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Fixing the M60 Route from Delays?


aemoreira81

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I think (B35) was saying the "M60" would be a semi super express' between 31st and 82nd making only the following stops along the GCP SERVICE road.

 

1)31st/Astroria Blvd (N) station 2)Steinway 3)82nd 4)94th/Ditmars (eastbound only) then all stops in the Main terminals.

 

I actually agree with him. Late nights between 12 Misnight-6am when the Q19 is not is only time the M60 should make all stops along the GCP service road.

 

Use GCP itself not Astoria Blvd (aka GCP Service road) as GCP moves decently from 31st Street to 82nd Street

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Use GCP itself not Astoria Blvd (aka GCP Service road) as GCP moves decently from 31st Street to 82nd Street

 

Being fair the GCP can be a parking lot (not as bad as the24/7 full time ones on the Cross Bronx, Major Degan, LIE or BQE)during rush hours and also during peak times on weekends at start and end of holiday periods i.e Wed & Sunday evening of Thanksgiving weekend, etc.

 

So i guess that the reason the (M60) stays on the GCP service road along with possible height issues.

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Being fair the GCP can be a parking lot (not as bad as the24/7 full time ones on the Cross Bronx, Major Degan, LIE or BQE)during rush hours and also during peak times on weekends at start and end of holiday periods i.e Wed & Sunday evening of Thanksgiving weekend, etc.

 

So i guess that the reason the (M60) stays on the GCP service road along with possible height issues.

 

That part of GCP also part of I-278 and CP Express buses to and from 126th Street use that and GCP rush hour traffic does not start until around 82nd Street. The exit to 82nd Street is at around 75th to 77th Street

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Use GCP itself not Astoria Blvd (aka GCP Service road) as GCP moves decently from 31st Street to 82nd Street

 

I simply do not agree with moving all M60 service, in either direction, onto the GCP...

 

The (M60) already runs 24/7. I really don't know what can be done with M60 except making it a LTD along Astoria Blvd.

It already acts as a LTD along astoria, fam....

 

Even it's local, M60 feels like LTD version of Q19 along Astoria Blvd since it only stop at

 

- 31st, Steinway, 46th, 49th, 74th, 77th, 82nd Sts EB,

- 78th, 74th, 49th, Sound, Steinway, 33rd, 31st Sts WB.

I didn't realize it had as many stops along astoria as you just listed, eastbound & westbound.... which is exactly why I'd run it nonstop b/w steinway & 82nd....

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I simply do not agree with moving all M60 service, in either direction, onto the GCP...

 

 

It already acts as a LTD along astoria, fam....

 

 

I didn't realize it had as many stops along astoria as you just listed, eastbound & westbound.... which is exactly why I'd run it nonstop b/w steinway & 82nd....

 

Having seen the M60 again today, I would modify my plan by dropping the SBS, but with these revisions:

 

1. Stopping in Manhattan retained from my original post:

2. Keep the M60 and M61 patterns, but also have another route (the Q61) operate only between Astoria and LaGuardia Airport, and then run to 21 Street and Astoria Boulevard. This route would be under MTA Bus and serve all terminals, and would be scheduled to provide service every 10 minutes during the day along Astoria Boulevard from 31 Street to 82 Street.

 

The aim of point 2 is: If there is a problem on the RFK Bridge, there is still a bus to the airport. The Q61 would be every 20 minutes and serve all terminals.

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Having seen the M60 again today, I would modify my plan by dropping the SBS, but with these revisions:

 

1. Stopping in Manhattan retained from my original post:

2. Keep the M60 and M61 patterns, but also have another route (the Q61) operate only between Astoria and LaGuardia Airport, and then run to 21 Street and Astoria Boulevard. This route would be under MTA Bus and serve all terminals, and would be scheduled to provide service every 10 minutes during the day along Astoria Boulevard from 31 Street to 82 Street.

 

The aim of point 2 is: If there is a problem on the RFK Bridge, there is still a bus to the airport. The Q61 would be every 20 minutes and serve all terminals.

 

will M61 help with overcrowding on M60??? cause most of M60's problems are in manhattan rather than in queens. Plus if ur gonna have an M61 then a Q61 would be utterly useless and a duplicate waste ppl will ignore it to get the M61 at rush hr those Q61 buses will piss off many ppl. So let M61 do that then let M60 either bypass marine terminal or turn super express via GCP cause usage along astoria blvd is quite low.

