Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

[aemoreira81]

One thing I would throw out there might be an S66 restructuring to give the route its own unique market. The route serves Grymes Hill, which while it looks close to Victory Boulevard on paper, has a difference in elevation enough to warrant its own market.

From the ferry: Regular S66 route to Louis Street, then: left on Louis Street, right on Howard Avenue, winding along Howard Avenue to Clove Road, continue onto Tioga Street, merge onto Little Clove Road, left on Renwick Avenue, left on Milford Drive, right on Ocean Terrace, winding down Ocean Terrace to Manor Road, right on Manor Road, left on Victory Boulevard, right on Jewett, and existing route through Westerleigh to Port Richmond.

From Port Richmond: regular S66 route to Victory and Manor, then: right on Manor Road, left on Ocean Terrace, winding through northern Todt Hill, right on Milford Drive, left on Clove Road, right on Howard Avenue, winding down Howard Avenue to Louis Street (the end), left on Louis, right on Victory, and to the ferry.

New ridership generators would be as follows:

Todt Hill Houses (one-seat ride to the ferry)

Petrides Campus (semi-full-time service)

St. John's University, Staten Island (easier service to the ferry with direct service at the front gate and at Greta Place, without having to walk to Arlo Road along Howard Avenue).

The real surprise is how Todt Hill Houses doesn't have a ferry connection.

That said, this likely requires one additional bus per hour and I would also propose Saturday service but not Sunday service yet.

Edited March 30, 2018 by aemoreira81

[Gotham Bus Co.]

7 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

One thing I would throw out there might be an S66 restructuring to give the route its own unique market. The route serves Grymes Hill, which while it looks close to Victory Boulevard on paper, has a difference in elevation enough to warrant its own market.

From the ferry: Regular S66 route to Louis Street, then: left on Louis Street, right on Howard Avenue, winding along Howard Avenue to Clove Road, continue onto Tioga Street, merge onto Little Clove Road, left on Renwick Avenue, left on Milford Drive, right on Ocean Terrace, winding down Ocean Terrace to Manor Road, right on Manor Road, left on Victory Boulevard, right on Jewett, and existing route through Westerleigh to Port Richmond.

From Port Richmond: regular S66 route to Victory and Manor, then: right on Manor Road, left on Ocean Terrace, winding through northern Todt Hill, right on Milford Drive, left on Clove Road, right on Howard Avenue, winding down Howard Avenue to Louis Street (the end), left on Louis, right on Victory, and to the ferry.

New ridership generators would be as follows:

Todt Hill Houses (one-seat ride to the ferry)

Petrides Campus (semi-full-time service)

St. John's University, Staten Island (easier service to the ferry with direct service at the front gate and at Greta Place, without having to walk to Arlo Road along Howard Avenue).

The real surprise is how Todt Hill Houses doesn't have a ferry connection.

That said, this likely requires one additional bus per hour and I would also propose Saturday service but not Sunday service yet.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to simply reroute the S61 to stay on Harold Street (which becomes Ocean Terrace)? Then the S66 can use Victory directly. 

Would the folks along Ocean Terrace be wiling to give up parts of their properties for sidewalks to accommodate bus stops? 

[checkmatechamp13]

12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

One thing I would throw out there might be an S66 restructuring to give the route its own unique market. The route serves Grymes Hill, which while it looks close to Victory Boulevard on paper, has a difference in elevation enough to warrant its own market.

From the ferry: Regular S66 route to Louis Street, then: left on Louis Street, right on Howard Avenue, winding along Howard Avenue to Clove Road, continue onto Tioga Street, merge onto Little Clove Road, left on Renwick Avenue, left on Milford Drive, right on Ocean Terrace, winding down Ocean Terrace to Manor Road, right on Manor Road, left on Victory Boulevard, right on Jewett, and existing route through Westerleigh to Port Richmond.

