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BM5 via Woodhaven

Queens' Transit Troubles

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The topic says QUEENS, not Southeast Queens. The point is to address the entire borough, not just portions of it. There isn't just one solution... Multiple solutions are needed and your lovely subway extensions don't fulfill everyone's needs either.

 

 

Well the biggest problem is SOUTHEAST Queens, and that's what I'm trying to adress. If you want to adress another part of the borough then say so.

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Well the biggest problem is SOUTHEAST Queens, and that's what I'm trying to adress. If you want to adress another part of the borough then say so.

 

 

I thought I've been pretty clear in saying that transportation in the entire borough sucks IMO, not just South East Queens.

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I thought I've been pretty clear in saying that transportation in the entire borough sucks IMO, not just South East Queens.

 

 

Well you've made no concrete proposal on how to fix this, you've said express bus this, ferry that...

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Well the biggest problem is SOUTHEAST Queens, and that's what I'm trying to adress. If you want to adress another part of the borough then say so.

 

 

How will an extension of the E, or the F to Southeast Queens affect Nassau County? Will people on board the N22 get off as early as Commonwealth Blvd to take the F, or will they stay on the bus and take the train at 179th Street?

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How will an extension of the E, or the F to Southeast Queens affect Nassau County? Will people on board the N22 get off as early as Commonwealth Blvd to take the F, or will they stay on the bus and take the train at 179th Street?

 

 

That's their choice, the (R) would also be extended to 179th to supplement the (F), if they choose to ride it out from 243th Street station then they can.

Edited by Threxx

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y

Well you've made no concrete proposal on how to fix this, you've said express bus this, ferry that...

 

 

Well I don't need to make concrete proposals here because I'm working on stuff on the side that I'm keeping private and when I feel like my questions have been answered then I'll decide how to proceed with those things. It is great to have concrete ideas but not so great if there is no funding to pay for them. My ideas however are much more reasonable and feasible given the current economic climate. None of your ideas would happen simultaneously, I can tell you that much, so it is best to work on one idea and go from there.... Baby steps if you will. The ideas that I have is to actually get them implemented by the (MTA), which is not an easy task.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Well I don't need to make concrete proposals here because I'm working on stuff on the side that I'm keeping private and when I feel like my questions have been answered then I'll decide how to proceed with those things. It is great to have concrete ideas but not so great if there is no funding to pay for them. My ideas however are much more reasonable and feasible given the current economic climate. None of your ideas would happen simultaneously, I can tell that much, so it is best to work on one idea and go from there.... Baby steps if you will.

 

 

Well shoot rather than thumping your chest everywhere saying "That won't work" or "That's too expensive".

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Well shoot rather than thumping your chest everywhere saying "That won't work" or "That's too expensive".

 

 

I've already thrown out some out ideas. I speak from experience because I know how the (MTA) operates. If anything if you're really for this whole subway extension, pick one line that would get the biggest bang for the buck and go with it because all of those extensions would not realistically happen. Simply too expensive.

 

The more realistic things that COULD happen:

 

-Restructuring of LIRR fares

-Implementation of SBS service (pick one or two routes max)

-Extension or restructuring of some local bus routes

-Restoration of some local buses and express buses

 

Now these are things that could realistically happen above.

 

Another question I have is are there any new bus routes proposed for Queens by the (MTA)?

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Nope, which is a fail on their part, a restoration and extension of the Q89 to Rockaway Blvd could prove to be high-ridership.

 

As for SBS, the routes that need it the most in order:

 

Q44

Q113

Q5

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Nope, which is a fail on their part, a restoration and extension of the Q89 to Rockaway Blvd could prove to be high-ridership.

 

As for SBS, the routes that need it the most in order:

 

Q44

Q113

Q5

 

 

The residents would be against SBS service along the Q5 and Q113.

Edited by NY1635

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People living on Guy Brewer and 147th would oppose Q113 SBS.

 

 

Well the MTA is looking into it still...

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Well the MTA is looking into it still...

 

 

You also have Nassau County to deal with. NIMBY's would be against SBS service along the Nassau Expressway and Central Avenue.

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Bus lanes would be nice. My trip which was entirely within Eastern Queens and was basically an hour and a half (& upwards of 2 hours on occasion) ride in a damn stairwell, it's ridiculous and beyond draining, especially knowing it's a 25-ish minute drive. I don't even use public transportation anymore (except the LIRR once in a while), I can't take it.

 

It's funny to see people with subway access & these short little commutes complain, I'm not saying they don't have a right to but I'd gladly trade commutes.

