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FamousNYLover

Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013

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On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 AM, Lil 57 said:

After some consideration, I’ve made quite a bit of edits to my redesign proposal, here are the main edits.

Map
Service Guide

S52: Straightened out to run straight down Sand Lane instead of meandering through South Beach. The S58 covers McClean Ave.

S53/83 LTD: The S53 operates straight down the Narrows Road like the S83 LTD. The S58 covers south beach. The S83 LTD operates peak hours only due to this change. (The S53 is pretty quick off-peak and the frequency is too low off-peak to warrant a limited stop route without having long headways on the S53 and S83 LTD.)

S54: Rerouted to go straight down Amboy Road from Clarke Ave to Nelson Ave instead of meandering around Richmondtown. The S73 covers Giffords Lane.

S58 (New Route): The S58 is a new route that operates from Bay Ridge to the West Shore Plaza via South Beach (Replacing the S53 and allowing the S52 to be straightened there), and via Gannon Ave/Victory Blvd. On Weekdays, some S58 trips would terminate at the Teleport instead of the West Shore Plaza. Runs 7 days a week.

S72: Replaces the S73 south of the Bricktown Mall and is extended to Tottenville as a result.

S73: Southern terminal moved to the Bricktown Mall and service to Tottenville is replaced by the S72. Northern terminal moved to the Great Kills SIR Station via Giffords lane to give Great Kills 7 day service.

S74: Overnight terminal moved to the Bricktown Mall instead of Tottenville.

S78: Huguenot Ave service is reduced to weekdays only, all other times (minus overnights) the S78 terminates at Hylan Blvd/Richmond Ave.

Notes:

The S54 isn’t as necessary due to the S73 and the S42 covering up most of it's old (today's) routing. However, it would be nice to have coverage for the Todt Hill area since that area is very hilly and is far away from any bus routes.

The S59 could have short turns from the ferry to Yukon Ave since the S59 carries light south of Yukon Ave.

I’m wondering if the S72 should have hourly weekend service. It would only require one bus and a few drivers due to the short trip time (reliefs could be done at the Chaleston Depot). But would there be any demand for 7-day service to the more industrial part of Arthur Kill Road?   

Well, the one thing offhand is that bus drivers at Charleston aren't going to be happy if the route serving their depot is weekday-only, or runs once an hour on the weekends.

I still think Huguenot Avenue needs 7 day service. I get that you're having the S55/56 run nearby, and with some walking, riders can use those routes to travel north-south, but I think that area is dense enough to warrant 7-day north-south service.

Not wild about how you served Great Kills. I'd imagine there would be complete turnover at the ETC (in other words, the Great Kills riders would all get off there, and vice versa for buses coming from Charleston/Rossville/Arden Heights) and ridership on the Great Kills portion would be very low. In my plan, I basically have a branch of the S79 covering it (as well as McClean Avenue. Basically, it's an S79 local via Great Kills & South Beach). Another option would be to have the S42/54 cover it (in other words, St. George-Eltingville via Great Kills, via Manor Road, via Cottage Hill). That route would be way too long (honestly I'm not wild about your S59 covering it), so something would have to give on that end (maybe just have the S42 run from St. George to Castleton & Clove via Cottage Hill, and then have the S54 run from West Brighton to Eltingville via the SI Mall and Great Kills).

The S74 definitely shouldn't end at Bricktown Mall overnight. It should continue all the way down to Tottenville and provide coverage there (as I said I really don't like the idea of the Hylan Blvd route going up to Bricktown, but especially overnight).

Also, one slight thing I would change on the S46: The official terminal should be South & Forest. Those 2 extra turns from South to Forest and Forest to Grandview contribute to the already-bad reliability issues. Those turns date back to the days when the terminal of the S46 was at Forest Avenue, and they actually needed to turn around. Nowadays, those short-turns are all deadheads (either to/from the depot, or to/from the ferry to do another route). So they can just make a left and drop their final passengers off at the S48/98 stop. And in the morning, they can layover on Grandview (southbound) and then turn the 2 corners and start their route at South & Forest (the S40/48/90/98 stop by Harbor Freight Tools). 

Also, the S74/84 local/limited pattern should start at the SIE like the S76/86, not at New Dorp Lane. Passengers between New Dorp and Concord still have the SIR for quick service to the ferry (and notice, even the current S74 short-turns start at DeKalb). There really isn't anything special about New Dorp Lane in terms of being a major pickup/drop-off stop. The vast majority of S84 riders are traveling north of the SIE.

I also think the S81/86 should run in the AM rush as well. Maybe have the S76 run up Osgood/Mosel, but have the S86 stay along Targee/Richmond Road & Vanderbilt Avenue to provide a quicker/more reliable ride for those to/from points south.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry for taking a while to respond, I was in LA and Jamaica this past week.

On 8/15/2019 at 3:25 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

All I know is no one is using a local bus every hour. Express buses yes... Different situation. You would need a bus every 30 minutes.

While I agree that most local buses in NYC should operate at least every 30 minutes, in some areas of Staten Island, hourly service would be fine. I mostly put hourly headway during evenings and some weekend mornings on routes that serve the South Shore. Those areas have a very high car ownership rate compared to the rest of of the city and people are less likely to be taking buses on the south shore of Staten Island so it should be fine to have hourly service down there (Instead of cutting the hours short).

On 8/17/2019 at 1:25 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

I still think Huguenot Avenue needs 7 day service. I get that you're having the S55/56 run nearby, and with some walking, riders can use those routes to travel north-south, but I think that area is dense enough to warrant 7-day north-south service.

On 8/17/2019 at 1:25 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Well, the one thing offhand is that bus drivers at Charleston aren't going to be happy if the route serving their depot is weekday-only, or runs once an hour on the weekends.

My goal is for on weekends, to have everyone on the South Shore of SI to be within 3/4 of a mile from a 7-day local bus route. Since the S56 would cover both the busier part of Arthur Kill Road and the Forster Road area (which is around half a mile from Huguenot Ave), I chose to run that on weekends. An other option (but more expensive), is to operate the S72 every 30-60 minutes and have alternative S78 buses service Rossville via Huguenot Ave on weekends and have the S56 be a weekday only route.

On 8/17/2019 at 1:25 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

The S74 definitely shouldn't end at Bricktown Mall overnight. It should continue all the way down to Tottenville and provide coverage there (as I said I really don't like the idea of the Hylan Blvd route going up to Bricktown, but especially overnight).

