Threxx Posted August 13, 2012 Share #76 Posted August 13, 2012 The B82 needs help, yes, but the way Shortline wants to split it is going to over-saturate Kings Highway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted August 13, 2012 Share #77 Posted August 13, 2012 I make top of my head post and get bashed. Ohh well why not extend select B42 runs to gateway mall via belt? Instead of messing with B82? Too much construction at Canarise Pier that's first and foremost. 2nd: There is a weight RESTRICTION b/w Kings Plaza and Penn Avenue (Exit 14).. 3rd: You would need the B42 to either travel down Glenwood and/or Flatlands to make this go down (not happening) At the end of the day.. You gotta leave the B42 out of this. B42 does very well as a shuttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted August 13, 2012 Share #78 Posted August 13, 2012 Yeah the B42 is SRO on every trip by the time they get to the train station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share #79 Posted August 13, 2012 Yeah the B42 is SRO on every trip by the time they get to the train station You must be talking about the rush hours because whenever I see it in the off peak there are always seats available and on the weekends I never see more than half a dozen passengers on each bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted August 13, 2012 Share #80 Posted August 13, 2012 You must be talking about the rush hours because whenever I see it in the off peak there are always seats available and on the weekends I never see more than half a dozen passengers on each bus. I'm talking about weekdays and weekend during the morning and evenings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 13, 2012 Share #81 Posted August 13, 2012 Too much construction at Canarise Pier that's first and foremost. 2nd: There is a weight RESTRICTION b/w Kings Plaza and Penn Avenue (Exit 14).. 3rd: You would need the B42 to either travel down Glenwood and/or Flatlands to make this go down (not happening) At the end of the day.. You gotta leave the B42 out of this. B42 does very well as a shuttle. Thanks for explaining that I did not know that I thought the restriction started west of canarsie. The B82 needs help, yes, but the way Shortline wants to split it is going to over-saturate Kings Highway... True I was talking top of my head I did not like shortline's idea at all. B82 is not so bad that it needs a change like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share #82 Posted August 13, 2012 I'm talking about weekdays and weekend during the morning and evenings A bus route is not successful if it is only heavily used for a few hours each day which is typical of routes that are subway feeders and nothing else. The route would benefit from some type of extension but the locals woud oppose it fearing a decline in service because thy don't trust that the MTA can operate long routes without delays, and who can blame them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share #83 Posted August 13, 2012 1 reason. The overpass. Stop trying to mess up the one perfect route in NYC... What overpass? The bus would not go over any overpasses between between Rockaway Parkway and Gateway except the one at Erskine Street which was built only a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted August 14, 2012 Share #84 Posted August 14, 2012 What overpass? The bus would not go over any overpasses between between Rockaway Parkway and Gateway except the one at Erskine Street which was built only a few years ago. Perhaps the extension from Canarsie Pier would have to travel under the overpass at Pennsylvania Avenue on the Belt if it was extended from it's southern terminus instead of the northern end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share #85 Posted August 14, 2012 Perhaps the extension from Canarsie Pier would have to travel under the overpass at Pennsylvania Avenue on the Belt if it was extended from it's southern terminus instead of the northern end? Perhaps that is what he meant, but from my reading of the Power Broker, I believe that buses would not have any problem as long as they are in the second or third lanes. It is only the right lane where clearance might be a problem. The express buses might have a problem in all the lanes. I believe some B1 buses use the Belt Parkway from Ulmer Park. Unless they make an illegal left turn they would have to go under the overpass at Cropsey Avenue when leaving the depot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 14, 2012 Share #86 Posted August 14, 2012 The B82 needs help, yes, but the way Shortline wants to split it is going to over-saturate Kings Highway... Well, we don't know how Shortline feels about B35's plan to reroute the B7 to Canarsie. In that case, as far as Kings Highway goes, it would be roughly the same amount of service as today. It's Flatlands Avenue that would still have too much service, though, since the B6 is a frequent route. You must be talking about the rush hours because whenever I see it in the off peak there are always seats available and on the weekends I never see more than