qjtransitmaster Posted August 9, 2012 Share #51 Posted August 9, 2012 Not really sure. I was on the Manhattan bound train and we were transferring at the Huntington station. They could've been students from Stonybrook or (shoppers around Smithtown) and taking the train for the first time. I couldn't tell if they were intentionally trying to take it to use for the future or they just thought it was theirs to keep. The c/r basically said 'please leave the tab alone'. Nothing too threatening. They are mostly students not knowing the LIRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACEVE14 Posted August 9, 2012 Share #52 Posted August 9, 2012 The recent move by the MTA to announce running the X1 24/7 was a shock especially for me, who last year spoke at an MTA board meeting about the need to expand express bus service later at night for Staten Island residents, something that they clearly realized was a need as well. With that said, this IMO sets a new precedence for the role of express buses in communities across the 5 boroughs. I wonder if any other express bus lines could be candidates for 24/7 service in the future and if so which ones and why? Now that you mention it, I know a lot of express buses that needs service expansion for all weekday, all day, and all time service around the 5 boroughs. Here is my example: MTA NYCT Express: X1: 24/7 X2: 24/7! X3: All Weekday^ X4: All Day^ X5: 24/7! X6: All Weekday* X7: 24/7 X8: All Day^ X9: All Weekday X10: B (Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction!), C (24/7 except Weekday Rush Hour!) X11: Weekday and Saturday^ X12: 24/7 except Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction X13: All Weekday^* X14: 24/7 except All Weekday! (buses run non-stop to/from E 23rd St, other times via X13) X15: All Weekday^! X16: All Day^* X17: A^ (Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction^!), C (All Day^!), J (All Weekday^!) X18: All Weekday^* X19: All Weekday^! X20: All Weekday^* X22: All Weekday! X22A: Weekday Rush Hours! X23: All Day@! X24: All Day@! X25: All Weekday*! X27: A (All Day except Weekday Rush Hours), B (Weekday Rush Hours), C (discontinued) X28: A (All Day except Weekday Rush Hours), B (Weekday Rush Hours), C (discontinued) X29: All Weekday* X30: All Day! X31: All Weekday! X32: All Weekday*! (165th St Bus Terminal Branch only) X37: Weekday Rush Hours (both directions) X38: Weekday Rush Hours (both directions) X51: All Day*! X63: All Weekday! X64: All Weekday! X68: All Day! X90: All Weekday*! MTA Bus Express: BxM1: 24/7! BxM2: 24/7! BxM3: 24/7 BxM4: All Day BxM4A (new name BxM5): All Day* BxM4C: All Weekday@! BxM6: All Day^! BxM7: 24/7! BxM8: All Day! BxM9: All Day^! BxM10: 24/7! BxM11: 24/7! BxM18: All Weekday! BM1: 24/7 BM2: All Day^ BM3: 24/7 BM4: All Day BM5: 24/7 QM1: All Weekday! QM2: 24/7 QM3: All Day! QM4: All Day! QM5: 24/7! QM6: All Day! QM7: All Weekday! QM8: All Weekday! QM10: All Day! QM11: All Day! QM12: All Weekday! QM15: All Day^! QM16: All Day! QM17: 24/7! QM18: All Day! QM20: All Weekday! QM21: All Weekday! QM22: All Weekday*! QM23: All Weekday* QM24: All Weekday! QM25: All Weekday! ^ = express bus service extension, * = possible service restoration, @ = express bus line converted into MTA status, and ! = possible route change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share #53 Posted August 9, 2012 Now that you mention it, I know a lot of express buses that needs service expansion for all weekday, all day, and all time service around the 5 boroughs. Here is my example: MTA NYCT Express: X1: 24/7 X2: 24/7! X3: All Weekday^ X4: All Day^ X5: 24/7! X6: All Weekday* X7: 24/7 X8: All Day^ X9: All Weekday X10: B (Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction!), C (24/7 except Weekday Rush Hour!) X11: Weekday and Saturday^ X12: 24/7 except Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction X13: All Weekday^* X14: 24/7 except All Weekday! (buses run non-stop to/from E 23rd St, other times via X13) X15: All Weekday^! X16: All Day^* X17: A^ (Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction^!), C (All Day^!), J (All Weekday^!) X18: All Weekday^* X19: All Weekday^! X20: All Weekday^* X22: All Weekday! X22A: Weekday Rush Hours! X23: All Day@! X24: All Day@! X25: All Weekday*! X27: A (All Day except Weekday Rush Hours), B (Weekday Rush Hours), C (discontinued) X28: A (All Day except Weekday Rush Hours), B (Weekday Rush Hours), C (discontinued) X29: All Weekday* X30: All Day! X31: All Weekday! X32: All Weekday*! (165th St Bus Terminal Branch only) X51: All Day*! X63: All Weekday! X64: All Weekday! X68: All Day! X90: All Weekday^! MTA Bus Express: BxM1: 24/7! BxM2: 24/7! BxM3: 24/7 BxM4: All Day BxM4A (new name BxM5): All Day* BxM4C: All Weekday@! BxM6: All Day^! BxM7: 24/7! BxM8: All Day! BxM9: All Day^! BxM10: 24/7! BxM11: 24/7! BxM18: All Weekday! BM1: 24/7 BM2: All Day^ BM3: 24/7 BM4: All Day BM5: 24/7 QM1: All Weekday! QM2: 24/7 QM3: All Day! QM4: All Day! QM5: 24/7! QM6: All Day! QM7: All Weekday! QM8: All Weekday! QM10: All Day! QM11: All Day! QM12: All Weekday! QM15: All Day^! QM16: All Day! QM17: 24/7! QM18: All Day! QM20: All Weekday! QM21: All Weekday! QM22: All Weekday*! QM23: All Weekday* QM24: All Weekday! QM25: All Weekday! ^ = express bus service extension, * = possible service restoration, @ = express bus line converted into MTA status, and ! = possible route change LOL... I think that's a bit much... Hell some of these routes don't even exist anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 9, 2012 Share #54 Posted August 9, 2012 ACEEVE so wow you won the lottery? LOL. Seriously you giving the winners for these express bus expansion. Most of these dont need all of these expansions. The X2, etc. Now that you mention it, I know a lot of express buses that needs service expansion for all weekday, all day, and all time service around the 5 boroughs. Here is my example: MTA NYCT Express: X1: 24/7 X2: 24/7! X3: All Weekday^ X4: All Day^ X5: 24/7! X6: All Weekday* X7: 24/7 X8: All Day^ X9: All Weekday X10: B (Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction!), C (24/7 except Weekday Rush Hour!) X11: Weekday and Saturday^ X12: 24/7 except Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction X13: All Weekday^* X14: 24/7 except All Weekday! (buses run non-stop to/from E 23rd St, other times via X13) X15: All Weekday^! X16: All Day^* X17: A^ (Weekday Rush Hour Peak Direction^!), C (All Day^!), J (All Weekday^!) X18: All Weekday^* X19: All Weekday^! X20: All Weekday^* X22: All Weekday! X22A: Weekday Rush Hours! X23: All Day@! X24: All Day@! X25: All Weekday*! X27: A (All Day except Weekday Rush Hours), B (Weekday Rush Hours), C (discontinued) X28: A (All Day except Weekday Rush Hours), B (Weekday Rush Hours), C (discontinued) X29: All Weekday* X30: All Day! X31: All Weekday! X32: All Weekday*! (165th St Bus Terminal Branch only) X51: All Day*! X63: All Weekday! X64: All Weekday! X68: All Day! X90: All Weekday^! MTA Bus Express: BxM1: 24/7! BxM2: 24/7! BxM3: 24/7 BxM4: All Day BxM4A (new name BxM5): All Day* BxM4C: All Weekday@! BxM6: All Day^! BxM7: 24/7! BxM8: All Day! BxM9: All Day^! BxM10: 24/7! BxM11: 24/7! BxM18: All Weekday! BM1: 24/7 BM2: All Day^ BM3: 24/7 BM4: All Day BM5: 24/7 QM1: All Weekday! QM2: 24/7 QM3: All Day! QM4: All Day! QM5: 24/7! QM6: All Day! QM7: All Weekday! QM8: All Weekday! QM10: All Day! QM11: All Day! QM12: All Weekday! QM15: All Day^! QM16: All Day! QM17: 24/7! QM18: All Day! QM20: All Weekday! QM21: All Weekday! QM22: All Weekday*! QM23: All Weekday* QM24: All Weekday! QM25: All Weekday! ^ = express bus service extension, * = possible service restoration, @ = express bus line converted into MTA status, and ! = possible route change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted August 9, 2012 Share #55 Posted August 9, 2012 Going from a rush hour peak direction only route to 24/7 is a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 9, 2012 Share #56 Posted August 9, 2012 LOL... I think that's a bit much... Hell some of these routes don't even exist anymore. To be fair, he did say "Possible route restoration" for some of them. But yeah, that's waaaaaay too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 10, 2012 Share #57 Posted August 10, 2012 Nothing in that list means much of anything w/o at least an explanation why what's being suggested, is being suggested..... So he knows how to use the shift key & press 1, 2, 6, and 8..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted August 10, 2012 Share #58 Posted August 10, 2012 BxM7 can easily run 24/7 now since MTA Bus gets reimbursed 100% of all costs. Agree with that - but the MTA should have to run it by eliminating waste elsewhere---such as the off-peak runs from College Point that don't carry. This is where NYCT loading guidelines should be applied to MTA Bus. Off-peak express service should carry at least 30 passengers per trip off peak to even be worth it...under which many CP express routes (and possibly many SC routes) would not make the cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share #59 Posted August 10, 2012 Agree with that - but the MTA should have to run it by eliminating waste elsewhere---such as the off-peak runs from College Point that don't carry. This is where NYCT loading guidelines should be applied to MTA Bus. Off-peak express service should carry at least 30 passengers per trip off peak to even be worth it...under which many CP express routes (and possibly many SC routes) would not make the cut. So what you're saying is that communities without subway service should lose service is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 10, 2012 Share #60 Posted August 10, 2012 No, that's wrong. There's still the local bus to the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 10, 2012 Share #61 Posted August 10, 2012 Off-peak express service should carry at least 30 passengers per trip off peak to even be worth it...under which many CP express routes (and possibly many SC routes) would not make the cut. In other words, cut off peak express service.... Just come out & say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted August 10, 2012 Share #62 Posted August 10, 2012 The X2 can be weekdays only, as well as the X3 and X7 to Allieviate overcrowding, also the X5 and X9 can be