Fair enough. The S74 can be extended to the S72 terminal in Tottenville overnight. The S78 could also terminate there overnight as well since the Bricktown Mall is closed and the S74 and S78 can be interlined in Tottenville overnight as well.

On 8/17/2019 at 1:25 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Not wild about how you served Great Kills. I'd imagine there would be complete turnover at the ETC (in other words, the Great Kills riders would all get off there, and vice versa for buses coming from Charleston/Rossville/Arden Heights) and ridership on the Great Kills portion would be very low. In my plan, I basically have a branch of the S79 covering it (as well as McClean Avenue. Basically, it's an S79 local via Great Kills & South Beach). Another option would be to have the S42/54 cover it (in other words, St. George-Eltingville via Great Kills, via Manor Road, via Cottage Hill). That route would be way too long (honestly I'm not wild about your S59 covering it), so something would have to give on that end (maybe just have the S42 run from St. George to Castleton & Clove via Cottage Hill, and then have the S54 run from West Brighton to Eltingville via the SI Mall and Great Kills).

The reason why I decided to have the S73 serve Great Kills is to give South Shore riders a faster way to the ferry by having a connection with the SIR at the Great Kills SIR station instead of having people transfer to the S74. Also the S73 returns 7-day local bus service to the Great Kills area and gives them a quicker ride to destinations on the South Shore and a quicker ride to the SI Mall (with a transfer at the ETC).

On 8/17/2019 at 1:25 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Also, one slight thing I would change on the S46: The official terminal should be South & Forest. Those 2 extra turns from South to Forest and Forest to Grandview contribute to the already-bad reliability issues. Those turns date back to the days when the terminal of the S46 was at Forest Avenue, and they actually needed to turn around. Nowadays, those short-turns are all deadheads (either to/from the depot, or to/from the ferry to do another route). So they can just make a left and drop their final passengers off at the S48/98 stop. And in the morning, they can layover on Grandview (southbound) and then turn the 2 corners and start their route at South & Forest (the S40/48/90/98 stop by Harbor Freight Tools). 

In my plan, some S46 buses would return to the Ferry from Grandview/Forest since service south of Forest Ave would be reduced due to low Ridership and approximately half the buses on weekends would be short turns to Grandview/Forest which would need to be turned around.

On 8/17/2019 at 1:25 AM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Also, the S74/84 local/limited pattern should start at the SIE like the S76/86, not at New Dorp Lane. Passengers between New Dorp and Concord still have the SIR for quick service to the ferry (and notice, even the current S74 short-turns start at DeKalb). There really isn't anything special about New Dorp Lane in terms of being a major pickup/drop-off stop. The vast majority of S84 riders are traveling north of the SIE.

I also think the S81/86 should run in the AM rush as well. Maybe have the S76 run up Osgood/Mosel, but have the S86 stay along Targee/Richmond Road & Vanderbilt Avenue to provide a quicker/more reliable ride for those to/from points south.

Remember that in the PM rush, express SIR service skips the New Dorp Station so people are forced on the locals. I'm also thinking that the S84 would make a few extra stops between the Narrows Road and New Dorp Lane. S84 stops could be added at Richmond/Seaview, Richmond/Seaver and Richmond/Lincoln.

The Issue with the S81/86 operating in the AM rush is that the headways of the S51/76 aren't short enough without having long headways on the local routes. You could do it on the S51/81 during the AM rush with the S81 being the full route trips from 6:10 AM to 7:36 AM and the trips starting at Sand Lane be the local S51 trips, but that would leave the area of Bay Street south of the Clifton SIR Station left with local buses every 16-20 minutes during the AM Rush. Unless you increase the frequency of course. The S76 doesn't have any AM short turns so it would be much harder to make an S86 operate during the AM rush.

Edited by Lil 57

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21 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

Sorry for taking a while to respond, I was in LA and Jamaica this past week.

While I agree that most local buses in NYC should operate at least every 30 minutes, in some areas of Staten Island, hourly service would be fine. I mostly put hourly headway during evenings and some weekend mornings on routes that serve the South Shore. Those areas have a very high car ownership rate compared to the rest of of the city and people are less likely to be taking buses on the south shore of Staten Island so it should be fine to have hourly service down there (Instead of cutting the hours short).

That's precisely why they are car centric in the first place... Bus service is horrendous...

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@Lil 57 I agree with the (general) comment about hourly service. Some service is better than no service, and especially serving a bus depot, the span of service is important.

Would the S78 terminate at Huguenot & Arthur Kill in Arden Heights or would it terminate somewhere on Rossville Avenue?

Most of the cross streets have a direct route to the SIR already (Arden Heights/Aspen Knolls has the S55, Huguenot Avenue has the S78, and Rossville Avenue has the S56 (I forget what you called the Rossville/Foster route)

For the S46 just reverse the route and have the terminating buses run down Brabant to Grandview and terminate at Forest and come back around. Buses to/from the WSP should just run straight up South. 

Not sure what the SIR running express during rush hour has to do with the S84. There's barely any people getting off on the PM S84 at New Dorp Lane even with the long nonstop section (and especially on Fridays and days before holidays when traffic is terrible). Even on the S74, it generally doesn't make too many stops in that area. For the ferry or Tompkinsville from the New Dorp/Grant City/Dongan Hills area the vast majority use the SIR. The bus is used to get to areas not served by the SIR (e.g. ETC, parts of Stapleton/Park Hill, etc)

Also keep in mind even if a few people benefit from that pattern, that does take more resources (running limited to New Dorp vs Concord) that can be used elsewhere...like boosting the frequency on the S51/76 so they can have AM limited-stop service ;)

To be honest I'm not sure why the S76 has all of its AM trips from Oakwood Beach, especially since AM express trains serve New Dorp.

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On 8/25/2019 at 11:49 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's precisely why they are car centric in the first place... Bus service is horrendous..

On 8/26/2019 at 8:56 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

 I agree with the (general) comment about hourly service. Some service is better than no service, and especially serving a bus depot, the span of service is important.

In my plan, the routes that would have hourly evening service would generally be after 6:30 PM/7 PM (On Sundays mornings the S55 would have hourly service until around 9 AM SB/10 AM NB.) Remember that the S55/56 ends around 7 PM on weekdays now so this is a big improvement. If ridership increases on those routes, you could always increase the service to 30 minute headways. 