half a dozen passengers on each bus. But even if there's only a few riders per bus, you have to consider that since the route is short, it's still a fairly efficient route. I mean, say it costs $60 an hour to operate the bus, and it takes 10 minutes to make the trip, that means it costs $10 per trip. Divide that over 6 people and the cost per passenger is like $1.67 per passenger. The MTA has it listed down (with the old data from the service cuts) as having 9,700 riders and a cost per passenger of $1.51 on the weekends. If there's roughly 400 trips or so on the weekends, that's around 24 riders per bus. They say they took into account the people transferring from the . There's always the chance they were sloppy with the data (maybe they doubled it twice or something). The B74 is listed as having 4,490 riders over the weekend, and the structure is similar to te B42, so I dunno. Here's the spreadsheet of the data: https://docs.google....RjbzZkT2c#gid=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share #87 Posted August 14, 2012 Well, we don't know how Shortline feels about B35's plan to reroute the B7 to Canarsie. In that case, as far as Kings Highway goes, it would be roughly the same amount of service as today. It's Flatlands Avenue that would still have too much service, though, since the B6 is a frequent route. But even if there's only a few riders per bus, you have to consider that since the route is short, it's still a fairly efficient route. I mean, say it costs $60 an hour to operate the bus, and it takes 10 minutes to make the trip, that means it costs $10 per trip. Divide that over 6 people and the cost per passenger is like $1.67 per passenger. The MTA has it listed down (with the old data from the service cuts) as having 9,700 riders and a cost per passenger of $1.51 on the weekends. If there's roughly 400 trips or so on the weekends, that's around 24 riders per bus. They say they took into account the people transferring from the . There's always the chance they were sloppy with the data (maybe they doubled it twice or something). The B74 is listed as having 4,490 riders over the weekend, and the structure is similar to te B42, so I dunno. Here's the spreadsheet of the data: https://docs.google....RjbzZkT2c#gid=2 All I can say is that the data looks suspicious but i really cant look at it now Just want to know why is the B42 listed as B424? It does make sense that the B42 would carry twice as many as the B74 because riders have a choice of the 74 or the 36 whereas 42 riders have no other choice, but the CI population could be greater because I believe there are more high rises there so who knows? All I can do is laugh at the note next to the B4 that says shortening the route should improve efficiency when the opposite happened when they released the new data one year after the cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 14, 2012 Share #88 Posted August 14, 2012 Yeah, This is gonna be good.... Just a thought (guys this off top of my head) B8 Loop Start at Va Hosp. loop, Then via 7th Avenue(too bad the Ft Hamilton military base has pemaently banned public transit buses)Left on 86th, Left on Ft. Hamilton(stop at Ft. Hamilton and 86th)Left on 92nd(stop for SI buses)right on 7th and onto Va Hosp for existing service to East Flatbush. My B8 loop would be similar to B36 Sea Gate loop. In B36 loop, bus terminates at West 37th and Surf. Then if riders want stops between West 37th/Surf and Neptune/West 33rd they transfer for next bus usually leaving. Or usually wait on current bus a max of 10-12 minutes. reactions? Exactly why I asked you how would you pull that off; b/c I already knew you would have to have buses running up to 86th st.... The xfer b/w the B8 & the SI buses is not nearly that imperative for all of that; doing what you're suggesting would end up eating up more mileage than if it simply ended @ 95th st subway...... my point is, while the idea of having the B8 loop from the hosp. to serve 92nd st may sound good on paper, it's not feasible to actually pull off...... Ohh well why not extend select B42 runs to gateway mall via belt? Because you would end up screwing up the commutes of too many riders, compared to the amt. of mall goers that would benefit from such an extension; it's the only route that runs straight to the subway (and all the bus connections around there; incl. the paerdegat 17's that encircles the area; the seaview /108th 17's don't serve the subway)...... I think if there weren't a creek separating canarsie from spring creek, the B17 would be sent over to that mall.... but current circumstances don't allow for that, so really, what can ya do....... ....Just make B82 some short turns from Rockaway Parkway run on the B82 route to Seaview and ten run to the Gateway with extending at least one Coney Island trip there. Or make those short turns from Kings HWY. No need to split the B82 LOL.... This is what shortline wants to accomplish ! Only difference is, you're not running the gateway mall spur westward all the way out to the brighton, or mermaid bus loop....... For all this B82 to gateway talk, you may as well