From Port Richmond: regular S66 route to Victory and Manor, then: right on Manor Road, left on Ocean Terrace, winding through northern Todt Hill, right on Milford Drive, left on Clove Road, right on Howard Avenue, winding down Howard Avenue to Louis Street (the end), left on Louis, right on Victory, and to the ferry.

New ridership generators would be as follows:

Todt Hill Houses (one-seat ride to the ferry)

Petrides Campus (semi-full-time service)

St. John's University, Staten Island (easier service to the ferry with direct service at the front gate and at Greta Place, without having to walk to Arlo Road along Howard Avenue).

The real surprise is how Todt Hill Houses doesn't have a ferry connection.

That said, this likely requires one additional bus per hour and I would also propose Saturday service but not Sunday service yet.

 

Nothing from the Victory Blvd corridor has any business heading towards Port Richmond. You can tinker with the routing through the hills south of Victory Blvd all you want, but if you really want to boost ridership on the S66, you need to address that issue. Ultimately, if you want to provide more coverage in Todt Hill/Emerson Hill (and more of Grymes Hill), it's just that....coverage. Whatever latent ridership you gain by traveling to those areas (which isn't much) will be lost by the fact that you elongated the trip to/from St. George.

Also, the area by Petrides on Milford Drive is a traffic nightmare in the morning. Whether you're approaching through Windsor Road/Little Clove Road or through the SIE exit ramp or through Ocean Drive, you can't avoid it. Victory Blvd is no picnic itself near Clove Road, but it's still not as bad as that part of Milford Drive.

And the Todt Hill Houses aren't that far from Victory Blvd. From the southeast corner of the property, it's about 0.55 miles to either Victory & Manor or Victory & Slosson, not terrible for a ferry-bound bus on Staten Island.

5 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Wouldn't it be easier to simply reroute the S61 to stay on Harold Street (which becomes Ocean Terrace)? Then the S66 can use Victory directly. 

Would the folks along Ocean Terrace be wiling to give up parts of their properties for sidewalks to accommodate bus stops? 

1

The S61 is a busier route than the S66 and so more riders would be subject to the slower route. Additionally, riders in Heartland Village would lose access to the Victory Blvd commercial strip (and Bradley Avenue, which is a fairly dense corridor would be left with just the infrequent S57 for local service). Also, it doesn't serve the Todt Hill Houses directly. (It's actually further to reach Ocean Terrace vs. Victory Blvd from there). 

[Lil 57]

Here's my routes in the doc file below:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rO_mP36pv_uJYzR8nPginT62XA2bAm_rIBplsA5XYr0/edit?usp=sharing

[Lil 57]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:08 PM, aemoreira81 said:

Operationally, the S72 would be at Charleston and the S54 would move to Yukon Depot. If Yukon is full, the S61 would move to Charleston.

Or just switch the S54 to Yukon and the S57 to Castleton, makes way more sense. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 3/30/2018 at 12:11 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Nothing from the Victory Blvd corridor has any business heading towards Port Richmond. You can tinker with the routing through the hills south of Victory Blvd all you want, but if you really want to boost ridership on the S66, you need to address that issue. Ultimately, if you want to provide more coverage in Todt Hill/Emerson Hill (and more of Grymes Hill), it's just that....coverage. Whatever latent ridership you gain by traveling to those areas (which isn't much) will be lost by the fact that you elongated the trip to/from St. George.

Also, the area by Petrides on Milford Drive is a traffic nightmare in the morning. Whether you're approaching through Windsor Road/Little Clove Road or through the SIE exit ramp or through Ocean Drive, you can't avoid it. Victory Blvd is no picnic itself near Clove Road, but it's still not as bad as that part of Milford Drive.

And the Todt Hill Houses aren't that far from Victory Blvd. From the southeast corner of the property, it's about 0.55 miles to either Victory & Manor or Victory & Slosson, not terrible for a ferry-bound bus on Staten Island.

The S61 is a busier route than the S66 and so more riders would be subject to the slower route. Additionally, riders in Heartland Village would lose access to the Victory Blvd commercial strip (and Bradley Avenue, which is a fairly dense corridor would be left with just the infrequent S57 for local service). Also, it doesn't serve the Todt Hill Houses directly. (It's actually further to reach Ocean Terrace vs. Victory Blvd from there). 