 

I kind of wish the Q5 SBS was never cancelled, it wouldnt be of use to me but I know I'm not the only one that had/has a daily commute that's equivalent to a ride to Philly (or Delaware on a bad day) and back. It was needed. Staten Island & Eastern Queens commuters will always have my sympathy.

Edited by Infamous85

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@Shortline Bus... I thought I clarified myself earlier on in this thread. A lot of Eastern Queens has a suburban feel and is less densely populated and thus the biggest bang for the buck would be to extend or create new bus routes. Unfortunately, IMO, a lot of Queens is set up like Staten Island in terms of intra-borough travel which means that commuting within the borough can be downright painful. The quickest way to alleviate some problems is to improve local bus service in Queens and have more buses acting as connectors. Down the road, perhaps subway extensions can be made, though quite frankly I think it's a terrible idea as it would be costly and extensive and destroy the character of some areas. Not every neighborhood needs subway service, nor does every area want it. We have the Second Avenue subway as proof... <_< Light rails are another possibility but quite frankly some areas would be just fine with improved, speedier bus service (i.e. more limited stop service) and MORE artics.

 

 

You would've been livid if you were alive for construction of the (7), because parts of the route had more sheep than people when they built it.

Edited by Q10 Airport

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VG8 fast ferry service is not helpful if you live in Hollis, Springfield Gardens and other areas in SE Queens. Maybe for Little Neck/Douglaston since they live near the east river. And also not everyone is going to Manhattan. Thus a combo IMO of short turn more LIRR service, more SBS service and down the road 'light rail' and maybe an (E) train extension makes the most sense.

 

 

Maybe they could extend the (E) down LIRR local tracks? Would that put too much of a strain on the LIRR express tracks? If the answer is no maybe this extension would be relatively cheap.

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Does SBS have a place in Queens? The Q5 got rejected several years back because of parking concerns on Merrick Blvd, so that pretty much rules out all the Merrick Blvd routes, and there's nothing about the Q43 so far, even though it was tapped as the second "Phase II" route. [usurped by the M60, I guess.]

 

Although, if either of these routes actually get SBS, what span of time do you think they'd run for? It's doubtful the MTA wants to spend $$$ converting peak rush hour Limiteds into all day every day services (although SBS did give Sunday service that the Bx12 Limited never had)

 

 

They could try cutting into the local service a little bit to create the +SBS+ service. You'd probably end up with something like the S79 (even though it shouldn't be called +SBS+, but I digress....) Local service every 15 minutes and +SBS+ service every 10 or so wouldn't be too bad.

 

I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say both of you because I've blocked some rather obnoxious individuals,

 

 

You're one to talk. <_< I would add another comment, but I already said it in the chatbox a while back, so there's no need to say it again.

 

Wonders if Threxx has at $1 Trillion bucks(i am serious) on the extensions? The (F) would under his plan be way over 2 hour trip between CI and further into Queens.

 

 

The SAS is projected to cost $17 billion and it involves tunneling through bedrock. How the hell could a couple of extensions cost $1 trillion??

 

The Q43 takes 20 minutes (according to the schedule) to get from the city line to 179th Street. An (F) extension would take 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes tops (and it doesn't even have to go all the way out to the city line. You could end it at Springfield Blvd and save even more time). The N22 takes 12 minutes to make that trip, so a 10 minutes of extra travel time is fine.

 

In any case, I assume the Merrick Blvd route is an alternative to the Laurelton Branch route (he wouldn't build them both). For the (J)(Z) extension, I'm not sure if it's the best possible route, but I do see what he's trying to accomplish (the (F) covers the areas north of the Main Line, the (E) covers the areas by Guy R Brewer Blvd & Merrick Blvd, and the (J)(Z) cover the areas in between). Of course, you'd still have some people needing to take a bus to the subway, but it would be a 5-10 minute ride instead of a 30-40 minute ride.

 

No, it's that ramming subways down people's throats aren't solutions necessarily. One issue you keep forgetting is that the current subways in Queens take FOREVER so if anything instead of just extending these lines, some more express service should be given to the lines being proposed to speed up the commute otherwise. The (7) and (E) are already crowded enough, so certainly just extending these lines aren't enough. Queens needs alternatives, and not just people being crammed on subways, otherwise you'll have another (L) line on your hands. Overcrowded and at capacity with no other options in sight... Grand idea right?

 

Another idea is to have fast ferry service for some areas of Queens like they currently have in parts of Williamsburg. The service has done much better than expected and has taken off quite nicely, even with the higher fare.

 

This love affair with subway service isn't the solution either, as if subways are the be all end all of everything.

