Straphangers: Q line the best (surprise!), the C is the worst (again)

[Quill Depot]

I really hope whoever made the decision not to save any R38s (other than a pair for the Transit Museum) is not still working for Transit. That person's short-sightedness is coming back to haunt the MTA, who now barely has enough B-Division cars for service. It really would have been helpful to still have the 38s around given what happened with the R44s. Now that the 38s are gone, I hope Transit doesn't send the 42s off to scrap until the 179s get here. Not waiting for them could spell trouble down the road.

 

 

Yeah, I agree. But they did not know there were problem's with the R44. Transit could of kept some 38s. They gotta have yard space.

[CenSin]

I would have picked the as the best, having ridden the and . The arrives so frequently, I don't have to schedule to make sure I don't miss a train, and it's fast (and even faster when express). The only has the less-car-breakdowns and clear announcements going for it, and the real pain in the ass for me is what happens at DeKalb Avenue (waiting for the ), Prince Street (waiting for the ), and 34 Street–Herald Square (waiting for the or ).

[DJ MC]

How come there is always a large scale arugment that takes place with a thread that has to do with the R32s?

[TheSubwayStation]

How come there is always a large scale arugment that takes place with a thread that has to do with the R32s?

 

Because they're good cars with a ridiculous following among railfans, but they're getting old and unpopular among riders...

[TwoTimer]

because it is by far the most beloved and the most hated train run in revenue service at the moment.

[TheSubwayStation]

because it is by far the most beloved and the most hated train run in revenue service at the moment.

 

[Q10 Airport]

How come there is always a large scale arugment that takes place with a thread that has to do with the R32s?

 

 

Because they are beloved trains near the end of their lives. That's when people get split between the railfans who realize the significance of these trains and the regular day-to-day commuters who are sick trains breaking down. I'm sure causal riders who did not realize the significance of the Redbirds felt the same way about those trains in the years before they retired. The Strappies are clearly advocates for the day-to-day commuters and not railfans. That's why the is ranked last as the 32's near the end of their useful lives. That's why the got ranked last a couple of times by the Strappies as the Redbirds neared the end of their useful lives.

[Grand Concourse]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

 

The average riders don't know as much as the rail fans do. And as fanatic as railfans are, they are more informed about the trains on the system. If you asked a person would they want the R44 or the R32, they wouldn't know why the R44s had to be retired before the R32s.

 

So yes, customer concerns comes first, but the straphangers campaign is just an advocacy group and nothing more. If they had things their way, the MTA would have an unlimited budget to go spend on new trains and an army of workers to clean/repair everything to 'pristine' condition. But the reality is, the is a part time line and frankly, it is what it is. No other yards can either maintain* or want the R32s anymore, so it's left to Pitkin/207th to deal with them.

 

*as in why keep parts for a 3rd type of train like for JYD.

[Brighton Express]

I think the is the best, but I can't argue, the is the train that takes me home. About the being the worst, I can somewhat agree to that.

[SmallParkShuttle]

Interesting that the made best this year, though I really don't care about this report. I do agree with GC that this is an advocacy group that uses an interesting tactic to get their points across.

 

As far as the vs , I will say that I would point to the people who ride the train that makes the difference in the cleanliness of the trains. The is my line right now, and I'm not surprised it was ranked dirtier than the .

 

Also, for jimmy7, who wondered if Rockaway really needs "that much" service, I will tell you yes, and the need has greatly increased in the last few years. Stand at rockaway boulevard during the AM rush, and see for yourself. I've gotten on SRO trains at 67 St going to school at Brooklyn Tech, and that was almost 10 years ago. Rockaway has been seeing major development in the last 5 years, and population will only increase.

 

Vitauss, I will say that those who are able to take LIRR to the city from Rockaway do. And if I tried to from my house back then, it would take the same amount of time as the .

[DJ MC]

Because they're good cars with a ridiculous following among railfans, but they're getting old and unpopular among riders...

because it is by far the most beloved and the most hated train run in revenue service at the moment.

Because they are beloved trains near the end of their lives. That's when people get split between the railfans who realize the significance of these trains and the regular day-to-day commuters who are sick trains breaking down. I'm sure causal riders who did not realize the significance of the Redbirds felt the same way about those trains in the years before they retired. The Strappies are clearly advocates for the day-to-day commuters and not railfans. That's why the is ranked last as the 32's near the end of their useful lives. That's why the got ranked last a couple of times by the Strappies as the Redbirds neared the end of their useful lives.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

 

The average riders don't know as much as the rail fans do. And as fanatic as railfans are, they are more informed about the trains on the system. If you asked a person would they want the R44 or the R32, they wouldn't know why the R44s had to be retired before the R32s.

