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Queens' Transit Troubles


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Not every neighborhood needs subway service, nor does every area want it. We have the Second Avenue subway as proof... <_< Light rails are another possibility but quite frankly some areas would be just fine with improved, speedier bus service (i.e. more limited stop service) and MORE artics.

 

 

The SAS is one of the most needed pieces of infrastructure in the city.

 

That took 4 years, that's another 4 years in which things will only get worse.

 

 

It's a lot faster than building a whole new line.

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Um, if you didn't realize, most of Phase 2 is already constructed from the 70's, and we can apply for federal funds for Phase 3....

 

 

Yeah but even so this is only ONE subway line. We're talking about Queens and how much it would cost to extend some of the subways. If you want to argue in the long term that the extension is good then fine, but we're talking about short term. Folks in Queens need relief NOW and the subway extension won't do them any good for YEARS to come if anything were to happen.

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Yeah but even say this is only ONE subway line. We're talking about Queens and how much it would cost to extend some of the subways. If you want to argue in the long term that the extension is good then fine, but we're talking about short term. Folks in Queens need relief NOW and the subway extension won't do them any good for YEARS to come if anything were to happen.

 

 

Well, do you have a better idea? This is stuff that should have been built in the 40's which they failed to build. We have to now correct the IND's mistakes.

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Yeah but even so this the SAS is only ONE subway line. No one is denying that it is needed. The question still remains will it get completed and where will the funding come from. As for getting federal funding, sure, keep running up billions in debt that we don't have... Why not??

 

Anywho, we're talking about Queens and how much it would cost to extend some of the subways. If you want to argue in the long term that the extension is good then fine, but we're talking about short term. Folks in Queens need relief NOW and the subway extension won't do them any good for YEARS to come if anything were to happen.

 

 

Given that the ROW already exists, it won't take that long at all. A few years at most. The only tunneling needed is from Jamaica/Parsons-Archer (E) station (who came up with that name?) to the LIRR ROW. Then it's just replacing the signal and power systems, and slightly modifying the stations.

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Well, do you have a better idea? This is stuff that should have been built in the 40's which they failed to build. We have to now correct the IND's mistakes.

 

 

And guess why things weren't built?? Lack of money for starters... Hey listen rail service IS needed in some places, but let's not go crazy here. In the short term the idea for Queens IMO should be to use existing structures and make them work for rail service and improve bus service. We are drowing in debt as a country and we are not in a position to be building subways all over the place. They don't pay for themselves you know.

 

Given that the ROW already exists, it won't take that long at all. A few years at most. The only tunneling needed is from Jamaica/Parsons-Archer (E) station (who came up with that name?) to the LIRR ROW. Then it's just replacing the signal and power systems, and slightly modifying the stations.

 

 

Now that's reasonable, but still the funding would have to be created and I'm also certain that it would be over budget (it is the MTA afterall), but still that's cheaper than other alternatives. However, that still doesn't change my belief. A strong local bus AND subway system could enhance intra-borough travel in Queens, but it needs to be done with cost in mind.

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And guess why things weren't built?? Lack of money for starters... Hey listen rail service IS needed in some places, but let's not go crazy here. In the short term the idea for Queens IMO should be to use existing structures and make them work for rail service and improve bus service. We are drowing in debt as a country and we are not in a position to be building subways all over the place. They don't pay for themselves you know.

 

 

In case you didn't realize, there are 15 million people using buses who probably would not hesitate to use a new subway. It WILL pay for itself. As for money, there are a number of low cost alternatives, such as LIGHT RAIL.

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In case you didn't realize, there are 15 million people using buses who probably would not hesitate to use a new subway. It WILL pay for itself. As for money, there are a number of low cost alternatives, such as LIGHT RAIL.

 

 

Yes, over time, but we don't have billions just floating around these days you know. That's the point. The money would have to come from somewhere in advance.

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In case you didn't realize, there are 15 million people using buses who probably would not hesitate to use a new subway. It WILL pay for itself. As for money, there are a number of low cost alternatives, such as LIGHT RAIL.

 

 

I think there are only a few areas where you could realistically run light rail. The problem is that the current system isn't compatible with light rail, so we'd end up with a broken system (You're not going to get a one-seat ride to Manhattan on light rail. You'd still have to transfer at Jamaica, whereas a subway extension wouldn't require a transfer)

 

In any case, the thing he keeps on forgetting is that the longer we wait, the more costs will go up. If we built the SAS back in the 1930s, it would've cost something like $86 million. Now that we've waited 80 years, we're spending $17 billion for the same line.