move the route off penn (off serving starrett) & have it run straight on flatlands & along vandalia where those new houses are at, on down towards the mall...... Yeah the B42 is SRO on every trip by the time they get to the train station Bit of an exaggeration, but in general, yeah buses are packed..... You must be talking about the rush hours because whenever I see it in the off peak there are always seats available and on the weekends I never see more than half a dozen passengers on each bus. A bus route is not successful if it is only heavily used for a few hours each day which is typical of routes that are subway feeders and nothing else. The route would benefit from some type of extension but the locals woud oppose it fearing a decline in service because thy don't trust that the MTA can operate long routes without delays, and who can blame them? By (route) design, yes, but usage-wise, B42 isn't your typical subway feeder; the route actually gets more usage (intermediately as well, meaning not just to/from the subway), during the off peak more than you might think.... Not sure when the last time you headed out in the area was, but I can assure you it aint just during the rush when B42's get packed.... I'm sorry, but you're mad if you think only 6 ppl utilize the 42 in either direction on weekends on any consistent basis...... Where & when are you seeing these buses? Well, we don't know how Shortline feels about B35's plan to reroute the B7 to Canarsie. In that case, as far as Kings Highway goes, it would be roughly the same amount of service as today. It's Flatlands Avenue that would still have too much service, though, since the B6 is a frequent route. But even if there's only a few riders per bus, you have to consider that since the route is short, it's still a fairly efficient route. I mean, say it costs $60 an hour to operate the bus, and it takes 10 minutes to make the trip, that means it costs $10 per trip. Divide that over 6 people and the cost per passenger is like $1.67 per passenger. The MTA has it listed down (with the old data from the service cuts) as having 9,700 riders and a cost per passenger of $1.51 on the weekends. If there's roughly 400 trips or so on the weekends, that's around 24 riders per bus. They say they took into account the people transferring from the . There's always the chance they were sloppy with the data (maybe they doubled it twice or something). The B74 is listed as having 4,490 riders over the weekend, and the structure is similar to te B42, so I dunno. Here's the spreadsheet of the data: https://docs.google....RjbzZkT2c#gid=2 - Thanks for showing & proving (data), so to speak..... Trying to convey that the B42 gets a 1/2 dozen pax on the weekends is just plain crazy (that's comparable to the off peak B2 on weekdays, I mean c'mon).... that's like telling me the B74 gets the same amt. of riders on the weekends..... What I will say though is, I don't think the B42 gets more than twice as many riders than the 74; maybe they added the weekday ridership to the weekend ridership, and that's where that 9700 number comes from? - As far as Shortline's restructuring of service regarding that area (kings hwy/flatlands), He doesn't have to agree with me per say, but I don't recall anything involving what he'd do w/ the B7 (outside of wanting to extending it to ridgewood)...... The B6 b/w Ralph & the Rockaway pkwy sta. is all the "backup" that's needed, and like I said in threads before, you have ppl xferring from B82's to B6's anywhere along that stint.... It's done so that riders can make their way to/from the IRT& what not (not just for the , but for the also).... That's the only other route you need on that portion of flatlands..... I owe you a thanks..... I'm not getting any errors of being out of em, but I'm pressing the like button & nothing's happening..... 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BrooklynBus Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share #89 Posted August 14, 2012 B42-- Between January and September 2011 I was out by Rockaway Parkway and Avenue J everyday usually between 2 and 4 PM and usually saw no more than a dozen people on a bus. Sometimes there were only about six and the buses bunch there sometimes also on a short route like that. Towards 4PM it would be more crowded in the direction from the station. I used to ride the entire route as a kid on the weekends occasionally many years ago and remember them running only two buses on the line and they were usually empty south of Avenue L. Never once remember having to stand. But as I said it was a very long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 14, 2012 Share #90 Posted August 14, 2012 Well all I have to say to that is, the B42 is definitely not empty south of Av L (that's about 1/2 the route)..... and weekends, buses are not that usually empty like what you are describing...... There are more of them project heads down by Seaview av boarding NB & disembarking SB 42's than anything...... NB ridership only picks up from there..... I personally don't know of any bus bunching problem on the 42, maybe someone else can speak on that...