I have to agree. The "Hill" neighborhoods of Staten Island have $$$, particularly Emerson Hill and Todt Hill. Those people are either driving, or making their way to the express buses. The people in those areas are generally too busy keeping up appearances. Doctors, lawyers and others with money are not making their way to local buses that's for sure, not with homes in the millions and incomes well over $150,000.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

36 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I have to agree. The "Hill" neighborhoods of Staten Island have $$$, particularly Emerson Hill and Todt Hill. Those people are either driving, or making their way to the express buses. The people in those areas are generally too busy keeping up appearances. Doctors, lawyers and others with money are not making their way to local buses that's for sure, not with homes in the millions and incomes well over $150,000.

I will say that maybe people like maids, nannies, tutors, etc could use it, but even then, I had a tutoring client in Todt Hill and they usually paid for an Uber for me to get to/from their home, or gave me a lift themselves. 

I will say that I have seen some people waiting for the S53 & X14 at that Clove/Milford stop (and yes, some of them do get on the S53, since it's early in the morning), but that's mostly during rush hours, and not really in enough numbers to justify a route heading deep into the neighborhood. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

30 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I will say that maybe people like maids, nannies, tutors, etc could use it, but even then, I had a tutoring client in Todt Hill and they usually paid for an Uber for me to get to/from their home, or gave me a lift themselves. 

I will say that I have seen some people waiting for the S53 & X14 at that Clove/Milford stop (and yes, some of them do get on the S53, since it's early in the morning), but that's mostly during rush hours, and not really in enough numbers to justify a route heading deep into the neighborhood. 

I would be honest in saying that Emerson Hill and especially Todt Hill don't want buses of any sort going up there (local or express).  Those two neighborhoods are two of the most exclusive, upscale/tony neighborhoods on the island.  Beautiful homes in Emerson Hill especially, and estate like homes on Todt Hill.  I'd call Emerson Hill a hillier version of Forest Hills Gardens, with great views and historical homes.   Even if they did, the logistics would be complicated. The layout of both neighborhoods is very suburban (many streets with no sidewalks), and narrow, hilly streets. You don't move to those areas for public transportation. You move there to get away and escape and keep up with the Joneses.  

I'm familiar with the stop you're talking about, but as you said, their numbers would not be enough to justify such a service.  On the X13/14/X16 I'd see a few people get on in the morning. At night I suspect those people are likely picked up (likely dropped off in the AM) given the terrain.

The only area that would probably go ok with a local bus is Grymes Hill, mainly because of the Wagner College crowd.  

 

I usually don't do Wikipedia, but whoever wrote it for Emerson Hill is spot on:

Quote

Emerson Hill is the name of a hilly area, and the neighborhood upon which the hill is situated in Staten Island, New York, one of the five boroughs of New York City, United States.

A highly affluent community, the roads on Emerson Hill are technically private, and several gates are found at approaches to the enclave. Since the gates are seldom closed and are not staffed by security personnel, it does not qualify as a gated community. Emerson Hill is separated from its northern neighbor Grymes Hill by the Staten Island Expressway. The equally exclusive neighborhood of Todt Hill — where private roads also exist — borders Emerson Hill on the south.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson_Hill,_Staten_Island

Edited May 29, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

 I'm familiar with the stop you're talking about, but as you said, their numbers would not be enough to justify such a service.  On the X13/14/X16 I'd see a few people get on in the morning. At night I suspect those people are likely picked up (likely dropped off in the AM) given the terrain.

The only area that would probably go ok with a local bus is Grymes Hill, mainly because of the Wagner College crowd.  