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I think there are only a few areas where you could realistically run light rail. The problem is that the current system isn't compatible with light rail, so we'd end up with a broken system (You're not going to get a one-seat ride to Manhattan on light rail. You'd still have to transfer at Jamaica, whereas a subway extension wouldn't require a transfer)

 

In any case, the thing he keeps on forgetting is that the longer we wait, the more costs will go up. If we built the SAS back in the 1930s, it would've cost something like $86 million. Now that we've waited 80 years, we're spending $17 billion for the same line.

 

That also. If we wait, an Extention would cost a bigass amount of money. Some ideas were also shot down by Robert Moses, who was anti-transit. Now a whole lot of people use transit and something needs to be done. Think about it, why do most of the bus routes in SE queens have limited stop/express service (NICE) / etc. The reason is because a damn subway isn't near. If the subway was nearer think on how many commuters would have to take less time or how many new commuters can rely on new service options. Spme thing people forget Is that the subways are more reliable than most modes of travel and service extentions can lead to service improvements. The MTA would probably not even be in a big defect as it orginally was in if all those lines were orginally built

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That also. If we wait, an Extention would cost a bigass amount of money. Some ideas were also shot down by Robert Moses, who was anti-transit. Now a whole lot of people use transit and something needs to be done. Think about it, why do most of the bus routes in SE queens have limited stop/express service (NICE) / etc. The reason is because a damn subway isn't near. If the subway was nearer think on how many commuters would have to take less time or how many new commuters can rely on new service options. Spme thing people forget Is that the subways are more reliable than most modes of travel and service extentions can lead to service improvements. The MTA would probably not even be in a big defect as it orginally was in if all those lines were orginally built

 

 

Should've... Could've.... In the here and now, where does this money come from? That's the question that no one is answering... We're in a recession with millions out of work, not to mention the deficit this country is in. Extending subways should be a long term solution looked at when the economy improves, but not now.

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The (E) to Laurelton will get most of it's riders from people who currently have to walk either to Conduit Avenue to take the Q85, or Merrick Blvd to take the Q5. The (E) can also feed off of the Q3, Q111,and Q113 up until Jamaica Parsons Archer. Some N4 riders will get off as early as Laurelton to take the (E).

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If we have an unemployment problem (which we do, and a huge one at that), shovel ready projects should be promoted. This is (almost) a shovel-ready project.

 

 

Yeah well what happened to all of the other shovel ready construction projects that went bust? If we're going to spend the money for this, the monies MUST be allocated for this and just not sit there or be used for something else.

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to give my 2 cents on the idea of the Q35 extention, I actually believe that could work along with keeping it on Newport Ave. It can help out the 22s crowding between 116 and arverne which is about half cause by q35 riders getting on at 149(if the 22 is at roxbury) or 116. It will give Arverne residents access to the IRT in Brooklyn without a third swipe/dip in one direction. The ridership is indeed there. Regular ridership and especially just before the start 22 service and just after the end of it. And overnights it eliminates the need to catch the Shuttle train to BC. Just change from the 35 at 67th st.

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@Shortline Bus... I thought I clarified myself earlier on in this thread. A lot of Eastern Queens has a suburban feel and is less densely populated and thus the biggest bang for the buck would be to extend or create new bus routes. Unfortunately, IMO, a lot of Queens is set up like Staten Island in terms of intra-borough travel which means that commuting within the borough can be downright painful. The quickest way to alleviate some problems is to improve local bus service in Queens and have more buses acting as connectors. Down the road, perhaps subway extensions can be made, though quite frankly I think it's a terrible idea as it would be costly and extensive and destroy the character of some areas. Not every neighborhood needs subway service, nor does every area want it. We have the Second Avenue subway as proof... <_< Light rails are another possibility but quite frankly some areas would be just fine with improved, speedier bus service (i.e. more limited stop service) and MORE artics.

 

 

Queens is not Staten Island. As you see in the population density map provided by this link eastern Queens is not Staten Island:

http://static.flickr.com/71/223187221_d959509d3b_o.jpg

 

Yeah but even so this is only ONE subway line. We're talking about Queens and how much it would cost to extend some of the subways. If you want to argue in the long term that the extension is good then fine, but we're talking about short term. Folks in Queens need relief NOW and the subway extension won't do them any good for YEARS to come if anything were to happen.