On 8/26/2019 at 8:56 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Would the S78 terminate at Huguenot & Arthur Kill in Arden Heights or would it terminate somewhere on Rossville Avenue?

The S78 Rossville branch would terminate at Arden/Arthur Kill and then turn around by going up Arden, onto the WSP Service road and back onto Arthur Kill to Huguenot.

On 8/26/2019 at 8:56 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Most of the cross streets have a direct route to the SIR already (Arden Heights/Aspen Knolls has the S55, Huguenot Avenue has the S78, and Rossville Avenue has the S56 (I forget what you called the Rossville/Foster route)

True, but remember that the S78 (or if the other plan is used, the S56) wouldn't run on weekends, so the S73 is the best choice. The area near the ETC and Arden Heights also have the S73 as the better option to the SIR.

On 8/26/2019 at 8:56 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

For the S46 just reverse the route and have the terminating buses run down Brabant to Grandview and terminate at Forest and come back around. Buses to/from the WSP should just run straight up South. 

That could be an option, usually the (MTA) wants the Short turn, following the full route as much as possible though.

On 8/26/2019 at 8:56 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Not sure what the SIR running express during rush hour has to do with the S84. There's barely any people getting off on the PM S84 at New Dorp Lane even with the long nonstop section (and especially on Fridays and days before holidays when traffic is terrible). Even on the S74, it generally doesn't make too many stops in that area. For the ferry or Tompkinsville from the New Dorp/Grant City/Dongan Hills area the vast majority use the SIR. The bus is used to get to areas not served by the SIR (e.g. ETC, parts of Stapleton/Park Hill, etc)

Also keep in mind even if a few people benefit from that pattern, that does take more resources (running limited to New Dorp vs Concord) that can be used elsewhere...like boosting the frequency on the S51/76 so they can have AM limited-stop service ;)

To be honest I'm not sure why the S76 has all of its AM trips from Oakwood Beach, especially since AM express trains serve New Dorp.

That is true, I just feel like that part of Richmond Road should have a rush hour limited stop route. However the local SIR does kinda act like a LTD for Richmond Road. What could be done is to have the PM SIR express trains make a stop at New Dorp and then cut back the LTD stops to the Narrows Road.

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6 minutes ago, Lil 57 said:

In my plan, the routes that would have hourly evening service would generally be after 6:30 PM/7 PM (On Sundays mornings the S55 would have hourly service until around 9 AM SB/10 AM NB.) Remember that the S55/56 ends around 7 PM on weekdays now so this is a big improvement. If ridership increases on those routes, you could always increase the service to 30 minute headways. 

As I said before local buses are different. Hourly express bus service is one thing. Hourly local bus service is another.  Doesn't make any sense to run a local bus once an hour.  Even overnight it's no good. Waits are simply too long...

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@Lil 57 Your proposed S78 terminal is in Arden Heights not Rossville. Rossville is the other side of the golf course.

Honestly I think the ridership is there for 30 minute headways given the density of those areas. But I agree 60 minute headways is better than nothing.

For the S46 it would be no different from the Bx5 short-turns to Pugsley Avenue.

And I agree with having the PM SIR express trains stop at New Dorp (not sure if I mentioned this but I also believe the locals that start/end at Great Kills should be extended to Eltingville for the bus connections

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Posted (edited)

As I see it, a major reason why SI is car-centric is because a lot of its development is very new---only dating back to the 1960s, 1970s, and later. Before the Verrazano Bridge was built, the only permanent connections were via New Jersey, which is why historically it was the North Shore that was built up and along the SIR. Before the Verrazano was built, much of the South Shore and central Staten Island was undeveloped, especially beyond New Dorp. (Staten Island Mall was built on previously undeveloped land.) It would be really interesting to see what the service levels were like on routes like the R4 (now S59 and part of the S54), R103 (now S78 and S79), and R108/R113. Keep in mind that the R115 was a rush-hour circulator for Tottenville High School at the time, and the S66 (then R6) was the full-time full-length Victory Boulevard route, with the R112 (now S62) running only from Castleton Corners to Travis, except during rush hours and Saturdays (with special Saturday service to what was then Willowbrook State School, now CSI).

When the Staten Island Expressway (working name during construction: Clove Lakes Expressway) was being built, what little development there was beyond Clove Road was largely rural.

Remember, Staten Island only has a population of about 0.48 million...in a city of 8.55 million. I know it's unpopular to say, but there are some parts of Staten Island on the South Shore where local bus service every hour would not be overkill.

To that end, one proposal I would make is:

S55. S59 and S78 provide direct service to Staten Island University Hospital South (on Seguine Avenue), via a loop.

S59 and S78, both directions: turn off at Seguine, loop around via Seguine, Kingsland, Trenton, and Memo back to Seguine before returning to Hylan.

S55 to Rossville: turn left at Seguine instead of right, then back north along Seguine.

S55 to SI Mall: continue on Seguine before going east on Hylan.

One new stop would be established: at the hospital's front door (parking space loss would be negligible as most parking is at adjacent car parks). To that end, however, I would also propose cutting S78 evening service to Tottenville (after 7 PM) and weekend service (except 10 AM to 6 PM) to hourly, with other trips ending at SI University Hospital South. I would also have to seriously ask if at this time, the S74 warrants a restructuring west of Rossville.

Edited by aemoreira81

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1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

 I would also have to seriously ask if at this time, the S74 warrants a restructuring west of Rossville.

The S74 warrants a split at ETC.

  • Upvote 2

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My redesign proposal:

Bus-train-bus transfer (like most other transit systems in the US) for SI-originating/terminating trips only, and a general rule:

Buses that cross the SIR but head North or South are split and become SIR feeders. 

Say Grasmere becomes a Transfer Center (all here originate from St George):

S51 - parallels SIR to Clifton; terminates at Battery & Lily Pond; rest of route replaces with a new one that terms at 86th St (R).

S52 - runs down Hylan and Cebra to Grasmere; rest of route replaced by route between SIUH and Clifton - overlapping on Tompkins until Vanderbilt

S74 - term at Grasmere or Old Town; replacement route runs from 86th St (R) to current S74 terminal 

S76 - stop at Grasmere;  run current S52 route from Clove Rd to SIUH; rest of route runs from Grasmere to current S76 terminal

S78 - term at Grasmere; rest of route replaced by service running from 86th St (R) to current terminal

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50 minutes ago, Deucey said:

My redesign proposal:

Bus-train-bus transfer (like most other transit systems in the US) for SI-originating/terminating trips only, and a general rule:

Buses that cross the SIR but head North or South are split and become SIR feeders. 

