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Staten Island Bus Proposal Thread 2012-2013


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On 3/9/2020 at 12:44 PM, JAzumah said:

All they have to do is run an hourly SIM8 via Newark Airport. Why is a massive study needed for that?

Studies allow sandbagging to wash their hands of it and say "we tried."

See: a single curved tunnel from the Queens Boulevard Line to the RBB allegedly costing about as much as the entire 7 Line extension

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By now, one has heard about the CUNY and SUNY situation. The S93 is one of two bus routes that pull into a college campus (the other is the Q27). However, the S93 exists almost exclusively to serve the College of Staten Island. With in-person classes virtually over for the spring semester (because of COVID-19), S93 buses would be basically carrying air. Would it be possible to reduce service this late in the game for the Spring 2020 schedule, with a pick likely ongoing at Castleton Depot to basically just every 30 minutes between 6 AM and 7 PM only (CSI departure; Bay Ridge departs 45 minutes later), with the last two S93 trips from Bay Ridge terminating at Jewett Avenue?

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48 minutes ago, aemoreira81 said:

However, the S93 exists almost exclusively to serve the College of Staten Island.

This is blatantly incorrect.

On 3/9/2020 at 7:41 PM, B35 via Church said:

The MTA brass needs a massive study to figure out how to tie their own shoelaces.

Anyway, anyone willing to pay express bus fares to ride from (anywhere in) Staten Island to EWR deserves to be taken for one....

While I agree that service to EWR should be via local bus, an express bus is still cheaper than a taxi (especially with that $15 toll that they will charge in both directions even though the toll is only eastbound)

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1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

While I agree that service to EWR should be via local bus, an express bus is still cheaper than a taxi (especially with that $15 toll that they will charge in both directions even though the toll is only eastbound)

I'd think you'd get the point. The comment was in regards to public transportation.

2 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

By now, one has heard about the CUNY and SUNY situation. The S93 is one of two bus routes that pull into a college campus (the other is the Q27). However, the S93 exists almost exclusively to serve the College of Staten Island. With in-person classes virtually over for the spring semester (because of COVID-19), S93 buses would be basically carrying air. Would it be possible to reduce service this late in the game for the Spring 2020 schedule, with a pick likely ongoing at Castleton Depot to basically just every 30 minutes between 6 AM and 7 PM only (CSI departure; Bay Ridge departs 45 minutes later), with the last two S93 trips from Bay Ridge terminating at Jewett Avenue?

Drop the whole "would it be possible" crap...

Just come out & profess that you believe S93 service should be cut, due to the mass hysteria surrounding this damn coronavirus.....

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5 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

By now, one has heard about the CUNY and SUNY situation. The S93 is one of two bus routes that pull into a college campus (the other is the Q27). However, the S93 exists almost exclusively to serve the College of Staten Island. With in-person classes virtually over for the spring semester (because of COVID-19), S93 buses would be basically carrying air. Would it be possible to reduce service this late in the game for the Spring 2020 schedule, with a pick likely ongoing at Castleton Depot to basically just every 30 minutes between 6 AM and 7 PM only (CSI departure; Bay Ridge departs 45 minutes later), with the last two S93 trips from Bay Ridge terminating at Jewett Avenue?

Because people totally don't use it for any other reason...

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18 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I'd think you'd get the point. The comment was in regards to public transportation.

I get that, but I'm saying it's still better than nothing. Right now we literally have no choice except to take a car-based form of transportation across the bridge (unless we use that long-delayed bike/ped path that finally opened:  http://statenislander.org/2020/03/04/new-twin-span-goethals-bridge-shared-use-pedestrian-and-bike-path-finally-opens/ ). 

Of course, at this point with the local redesign due to start in the Fall, hopefully that problem will be rectified soon. (So adding an express route as a stopgap solution might make things worse in the long run because the MTA would use that as an excuse to avoid adding a local route)

 

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I made a map of my proposed SI-NJ services:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kUSyeCGaOyw4tIjFKhRuR8FKXBqk2DK8&usp=sharing

5 routes:

  • S23
    • Perth Amboy (NJT) to Tottenville
    • Weekday-only
      • Weekends, take S24 to Prince's Bay, then (SIR)
    • Runs Nova LFS and Orion VII 3G
  • S24
    • Perth Amboy (NJT) to Eltingville Transit Ctr
    • Runs all times except late nights
    • Runs Nova LFS and Orion VII 3G
  • S25
    • EWR to Eltingville Transit Ctr
    • Runs all times (reduced service late nights)
    • Runs Nova LFS
  • S26
    • Rebadged S89, exact same as S89
  • S27

Thoughts?