I've had to work in that area in the morning, and those people I'm referring to tended to actually walk (at least in the summer anyway), but I suspect that they lived towards the bottom of the hill (basically, up one of those side streets between Clove Road and Renwick Avenue, which is where Petrides is and you have the beginning of Ocean Terrace). I've gone to some Community Board meetings (Community Board 2) and there's a couple of people from that area who say they even walk in the PM rush when it's nice out. It doesn't strike me as an area like say, Slosson or Fingerboard where you'll see cars parked with their hazard lights on waiting for whoever they're supposed to be picking up.

As for Grymes Hill, the area served by the S66 is a middle-class section with garden apartments (the area around Arlo Road). I suppose some students live there, but it's mostly just regular people there. It's the area east of where the S66 turns off where it becomes more affluent (in other words, that's the reason the S66 makes a sharp turn onto Arlo Road to head back towards Victory instead of continuing straight up Howard down to say, Eddy or Louis Street)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I've had to work in that area in the morning, and those people I'm referring to tended to actually walk (at least in the summer anyway), but I suspect that they lived towards the bottom of the hill (basically, up one of those side streets between Clove Road and Renwick Avenue, which is where Petrides is and you have the beginning of Ocean Terrace). I've gone to some Community Board meetings (Community Board 2) and there's a couple of people from that area who say they even walk in the PM rush when it's nice out. It doesn't strike me as an area like say, Slosson or Fingerboard where you'll see cars parked with their hazard lights on waiting for whoever they're supposed to be picking up.

As for Grymes Hill, the area served by the S66 is a middle-class section with garden apartments (the area around Arlo Road). I suppose some students live there, but it's mostly just regular people there. It's the area east of where the S66 turns off where it becomes more affluent (in other words, that's the reason the S66 makes a sharp turn onto Arlo Road to head back towards Victory instead of continuing straight up Howard down to say, Eddy or Louis Street)

Yeah, I mean I wouldn't be surprised if some of them walk, but mainly by choice. The point still is that you wouldn't have enough of those people to have a service running in either Emerson Hill or Todt Hill. Walking when the weather is nice... Hell I've done that from time to time myself... Walking to or from the X10 on weekends, but that wasn't something I normally did, and I suspect not a lot of people do it regularly in either neighorhood, not unless they're maids or someone who has no choice. I've seen a similar thing in Fieldston. Usually students at Manhattan College or workers.

As for Grymes Hill, I purposely left it separate from Emerson Hill and Todt Hill. I'm well aware of it being a middle class area, but in terms of who uses the bus, mainly students with some residents mixed in. I considered the area myself, and would not move there without a car.

[B35 via Church]

Quote

"....Now I agree with splitting the S74 at Eltingville B35, but if that is to be done, I would say that it would need to serve more of the South Shore. Public transit down here is centered by the express bus, which means nothing for my two daughters who I drive to school every morning, because the S56 turns off at Arden and the S55 is too far south. You can copy this to NYCTF if you want to, but this is my suggestion.

Have the S74 start at Bricktown and maintain the real routeing until it reaches Huguenot, which then it would make a right turn on Huguenot, right on AMboy, left on Luten, Left on Hylan, left back on Huguenot, right on Drumgoole east, left on Annadale, right on Arthur Kill, and right into the Transit center."

I then ask him, what would happen to the S55 & the S56... His response:

Quote

 

"I would eliminate the S55, B35.

With the S56, I would have it start at Bricktown with the S74 & S78. From the Target, it would cut to the mall where Tyrellan begins, continue on Tyrellan, then it would make a right on Boscombe, left on Page, left on Amboy, continue up Bloomingdale, right on Woodrow, right on Foster, right on Amboy, left on Seguine, left on Luten, right on Amboy, continue up Annnadale, left on Arden, right on WOodrow, right on Arthur Kill, and right inside the Transit center."

 

 

I'll say this much... it's clever & noble what he's trying to do (In bits & pieces, I actually agree with this plan), but I don't care for the total execution.... It reminds me of the Flemington shuttle & the Easton-Phillipsburg routes (890/1) down in NJ.... You can't get away with one-size-fits-alling bus service like that in the South Shore.....

[BreeddekalbL]

If you split the 74 at ETC what covers it's other half?