potential candidates for all weekday service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share #63 Posted August 10, 2012 In other words, cut off peak express service.... Just come out & say it. The thing that I don't understand is with him is that does he not realize that ALL services have periods in which ridership is light? That goes for subways, buses, MetroNorth and the LIRR, not just express buses and sometimes yes they're more costly to run. That's part of running a transportation agency. You have to find a balance with this and try to provide some service where possible. Going by his proposal, he would leave people stranded by cutting services when ridership isn't high, which does nothing but deter ridership overall. For the people that use and needs services at times when ridership is light they are being told that they don't matter. Not everyone works 9-5 jobs. I myself was working overnight for a short period when I took a semester off to prepare for moving to Italy and it is not easy at all. In my case I had to spend my days running around to get paperwork and such completed at the Italian consulate and finalize things with my university and try to work when I could at night so that I had sufficient money while living overseas, since I could not work there at the time. While folks can accept less service, telling them that they don't need any service is basically saying that they don't matter because they're not part of the masses. @Adam... The MTA has stated that off peak ridership has steadily grown, which is part of the reason why they've been able to restore some services that were cut, so explain to me why you're so obsessed with cutting off peak services when ridership continues to grow? If you're only interested in cutting off peak express bus service then explain why that is because it seems to me that you continuously harp on how expensive express bus service is to run while ignoring how expensive it is to run the LIRR, MetroNorth and the other services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted August 10, 2012 Share #64 Posted August 10, 2012 Here's some statistics for Hylan Blvd bus service from 2011. X1: 5858 riders X5: 1975 riders X7: 1715 riders X2: 1506 riders X8: 1061 riders X9: 1051 riders X4: 701 riders X3: 681 riders X5: 35.9 riders per bus, 55 buses, 1975 riders X7: 35.7 riders per bus, 48 buses, 1715 riders X9: 35.0 riders per bus, 30 buses, 1051 riders X2: 34.2 riders per bus, 44 buses, 1506 riders X1: 33.5 riders per bus, 175 buses, 5858 riders X8: 31.2 riders per bus, 34 buses, 1061 riders X4: 29.2 riders per bus, 24 buses, 701 riders X3: 27.2 riders per bus, 25 buses, 681 riders (sources: http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus.htm, http://web.archive.org/web/20110606094335/http://mta.info/nyct/bus/schedule/xpress/x001cur.pdf) I also found it quite interesting that even though the X1 operates practically all day and so often during the day, it still pulls in an average of 33.5 riders per bus. But keep in mind that running any other Hylan Blvd bus all day would require reducing X1 service by quite a lot. I think that the X1 is fine on its own right now, but If I had to choose a bus to run all day, it would be the X7 because it serves both areas in Staten Island that the X1 doesn't serve, but the X7 bypasses Lower Manhattan except for the World Financial Center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted August 10, 2012 Share #65 Posted August 10, 2012 The thing that I don't understand is with him is that does he not realize that ALL services have periods in which ridership is light? That goes for subways, buses, MetroNorth and the LIRR, not just express buses and sometimes yes they're more costly to run. That's part of running a transportation agency. You have to find a balance with this and try to provide some service where possible. Going by his proposal, he would leave people stranded by cutting services when ridership isn't high, which does nothing but deter ridership overall. For the people that use and needs services at times when ridership is light they are being told that they don't matter. Not everyone works 9-5 jobs. I myself was working overnight for a short period when I took a semester off to prepare for moving to Italy and it is not easy at all. In my case I had to spend my days running around to get paperwork and such completed at the Italian consulate and finalize things with my university and try to work when I could at night so that I had sufficient money while living overseas, since I could not work there at the time. While folks can accept less service, telling them that they don't need any service is basically saying that they don't matter because they're not part of the masses. It is true. Every time I take express buses is during off peak hours or in the off peak direction, once on the BM5, and a couple other times on the QM15. Those buses sure do fill a void in bus service, and even though they might not have the amount needed, it doesn't mean it has to be cut. Even the X27/X28 at times during off peak hours may not have heavy ridership, but it's there for network coverage and connectivity