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No need. If needed just expanded and beef up service on either the (Q19) Astroria Blvd or (Q49) Ditmars and expand either one to/from LGA for that "Q61" idea. I agree with (B35) the "M60" should run non stop between Steinway and 82nd Street. Late Nights Only appx. 1230am-5am, when the (Q19) is not running then run it 'local' between 31st/Astoria Bl. (N) station and the terminals.

 

 

Having seen the M60 again today, I would modify my plan by dropping the SBS, but with these revisions:

 

1. Stopping in Manhattan retained from my original post:

2. Keep the M60 and M61 patterns, but also have another route (the Q61) operate only between Astoria and LaGuardia Airport, and then run to 21 Street and Astoria Boulevard. This route would be under MTA Bus and serve all terminals, and would be scheduled to provide service every 10 minutes during the day along Astoria Boulevard from 31 Street to 82 Street.

 

The aim of point 2 is: If there is a problem on the RFK Bridge, there is still a bus to the airport. The Q61 would be every 20 minutes and serve all terminals.

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Having seen the M60 again today, I would modify my plan by dropping the SBS, but with these revisions:

 

1. Stopping in Manhattan retained from my original post:

 

2. Keep the M60 and M61 patterns, but also have another route (the Q61) operate only between Astoria and LaGuardia Airport, and then run to 21 Street and Astoria Boulevard. This route would be under MTA Bus and serve all terminals, and would be scheduled to provide service every 10 minutes during the day along Astoria Boulevard from 31 Street to 82 Street.

 

The aim of point 2 is: If there is a problem on the RFK Bridge, there is still a bus to the airport. The Q61 would be every 20 minutes and serve all terminals.

M60: ~10-12 min headways (currently they run @ 7-8min headways)

"M61": ~20 min headways (if it's every third M60 you're sayin)

Q19: 20 min headways [used to be 30 before they sent it to flushing]

"Q61": 10 min headways

 

^^ Layin it out like this, I see an obvious problem (too much service along astoria blvd)... but I'll try to help out w/ this one b/c I like what you're tryna do here overall..... IMO, to make this work, I would have the Q19 take on the Q69 route west of 82nd.... So you can have the "Q61" run b/w Astoria & LGA along astoria blvd.... In other words:

 

Q69: Untouched (8-10 mins IINM)

 

Q19: Runs b/w Flushing & Astoria (20 min headways)

- via Astoria blvd east of 78th st (flushing bound buses turn down 82nd)

- via Ditmars blvd, to Ditmars blvd subway at the very least....

 

"Q61": Runs b/w Astoria & LGA (10 min headways)

- via Astoria blvd west of 82nd, then M60 routing to serve both central & marine air terminals....

 

....While leaving w/e service levels your M60/61 idea would have, alone.....

 

 

 

will M61 help with overcrowding on M60??? cause most of M60's problems are in manhattan rather than in queens.

 

Plus if ur gonna have an M61 then a Q61 would be utterly useless and a duplicate waste ppl will ignore it to get the M61 at rush hr those Q61 buses will piss off many ppl.

 

So let M61 do that then let M60 either bypass marine terminal or turn super express via GCP cause usage along astoria blvd is quite low.

1) You answered your own question.... His "M61" wouldn't serve central terminal.... most M60 (well LGA) patrons are seeking central terminal once inside the airport.. Those that would seek "M61's", would be those tryna avoid the crowding on the M60 - that occurs in Manhattan....

 

...b/c every M60 rider isn't looking to go inside the airport (you'd be surprised how many get off, xferring to some Queens route)

 

 

2) The "Q61" would not be useless, and how would it piss off anyone?... I see you like to equate your disapproval of an idea to people supposedly getting pissed off.... Seems like you don't know the ridership habits of folks along the M60 route to even say somethin like that....

 

His "Q61" would serve Marine Air & Central Terminals

His "M61" would only serve Marine Air.....

 

....if anything, those boarding in Queens would get "pissed off" over his M61.... That's where the Q61 comes into play.... divvying it up like that, is his way of crowd control, regarding the current M60.....

 

 

3) I wouldn't exactly go about it the way Mr Moreira has, either.... but I get what he's tryna do...

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Not sure that you can have too much service along western Astoria Boulevard, given that much of the ridership is between two major generators. But given that the M61 would end at a lightly-used terminal, perhaps that route SHOULD run local along Astoria Boulevard (the M60 would still run express). The other revision I would make is to extend the Q48, and I would accept another poster's suggestion to have the western part of the Q19 be merged into the Q48, and have the eastern part merged into the Q69, discontinuing the Q19 (and Q103). So instead of the Q61, there would be an extended Q48, which should pay for my plan - of course, it does involve replacing part of an MTA Bus line with a NYC Transit line.