Edited by Jova42R
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30 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I get that, but I'm saying it's still better than nothing. Right now we literally have no choice except to take a car-based form of transportation across the bridge (unless we use that long-delayed bike/ped path that finally opened:  http://statenislander.org/2020/03/04/new-twin-span-goethals-bridge-shared-use-pedestrian-and-bike-path-finally-opens/ ). 

Of course, at this point with the local redesign due to start in the Fall, hopefully that problem will be rectified soon. (So adding an express route as a stopgap solution might make things worse in the long run because the MTA would use that as an excuse to avoid adding a local route)

I get what you're saying.... What I don't get is the making of a sticking point out of it to me - especially when you (also) concur that such a service should be operated as a local service.... It's obvious that there's currently no public transit service running between SI & EWR....

I'm only going to budge but so much on a particular stance, if it's one being made from a scarcity mindset (which seems to be the case here).... What I mean by that is, for example, I would rather have the S48 be diverted & extended to EWR (being that there's no current SI-EWR route) over having any express route catering to the market..... Not only do I see the latter as being tantamount to getting suckered out of $6.75 (in so many words), but I don't believe more people would even be apt to taking an express bus over a local bus to/from EWR.....

In other words, I'm not satisfied with any ole thing (well, within reason, for the sake of this discussion), just because we have nothing..... Now if I was on here saying that nothing whatsoever should be running between SI & EWR (esp. if there's latent demand for such a service), then the whole *it's better than nothing* bit would be more potent.... Otherwise, you can sit there & use that same defense for any foolish ass idea anyone conjures up, with the same objective of filling that void.....

Anyway, to add to your last statement there, not only would they pull on that as an excuse, I wouldn't put it past them to end up discontinuing said (hypothetical express) service in the process either....

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2 hours ago, Jova42R said:

Runs Nova LFS (can a Nova be on a highway that long @Lil 57@Deucey@checkmatechamp13?)

(MTA) drives buses on interstates to Pennsylvania for stuff. (NYCT) sent RTS buses to Atlanta via I-75 for the Olympics back in 1996, so there’s no reason it couldn’t be done.

2 hours ago, Jova42R said:

via the North Shore ROW from Nicholas Av to St George Terminal. (could this section be converted to a busway or not @Lil 57@Deucey@checkmatechamp13?)

https://www.silive.com/news/2019/10/north-shore-bus-rapid-transit-mta-outlines-proposed-project.html

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1 hour ago, Jova42R said:

I made a map of my proposed SI-NJ services:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kUSyeCGaOyw4tIjFKhRuR8FKXBqk2DK8&usp=sharing

5 routes:

  • S23
    • Perth Amboy (NJT) to Tottenville
    • Weekday-only
      • Weekends, take S24 to Prince's Bay, then (SIR)
    • Runs Nova LFS and Orion VII 3G
  • S24
    • Perth Amboy (NJT) to Eltingville Transit Ctr
    • Runs all times except late nights
    • Runs Nova LFS and Orion VII 3G
  • S25
    • EWR to Eltingville Transit Ctr
    • Runs all times (reduced service late nights)
    • Runs Nova LFS
  • S26
    • Rebadged S89, exact same as S89
  • S27

Thoughts?

Best route I'd say is that green route.... Worst route I'd say is that Plum-colored route (I simply don't see too many working class SI-ers being lured into heading up to Richmond Terrace to catch a bus to Jersey City - Exchange Place).... Those types are far more apt to taking one of the Lower Manhattan express bus routes to PATH to Exchange place.... I see off peak interstate usage on such a route being far too low to justify its existence

Gray route I have no particular opinion on.... Light-purple route is rather redundant to the black route (Tottenville does not warrant direct bus service to Perth Amboy, period)... Black route is more or less supplemental S55 service; you'll probably get some folks on it heading to/from Perth Amboy....

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25 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Best route I'd say is that green route

I thought that the S25 - Eltingville to EWR route would be better than Tottenville, so I agree that that is the most feasible

27 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Worst route I'd say is that Plum-colored route (I simply don't see too many working class SI-ers being lured into heading up to Richmond Terrace to catch a bus to Jersey City - Exchange Place).... Those types are far more apt to taking one of the Lower Manhattan express bus routes to PATH to Exchange place.... I see off peak interstate usage on such a route being far too low to justify its existence

The S27 is meant to be a connector for St. George. Would it be better to run the S27 St George to 34th, and the S26 Eltingville to Exchange?

29 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Gray route I have no particular opinion on.

It is just the current S89 - no changes except the SI routing

29 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Light-purple route is rather redundant to the black route (Tottenville does not warrant direct bus service to Perth Amboy, period)...

I thought that was the plan posted here earlier - that was the only reason I added it.

30 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Black route is more or less supplemental S55 service; you'll probably get some folks on it heading to/from Perth Amboy....

So you think it could work?