purposes. Without the express buses most riders will have to take a multiple seat ride or in some case even have to pay a higher fare than taking an express bus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share #66 Posted August 10, 2012 Here's some statistics for Hylan Blvd bus service from 2011. X1: 5858 riders X5: 1975 riders X7: 1715 riders X2: 1506 riders X8: 1061 riders X9: 1051 riders X4: 701 riders X3: 681 riders X5: 35.9 riders per bus, 55 buses, 1975 riders X7: 35.7 riders per bus, 48 buses, 1715 riders X9: 35.0 riders per bus, 30 buses, 1051 riders X2: 34.2 riders per bus, 44 buses, 1506 riders X1: 33.5 riders per bus, 175 buses, 5858 riders X8: 31.2 riders per bus, 34 buses, 1061 riders X4: 29.2 riders per bus, 24 buses, 701 riders X3: 27.2 riders per bus, 25 buses, 681 riders (sources: http://www.mta.info/...dership_bus.htm, http://web.archive.o...ess/x001cur.pdf) I also found it quite interesting that even though the X1 operates practically all day and so often during the day, it still pulls in an average of 33.5 riders per bus. But keep in mind that running any other Hylan Blvd bus all day would require reducing X1 service by quite a lot. I think that the X1 is fine on its own right now, but If I had to choose a bus to run all day, it would be the X7 because it serves both areas in Staten Island that the X1 doesn't serve, but the X7 bypasses Lower Manhattan except for the World Financial Center. The reason the X7 has higher ridership now is because the X6 was cut. You can have all of the variants you want, but the X1 IS the bus on Staten Island. The MTA has tried everything to cut it back by extending the time that the X2 runs, to cutting back the X1 (which just a few years ago used to run as often as every 6-8 minutes during the off peak times in the evening (and we're talking 20:00 - 21:00 at night)) and beefing up the X7 for example and still the X1 continues to grow, particularly because of where it runs in the city and it basically serves the core of the ridership on Staten Island as well, connecting folks who are heading to the North Shore along with the South Shore and Mid Island folks. The X7 meanwhile doesn't provide the same connections that the X1 does. Perhaps the X2 could be expanded a bit more, but the fact that more X2 service has already been extended to see if all of those X1 riders were truly X1 riders shows how important that bus is. I had been wanting more X2 for a long time since it would benefit my commute if I left out later in the morning when I lived on Staten Island and I personally thought that the extended service would see more ridership, but the X1s are still pretty crowded. It is true. Every time I take express buses is during off peak hours or in the off peak direction, once on the BM5, and a couple other times on the QM15. Those buses sure do fill a void in bus service, and even though they might not have the amount needed, it doesn't mean it has to be cut. Even the X27/X28 at times during off peak hours may not have heavy ridership, but it's there for network coverage and connectivity purposes. Without the express buses most riders will have to take a multiple seat ride or in some case even have to pay a higher fare than taking an express bus This is correct. The other thing is unfortunately, there are some areas that just don't need subway service and buses make more sense. If anything the advantage of having a bus instead of a train is the service can be reduced easier and lines can be moved easier as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 10, 2012 Share #67 Posted August 10, 2012 The X2 can be weekdays only, as well as the X3 and X7 to Allieviate overcrowding, also the X5 and X9 can be potential candidates for all weekday service The X3 & X4 are probably the last lines that need their hours expanded (especially the X3 considering it only goes up to New Dorp). If overcrowding is an issue, then just add more X1 service. I also found it quite interesting that even though the X1 operates practically all day and so often during the day, it still pulls in an average of 33.5 riders per bus. But keep in mind that running any other Hylan Blvd bus all day would require reducing X1 service by quite a lot. I think that the X1 is fine on its own right now, but If I had to choose a bus to run all day, it would be the X7 because it serves both areas in Staten Island that the X1 doesn't serve, but the X7 bypasses Lower Manhattan except for the World Financial Center. If there's any route that I would expand, it would be the X5. It already has the longest span and the highest ridership out of all the Hylan Blvd routes (outside the X1 of course). Plus, it's a much faster ride to Midtown than the X7, because it goes up the FDR Drive (and aside from that, it serves East Midtown, whereas the X7 duplicates the X1 while serving West Midtown). And of course, within SI, it serves Father Capodanno Blvd like the X7 does. But of course, I'd just improve X1 service for now. But if there's ever more demand for service to East Midtown, the X5 would be the best way to do it. As for the 30 rider threshold, that's a pretty high threshold. I'd just