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TheSubwayStation

Planned Subway Service Changes

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51 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

There was a crossover in the 11th Street cut? When was it removed, and what possible justification for that could there have been?

It was directly after the junction from the 60th Street tunnels, just west of the actual connection to Queens Plaza. It's shown on the older P. Dougherty maps on nycsubway.org if someone wants to go through the Wayback Archive to get them. I'll post it later if no one else does. As for its removal, it was probably justified like a lot of the removed crossovers, if it isn't used often enough to cover the costs of maintenance, it doesn't need to be there in the eyes of the MTA. Whether or not that's a correct belief is up to you, but ask yourself: how often does the westbound (R) need to terminate at Queens Plaza and reverse back?

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23 minutes ago, Maxwell179 said:

Where’s the 11th St Cut ?

It’s the connection between the 60th St tunnel and QBL local at Queens Plaza.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

There was a crossover in the 11th Street cut? When was it removed, and what possible justification for that could there have been?

Yes. It was installed to facilitate single tracking through 60th St, but was obsoleted by the opening of the 63rd Connector in 2001 which allowed (R) trains to fully avoid a single-direction outage in 60th. It was removed in 2004 or so. Here's an ancient single line showing it (h/t to @RailRunRob for sending me):

PzyTKZW.jpg

An RFW video showing the home signals that once protected it:

 

Edited by RR503
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Posted (edited)

 

On 6/18/2019 at 5:39 PM, RR503 said:

The point about terminal resiliency is a good one, but again, I don't think this is so simple. Whenever the (E)(F)(R) share a track northbound into Forest Hills (which is frequently these days), the former two get absolutely wrecked by the latter's terminal process. Forest Hills seems to do a decent enough job remembering not to fumigate weekdays, but on weekends things don't seem to work out so great. This would eliminate that source of congestion, and while it would indeed introduce a crossing move at Queens Plaza, I daresay that'd be less impactful than the whole shebang at Forest Hills. I concede the ease of access to yard pulls, but I'd be interested to know how often that is actually done -- certainly doesn't seem all too frequent what with the number of gaps that ricochet through that terminal.

I'm confused on your point on crewing. We already pay most of those costs to turn trains at Forest Hills. 

Both you and I know that the words 'on time' mean jack shit on weekends -- especially on the (R). I can't think of the last time they didn't give the (R) +8 mins through the 11th St cut, which is of course on top of whatever pile of holds they're throwing at Brooklyn. The issue, anyway, isn't so much the delays per se but the variability incurred on Queens Boulevard. Ops under flagging are...variable as hell; congestion propagates much faster, dwells get longer, and the actual area of slow speed changes from time to time (and there is of course always the chance you'll hit full flagging at some point). This is all to say that your average weekend (R) incurs a hell of a lot more variability on the Queens Boulevard corridor than is normal on weekdays. These gaps likely do not show up on reporting databases both because it doesn't take much to massacre 12 min headway service, and because of the aforementioned padding, but they're absolutely felt by riders who suffer 20+ min gaps regularly because of it. Would that behavior disappear if the (R) was pulled from QB? No -- as you say, 4th, Broadway, whatever shade of hell Dekalb has chosen for the weekend all will play roles. But it'd certainly help in a tangible way. 

I'll clarify a few points really quick to avoid belaboring the topic. 

1) The language that avoids fumigating a train is that the train must go back in service immediately, so if the train is expected to loiter in the relay (for example letting an (E)(F) pass, the train would likely have to be cleared under a very strict and literal reading of the instructions), to credit the idea of QP as a terminal trains relaying to D5 can go right back in service since with the express tracks closed there is no conflicting move to wait on (going downtown). 

2) Its not a surprise if it happens that switching crews are taking trains down to the yard and pulling them up, and there are enough switching crews in the station so that fetching a train from the yard does not impact baseline operations.

As far as crewing, I finally had time to dig through the GO and how it played out, the extra shifts were caused by a few variables, some of which do not necessarily apply to this scenario so I'll discard the added shifts. As I had originally read from the GO, those FH switching crews still remained, in addition to QP crews, which would be a net cost since you still have to pay FH crews on top of QP crews.