 

So yes, customer concerns comes first, but the straphangers campaign is just an advocacy group and nothing more. If they had things their way, the MTA would have an unlimited budget to go spend on new trains and an army of workers to clean/repair everything to 'pristine' condition. But the reality is, the is a part time line and frankly, it is what it is. No other yards can either maintain* or want the R32s anymore, so it's left to Pitkin/207th to deal with them.

 

*as in why keep parts for a 3rd type of train like for JYD.

 

 

Everything the four of you said made absoulte sense 110%.

[BrooklynIRT]

The reason why trains terminate at Utica/New Lots is because of capacity at Flatbush terminal, not Rogers Av Junction. The Rogers Av Junction sure causes delays, though.

 

I thought Rogers JCT was also a reason because of the 30 TPH rule

[Brighton Express]

Because they're good cars with a ridiculous following among railfans, but they're getting old and unpopular among riders...

 

 

People shouldn't give a damn. The only thing a new car brings is probably the look. It aint any bigger. It is just to take you to your stop. I like the R32. I also like the R160. I don't see why people think it is too old, the R160 to me looks like it has the same seat layout. Just get a seat. After all it is just a train. It aint for viewing pleasure. It's for the ride. I think those R32s could use another 5-10 years.

[R32 3838]

People shouldn't give a damn. The only thing a new car brings is probably the look. It aint any bigger. It is just to take you to your stop. I like the R32. I also like the R160. I don't see why people think it is too old, the R160 to me looks like it has the same seat layout. Just get a seat. After all it is just a train. It aint for viewing pleasure. It's for the ride. I think those R32s could use another 5-10 years.

 

At the way certain subway cars are going ( if you guys know what type) they might have no choice, but I agree a train is a train, Straphangers did this when the R26,28 and R29's were on the , always saying the is the worst line, people need to get it through their thick ass skills the R32's are not the only subway cars that have issues, the R46's have Major issues, the R142A's are having brake issues (the ones on the , the R62A's on the have A/C issues and you know whos the Blame for all of these issues JAY WALDER for cutting staff, now that they are gone things have gotten worse, i keep on telling people alot of people who worked on these subway cars had gotten layed off, so look at that before jumping at everyone's case about the 32's thats why people argue about it, because all the time people always gotta blame the old train, Atleast the Old Train had kicked the younger subway cars asses, all Budd Railcars had lasted well over 50 years of service, people may hate em, but they are strong subway cars, and what the MTA did was smart by keeping these instead of R44's that had Very Bad Frame issues, as railfans we like em, passengers hate but you know something who gives a shit, as long as the train comes and its running without issue, it should be fine and Be glad the R160's are new, because if they were 12 years old like R142's, than they would have the same issues as well

[TheSubwayStation]

At the way certain subway cars are going ( if you guys know what type) they might have no choice, but I agree a train is a train, Straphangers did this when the R26,28 and R29's were on the , always saying the is the worst line, people need to get it through their thick ass skills the R32's are not the only subway cars that have issues, the R46's have Major issues, the R142A's are having brake issues (the ones on the , the R62A's on the have A/C issues and you know whos the Blame for all of these issues JAY WALDER for cutting staff, now that they are gone things have gotten worse, i keep on telling people alot of people who worked on these subway cars had gotten layed off, so look at that before jumping at everyone's case about the 32's thats why people argue about it, because all the time people always gotta blame the old train, Atleast the Old Train had kicked the younger subway cars asses, all Budd Railcars had lasted well over 50 years of service, people may hate em, but they are strong subway cars, and what the MTA did was smart by keeping these instead of R44's that had Very Bad Frame issues, as railfans we like em, passengers hate but you know something who gives a shit, as long as the train comes and its running without issue, it should be fine

It's not like Straphangers.org is biased against older trains. Older trains have lower MDBFs, so Straphangers.org's reliability/breakdown data is accurate. I don't blame them for rating older trains worse; it's simply a fact that they are less reliable.

 

You're right, though, that any train is fine. Whether it's got a high or low MDBF, it'll still get you to your destination perfectly well.

[DJ MC]

Even when the R32s retire in 2017 whatever it is they retire they may not be gone for good. I will explain more about that on the chat later on today.

[R32 3838]

It's not like Straphangers.org is biased against older trains. Older trains have lower MDBFs, so Straphangers.org's reliability/breakdown data is accurate. I don't blame them for rating older trains worse; it's simply a fact that they are less reliable.

 

You're right, though, that any train is fine. Whether it's got a high or low MDBF, it'll still get you to your destination perfectly well.