prefer doing it by cost per passenger (say, anything over $12 per passenger gets cut unless you need it for coverage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 11, 2012 Share #68 Posted August 11, 2012 Nothing in that list means much of anything w/o at least an explanation why what's being suggested, is being suggested..... So he knows how to use the shift key & press 1, 2, 6, and 8..... No kidding I busted out laughing when I saw BM5 24/7 lol there is nothing you can possibly do to make BM5 24/7 even if ridership increases. I live by it and BM5 does not need that much service. No, that's wrong. There's still the local bus to the subway. You act as if people actually want to do that seriously stop. The thing that I don't understand is with him is that does he not realize that ALL services have periods in which ridership is light? That goes for subways, buses, MetroNorth and the LIRR, not just express buses and sometimes yes they're more costly to run. That's part of running a transportation agency. You have to find a balance with this and try to provide some service where possible. Going by his proposal, he would leave people stranded by cutting services when ridership isn't high, which does nothing but deter ridership overall. For the people that use and needs services at times when ridership is light they are being told that they don't matter. Not everyone works 9-5 jobs. I myself was working overnight for a short period when I took a semester off to prepare for moving to Italy and it is not easy at all. In my case I had to spend my days running around to get paperwork and such completed at the Italian consulate and finalize things with my university and try to work when I could at night so that I had sufficient money while living overseas, since I could not work there at the time. While folks can accept less service, telling them that they don't need any service is basically saying that they don't matter because they're not part of the masses. @Adam... The MTA has stated that off peak ridership has steadily grown, which is part of the reason why they've been able to restore some services that were cut, so explain to me why you're so obsessed with cutting off peak services when ridership continues to grow? If you're only interested in cutting off peak express bus service then explain why that is because it seems to me that you continuously harp on how expensive express bus service is to run while ignoring how expensive it is to run the LIRR, MetroNorth and the other services. True it is a foolish move to cut services that are growing in demand if ridership is increasing at off peak you can't cut it anymore as demand has materialized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 11, 2012 Share #69 Posted August 11, 2012 You act as if people actually want to do that seriously stop. You know what? Never propose a single express bus cut again then. I don't care if it's the BM4, QM4, or some other low-ridership route (even if it's just off-peak service). If you're going to give me that BS of "Oh, nobody wants to take the bus to the subway", then you need to follow your own logic and keep every single express bus route. Now since I haven't made a stupid comment like that, I can talk about cuts all I want (which I've already listed 1,000 times the few routes I'd reduce, so there's no need to repeat that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted August 11, 2012 Share #70 Posted August 11, 2012 Agree with that - but the MTA should have to run it by eliminating waste elsewhere---such as the off-peak runs from College Point that don't carry. This is where NYCT loading guidelines should be applied to MTA Bus. Off-peak express service should carry at least 30 passengers per trip off peak to even be worth it...under which many CP express routes (and possibly many SC routes) would not make the cut. 30 is a bit high, a lot of routes would see significant service reductions or off peak elimination if that number were 15-20. That said here are the official guidelines, note that there is no min for a route to exist, only a min to have more than hourly service... (high capacity = MCI, low capacity = old O5 expresses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 11, 2012 Share #71 Posted August 11, 2012 30 is a bit high, a lot of routes would see significant service reductions or off peak elimination if that number were 15-20. That said here are the official guidelines, note that there is no min for a route to exist, only a min to have more than hourly service... So basically, they're saying that if it has more than that guideline, it'll see increased frequencies (so off-peak, if the bus has more than 20 passengers per bus, it'll get its headways improved). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted August 12, 2012 Share #72 Posted August 12, 2012 The X1 should obviously have 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share #73 Posted August 12, 2012 The X1 should obviously have 24/7. It will starting next year, hence the reason for starting the thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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