[checkmatechamp13]

3 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

If you split the 74 at ETC what covers it's other half?

Just give the other half another number. That's the definition of a route split

[MysteriousBtrain]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Just give the other half another number. That's the definition of a route split

Is there even that much ridership west of ETC? Yeah it's long but the setup is fine imo. If anything, just cut the S74 Rush Hours and have the S84 expanded in it's place.

[Q43LTD]

Wouldn't the S84 get AM rush service for the first time? I know the S91 runs when the S61 doesn't

[checkmatechamp13]

4 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Is there even that much ridership west of ETC? Yeah it's long but the setup is fine imo. If anything, just cut the S74 Rush Hours and have the S84 expanded in it's place.

It impacts reliability on both ends of the route and there's high turnover there anyway,  so not that many people would have to transfer  (and many people would have more reliable service).

2 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Wouldn't the S84 get AM rush service for the first time? I know the S91 runs when the S61 doesn't

Except there would be local stops without any service if all AM S74s became S84s, especially with the long nonstop portions (plural) south of the SIE. The stops skipped by the S91 are covered by the S62 (that pattern should really run in the PM rush as well)

[B35 via Church]

18 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

If you split the 74 at ETC what covers it's other half?

That's what the discussion entailed.

Now I'm inclined to agree with the guy (in the quoted posts) that the western half of the S74 by as is, is somewhat of a waste - But at the same time, that reconfiguration of his does too much.... You can't try to "town shuttle" the South Shore of SI.... Local bus usage isn't the greatest, however, the South Shore is far more dense than people like to give credit for....

My answer to that question of yours is simply, the other half of the S74.

13 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Is there even that much ridership west of ETC? Yeah it's long but the setup is fine imo. If anything, just cut the S74 Rush Hours and have the S84 expanded in it's place.

That's the point - the western portion of the S74 would exist for coverage.... Length isn't so much the issue, as much as it is reliability.

[Lil 57]

11 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

It impacts reliability on both ends of the route and there's high turnover there anyway,  so not that many people would have to transfer  (and many people would have more reliable service).

Except there would be local stops without any service if all AM S74s became S84s, especially with the long nonstop portions (plural) south of the SIE. The stops skipped by the S91 are covered by the S62 (that pattern should really run in the PM rush as well)

IMO, I would eliminate the S61 and S62 during the rush hour and bring back the S67. The S67 serves the local portion on Victory Blvd and also gives Westerleigh a one seat ride to the ferry.

[S78 via Hylan]

10 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

IMO, I would eliminate the S61 and S62 during the rush hour and bring back the S67. The S67 serves the local portion on Victory Blvd and also gives Westerleigh a one seat ride to the ferry.

For what? The current setup works as it does now.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

18 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

IMO, I would eliminate the S61 and S62 during the rush hour and bring back the S67. The S67 serves the local portion on Victory Blvd and also gives Westerleigh a one seat ride to the ferry.

Please. Westerleigh is an affluent neighborhood.  Somewhere around $80,000 - 85,000 for the median income, but there are numerous parts of the neighborhood where the incomes are around $140,000.  I lived close to Westerleigh and we shared the same zip codes, so I know.  Most of them are too busy making their way over to the X12 and X42 express buses.  There was a lady who I rode the X14 with to get home.  A big time corporate lawyer at a large international company.  Dressed very conservatively, but she made some serious money based on her position.  I used to always chuckle with her via e-mail about how I saw her since she would use things with the company name on them.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

7 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

IMO, I would eliminate the S61 and S62 during the rush hour and bring back the S67. The S67 serves the local portion on Victory Blvd and also gives Westerleigh a one seat ride to the ferry.

I will say this: I agree that Watchogue Road could use a local route to the ferry. In the short-term, suggested that the S62 short-turn buses be reused as S67 buses coming from the Bulls Head/Graniteville area. So in the morning, buses would start at Goethals Road North & Richmond Avenue, loop around Goethals, South, Fahy, and Lamberts, then take Richmond Avenue to Deppe Place, and continue down Watchogue Road to Victory Blvd.