 

What would happen?

 

1. Q48 - Flushing to LaGuardia Airport, then on to Long Island City LIRR via Astoria Boulevard and Vernon Boulevard.. This would eliminate my Q61 idea, but the Q48 would operate bidirectionally through LGA. Eastbound service would run via Marine Air Terminal first, and westbound service would run via Central Terminals first. This would take over the western portion of the Q19 route, and all of the Q103 route, providing later service into the growing southern Long Island City area.

2. Q69 - Long Island City to Flushing via Astoria (21 Street, Ditmars Boulevard, and Astoria Boulevard). This idea, credited to prior posters, would provide better transportation options in Astoria to points east. Alternating buses would terminate at Astoria/82. This takes over the eastern part of the Q19, which would be discontinued.

3. M60 - UWS to LaGuardia Airport - No Marine Air. Same plan as I proposed, express in Queens via the Grand Central Parkway.

4. M61 - UWS to LaGuardia Airport - Marine Air only. This would operate local on Astoria Boulevard, scheduled to operate with the extended Q48 to provide 10-minute headways along western Astoria Boulevard.

 

The primary fix being made is to handle crowds going between LGA Central Terminals and Astoria, and others are to pay for the extension. A secondary fix is into Long Island City to generate new ridership.

 

The M60/1 would use articulated buses, since they would be interlined---and some runs also interlined with the M116.

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Not sure that you can have too much service along western Astoria Boulevard, given that much of the ridership is between two major generators. But given that the M61 would end at a lightly-used terminal, perhaps that route SHOULD run local along Astoria Boulevard (the M60 would still run express). The other revision I would make is to extend the Q48, and I would accept another poster's suggestion to have the western part of the Q19 be merged into the Q48, and have the eastern part merged into the Q69, discontinuing the Q19 (and Q103). So instead of the Q61, there would be an extended Q48, which should pay for my plan - of course, it does involve replacing part of an MTA Bus line with a NYC Transit line.

 

What would happen?

 

1. Q48 - Flushing to LaGuardia Airport, then on to Long Island City LIRR via Astoria Boulevard and Vernon Boulevard.. This would eliminate my Q61 idea, but the Q48 would operate bidirectionally through LGA. Eastbound service would run via Marine Air Terminal first, and westbound service would run via Central Terminals first. This would take over the western portion of the Q19 route, and all of the Q103 route, providing later service into the growing southern Long Island City area.

2. Q69 - Long Island City to Flushing via Astoria (21 Street, Ditmars Boulevard, and Astoria Boulevard). This idea, credited to prior posters, would provide better transportation options in Astoria to points east. Alternating buses would terminate at Astoria/82. This takes over the eastern part of the Q19, which would be discontinued.

3. M60 - UWS to LaGuardia Airport - No Marine Air. Same plan as I proposed, express in Queens via the Grand Central Parkway.

4. M61 - UWS to LaGuardia Airport - Marine Air only. This would operate local on Astoria Boulevard, scheduled to operate with the extended Q48 to provide 10-minute headways along western Astoria Boulevard.

 

The primary fix being made is to handle crowds going between LGA Central Terminals and Astoria, and others are to pay for the extension. A secondary fix is into Long Island City to generate new ridership.

 

The M60/1 would use articulated buses, since they would be interlined---and some runs also interlined with the M116.

 

Now much better you are quick on the draw thats a very good thing. Well done I guess you are good for city planning. I however am below average hance why I never made any route revision plans for NYC it's just not my strength. This idea is much better than ur previous one. I think the Q67 can be enhanced and then with enough service the ability to replace a segment on the Q69 on 21 st then interline with Q18 to justify service enhancement.

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Aemoreira Your lastest M60/M61/Q48 revised proposals is not bad. I do think you so called "M61' should run only between Lex/125th (4)(5)(6) and Marine Air Terminal making all stops along Astoria Blvd daily 5am-Midnight.

 

125th Street is too congested to have another bus. Let those riders transfer to the regular (M60) route. Overnights the "M60" travels along existing route via Marine Air Terminal.