38 minutes ago, Deucey said:

(MTA) drives buses on interstates to Pennsylvania for stuff. (NYCT) sent RTS buses to Atlanta via I-75 for the Olympics back in 1996, so there’s no reason it couldn’t be done.

Ok, thanks!

38 minutes ago, Deucey said:

I know that they had a plan, my question was, could the entire line be converted?

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33 minutes ago, Jova42R said:
1 hour ago, Deucey said:

 

I know that they had a plan, my question was, could the entire line be converted

They started doing something to Gerardi’s Market, so if they get rid of the snow salt facility and that “dock” where they hide the SI ferry boat JFK when it breaks down for months, it’s possible.

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18 minutes ago, Jova42R said:

I thought that the S25 - Eltingville to EWR route would be better than Tottenville, so I agree that that is the most feasible

The S27 is meant to be a connector for St. George. Would it be better to run the S27 St George to 34th, and the S26 Eltingville to Exchange?

It is just the current S89 - no changes except the SI routing

I thought that was the plan posted here earlier - that was the only reason I added it.

So you think it could work?

1] Yeah, better chance at a ridership grab, for starters.....

2] If by "connector" you mean that this route would be a point to point route, it would be doomed from the start... To answer your question though, I don't think your "S27" should be a thing (regardless if it's a point to point route or a fixed-route service).... Furthermore, if there were to be a service running to Exchange Place from ETC, I would do with a truncated version of the real S89, instead of anything cutting through the back end of Heartland Village, etc.....

3] ...of which is very significant.

4] IDK if it is or isn't... All I'm saying is that there's no need for two local routes running over the Outerbridge to Perth Amboy..... I could see the MTA trying their hand at (some variant of) that purple route, but the black route would easily end up garnering more pax by default....

5] Seriously doubt it..... I don't think being supplemental to part of the S55 would be enough of a riderbase to keep a route of sorts afloat.....

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4 hours ago, Jova42R said:

I made a map of my proposed SI-NJ services:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kUSyeCGaOyw4tIjFKhRuR8FKXBqk2DK8&usp=sharing

5 routes:

  • S23
    • Perth Amboy (NJT) to Tottenville
    • Weekday-only
      • Weekends, take S24 to Prince's Bay, then (SIR)
    • Runs Nova LFS and Orion VII 3G
  • S24
    • Perth Amboy (NJT) to Eltingville Transit Ctr
    • Runs all times except late nights
    • Runs Nova LFS and Orion VII 3G
  • S25
    • EWR to Eltingville Transit Ctr
    • Runs all times (reduced service late nights)
    • Runs Nova LFS
  • S26
    • Rebadged S89, exact same as S89
  • S27

Thoughts?

I would only keep the S25 proposal, and have that as an express bus fare. Keep in mind that the LFS buses are capped at 40 mph as per MTA policy. That said, I can't see service being justified 24/7---maybe 4:30 AM to 11:30 AM (EWR departs 75 minutes later).

The S23 should be split in two...as I don't see a market from SI to just Perth Amboy. On the NJT end, the 813 and 817 don't run on Sundays, while the 48, 116, and 815 do). However, I do see a market to Metropark, which could be justified weekdays and Saturdays via the Amtrak and NJT rail connection, with a rush-hour extension into the business park, and to Raritan Center rush hours only. (This would be contracted with buses supplied by the MTA and leased to the contract winner, as I see it necessary to store buses in NJ.) Keep in mind that the SIM23 and SIM24 are currently dispatched out of Academy's Perth Amboy lot, shared with the NJ Transit Middlesex County local operation.

The S27, I would instead run St. George to downtown Elizabeth via Richmond Terrace, Port Richmond Avenue, Forest Avenue, Bayway Avenue, and Broad Street. This would be weekdays and Saturdays only.

Edited by aemoreira81
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3 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

The S23 should be split in two...as I don't see a market from SI to just Perth Amboy. On the NJT end, the 813 and 817 don't run on Sundays, while the 48, 116, and 815 do). However, I do see a market to Metropark, which could be justified weekdays and Saturdays via the Amtrak and NJT rail connection, with a rush-hour extension into the business park, and to Raritan Center rush hours only. (This would be contracted with buses supplied by the MTA and leased to the contract winner, as I see it necessary to store buses in NJ.) Keep in mind that the SIM23 and SIM24 are currently dispatched out of Academy's Perth Amboy lot, shared with the NJ Transit Middlesex County local operation.

You're right, but at the same time, I'd say the suggesting of running buses to Perth Amboy has less to do with addressing demand & more to do with making local bus service in the South Shore a little more attractive....

Yes there's a market for Metropark - however, it's too far flung to have some current (or some variant of) local bus service running all the way up there.... That, and good luck getting those currently driving out there up out of their cars to take a bus up there instead.... Starting up a new service to address that demand OTOH isn't really anymore worth it, than starting up a new service running to EWR (for example)..... At least with EWR (even if you don't want the airport itself), it could lead to xfers to places like Elizabeth & Newark.... Simply getting to the NEC/Amtrak from SI isn't enough of a draw....