 

like one person said that MDBF is not a proven fact and this came from a retierd Yard Superviosr, all yards are responsble for their equipment, and i have ridden the all year when it had R32's and the had way more equipment issues than the , last year the was sent pass Euclid ave much more than a normal reroute due to the having issues, and I witness this for myself, SMS doesn't work on subway cars at all, all it does is improove their mileage, so what straphangers does is kinda adding more to feul to the fire

[Brighton Express]

At the way certain subway cars are going ( if you guys know what type) they might have no choice, but I agree a train is a train, Straphangers did this when the R26,28 and R29's were on the , always saying the is the worst line, people need to get it through their thick ass skills the R32's are not the only subway cars that have issues, the R46's have Major issues, the R142A's are having brake issues (the ones on the , the R62A's on the have A/C issues and you know whos the Blame for all of these issues JAY WALDER for cutting staff, now that they are gone things have gotten worse, i keep on telling people alot of people who worked on these subway cars had gotten layed off, so look at that before jumping at everyone's case about the 32's thats why people argue about it, because all the time people always gotta blame the old train, Atleast the Old Train had kicked the younger subway cars asses, all Budd Railcars had lasted well over 50 years of service, people may hate em, but they are strong subway cars, and what the MTA did was smart by keeping these instead of R44's that had Very Bad Frame issues, as railfans we like em, passengers hate but you know something who gives a shit, as long as the train comes and its running without issue, it should be fine and Be glad the R160's are new, because if they were 12 years old like R142's, than they would have the same issues as well

 

Reached my quota for the day.

 

I see something in those R46s. And word about the R160s.

[R32 3838]

Even when the R32s retire in 2017 whatever it is they retire they may not be gone for good. I will explain more about that on the chat later on today.

 

yep took the words right out my mouth

 

Reached my quota for the day.

 

I see something in those R46s. And word about the R160s.

 

R160's are doing fine, the R46's from the and are not doing well at all, alot of people were talking about that yesterday

[DJ MC]

yep took the words right out my mouth

 

 

It's not only just Second Avenue Subway there is more to what happens afterward.

[TheSubwayStation]

like one person said that MDBF is not a proven fact and this came from a retierd Yard Superviosr, all yards are responsble for their equipment, and i have ridden the all year when it had R32's and the had way more equipment issues than the , last year the was sent pass Euclid ave much more than a normal reroute due to the having issues, and I witness this for myself, SMS doesn't work on subway cars at all, all it does is improove their mileage, so what straphangers does is kinda adding more to feul to the fire

 

The R32s and R46s are both older trains, so my point still remains valid. The was rated badly NOT just because of the R32s, but also because it runs so infrequently.

[RollOver]

Question: Is waiting ten minutes for the even that long? If so, why? I don't consider that being very infrequently since I take the to high school...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Question: Is waiting ten minutes for the even that long? If so, why? I don't consider that being very infrequently since I take the to high school...

 

 

IMO it is. It often doesn't come as scheduled so it's hit or miss with that train. I'm surprised the isn't high up there as well because despite having decent frequencies, it runs like crap. They need to do more to get these two lines on schedule better IMO.

[NX Express]

Yes - for a line that goes through Midtown and on weekends serves places like the AMNH alone, 10 minutes is quite a while.

[TheSubwayStation]

Question: Is waiting ten minutes for the even that long? If so, why? I don't consider that being very infrequently since I take the to high school...

 

It's not terrible, but longer than most lines. Remember, the Straphangers.org ratings are all about comparing subway lines to each other.

 

R32 3838 will make a big stink about the Straphangers.org ratings because he likes the R32s so much. I know that he won't listen, but I'll say this again: Straphangers.org comes up with their ratings based on DATA. R32 3838's statement that Straphangers.org is just trying to stir up political pressure (against the R32s) makes NO SENSE. Unless they completely falsified their reliability, cleanliness, and announcement data just to make the R32s seem bad, his argument is BS. The data doesn't have an agenda; it just exists.

 

Like I said, any train is fine but older trains are less reliable. And railfan speculation and observations are NOT necessarily accurate methods of determining the reliability of a type of train. I trust the Straphangers.org reliability data MUCH more than a railfan who says, "This type of train is ALWAYS breaking down! I know this because I ride it every day!"

 

I know that the R46s have been having problems now, but the Straphangers.org data shows that the R32s did worse during the time when the data was collected. Unless Straphangers.org falsified that data, there's no political agenda here. They're just coming up with honest ratings based on their data.

 

IMO it is. It often doesn't come as scheduled so it's hit or miss with that train. I'm surprised the isn't high up there as well because despite having decent frequencies, it runs like crap.

 

According to on-time performance data, the is actually quite good. The isn't very good, but isn't the worst in the system.

They need to do more to get these two lines on schedule better IMO.

 

I don't really see how that's possible. I'm not very familiar with dispatchers, so I don't know if they should be doing a better job or something. I do know, though, that longer routes (the is the longest in the system) have worse on-time performance. If you have suggestions for how to improve the (or the on-time performance of any line), it would make an interesting discussion.