Say Grasmere becomes a Transfer Center (all here originate from St George):

S51 - parallels SIR to Clifton; terminates at Battery & Lily Pond; rest of route replaces with a new one that terms at 86th St (R).

S52 - runs down Hylan and Cebra to Grasmere; rest of route replaced by route between SIUH and Clifton - overlapping on Tompkins until Vanderbilt

S74 - term at Grasmere or Old Town; replacement route runs from 86th St (R) to current S74 terminal 

S76 - stop at Grasmere;  run current S52 route from Clove Rd to SIUH; rest of route runs from Grasmere to current S76 terminal

S78 - term at Grasmere; rest of route replaced by service running from 86th St (R) to current terminal

Why I disagree with that is that:

What serves Father Capodanno and Midland Beach local traffic that goes anywhere useful? Also, only St. George, Dongan Hills, Great Kills, Arthur Kill, and Tottenville are wheelchair accessible, and in an odd twist, bus service is what killed much of the Staten Island Railway's ridership postwar, causing the discontinuation of service to South Beach and the North Shore line.

Also, crosstown does not really work in Staten Island; the major ridership generators in Staten Island are St. George Ferry Terminal, West Shore Plaza, Staten Island Mall, Eltingville Transit Center, and the College of Staten Island...an example of the last one is: without CSI, the S66 would likely still be a 24/7 route as it was before CSI moved from where Petrides K-12 is now (in Sunnyside) to the site of the former Willowbrook State School, and the S62 would be a shuttle. The only reason why the S57 is daily service (it has the lowest ridership citywide of any 7-day route) is to serve Seaview Hospital.

There is a reason why transit is heavily concentrated along the older northern part of Staten Island and Hylan Boulevard (Southfield Avenue) corridors. I really would like to see an old B&O Staten Island timetable.

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17 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

...Also, only St. George, Dongan Hills, Great Kills, Arthur Kill, and Tottenville are wheelchair accessible...

Easier to make SIR past CLIFTON ADA-compliant than the subway - Space is there, and no fare control. Along with that, since Bay St is already overserved, diverting South Shore to Bk can reduce traffic on the VZ - better air for SI and Bk since instead of having diesels stuck in traffic trying to get to the ferry and making people late, they’re routed to the subway (which benefits Bay Ridge since (MTA) would have to boost (R)/4th Av service - which could reduce traffic on the BQE).

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2 hours ago, Deucey said:

My redesign proposal:

Bus-train-bus transfer (like most other transit systems in the US) for SI-originating/terminating trips only, and a general rule:

Buses that cross the SIR but head North or South are split and become SIR feeders. 

Say Grasmere becomes a Transfer Center (all here originate from St George):

S51 - parallels SIR to Clifton; terminates at Battery & Lily Pond; rest of route replaces with a new one that terms at 86th St (R).

S52 - runs down Hylan and Cebra to Grasmere; rest of route replaced by route between SIUH and Clifton - overlapping on Tompkins until Vanderbilt

S74 - term at Grasmere or Old Town; replacement route runs from 86th St (R) to current S74 terminal 

S76 - stop at Grasmere;  run current S52 route from Clove Rd to SIUH; rest of route runs from Grasmere to current S76 terminal

S78 - term at Grasmere; rest of route replaced by service running from 86th St (R) to current terminal

You can't treat the SIR like a subway line. In addition to requiring an extra transfer (to the slow, infrequent ferry) to reach Manhattan, it only runs every 30 minutes for most of the day. Deep on the South Shore (past Eltingville, maybe even past New Dorp depending on how you want to look at it) then sure, you might actually see some time savings by switching to the SIR. Between New Dorp & Grasmere, if you wanted to take the SIR you would most likely just walk to it (though I can agree to, for example, extending the S52 to Dongan Hills to provide a better connection with the SIR and Hylan Blvd/Richmond Road buses). 

In any case, the general problem with that type of structure is that, while myself and a lot of other Staten Islanders prefer the (R) over the ferry, the traffic heading over the Verrazanno-Narrows Bridge is too heavy/unreliable in the morning (especially during the school year). 

And Clove Road at the Grasmere SIR station is a little 2 lane road (buses block the entire side of the road when servicing that bus stop, and often cars end up going into oncoming traffic to bypass them). You're definitely not building any type of bus terminal at Grasmere.

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

What serves Father Capodanno and Midland Beach local traffic that goes anywhere useful? 

Bay Ridge is a pretty useful destination if you ask me.

1 hour ago, aemoreira81 said:

Also, crosstown does not really work in Staten Island; the major ridership generators in Staten Island are St. George Ferry Terminal, West Shore Plaza, Staten Island Mall, Eltingville Transit Center, and the College of Staten Island...

Please, you must be joking. If you consider the West Shore Plaza to be a major ridership generator, then you might as well start listing every single little shopping plaza in the whole island as a "major" ridership generator. You could've listed anything besides that...Bricktown/South Shore Commons....the New Dorp and Port Richmond commercial districts, anything except that sad excuse of a strip mall.

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Easier to make SIR past CLIFTON ADA-compliant than the subway - Space is there, and no fare control. Along with that, since Bay St is already overserved, diverting South Shore to Bk can reduce traffic on the VZ - better air for SI and Bk since instead of having diesels stuck in traffic trying to get to the ferry and making people late, they’re routed to the subway (which benefits Bay Ridge since (MTA) would have to boost (R)/4th Av service - which could reduce traffic on the BQE).

Again, you need to give them some sort of reliable priority to get them through the traffic on the bridge and at the 92nd Street exit.

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On 8/15/2019 at 12:17 AM, Lil 57 said:

After some consideration, I’ve made quite a bit of edits to my redesign proposal, here are the main edits.

Map
Service Guide

S52: Straightened out to run straight down Sand Lane instead of meandering through South Beach. The S58 covers McClean Ave.

S53/83 LTD: The S53 operates straight down the Narrows Road like the S83 LTD. The S58 covers south beach. The S83 LTD operates peak hours only due to this change. (The S53 is pretty quick off-peak and the frequency is too low off-peak to warrant a limited stop route without having long headways on the S53 and S83 LTD.)

S54: Rerouted to go straight down Amboy Road from Clarke Ave to Nelson Ave instead of meandering around Richmondtown. The S73 covers Giffords Lane.