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Not sure that you can have too much service along western Astoria Boulevard, given that much of the ridership is between two major generators. But given that the M61 would end at a lightly-used terminal, perhaps that route SHOULD run local along Astoria Boulevard (the M60 would still run express). The other revision I would make is to extend the Q48, and I would accept another poster's suggestion to have the western part of the Q19 be merged into the Q48, and have the eastern part merged into the Q69, discontinuing the Q19 (and Q103). So instead of the Q61, there would be an extended Q48, which should pay for my plan - of course, it does involve replacing part of an MTA Bus line with a NYC Transit line.

 

What would happen?

 

1. Q48 - Flushing to LaGuardia Airport, then on to Long Island City LIRR via Astoria Boulevard and Vernon Boulevard.. This would eliminate my Q61 idea, but the Q48 would operate bidirectionally through LGA. Eastbound service would run via Marine Air Terminal first, and westbound service would run via Central Terminals first. This would take over the western portion of the Q19 route, and all of the Q103 route, providing later service into the growing southern Long Island City area.

 

2. Q69 - Long Island City to Flushing via Astoria (21 Street, Ditmars Boulevard, and Astoria Boulevard). This idea, credited to prior posters, would provide better transportation options in Astoria to points east. Alternating buses would terminate at Astoria/82. This takes over the eastern part of the Q19, which would be discontinued.

 

3. M60 - UWS to LaGuardia Airport - No Marine Air. Same plan as I proposed, express in Queens via the Grand Central Parkway.

 

4. M61 - UWS to LaGuardia Airport - Marine Air only. This would operate local on Astoria Boulevard, scheduled to operate with the extended Q48 to provide 10-minute headways along western Astoria Boulevard.

 

The primary fix being made is to handle crowds going between LGA Central Terminals and Astoria, and others are to pay for the extension. A secondary fix is into Long Island City to generate new ridership.

 

The M60/1 would use articulated buses, since they would be interlined---and some runs also interlined with the M116.

 

You absolutely can have too much service along Astoria blvd.... Why do you think the current Q19 ran (and IMO, still) run on high headways....

 

 

As for this latest revision....

 

I think you're regressing..... I don't see why you're bringing LIC into this; how much usage do you really expect out of that "Q48" past astoria blvd subway? Vernon blvd is a lost cause, all the ridership on the more western part of queens goes to the 69 & the 100..... virtually no one xfers to the Q19 @ 21st/astoria (its terminal)...

 

Anyone within/around LIC that needs the airport, are gonna take the (N)(Q) to Astoria blvd for the M60 (this is why I wouldn't have buses traveling along GCP east of 31st/astoria.... this is why your "Q61" would work)... You can still have the M60 operate express & the M61 operate local - both using Astoria blvd...

 

Quite honestly, I think your "Q61" idea makes more sense...

You would just have to figure out what to do w/ the 19, instead of bringing the 103 into the mix.....

 

The current Q69 has the same issue that the Q23 has - that it doesn't go inside the airport.... The Q69 holds it's own b/c it has the moderate-to-high amount of usage along 21st st....

 

The current Q48 has been relegated to, and is, nothin more than a transfer route.... there are more ppl. comin off other buses to catch the 48 w/i the airport, than there are Flushing riders seeking the airport.... There are more ppl. that catch the 48 around the airport (meaning OUTSIDE the airport; along 82nd & along 23rd) than w/i the airport.....

 

^^ This tells me one thing, and one thing only - the demand from (in or around) the airport to Flushing is far higher than the demand from flushing inside the airport..... This is why a bi-directional service through the airport wouldn't be (near as) successful.... You can have the 48 travel to Astoria w/o havin it go inside the airport....

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As for this plan.... I don't see why you're bringing LIC into this; how much usage do you really expect out of that "Q48" past astoria blvd subway? Vernon blvd is a lost cause, all the ridership on the more western part of queens goes to the 69 & the 100..... virtually no one xfers to the Q19 @ 21st/astoria (its terminal)...

 

 

 

Q103 usage have increase so much that Q103 now runs from 6:30-6:10 to Hunters Point and from 7:00-6:40 to Astoria and trip time have increase from 16 minute a trip to as much as 21 minute a trip

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Q103 usage have increase so much that Q103 now runs from 6:30-6:10 to Hunters Point and from 7:00-6:40 to Astoria and trip time have increase from 16 minute a trip to as much as 21 minute a trip

Yeah, but what core group of riders are taking 103's.... and where are they ultimately going....

 

Who is extending 48's down Vernon blvd supposed to benefit?

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I think extending 48 to Vernon is stupid but I was just point out Q103 in my post

 

alright, gotcha bro....