In the afternoon, buses would continue down Watchogue/Deppe to Richmond, take Richmond to Goethals Road North, and then loop down South Avenue and Fahy Avenue/Lamberts Lane to Richmond Avenue. 

The idea is to serve the Bulls Head/Graniteville area in both directions, since the SIE blocks riders from crossing over between both sides of the SIE (Otherwise, I would end it at Goethals & South and call it a day). That would be more effective than simply restoring the old S67.

Long-term, I would want to send the S66 over to Bulls Head/Graniteville via Watchogue, and have the S57 run to Port Richmond via Jewett (I would have a limited-stop variant that bypasses Grymes Hill during rush hour, while local service starts at Jewett). 

[Q43LTD]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:25 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

It impacts reliability on both ends of the route and there's high turnover there anyway,  so not that many people would have to transfer  (and many people would have more reliable service).

Except there would be local stops without any service if all AM S74s became S84s, especially with the long nonstop portions (plural) south of the SIE. The stops skipped by the S91 are covered by the S62 (that pattern should really run in the PM rush as well)

Well then, have the S84 start at Bricktown local to Eltingville then LTD  to the ferry. The S74 can start at ETC. Other times, maintain the current service pattern

[checkmatechamp13]

15 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Well then, have the S84 start at Bricktown local to Eltingville then LTD  to the ferry. The S74 can start at ETC. Other times, maintain the current service pattern

You're not understanding the issue that we're trying to solve by splitting the route. The issue isn't that the route has too much runtime. The issue is that the length of the route and the various chokepoints it passes through cause it to be delayed for passengers on both ends. Even on a good day, the S84 is usually a few minutes late pulling into the ETC heading westbound.

Sure, I agree that the S84 should run in both directions, but not under the current configuration. S74 short-turns should start at Targee/DeKalb heading northbound, and terminate at Richmond Road & Narrows Road South heading southbound, while the S84 starts/terminates at the Eltingville Transit Center (Off-peak, all S74s run between the ETC & St. George). All areas west of the ETC will still have service (at the minimum with the other half of the split route).  The S74 being the second-longest route in the city for no practical reason (i.e. Significant numbers of people riding it from end-to-end or close to it) isn't something to be proud of.

The S74 doesn't make many stops south of the SIE. Between the SIE & New Dorp Lane, you'll probably stop at Seaview, the Berry Houses, Midland, and maybe 1 or 2 other stops. You'll probably stop at Enfield Place (basically Rockland Avenue) and Armstrong Avenue (which are S84 stops anyway), and then maybe a couple of random stops in Richmondtown/Great Kills and that's it. The stops aren't what slow down the S74 and make it unreliable. It's the traffic (people trying to avoid Hylan Blvd, backups related to the SIE, sometimes backups in the Stapleton area headed southbound for whatever reason). Then of course, there's the inherent unreliability of a route serving the ferry (if the ferry is late, they'll hold the buses, sometimes unreasonably so. So already, a bus might pull out 5-10 minutes from the very beginning). Coming from the South Shore, you sometimes have backups related to the Outerbridge Crossing, and then if there's any variability along the industrial part of Arthur Kill Road, like a shift change causing the bus to make a few stops, combined with an overly cautious driver) and before you know it, the bus is 20 minutes late before it even pulls into the ETC. 

[161 New York]

7 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

 

I believe that there may be an effort to bring all MTA bus operators under one union (or under a subsidiary of TWU 100; Spring Creek workers, after firing ATU 1181/1061, joined TWU 100 as TWU 100A. That said, I can't see a serious issue being raised if some buses are permanently assigned to MJQ. This may require legislation though, which unions would oppose, to require that all in a job title for an employer must be represented by a single bargaining agent (which would actually bring the state in line with federal law on interstate carriers - which is why ATU 1700 represents all Greyhound drivers).