What I can see as a Political/Management level objection is a loss in utility as the number of crews to run the  schedule and turn the trains at QP is much lower than the full service to FH. Which sounds like a huge win, but it isn't, this will leave you with quite a few crews 'sitting around, doing nothing', something the  is keen on avoiding. As can be seen by the 'Overtime scandal' where shifts were increased to expedite numerous Capital projects but *gasp* the overtime pay out increased. 

3) Right now the scheduled run time is 4-8 minutes longer than the last time table, but if the  all share a track something has to give during the weekday. In the same way the  suffer from this problem 

4) I'm not purporting that 'on time' is indicative of 5-star stellar service, however I mention the service advisories as an illustration of where the major meltdowns occur, which is the primary cause of my objection to QP. I think NYCT does pads the wrong way, rather than holds, it should be done with increased running time (or realistic dwell time) .

Just to be clear I think QP is technically acceptable as a terminal, it's even workable under ideal circumstances. I don't have a reason to believe it would happen based on inertia and apparent inefficiencies that would be hard to publicly justify when they eventually get exposed. People barely tolerate delays due to 12-9s and heart attacks, I struggle to believe a blatant amount of overstaffing would survive scrutiny, but that's my Operational experience talking. As I've said earlier I think that there should be an Express-to-Local and Local-to-Express crossover west of Forest Hills so trains terminating can alternate tracks and through trains can be woven around. 

As far as working with what we have at our disposal, I'm more keen on the (E)(F) running to Hillside with the (R) running to Jamaica Center as the issue of one train terminating infront of two other lines needs to be addressed. I do disagree with the current method of operation. This also has the benefit of allowing the Forest Hills switch crews to be distributed to Hillside which is justifiable (although similar net cost to other scenarios, but we can't let the spreadsheet turn red for crew utility, so it helps the KPIs, politics etc). 

Edited by Jsunflyguy
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4 minutes ago, Jsunflyguy said:

3) Right now the scheduled run time is 4-8 minutes longer than the last time table, but if the  all share a track something has to give during the weekday. In the same way the  suffer from this problem 

4) I'm not purporting that 'on time' is indicative of 5-star stellar service, however I mention the service advisories as an illustration of where the major meltdowns occur, which is the primary cause of my objection to QP. I think NYCT does pads the wrong way, rather than holds, it should be done with increased running time (or realistic dwell time) .

For 3, are you looking at the base or the supplement? Because OTP is done against the supplement, and those have tons of holds beyond what’s in the base. 

With you on 4. Throwing holds at a schedule gets crews in the right place and makes OTP look good. That’s it. Merges still get out of whack, app predictions from the supplemented GTFS are still of no value, etc. It’s really, really sloppy work that’s taken the agency by storm over the past few years. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, RR503 said:

For 3, are you looking at the base or the supplement? Because OTP is done against the supplement, and those have tons of holds beyond what’s in the base. 

With you on 4. Throwing holds at a schedule gets crews in the right place and makes OTP look good. That’s it. Merges still get out of whack, app predictions from the supplemented GTFS are still of no value, etc. It’s really, really sloppy work that’s taken the agency by storm over the past few years. 

3 Is a comparison of the baseline schedule, pre-QB work baseline schedule and the applicable supplement so it isn't a precise number based on downtown run time. 

While I understand that there are a lot of compromises (even outwardly disagreeable ones) there are some very interesting things in the base schedule now that I'm staring at it. For example, the the 1752.5 arrival turns for the 1806 train, the 1800 arrival turns for the 1815 arrival, and the 1803 arrival comes in and lays up. One wonders what sorcery they are using to platform a 3rd train with both pockets full. I find things like this discouraging. 

Edited by Jsunflyguy
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Jsunflyguy said:

3 Is a comparison of the baseline schedule, pre-QB work baseline schedule and the applicable supplement so it isn't a precise number based on downtown run time. 

While I understand that there are a lot of compromises (even outwardly disagreable ones) there are some very interesting things in the base schedule now that I'm staring at it. For example, the the 1752.5 arrival turns for the 1806 train, the 1800 arrival turns for the 1815 arrival, and the 1803 arrival comes in and lays up. One wonders what sorcery they are using to platform a 3rd train with both pockets full. I find things like this discouraging. 