S58 (New Route): The S58 is a new route that operates from Bay Ridge to the West Shore Plaza via South Beach (Replacing the S53 and allowing the S52 to be straightened there), and via Gannon Ave/Victory Blvd. On Weekdays, some S58 trips would terminate at the Teleport instead of the West Shore Plaza. Runs 7 days a week.

S72: Replaces the S73 south of the Bricktown Mall and is extended to Tottenville as a result.

S73: Southern terminal moved to the Bricktown Mall and service to Tottenville is replaced by the S72. Northern terminal moved to the Great Kills SIR Station via Giffords lane to give Great Kills 7 day service.

S74: Overnight terminal moved to the Bricktown Mall instead of Tottenville.

S78: Huguenot Ave service is reduced to weekdays only, all other times (minus overnights) the S78 terminates at Hylan Blvd/Richmond Ave.

Notes:

The S54 isn’t as necessary due to the S73 and the S42 covering up most of it's old (today's) routing. However, it would be nice to have coverage for the Todt Hill area since that area is very hilly and is far away from any bus routes.

The S59 could have short turns from the ferry to Yukon Ave since the S59 carries light south of Yukon Ave.

I’m wondering if the S72 should have hourly weekend service. It would only require one bus and a few drivers due to the short trip time (reliefs could be done at the Chaleston Depot). But would there be any demand for 7-day service to the more industrial part of Arthur Kill Road?   

S40/90: is the 30 minute frequency for each branch (15 on the combined sector)? Even though Richmond Terrace is mostly industrial, that route does carry a fair amount of traffic, especially to Mariners' Harbor, as an alternative to the much slower S46. I would actually propose splitting the service:

1. Matrix Park (some trips serving The Teleport before Matrix Park), numbered S40. These trips would also serve Arlington via Holland Avenue and Arlington Place.

2. Broad Street-Elizabeth NJT, numbered S41.

S42: I actually like this plan as it makes the route useful, it brings people to where they want, it would also provide adequate local bus service to the Todt Hill Houses, and it means that Seaview Hospital is served with a route that's not just network coverage.

S44: a bit torn with this one, but I'm somewhat okay with this as it provides a daily connection with HBLR...BUT you have the problem of needing a route serving Castleton and further east that runs to the Staten Island Mall. I would leave this alone.

S46: I would terminate this route at Goethals Homes (Goethals Road before Western Avenue). With your S40 proposal, and how I propose rerouting the S40 down South Avenue all the way, you need something serving that. I would have that served every 30 minutes weekdays and hourly on weekends, with all other trips terminating at Forest and South. The S40 would replace it to West Shore Plaza and The Teleport, as the S46's market is the dense residential areas in West New Brighton, Elm Park, and Mariners' Harbor. In running time, the S46 is blocked for nearly 15 minutes more than the S40 between St. George and Mariners' Harbor. I'm actually surprised you chose to leave this as it is.

S48: local route works, but the route to The Mills at Jersey Gardens does not with the speed cap on the local bus fleet, unless contracted. That would have to be a premium express bus service that also serves EWR, and that should likely start at Eltingville Transit Center instead. (I also object to the S98 for the same reason.) Additionally, to Jersey Gardens and EWR, hourly service would work with a long span of service. I would leave this as is, maybe even rerouting it to West Shore and Matrix Park along with the S40.

S51/81: agree with leaving as is.

S52: that plan can work if you reroute the S53.

S53/83/93: disagree on the S53 local routing in your proposal. With the Department of Labor no longer present by Hylan and Clove, I would instead reroute the S53 near its current routing, but to serve the South Beach Houses. Instead of turning onto Sand Lane, I'd have the local S53 continue along McClean (becoming Reid) and then turning back to Clove Road.

As for rush hour S83 service, I would propose that while it runs to Port Richmond, local service starts and ends at the Staten Island Zoo. As for the S93, it badly needs Saturday service, but not Sunday service, from about 7 AM to 5 PM, along with two extra trips on weeknights departing CSI at 9:52 PM and 10:08 PM (returning to Staten Island as S53 buses) to accommodate the late evening classes ending around 9:55 PM. Also, your proposed service plan is actually less frequent than the current S93 weekday plan (where buses are scheduled at no worse than 12 minute headways).

S54: I don't see any reason why it should exist in this form. Todt Hill, with a median income of $120,000, does not need a bus route, and before there, it's too close to the S42 route you propose, which is actually useful, without even coming close to Petrides. I'd actually reroute something else for your Amboy Road service.

S55: Good idea, but also requires the MTA to reconsider its 40/45 mph local bus speed cap, or that will not be fast enough on the Outerbridge Crossing, especially on the return trip, unless service is contracted.  I also would say that only weekday service is needed, as the connecting opportunities are not nearly as good as in Elizabeth. The only buses that serves Perth Amboy on Sundays as it is are the 116 to Port Authority and the 815 from New Brunswick to Woodbridge Center (weekday service is on the 48, 116, 813, 815, and 817).

S56: No bus can enter CSI from the Forest Hill Road gate...it's way too tight a turn. I would leave this as is, as weekday-only network coverage, but also serving Staten Island University Hospital South (SIUHS).

S57: With your S42 proposal being very adequate, this probably should be reduced to weekdays only, 6 AM to 9 PM (Port Richmond departure)...with no weekend service (the S42 providing coverage).

S58: I would not implement this. Service to South Beach can be handled by a rerouted S53, and Petrides can be served (via Renwick and Little Clove) by a restructured S66. That route is like a jack of all trades, but a master of none. (This route is also out of violation with the numbering scheme as S5x is north-south crosstown.)

S59/S89: Restructure so that the S59 ends at all times at the end of Richmond Avenue. S89 should instead be SI University Hospital South to 8th Street HBLR, full-time...you only need to get the bus to the HBLR. New stops on the S89 at Richmond and Signs, and Hylan and Arden, Huguenot, Luten, Seguine, and SIUHS.

S61/91: agree with leaving as is.

S62/92: agree with leaving as is mostly, but some weekday trips should go to The Teleport as was once the case.

S66/7: I would have this as one uniform route, except through Graniteville and Bulls Head (S66A via Graniteville and S66B via Bulls Head). Both should operate via Petrides and all of Howard. The S66A would end in Graniteville at the Regal Cinemas, and the S66B would end in Travis, operating in Bulls Head via Arlene Street and Signs Road. I would propose this for daily on the S66A and weekdays only for the S66B.