---REPLY ENDS HERE---

Separately from this, I would also argue that the MTA should also operate some express bus routes into New Jersey to better serve Staten Islanders who work in NJ, as well as to serve Newark Airport full-time. I would propose:

SIM40: Eltingville Transit Center - Newark Liberty International Airport (weekdays) - weekdays, hourly service

SIM41: Eltingville Transit Center - 34 Street (HBLR), replacing the S89 with faster buses, weekdays

SIM40C:  Eltingville Transit Center - 34 Street (HBLR) - Newark Airport (weekends) - every 2 hours

* NOTE: if the Bayonne Bridge is closed, Newark Airport gets serviced first, then 34 Street HBLR

SIM42: Eltingville Transit Center to The Mills at Jersey Gardens 

SIM50: Castleton Depot to Metropark (to NJ AM, from NJ PM)

SIM51: Castleton Depot to Raritan Center (to NJ AM, from NJ PM)

For the latter two, a mini-bus would be sent to pick up drivers to bring them back to Staten Island.

 

TA/OA and MTA Bus Company (Spring Creek) are two completely and totally different business entities under MTA .  The Michael J. Quill depot, its buses and bus operators, surface line dispatchers and maintenance teams have absolutely nothing to do MTA Bus Company.

Personally, I disagree that MTA New York City Transit should operate interstate service. The economic benefits are for New Jersey, not New York. New Jersey should run it, subsidize it (DOT grants, corporate subsidies etc) if it so desires to or bless it (a la any necessary permits -if any etc). As we know, there was only one (or two) private carrier, Red & Tan (a Coach USA "entity" (as I am unclear of their affiliation) in the last 20 years that ran scheduled interstate coach service between Staten Island and Hoboken/Jersey City, which ultimately led to the creation of the s89.
 

As I have said previously. The s89 serves a dual purpose, a somewhat faster ride, being limited service along Richmond Ave with additional capacity for school kids in the AM as well as the commuter purpose. For the most part, except for the long-standing detour onto the Dr. MLK Expressway, the s89 works as intended.
 

As we have seen with the Staten Island Express Bus Realignment - Nobody seems to like or want to transfer. So selling a three system transfer (to Manhattan as many people do) does not appear likely.

Getting back to interstate service and NYCT, with respect to the s89, there are only 8, high seniority runs. The runs are straight, they do not interline with anything else meaning, a guy/gal won't do 5 round trips on the s44 and do a round trip on the s89. The folks you see driving only operate the s89. This is because of federal rules, DOT FMCSA (Department of Transportation Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration) which strictly dictates the hours of service (actual driving and "on duty" time) for that individual - (this also entails a separate medical exam as well). Having only eight folks do these runs keeps things manageable. However "issues" arise when you have operator availability issues such as a B/O having an accident, going out sick or simply going AWOL. Now when these operator availability issues arise, the crew dispatcher than has to utilize a resource, such as an "Extra List" operator, lets say YU XL 64,  who was previously not subject to federal DOT regulations, but instead of the somewhat more generous (with respect to hours of service) NYS 19-A laws which all NYCTA/OA/BC operators are subject to (regardless of state of residency) to make service. Given the various complexities of federal law, this will now limit YU XL 64's activities for the rest of the week and this is monitored by the Department of Buses. Further complicating this , while many Yukon B/O's maintain the federal certifications (NJ/PA residents, by default) many NYS residents may not.

Living on Staten Island for 30+ years, i don't see these SIM4x and SIM5x proposals gaining any traction, especially for Middlesex service. Maybe an entrepreneur can start something near the hotels along the West Shore Expressway and have both a long-term parking/kiss and ride for EWR service. Workers can use the street/service roads. As I addressed previously:

- The 10 (Operated by Academy/22 Hillside), certain trips can be extended over the Bayonne Bridge to either Forest & Richmond Avenues or a "Bridge Plaza" stop and turnaround for connection from Staten Island to Journal Square.