Schedules has been a mess lately. They fully forgot to schedule (in the base!) any local service on Queens Boulevard for a half hour period on weeknights, as they neglected to compensate for (M) to 96. They also seem to have made a habit of scheduling overnight service on trunks where inter-service transfers aren’t all that essential (Lex, for example) pairwise, so you have a 2 or 4 minute headway, and then a 16 or 18 min one. You know it’s bad when on time service is this disastrous. 

Edited by RR503
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Does anyone have any details about the Queens Blvd shutdowns when they used to do it due to the 63 St connector work before 2001?

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4 minutes ago, j express said:

Does anyone have any details about the Queens Blvd shutdowns when they used to do it due to the 63 St connector work before 2001?

There were a lot of Es via the R to Whitehall. I have some brochures for many of the early 2000s changes. Just a general piece of advice, but for questions like this, you would get a quicker response and a more thorough answer on subchat. From January-December 2001, during off hours E F and R trains ran via 63rd.

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Posted (edited)

For July as of now:

(1) No service between 96 St and 242 St: July 5-8

(1) No service between 96 St and 145 St: July 12-15

(1) No service between 96 St and 137 St; Operates to Harlem-148 St to supplement the (3) : July 19-22

(2) Reduced service: July 6-7, 13-14

(2) No service between Franklin Av and Flatbush Av: July 12-15

(3) Service is suspended: July 19-22

(4)(5)(6) All Downtown is express from 125 St to 14 St: July 6-8, 13-15

(4) Extended to New Lots Av all weekend to supplement the (3): July 19-22

(5) Reduced service: July 6-7, 13-14

(5) No service between Dyre Av and East 180 St: July 12-15, 19-22

(6) Reduced service north of 3 Av-138 St: July 6-7, 20-21

(6) Extended to Bowling Green: July 5-8, 12-15

(7) Manhattan-bound service is express in Queens: July 13-14, 20-21

(A)(C) All Downtown service is express from 125 St to Canal St: July 5-8, 19-22

(A)(C) Reduced service: July 6-7, 13-14, 20-21

(D)(N)(R) All Manhattan-bound service is express in Brooklyn and skips DeKalb Av: July 19-22

(D) No service between Bedford Park Blvd and 205 St: July 5-8

(D) Reduced service: July 6-7, 20-21

(E) Operates to 179 St; No service to Jamaica Center: July 5-8

(E)(R) Outbound service is express in Queens: July 6-8

(E)(F) Service is local in Queens: July 13-15, 20-22

(N) Manhattan-bound service runs via Montague tunnel: July 5-8

(N) Reduced service: July 6-7, 13-14, 20-21

(N) Operates via West End, Coney Island-bound service is local in Brooklyn: July 5-8

(N) No service between Ditmars Blvd and Queensboro Plaza: July 13-14, 20-21, 27-28

(Q) Reduced service: July 6-7, 13-14

(Q) Manhattan-bound service runs via Montague tunnel: July 5-8, 19-22

(R) No late night service between Whitehall St and 36 St: July 12-15

(R) No service between 36 St and 95 St; No late night service: July 19-22

Edited by S78 via Hylan
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When the (6) operates to Bowling Green, is it to replace the (5) or because work is being done in City Hall loop?

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59 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

When the (6) operates to Bowling Green, is it to replace the (5) or because work is being done in City Hall loop?

The latter.

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Not exactly a planned service change, but more like an end to one: barring any last-minute changes/delays, Coney Island-bound (N) trains should resume normal local service from 8th Avenue to Bay Parkway about a week from now, since the rehabilitation notice has not been listed for July 2nd (Tuesday) and onward. I had noticed its disappearance since the weekend of June 7-10 (last time (D) trains ran express on Sea Beach line), so I think it is pretty safe to say that the stations would reopen on that date.

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I’m not so sure about that . On weekend of July 5 N trains run via D and in that entry it says the stations are closed.

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I wouldn't put any stock into that. That footnote reminder is useless information for that service change, since the (N) will run on the (D) in both directions. It is likely there due to human error; the person in charge might have copied the information off of somewhere and—unaware of where it will go—forgot to omit that part. 