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 14, 2012 Share #91 Posted August 14, 2012 All I can say is that the data looks suspicious but i really cant look at it now Just want to know why is the B42 listed as B424? It does make sense that the B42 would carry twice as many as the B74 because riders have a choice of the 74 or the 36 whereas 42 riders have no other choice, but the CI population could be greater because I believe there are more high rises there so who knows? All I can do is laugh at the note next to the B4 that says shortening the route should improve efficiency when the opposite happened when they released the new data one year after the cuts. Footnote #4 (Listed on the now-gone MTA document, but not the spreadsheet) mentions that, since riders don't dip MetroCards at the Rockaway Parkway station, they just took the northbound ridership and doubled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 15, 2012 Share #92 Posted August 15, 2012 Perhaps that is what he meant, but from my reading of the Power Broker, I believe that buses would not have any problem as long as they are in the second or third lanes. It is only the right lane where clearance might be a problem. The express buses might have a problem in all the lanes. I believe some B1 buses use the Belt Parkway from Ulmer Park. Unless they make an illegal left turn they would have to go under the overpass at Cropsey Avenue when leaving the depot. True but buses in general beyond knapp upto canarsie those bridges on the belt can't handle any bus MTA has even locals right due to weight restrictions? I heard a B/O that did say he could but isn't supposed too. Anywho my B42 extension applied to every other trip and select trips to avoid rush hour. I knew buses can physically go upto canarsie I just forgot. Ohh AM trips will not extend however till 9:00 am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY1635 Posted August 16, 2012 Share #93 Posted August 16, 2012 True but buses in general beyond knapp upto canarsie those bridges on the belt can't handle any bus MTA has even locals right due to weight restrictions? I heard a B/O that did say he could but isn't supposed too. Anywho my B42 extension applied to every other trip and select trips to avoid rush hour. I knew buses can physically go upto canarsie I just forgot. Ohh AM trips will not extend however till 9:00 am. I don't see where you're going with this. Your B42 to Gateway Mall is better off using Flatlands Avenue instead of the Belt Parkway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted August 17, 2012 Share #94 Posted August 17, 2012 I don't see where you're going with this. Your B42 to Gateway Mall is better off using Flatlands Avenue instead of the Belt Parkway. That can work too. Heck new service for ppl too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 17, 2012 Share #95 Posted August 17, 2012 I don't see where you're going with this. Your B42 to Gateway Mall is better off using Flatlands Avenue instead of the Belt Parkway. That can work too. Heck new service for ppl too. Why does the B42 even have to go to Gateway mall ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted August 17, 2012 Share #96 Posted August 17, 2012 Why does the B42 even have to go to Gateway mall ? My guess is to allow Canarsie riders to reach destinations other than the station. I agree on the B42 using Flatlands Av to reach the Mall. After all, it can either a) replace the B82 east of Canarsie Station, or b) have it be the new Spring Creek route the MTA's proposing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 17, 2012 Share #97 Posted August 17, 2012 I am in Canarsie EVERY weekend. The B42 is always at least a seated load. Sometimes there are even standees. Trying to say that the B42 get's 6 passengers on a weekend on each bus is just plain crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 17, 2012 Share #98 Posted August 17, 2012 I agree on the B42 using Flatlands Av to reach the Mall.After all, it can either a) replace the B82 east of Canarsie Station, or b) have it be the new Spring Creek route the MTA's proposing. Forget about ending all B82's at the L train station; there's barely enough space for all the short turn B6's that end there.... B82 usage b/w starrett & the L train isn't as high as many might think...... those folks tend to want the IRT, which is why the 83 gets utilized more than the 82 down there..... and the folks that aren't taking 83's are too busy making their way to the B6 after coming off the 82..... I'm not proposing this, but I sometimes wonder how much more usage the 103 would get if it went down to starrett (it would eliminate the 82 riders that are xferring to 6's)....... Anyway, I really don't think it's worth sending the 42 to gateway..... As far as that spring creek route, I can't see a canarsie - spring creek shuttle being viable...... I'm still eager to see what they're gonna do w/ that spring creek route & how redundant it might end up being..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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