Your plans in the South Shore are a mess though. I would instead propose this instead:

S73 (weekdays and Saturdays only): from New Dorp (where the S57 terminates) via Amboy Road to Great Kills, then via Giffords Lane to Arthur Kill, then Arthur Kill (and ETC) to Rossville Avenue, serving Rossville and then the sparse remainder of Arthur Kill to Bricktown Mall.

S74 (full-time): Regular to Woodrow Road, then via Woodrow Road, Rossville Avenue, Correll Avenue, Bloomingdale Road, Sharrotts Road, and Veterans Road West, via Bricktown Mall, to Tottenville.

As for the S78, I'd operate it with 3 branches:

S75: to Arden Heights via Huguenot Avenue: weekdays only (service span may be too long)

S78 short-turn ending at SIUHS: all times, no worse than 30 minute headways

S78 to Bricktown Mall: full route, but not all times...with 60-minute headways on weekends and 30 on weekdays (that area is a lot of nothing between Prince's Bay and Tottenville).

Any trips to New Jersey, except for the S89, should be contracted, with a top-up order of LFS or XD40 buses leased to the contractor (preferably a New Jersey-based contractor, hopefully Academy) rather than by the MTA itself, as these buses need to be wide-open.

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On 8/28/2019 at 11:54 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As I said before local buses are different. Hourly express bus service is one thing. Hourly local bus service is another.  Doesn't make any sense to run a local bus once an hour.  Even overnight it's no good. Waits are simply too long...

12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Remember, Staten Island only has a population of about 0.48 million...in a city of 8.55 million. I know it's unpopular to say, but there are some parts of Staten Island on the South Shore where local bus service every hour would not be overkill.

On 8/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

Honestly I think the ridership is there for 30 minute headways given the density of those areas. But I agree 60 minute headways is better than nothing.

I think it all comes down to demand, i just don't want to see buses at 9 PM at night on a weekend with only a few riders on board and the trip gets cut due to low ridership. If more people ride on the S54/72 during weekday evenings and the S55/56/57 during weekend evenings, more service can be added.

On 8/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

And I agree with having the PM SIR express trains stop at New Dorp (not sure if I mentioned this but I also believe the locals that start/end at Great Kills should be extended to Eltingville for the bus connections

100% agree, makes no sense for New Dorp riders having a nonstop ride to the Ferry in the AM and being forced to a local in the PM. I believe the reason why local trains end at Great Kills in the PM is because there is a siding a bit south of the station that is used to reverse trains to dehead back to the Ferry. However, they do reverse trains south of the Huguenot station in the AM rush for the locals that start there so extending the Great Kills trains to Huguenot during rush hours isn't a bad idea.

12 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

To that end, one proposal I would make is:

S55. S59 and S78 provide direct service to Staten Island University Hospital South (on Seguine Avenue), via a loop.

S59 and S78, both directions: turn off at Seguine, loop around via Seguine, Kingsland, Trenton, and Memo back to Seguine before returning to Hylan.

S55 to Rossville: turn left at Seguine instead of right, then back north along Seguine.

S55 to SI Mall: continue on Seguine before going east on Hylan.

One new stop would be established: at the hospital's front door (parking space loss would be negligible as most parking is at adjacent car parks). To that end, however, I would also propose cutting S78 evening service to Tottenville (after 7 PM) and weekend service (except 10 AM to 6 PM) to hourly, with other trips ending at SI University Hospital South. I would also have to seriously ask if at this time, the S74 warrants a restructuring west of Rossville.

Having all of those Hylan routes make a loop to serve Staten Island University Hospital South is unnecessary. The buses already stop a block away from the hospital (2-3 min walk). This isn't like Seaview Hospital which is a long walk from the main gate and located in the middle of the woods.

And cutting the service span along Hylan isn't a good idea, it can be over a 30 minute walk to the nearest SIR station, most which aren't ADA accessible and people in that area should have service 24/7 for coverage. Yes, I do believe that the frequency of buses south of Richmond Ave could be reduced during the week but leaving people with no transit after 7 PM (6 PM on Weekends) is a big no-no.

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The S74 warrants a split at ETC.

Agreed.

 

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3 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

S40/90: is the 30 minute frequency for each branch (15 on the combined sector)? Even though Richmond Terrace is mostly industrial, that route does carry a fair amount of traffic, especially to Mariners' Harbor, as an alternative to the much slower S46. I would actually propose splitting the service:

1. Matrix Park (some trips serving The Teleport before Matrix Park), numbered S40. These trips would also serve Arlington via Holland Avenue and Arlington Place.

2. Broad Street-Elizabeth NJT, numbered S41.

Yes, the 30 minute headways are for each branch.

3 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

S44: a bit torn with this one, but I'm somewhat okay with this as it provides a daily connection with HBLR...BUT you have the problem of needing a route serving Castleton and further east that runs to the Staten Island Mall. I would leave this alone.

Remember that the S42 terminates at the SI mall, so riders on the NE part of the island will still have a direct trip to the SI mall.

5 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

S46: I would terminate this route at Goethals Homes (Goethals Road before Western Avenue). With your S40 proposal, and how I propose rerouting the S40 down South Avenue all the way, you need something serving that. I would have that served every 30 minutes weekdays and hourly on weekends, with all other trips terminating at Forest and South. The S40 would replace it to West Shore Plaza and The Teleport, as the S46's market is the dense residential areas in West New Brighton, Elm Park, and Mariners' Harbor. In running time, the S46 is blocked for nearly 15 minutes more than the S40 between St. George and Mariners' Harbor. I'm actually surprised you chose to leave this as it is.

In your scenario, the S46 would have to continue to Matrix Park, might seem like a good idea.

7 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

S48: local route works, but the route to The Mills at Jersey Gardens does not with the speed cap on the local bus fleet, unless contracted. That would have to be a premium express bus service that also serves EWR, and that should likely start at Eltingville Transit Center instead. (I also object to the S98 for the same reason.) Additionally, to Jersey Gardens and EWR, hourly service would work with a long span of service. I would leave this as is, maybe even rerouting it to West Shore and Matrix Park along with the S40.

The newer LFS buses are governed much faster than the older ones and the (MTA) is starting to govern it's local buses at higher speeds due to the slow speeds of the local buses being a hazard on the highway (think S89 in NJ or the Charleston buses that dehead to the Ferry using the WSE).