- The new Goethals Bridge now has a pedestrian walkway, which will open sometime in the next year or so, while very undesirable given it's proximity to a sewage treatment plant and whatever is being cooked up along the aptly named Chemical Coast, people do have an option. Perhaps Coach USA which has dominance in Union & Essex County could look at starting a service with a sole SI stop being at Forest & Richmond. This could also solve or at least provide help to a long-standing problem for Bayonne and Jersey City residents who rely on public transportation need to travel between Hudson & Union Counties without a trek to Union City if the above is implemented.

- I strongly feel that there should be something over the Outerbridge Crossing. Ideally, something that goes to Woodbridge Mall area to the ETC would be good. Again Academy Express which has dominance in Middlesex County as the NJT's contract carrier for the 8xx routes would be best suited for this.

Even outside of NJT and the big name PBL's. As I have said previously, nothing, absolutely nothing outside of the requisite federal requirements (unless NYS based (then see NYS Article 19A requirements) prevents anyone with a minibus, coach bus or a van from starting a interstate service. Paterson/Passaic, Hudson Counties still deal with the "jitneys" that traverse their roadways and front run NJT's scheduled service essentially "poaching" fares. For 2018, they appear to have been on their best behaviour as I am not aware of any high profile incidents or accidents that they have been involved in. Every now and then the Port Authority, Fort Lee PD and certain specially trained NYPD units (near the Lincoln Tunnel) will do spot checks on vehicles for the usual safety and license checks - separate from the actual service they provide.

Edited December 27, 2018 by 161 New York

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Separately from this, I would also argue that the MTA should also operate some express bus routes into New Jersey to better serve Staten Islanders who work in NJ, as well as to serve Newark Airport full-time. I would propose:

SIM40: Eltingville Transit Center - Newark Liberty International Airport (weekdays) - weekdays, hourly service

SIM41: Eltingville Transit Center - 34 Street (HBLR), replacing the S89 with faster buses, weekdays

SIM40C:  Eltingville Transit Center - 34 Street (HBLR) - Newark Airport (weekends) - every 2 hours

* NOTE: if the Bayonne Bridge is closed, Newark Airport gets serviced first, then 34 Street HBLR

SIM42: Eltingville Transit Center to The Mills at Jersey Gardens 

SIM50: Castleton Depot to Metropark (to NJ AM, from NJ PM)

SIM51: Castleton Depot to Raritan Center (to NJ AM, from NJ PM)

For the latter two, a mini-bus would be sent to pick up drivers to bring them back to Staten Island.

The problem I have with this proposal is a simple one - None of these should be a] MTA operated & b] express routes (if they were to be MTA operated)....

Generally speaking, I have always liked the idea of an SI -Elizabeth (Jersey Gardens) via Bayonne route (moreso than, say, an SI-Elizabeth route via the outerbridge), but I believe it should be an NJT operated local route, not an MTA express route..... Have it be *somewhat* similar to how the NJT #62 is structured; SI - Bayonne, then running through the airport (all terminals) before ending at JG (where the #40 & #24A/B terminates, not where the #111 does).... The route would have 2 zones - a 1 zone NJ intrastate route & if you wish to cross state lines, you get charged with the cost of an interstate zone 3 ride (that's that $4.50 IINM).... Whether it should run closed door in SI & how deep into SI it should run to, are debatable/up for discussion....

That takes care of what you're trying to do w/ the 40/c, 41, and the 42

As for what you'd like to accomplish with the 50/51, to be perfectly honest, I wouldn't bother with any [SI - Raritan Center] or [SI - Metropark] route (regardless of service type).... You're not taking those people out of their cars.... Demand for fixed bus service to both Iselin (for the purpose of serving the offices themselves out there) or Raritan Center, from SI, I can not imagine being remotely adequate enough to warrant it.... If you're talking about running a bus service to NJT Metropark (the RR station), while there are quite a bit of SI-ers driving there for rail service, good luck getting those people to a] wait for a bus, b] take it only to NJT Metropark, c] to THEN ride up to Newark or into NYC....

...especially with the notorious & ever increasing delays that plaguing the NJT rails these days.