 

 

Aemoreira Your lastest M60/M61/Q48 revised proposals is not bad. I do think you so called "M61' should run only between Lex/125th (4)(5)(6) and Marine Air Terminal making all stops along Astoria Blvd daily 5am-Midnight.

 

125th Street is too congested to have another bus. Let those riders transfer to the regular (M60) route. Overnights the "M60" travels along existing route via Marine Air Terminal.

1) I don't see what good ending buses at Lex/125th will do; M60's coming from Queens aren't where the problems stem from on the route.... may as well have all manhattan bound 60's/61's head towards 106th/broadway....

 

2) It's not "another bus".... His "M61" is the same core service as the M60.....

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Bro (B35) one of the biggest problems of the (M60) is the horribile double parked cars/trucks and traffic along 125th causing delays/bus bunching. Not to mention the traffic issues sometimes on the RFK Triboro as well.

 

Even you suggested that during the day every other (M60)should start/end w/ short at the 125th/St. Nicholas (A) (;)(C)(D) station. Thus why his so called "M61" should terminate at

Lex/125th.

 

Plus IMO the "M61" should be a local along Astroria Blvd since it going to Marine Air Terminal. While the (M60) IMO should a semi express stopping only at 31st/Astoria Blvd (N) and Steinway Street all times except overnights when the "M61" does not run.

 

I agree with all M60's with this "M61" plan termnating at 106th/Broadway.

However to improve 'realability' IMO the "M61' does not need to travel fully crosstown. If needed give those riders an extra transfer to/from the "M61" or expanded (Q19) service at the Astroria Blvd/31 Street station. The only way the so called "M61" should travel fully across 125th is (I know it will never happen)is either ban parking or create a 125th SBS-type only lane.

 

Just my takes.

 

alright, gotcha bro....

 

 

 

1) I don't see what good ending buses at Lex/125th will do; M60's coming from Queens aren't where the problems stem from on the route.... may as well have all manhattan bound 60's/61's head towards 106th/broadway....

 

2) It's not "another bus".... His "M61" is the same core service as the M60.....

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Bro (B35) one of the biggest problems of the (M60) is the horribile double parked cars/trucks and traffic along 125th causing delays/bus bunching.

 

Even you suggested that during the day every other (M60)should start/end w/ short at the 125th/St. Nicholas (A) (;)(C)(D) station. Thus why his so called "M61" should terminate at Lex/125th.

Plus IMO the "M61" should be a local along Astroria Blvd since it going to Marine Air Terminal. While the (M60) IMO should a semi express stopping only at 31st/Astoria Blvd (N) and Steinway Street.

 

I agree with all M60's with this "M61" plan termnating at 106th/Broadway.

However to improve 'realability' IMO the "M61' does not need to travel fully crosstown. If needed give those riders an extra to the "M61" or expanded (Q19) service at Astroria Blvd/31 Street station. The only way the so called "M61" should travel fully across 125th is (I know it will never happen)is either ban parking or create a 125th SBS-type only lane.

 

Just my takes.

The part bolded red is contradictory... you do realize that....

 

Anyway, No...

I'm sayin buses should start @ St nick/125th, heading towards LGA only... I did specify that...

 

You OTOH, are talking about ending buses @ Lex/125th... This is the same exact solution you propose for Bx15's not traveling along 125th btw.... What is so special about lex/125th to wanna make it a bus terminal.... Leave M35's terminating over there & that's it.....

 

Havin his "M61's" travel from lex/125th to marine air terminal would have MORE folks wanting to cram onto his M60's.... it doesn't solve much of anything on the Manhattan end....

 

basically what you're implying is that less (current) M60's should travel along 125th....

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How about extending the Q50 to LGA making LTD stops from Flushing? It would give the East Bronx a one fare connection to LGA and CitiField. It would also save the MTA in operating costs if they can eventually reduce service on the Q48 and help relive the M60 (since many M60 riders come from the Bronx).

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How about extending the Q50 to LGA making LTD stops from Flushing? It would give the East Bronx a one fare connection to LGA and CitiField. It would also save the MTA in operating costs if they can eventually reduce service on the Q48 and help relive the M60 (since many M60 riders come from the Bronx).

 

 

Disagree. I think a plan about 4-5 years back (right before the start of the fiscal crisis) when former (MTA) chairman "Lee" Sander proposed a list of expanded bus/subway services. One of them was a LGA-Bronx route via the RFK Triboro that would have ran (correct me if wrong)between the airport and the Fordham Plaza area. That or a similar type makes more sense than extending the Q50 which can easily be delayed by a busier Whitestone Bridge.

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