11 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

S53/83/93: disagree on the S53 local routing in your proposal. With the Department of Labor no longer present by Hylan and Clove, I would instead reroute the S53 near its current routing, but to serve the South Beach Houses. Instead of turning onto Sand Lane, I'd have the local S53 continue along McClean (becoming Reid) and then turning back to Clove Road.

As for rush hour S83 service, I would propose that while it runs to Port Richmond, local service starts and ends at the Staten Island Zoo. As for the S93, it badly needs Saturday service, but not Sunday service, from about 7 AM to 5 PM, along with two extra trips on weeknights departing CSI at 9:52 PM and 10:08 PM (returning to Staten Island as S53 buses) to accommodate the late evening classes ending around 9:55 PM. Also, your proposed service plan is actually less frequent than the current S93 weekday plan (where buses are scheduled at no worse than 12 minute headways).

The S58 would serve the South Beach houses. The S53 routing would be much quicker, speeding up bus service while kneeing connections and preventing to have the S83 run 7-days a week. The S93 has a lower evening frequency because the S83 is there to help too.

I'll talk about your other comments later, gotta get to bed.

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10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

You can't treat the SIR like a subway line.....

Upon reading the post (to myself), my exact words were "The SIR has to actually go somewhere outside of Staten Island for that to remotely have a chance"

Its like wanting to connect more buses in NJ to PATH stations, if PATH never crossed the Hudson into NY.....

10 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Please, you must be joking. If you consider the West Shore Plaza to be a major ridership generator, then you might as well start listing every single little shopping plaza in the whole island as a "major" ridership generator. You could've listed anything besides that...Bricktown/South Shore Commons....the New Dorp and Port Richmond commercial districts, anything except that sad excuse of a strip mall.

I find the asphalt company out there more interesting than West Shore Plaza....

Not even joking either (as I, admittedly, weirdly, like the smell of fresh asphalt)... Best field trip I've ever went on as a kid AFAIC.

10 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

I think it all comes down to demand, i just don't want to see buses at 9 PM at night on a weekend with only a few riders on board and the trip gets cut due to low ridership. If more people ride on the S54/72 during weekday evenings and the S55/56/57 during weekend evenings, more service can be added.

What makes you think a little thing called ridership won't deter the MTA from making cuts? (I'd laugh if it weren't an embarrassing actuality)

Former B71 & x29 riders know all about this; ridership increases around the time the thing got cut, and neither route ceases to exist.

I say that to say, you gotta get off this hourly local bus bit... VG8 is right, you're not getting much of anyone to wait for an hourly local bus... People are bitching about 15-20 minute wait for buses, having hourly routes just to have them around isn't exactly the answer here.... Even the MTA knows that - which is why you have these 1/2 hourly routes they're coming out with....

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20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

And Clove Road at the Grasmere SIR station is a little 2 lane road (buses block the entire side of the road when servicing that bus stop, and often cars end up going into oncoming traffic to bypass them). You're definitely not building any type of bus terminal at Grasmere.

I know the frontage roads at New Dorp can take all the buses, but it’s far enough down that any real changes - my plan included - makes it not worth happening since the time savings go away.

 

20 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Again, you need to give them some sort of reliable priority to get them through the traffic on the bridge and at the 92nd Street exit.

I’ve only driven it twice - there isn’t already a bus lane on the lower level for the SIMs to Bk and FiDi?

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12 hours ago, Deucey said:

I’ve only driven it twice - there isn’t already a bus lane on the lower level for the SIMs to Bk and FiDi?

It's all the way to the left so local buses can't use it and cross over in time to reach the 92nd Street exit. Also as mentioned that exit itself is a bottleneck

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I've changed some things up:

Map

Service Guide

S40/S46/S96 LTD: The S40 Matrix Park branch and the S46/96 has swapped. The S40 goes to West Shore Plaza, with making a loop around the Teleport on weekdays and the S46/96 now go to Matrix Park. This is to improve reliability on the S46/96 (due to the shorter route length) and provide more frequent service to Matrix Park. The S40/90 Elizabeth branch stays the same.

S51/81 LTD: S81 limited stop service added during the AM rush.

S54: Eliminated. The S42 and S73 cover up most of the old S54 routing and low ridership predictions if the S54 went via Todt Hill. Resources can be used elsewhere.

S57: Span Shortened due to the S42 also covering Seaview hospital and bringing riders to places where there are more demand from Seaview (St. George and the SI Mall). See the service guide for the new span of service.

S59: During the day, every other bus terminates at Richmond Ave/Yukon Ave. Service south of Yukon Ave operates half as frequent due to lower ridership levels of the S59 south of the SI Mall.

S73: Route extended to Hylan Blvd/Nelson Ave due to the elimination of the S54.

S74/S78: The southbound terminal overnight has been moved to Tottenville (current S72 terminal) instead of the Bricktown Mall.

Spans and frequencies of some other routes have been modified as well. Check the service guide for full details. 

Also hourly service has been eliminated on most routes and replaced with 30 minute headways (with small modifications to the span of service). The only routes to operate on headways over 30 minutes are the...

- Branches of the S40 and S51 which has some times when each branch operates every 40-60 minutes. (Combined service is twice that).

- The S89 LTD operates every 45 minutes during midday hours.

 

Edited by Lil 57

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S51:  Current ridership and headways aren’t enough to warrant AM-S81 service. You don’t want people waiting 15-20 minutes at local stops.

S59: You’re underestimating ridership south of the mall. While it isn’t sky-high, buses don’t exactly carry air as I’ve seen northbound S59s with a fully seated load pulling into ETC. Remember, there are people going past the mall in both directions.

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On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S55: Good idea, but also requires the MTA to reconsider its 40/45 mph local bus speed cap, or that will not be fast enough on the Outerbridge Crossing, especially on the return trip, unless service is contracted.  I also would say that only weekday service is needed, as the connecting opportunities are not nearly as good as in Elizabeth. The only buses that serves Perth Amboy on Sundays as it is are the 116 to Port Authority and the 815 from New Brunswick to Woodbridge Center (weekday service is on the 48, 116, 813, 815, and 817).

Today, if you wanted to go from the South Shore to Perth Amboy via. public transportation, you have to go all the way to Manhattan and transfer to NJT. Having the S55 run 7-days a week provides a quick, reasonable way to get across the bridge without having to drive or go out of your way to get there.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S56: No bus can enter CSI from the Forest Hill Road gate...it's way too tight a turn. I would leave this as is, as weekday-only network coverage, but also serving Staten Island University Hospital South (SIUHS).