Also, consider that:

  • The main information (aka the title) for the July 5-8 service change is a rerouting, while the station rehabilitation service change explicitly states station closures. The former is also short in duration and intermittent, while the latter is around the clock and thus must be listed every single day. The disappearance of the latter for practically the entire month is a very strong indicator of a reopening date, compared to a 3-day listing of the former with a useless reminder that supposedly might prove otherwise.
  • While the reasoning for the former service change is labeled "station rehabilitation," this does not mean that the stations will remain closed; it is not unusual for the MTA to reopen stations to the public even when construction work is not fully completed.

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11 hours ago, Gong Gahou said:

Not exactly a planned service change, but more like an end to one: barring any last-minute changes/delays, Coney Island-bound (N) trains should resume normal local service from 8th Avenue to Bay Parkway about a week from now, since the rehabilitation notice has not been listed for July 2nd (Tuesday) and onward. I had noticed its disappearance since the weekend of June 7-10 (last time (D) trains ran express on Sea Beach line), so I think it is pretty safe to say that the stations would reopen on that date.

It also says nothing about the status of the Sunset Park GO, unfortunately

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Planned service changes for the last weekend in July

TRACK MAINTENANCE

Jul 26 - 29, 11:30 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(1) Service between 96 St and 137 St in Manhattan is replaced by (A)(C) trains and free shuttle buses

STATION REHABILITATION
Jul 26 - 29, 11:30 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(2) Service between Franklin Av and Flatbush Av in Brooklyn is replaced by free shuttle buses

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 26 - 29, 11:30 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(3) Service is replaced by (1)(2)(4)trains and free shuttle buses

ALTERNATE SERVICE

Jul 26 - 29, 11:30 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(4) Trains replace the (3) between Atlantic Av-Barclays Ctr and New Lots Av in Brooklyn

SIGNAL MAINTENANCE
Jul 27, Saturday, 5:45 AM to 4 PM
(7) Flushing-bound trains skip 33, 40, 46, 52, 69, 82, 90, 103 and 111 Sts in Queens

SIGNAL IMPROVEMENTS
Jul 26 - 29, 10 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(A) Inwood-bound trains run local from Euclid Av to Hoyt-Schermerhorn in Brooklyn

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 27, Saturday
(A) Trains run every 10 minutes between 207 St and Rockaway Blvd during the day and early evening

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 27 - 28, Saturday & Sunday
(C) Trains run approximately every 12 minutes

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 27 - 28, Saturday & Sunday
(C) Downtown trains skip 163, 155, 135, 116, 110, 96, 86, 81 and 72 Sts in Manhattan

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 27 - 28, Saturday & Sunday
(D) Trains run approximately every 12 minutes, days and evenings

SIGNAL MODERNIZATION
Jul 26 - 29, 9:45 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(E) Trains run via the (F) in both directions between W 4 St, Manhattan and 21 St-Queensbridge Station, Queens

(E) and (F) service is also local in Queens during this time

TRACK REPLACEMENT
Jul 26 - 29, 11 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
(N) Coney Island-bound trains run via the (R) from Canal St, Manhattan to Atlantic Av-Barclays Ctr, Brooklyn

TRACK REPLACEMENT
Jul 26 - 29, 11 PM Fri to 5 AM Mon
Coney Island-bound (Q) trains run via the (R) from Canal St, Manhattan to DeKalb Av, Brooklyn

TRACK MAINTENANCE
Jul 27 - 28, 5:45 AM Sat to 10 PM Sun

Coney Island-bound (Q) trains run express from Prospect Park to Kings Hwy in Brooklyn
 

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Lexington Avenue does not have any G.O's this weekend? Interesting.

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Posted (edited)

All pages subway time and MYmta now show arrival times for the downtown platforms on Sea Beach  but they still haven’t made an announcement (unless it’s on Twitter)

Edited by Abba

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It is listed on the Planned Service Changes, though.

Quote

SERVICE RESTORED
Effective 5 AM Monday, Jul 1
(N) Coney Island-bound service restored at Fort Hamilton Pkwy, New Utrecht Av, 18 Av and 20 Av in Brooklyn
(N) trains stop at Fort Hamilton Pkwy, New Utrecht Av, 18 Av and 20 Av in both directions.

 

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Does anyone know when the N will run express again from 59-36 in Brooklyn ?

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37 minutes ago, Abba said:

Does anyone know when the N will run express again from 59-36 in Brooklyn ?

When the work is finished...

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