 

 

Maybe Select Bus Service can serve as a stopgap until they have a subway?

 

Should've... Could've.... In the here and now, where does this money come from? That's the question that no one is answering... We're in a recession with millions out of work, not to mention the deficit this country is in. Extending subways should be a long term solution looked at when the economy improves, but not now.

 

 

Infastructure projects actually provide jobs needed to get people working again. Whether it's the interstate system building in the 50's and 60's or the projects back during the depression, this can be an opportunity to improve NYC's infastructure.

 

Where does the money come from? Tax increases, of course, but no one wants to pay more taxes.

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Queens is not Staten Island. As you see in the population density map provided by this link eastern Queens is not Staten Island:

http://static.flickr...959509d3b_o.jpg

Well we know that the population of Queens is larger than Staten Island. The point is that your bus network in Queens sucks very much like Staten Island. If you want to dispute that then go on ahead, but having traveled in Queens on a number of occasions, quite frankly it reminded me very much of what a PITA it is to get around using local buses on Staten Island, having to take three buses to get to my destination. The fact that just about every borough besides Queens has or is getting Select-Bus-Service further illustrates this point.

 

Maybe Select Bus Service can serve as a stopgap until they have a subway?

Until monies can be gathered for subway projects, the focus should be on improving bus service to function more as a network and become faster and more reliable as well. Select-Bus-Service in Queens IMO is a must.

 

Infastructure projects actually provide jobs needed to get people working again. Whether it's the interstate system building in the 50's and 60's or the projects back during the depression, this can be an opportunity to improve NYC's infastructure.

Yeah yeah yeah... Spare me that tired line... My point is we were supposed to have shovel ready construction projects GOING now when the last "stimulus" came out and nothing happened aside from hot air being tossed around. Some of that money still hasn't been spent which was earmarked for various projects some time ago. <_<

 

Where does the money come from? Tax increases, of course, but no one wants to pay more taxes.

 

Yeah well I'm sure you don't pay taxes otherwise you would understand that raising taxes hurts everyone... This is not the time to be raising taxes, especially with so many people already unemployed and a fragile economy. We need low taxes and if anything lower taxes to help stimulate small businesses (the core of the folks that do hiring in this country as opposed to the MTA's of the world) to hire so that we have MORE people with jobs that can earn a paycheck and contribute to the overall tax base. The answer certainly isn't to overburden the few who have jobs or businesses and make them pay more in taxes.

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Maybe Select Bus Service can serve as a stopgap until they have a subway?

 

 

See, this is what he doesn't understand. Obviously nobody expects to get a subway line down there in the short-term, but he keeps harping on it like we want the line built tomorrow. Yeah, buses should be used as a stopgap, but he keeps on trying to make it out to be a long-term solution.

 

As for his comment about taxes (he's ignoring me, so you might want to pass it on), these types of projects employ tons of people, and the economic benefit produced after the job is complete will make up for the lost tax revenue. Property values go up, the area becomes attractive to businesses and developers and so on.

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Southeast Queens don't need a subway. It already has buses and dollar vans serving every single corridor of that area, and they'll get people to Jamaica faster than a (E) that terminates at Springfield Gardens.

 

 

your joking right........ Dollar vans are so dangerous, i would never risk my life getting in one of those and have you taken any of the Merrick routes? They take a while depending on where you are going.. If the (E) went to springfield gardens, i would get home from Jamaica in 15 minutes instead of 35 or 40

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your joking right........ Dollar vans are so dangerous, i would never risk my life getting in one of those and have you taken any of the Merrick routes? They take a while depending on where you are going.. If the (E) went to springfield gardens, i would get home from Jamaica in 15 minutes instead of 35 or 40

 

 

Nope. Dollar vans and buses are how people get from Point A to Point B in Southeast Queens. If you don't like that then take a cab. So, until the (E) gets extended to Laurelton, you're pretty much going to have to suck it up and walk all the way to Merrick Blvd to catch a Q5 just like everyone else.

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Nope. Dollar vans and buses are how people get from Point A to Point B in Southeast Queens. If you don't like that then take a cab. So, until the (E) gets extended to Laurelton, you're pretty much going to have to suck it up and walk all the way to Merrick Blvd to catch a Q5 just like everyone else.