I'm still thinking if the S72 and S78 (Arden Heights Branch) should run on weekends and have the S56 be weekday-only. The only thing is it would be more expensive to do the first option due to having one more route operating on the South Shore on weekends.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S57: With your S42 proposal being very adequate, this probably should be reduced to weekdays only, 6 AM to 9 PM (Port Richmond departure)...with no weekend service (the S42 providing coverage).

I would agree with reducing the span but to still have the route run 7 days a week. One of the reasons why the S57 and S66 were switched is to give Ave back their weekend service. On weekends, you could have the S57 run from 7 AM-9 PM on Saturdays and 8 AM-8 PM on Sundays.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S58: I would not implement this. Service to South Beach can be handled by a rerouted S53, and Petrides can be served (via Renwick and Little Clove) by a restructured S66. That route is like a jack of all trades, but a master of none. (This route is also out of violation with the numbering scheme as S5x is north-south crosstown.)

Remember, the S58 serves the Teleport and the West Shore Plaza, giving people a more direct trip from the mid-island area to the Teleport and the West Shore Plaza. Also, with that last statement, the S55, S56, S76 ans somewhat the S79 SBS also violate the numbering scheme.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S59/S89: Restructure so that the S59 ends at all times at the end of Richmond Avenue. S89 should instead be SI University Hospital South to 8th Street HBLR, full-time...you only need to get the bus to the HBLR. New stops on the S89 at Richmond and Signs, and Hylan and Arden, Huguenot, Luten, Seguine, and SIUHS.

The S59 will end at all times at Hylan/Richmond. The S89 is supposed to be a commuter-limited and extending the southern terminal would make it too long. I can see the S89 getting good ridership going to Jersey City. Gives people a direct ride instead of making an non-free transfer to the HBLR.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S62/92: agree with leaving as is mostly, but some weekday trips should go to The Teleport as was once the case.

See S58.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

S66/7: I would have this as one uniform route, except through Graniteville and Bulls Head (S66A via Graniteville and S66B via Bulls Head). Both should operate via Petrides and all of Howard. The S66A would end in Graniteville at the Regal Cinemas, and the S66B would end in Travis, operating in Bulls Head via Arlene Street and Signs Road. I would propose this for daily on the S66A and weekdays only for the S66B.

I think Petrides only needs School Trippers for the S66 since it would be too meandrous to reroute a bus to serve a school 7 days a week. The S67 is a variant of the S66 that skips Grymes Hill for a faster trip during peak hours. Also Arlene Street and Signs Road are close to Richmond Ave and Victory Blvd and people could make a transfer if they wanted to and the S58 is nearby as well.

On 8/30/2019 at 12:07 AM, aemoreira81 said:

Your plans in the South Shore are a mess though. I would instead propose this instead:

S73 (weekdays and Saturdays only): from New Dorp (where the S57 terminates) via Amboy Road to Great Kills, then via Giffords Lane to Arthur Kill, then Arthur Kill (and ETC) to Rossville Avenue, serving Rossville and then the sparse remainder of Arthur Kill to Bricktown Mall.

S74 (full-time): Regular to Woodrow Road, then via Woodrow Road, Rossville Avenue, Correll Avenue, Bloomingdale Road, Sharrotts Road, and Veterans Road West, via Bricktown Mall, to Tottenville.

As for the S78, I'd operate it with 3 branches:

S75: to Arden Heights via Huguenot Avenue: weekdays only (service span may be too long)

S78 short-turn ending at SIUHS: all times, no worse than 30 minute headways

S78 to Bricktown Mall: full route, but not all times...with 60-minute headways on weekends and 30 on weekdays (that area is a lot of nothing between Prince's Bay and Tottenville).

Any trips to New Jersey, except for the S89, should be contracted, with a top-up order of LFS or XD40 buses leased to the contractor (preferably a New Jersey-based contractor, hopefully Academy) rather than by the MTA itself, as these buses need to be wide-open.

The S73 and S74 are too meandrous and the reason why the S73 was created is to split the S74 during the day to improve reliability.

For the S78, Hylan Blvd needs coverage (like I said before) and although there isn't a lot between Prince's Bay and Tottenville, people use it from Tottenville to get to the northern part of Hylan Blvd. You wouldn't cut the S57 to every hour south of Seaview because there's just woods between Seaview and New Dorp? Or the S42 south of Seaview because of just woods between Seaview and the SI Mall area?

3 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

S51:  Current ridership and headways aren’t enough to warrant AM-S81 service. You don’t want people waiting 15-20 minutes at local stops.

Headways were increased so that both the S51 and S81 operate every 15 minutes during the AM rush. Better than south of Sand LA. which is between Prince's Bay and Tottenville every 16-20 minutes during the AM rush.

3 hours ago, S78 via Hylan said:

S59: You’re underestimating ridership south of the mall. While it isn’t sky-high, buses don’t exactly carry air as I’ve seen northbound S59s with a fully seated load pulling into ETC. Remember, there are people going past the mall in both directions.

Service south of the SI Mall would see more service than today due to the S59 running more frequently. See service guide.

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10 hours ago, Lil 57 said:

Today, if you wanted to go from the South Shore to Perth Amboy via. public transportation, you have to go all the way to Manhattan and transfer to NJT. Having the S55 run 7-days a week provides a quick, reasonable way to get across the bridge without having to drive or go out of your way to get there.

That’s really how I’d redo SI buses - FT connections to Bayonne to the Walmart and to (NJT) stations near Linden and Perth Amboy. 

The fact it isn’t happening makes me wonder if PANYNJ are blocking it bc it could lower toll revenue, or if its (MTA) and (NJT) not playing nice.

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12 hours ago, Deucey said:

That’s really how I’d redo SI buses - FT connections to Bayonne to the Walmart and to (NJT) stations near Linden and Perth Amboy. 

The fact it isn’t happening makes me wonder if PANYNJ are blocking it bc it could lower toll revenue, or if its (MTA) and (NJT) not playing nice.

There are politics with most agencies.  That said, the (MTA) is looking to lower costs, not add to them by running buses into other states.  Additionally, I don't think too many Staten Island elected officials are pushing for such connections, not enough to get anything done anyway.  Staten Island is still very car centric, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

It's hilarious... Years ago when I was living there, I noticed I gained a few pounds, in part because I was getting in cars when I was on the island and not walking.  

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