question is (which is why I said I'm tossing it off the wall) is, is there enough ridership on Hylan to sustain a branch that goes up the West Side of Manhattan and across 42nd Street (or another crosstown street)? Or would the lack of frequency make it better to just stick with the existing services that are slower but run more frequently? (In other words, West Side riders are just going to have to make due with the X7/9)

 

2. Right, so I would solve the fact that the S54 doesn't run on the weekends by running it on the weekends, and extending it to the ferry (and creating a branch of the S79 to cover the Great Kills portion) so that it has more connections available to generate more ridership.

 

As for using the savings for other services, well by definition, running the S54 on the weekends is adding service (and that's the only way you could justify having the S57 bypass Seaview), so even within that plan it requires the MTA to use funds to improve service (and aside from the fact that it's an improvement from current service levels with no weekend service, it's even an improvement compared to the old S42 & S54 because it improves connectivity and takes pressure off busier routes).

 

I mean, as it is right now, the S54 & S57 are usually scheduled very closely together (you'll be pulling out of one of the loops and see the other bus entering the loop from the other side), so you have two buses looping through the whole campus, and maybe one of them picks up or drops off a passenger. I don't think you'd be saying it's "stupid" to save 3-4 minutes if it gets you to your connection in time to not have to wait a whole 30 minutes or whatever the headway might be for the next bus or SIR train.