 

 

Uhhh I live in SE Queens, I see dollar vans everyday, I never see much peeps on them actually... And I live near the Q85.. why the hell would I walk to merrick for that ghetto Q5 bus ? -___-

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Uhhh I live in SE Queens, I see dollar vans everyday, I never see much peeps on them actually... And I live near the Q85.. why the hell would I walk to merrick for that ghetto Q5 bus ? -___-

 

 

Dollar Vans make their money by feeding off of major bus routes in Southeast Queens. They pick up customers who are tired of waiting for a Q111, or a Q5, and want to get to Jamaica fast. Don't underestimate the power of the dollar vans, they're the reason why the Q5 and Q85 goes to Green Acres.

What I said also applies to the Q85. You're pretty much going to have to walk to the nearest stop until the MTA decides to extend the (E) to Laurelton.

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Well we know that the population of Queens is larger than Staten Island. The point is that your bus network in Queens sucks very much like Staten Island. If you want to dispute that then go on ahead, but having traveled in Queens on a number of occasions, quite frankly it reminded me very much of what a PITA it is to get around using local buses on Staten Island, having to take three buses to get to my destination. The fact that just about every borough besides Queens has or is getting Select-Bus-Service further illustrates this point.

 

 

Until monies can be gathered for subway projects, the focus should be on improving bus service to function more as a network and become faster and more reliable as well. Select-Bus-Service in Queens IMO is a must.

 

 

See, this is what he doesn't understand. Obviously nobody expects to get a subway line down there in the short-term, but he keeps harping on it like we want the line built tomorrow. Yeah, buses should be used as a stopgap, but he keeps on trying to make it out to be a long-term solution.

 

 

Both of you raise excellent points. While both of you disagree on the long-term solution, we do agree that the lack of SBS in eastern Queens is a huge hole in the (MTA) system, until there is something better. In some ways Staten Island is ahead bus-wise because at least they'll get SBS. What's even worse is that eastern Queens has a higher population density than Staten Island (St. George notwithstanding). In a way the dollar vans are a stopgap but not a long-term solution for viable transit in southeastern Queens.

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- Regardless if it's a combination of some other route or a lone simple extension of it, with as faulty as service is on that route, I don't think the Q35 should be extended anywhere.... I shouldn't have to stand on the corner of B 116th/newport & see 3 buses arriving w/i 5-10 minutes of each other & watch 2 of them go OOS while having to wait another 15 mins or so for the next one going back to Brooklyn..... I get the whole wanting to eliminate that xfer scenario that currently goes on over there b/w the 35 & the 22 on B 149th for riders heading towards arverne or w/e, but they need to fix the way service is on that route first.....

 

- There absolutely is a need for subway service in eastern Queens (SE & NE)... Jamaica & Flushing wouldn't be the madhouses that they are, otherwise..... I mean, people are fed up with 30+ min bus rides just to get to a subway that takes another 30-40 mins to get to where ever in manhattan they're tryna get to.....

You shouldn't have people coming from as far out as Far Rockaway (on the 113) riding to jamaica to catch an E or a J train b/c they don't wanna be bothered w/ the A & the slow crawl going through jamaica bay & brooklyn to get to manhattan..... That, and waits for the E out of Jamaica ctr. are less than that for the A out of Far rockaway on most occasions.... Over years, those folks have come to realize this stuff..... We may be enthusiasts on here, but the common everyday rider isn't ill-perceptive when it comes to their commute either..... Something is terribly wrong when you have folks that don't want to use subway service in their own backyard !

(I'm not even factoring in the whole "safety" factor around the Mott av station of whatever, either)

 

- the dollar vans are the reason the Q5 & Q85 go to green acres.... really ???

That's like saying the dollar vans are the reason the B41 & B46 go to kings plaza.... laughable stuff man.......

 

Now I could have sworn it was the other way around... the MTA doesn't provide service to take money away from dollar van drivers.... The MTA doesn't adjust their fares to keep up w/ the dollar van fares..... So who's really structuring things off who here.......

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Does SBS have a place in Queens? The Q5 got rejected several years back because of parking concerns on Merrick Blvd, so that pretty much rules out all the Merrick Blvd routes, and there's nothing about the Q43 so far, even though it was tapped as the second "Phase II" route. [usurped by the M60, I guess.]

 

Although, if either of these routes actually get SBS, what span of time do you think they'd run for? It's doubtful the MTA wants to spend $$$ converting peak rush hour Limiteds into all day every day services (although SBS did give Sunday service that the Bx12 Limited never had)

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