Raritan Center? The subpar service out there is purely an NJT issue - with which the MTA has zero business remotely delving into.... You don't want MTA buses getting stuck on Raritan Ctr. Pkwy during peak times....

side note: Quite sure I said this rather recently on here, but Central Jersey's bus network is pure garbage.... To me, it's easily the worst of the 3 basic regions of the entire state....

Edited by B35 via Church
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The MTA deadheads tons of buses via the New Jersey Turnpike in both directions. It is trivial to run an SIM8 derivative via Newark Airport as a test case once an hour. It would cost the MTA around $250k to do it.

Metropark is the obvious target, but when I stopped by Middlesex Community College, I saw a bunch of NY plates there. Again, an hourly bus timed to SIR would need 1-2 buses for this route. You can use a CMAQ grant to offset the cost for the first 3 years.

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@Jova42R Long story short, that S39 has too much dead mileage through areas with little ridership potential.

I can possibly see a route running from say New Dorp to the Teleport via Rockland Avenue/Travis Avenue garnering some ridership as a crosstown route (maybe if it dipped down to the SI Mall that would help). But otherwise, I think those resources could be better used elsewhere.

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19 hours ago, JAzumah said:

The MTA deadheads tons of buses via the New Jersey Turnpike in both directions. It is trivial to run an SIM8 derivative via Newark Airport as a test case once an hour. It would cost the MTA around $250k to do it.

Nobody's denouncing the logistical feasibility of it...

You mention triviality... Well the difference between getting people to pay $6.50 for that service (compared to $2.75) simply isn't.

6 hours ago, Jova42R said:

S63: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AmzYGILOpzuvFebAxkBVHanMzjVR-EYL&usp=sharing

71 St (D) to West Shore Plaza

runs Nova LFS from Meredith Depot (buses transferred to Meredith)

Thoughts @B35 via Church @checkmatechamp13 @Deucey

Good idea for a Mid-Island tour bus.

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9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I was taking a look at the ridership numbers and noticed that the SIM9 has a little over 100 riders per day...can the SIM6 not become a midtown via downtown bus or anything of the sort?

The SIM9 did not run for most of 2018 (It started in October). Those numbers are the total ridership (for that year) divided by the number of days service ran on a weekday. They don't differentiate between routes which ran the whole year or not. We won't have accurate weekday statistics until whenever last year's ridership data is released.

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On 3/14/2020 at 9:32 AM, Lawrence St said:

I was taking a look at the ridership numbers and noticed that the SIM9 has a little over 100 riders per day...can the SIM6 not become a midtown via downtown bus or anything of the sort?

To get an idea you have to multiply the ridership by 4, since the SIM9 only ran for about 1/4 of the year. (Even then, it takes some time to get the word out). So we have to wait until the 2019 stats are out to really get a good idea of the actual ridership

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  • 1 month later...

Implementation of the S72/S82 bus service.

S72
Saint George <-> Arden Heights

S82 (Limited)
Saint George <-> Arden Heights


S72 would be a local bus route operating between St. George and Arden Heights. At this current time, Arden Heights is pretty under-served when it comes to local bus service (express bus presence is higher). Those who utilize local bus service, specifically to north-eastern parts of the island such as Grasmere, New Dorp, etc. would have to take the S56 and then transfer either to the S74 or S78. To solve this, it would be best to have a dedicated bus route running between Arden and St. George.

The S82 would be the limited bus counterpart of the S72, making only limited stops along the route. It would operate during AM and PM respective peak hours, operating at a 20-30 minute interval within those hours for St. George bound buses, 25-30 minute interval for Arden Height bound buses.

Here's the route that it would take: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1386RABCSDWilZQDsy86b8Cuulh5Q5yiA&usp=sharing

For further clarification, let's assume a St. George bound S72 has entered service.

It would begin at the intersection of Arthur Kill Rd and Arden Ave, running down Arden Ave until it reaches Amboy Road, where it turns left and runs down Amboy.

It would continue down Richmond Rd, where Amboy Road ends, and divert to Targee Street when Richmond Rd becomes one-way only.

When it reaches Narrows Rd North, it would turn left and briefly travel down that service road until it reaches Clove Road, turning onto Clove to then turn onto Howard Ave. It would cover the Grymes Hill neighborhood of the island to better local bus presence and give students of Wagner a more reliable bus service than simply the S66 (which does not run during weekends).

It would run the entirety of Howard Ave, turning left onto Louis Street then right onto Victory Blvd to continue to St. George where it would terminate.

This bus would utilize the LFS's from Yukon Depot, with additional LFS's from Charleston Depot to support both routes.

What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

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