 

 

The (E) & (F) already have express service. The (7) unfortunately was only built with 3 tracks, but if you really wanted to, you could probably add a 4th track on an upper level or something.

 

As for capacity issues, this is NYC. We're used to crowded subways, and in any case, most of those passengers are going to ride anyway. So instead of 10,000 riders taking the Q5 to the (E), they'll be on the (E) already (of course, there will be plenty who stick with the Q5 for other reasons, but I'm giving an example)

 

I strongly believe that improved local bus and express bus service MUST BE explored and I am currently looking at some express bus routes to see what can be done in terms of restoring them.

 

 

Yeah, in the short-term.

 

Aside from that, the only express routes Queens lost were the QM22 & QM23, and they were only a couple of trips in areas that had a bunch of options. But if you want to waste your time, by all means do so.

 

If anything (and that would be 15-20 years from now at the earliest)the only realstic subway line i can see being extended is the (E). Plus for areas like Bayside and NE Queens, a better bang for the buck to expand instead of the (7) is increased Pt. Washington LIRR train service including adding a 2nd track between Pt. Washington and Great Neck for improved service. LIRR within Queens is much cheaper and should be explored more since the LIRR extension to Grand central is planned to open in 5-6 years.

 

And again i stand by my earlier suggestion for a light rail bulit in Queens and other outerboro areas. If you look across North America (US and Canada)many light rail dont go to downtown corrdiors(which in NYC is either Midtown or Lower Manhattan)so someone like checkmate needs to be more open minded.

 

 

If Bayside is an issue, send it somewhere else. Send it up to College Point or have it make its way down to the LIE or something.

 

As for the light rail comment, I didn't say light rail can't work anywhere. I'm just saying that you shouldn't say "Oh, don't send the (E) to SE Queens, just send a light rail". A corridor like Union Turnpike or something could work fine with light rail.

 

In fact, if I hate light rail so much, why would I put it into a fantasy map, huh? Here it is: https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=214504384267441423605.0004bfcc0bfb4ffc05732&msa=0&ll=40.596749,-74.106216&spn=0.270593,0.676346 A line going down the Belt Parkway. The AirTrain could also be extended up the Q44 route or something. (Personally, I think it should just have a POP system and charge a regular fare all around, instead of charging extra to reach the airport)

 

And it was updated May 12th, so I didn't just put it up to prove a point.

 

Geez, if it's not one person misinterpreting my posts, it's another. <_<

 

I wouldn't change the base fare but I would consider restructuring monthly passes for example to make them more appealing.

 

 

Says the same person who doesn't want LIRR passes valid on anything else. <_<

 

VG8 fast ferry service is not helpful if you live in Hollis, Springfield Gardens and other areas in SE Queens. Maybe for Little Neck/Douglaston since they live near the east river. And also not everyone is going to Manhattan. Thus a combo IMO of short turn more LIRR service, more SBS service and down the road 'light rail' and maybe an (E) train extension makes the most sense.

 

 

Little Neck/Douglaston are near the LI Sound, not East River.

 

-Restructuring of LIRR fares

-Implementation of SBS service (pick one or two routes max)

-Extension or restructuring of some local bus routes

-Restoration of some local buses and express buses

 

 

So let me get this straight: Anytime I propose an extension, it's a terrible idea just because it's an extension. Anytime you propose an extension, it's alright. I see how it works now.....

 

And yeah, it's easy to say "Extension or restructuring of some local bus routes" when you're not even giving specific examples of what you'd do. Typical..... <_<

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I think a lot of people would be against an (E) extension down LIRR tracks. It'd be a double-edged sword, the cheaper fares would be nice but the (E) is already pretty terrible & slow and it'd probably get worse and SE Queens would probably be cut off from the LIRR system which a A LOT of people do use...Manhattan isn't the only destination people go to.

 

It'd be amazing if they could share tracks but that'd never happen with those unnecessary regulations and potential fare beating, plus those narrow stations which would have to accommodate Subway & LIRR passengers at the same time.

Edited by Infamous85

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I think a lot of people would be against an (E) extension down LIRR tracks. It'd be a double-edged sword, the cheaper fares would be nice but the (E) is already pretty terrible & slow and it'd probably get worse and SE Queens would probably be cut off from the LIRR system which a A LOT of people do use...Manhattan isn't the only destination people go to.

 

It'd be amazing if they could share tracks but that'd never happen with those unnecessary regulations and potential fare beating, plus those narrow stations which would have to accommodate Subway & LIRR passengers at the same time.

 

 

The (E)'s express along Queens Blvd. It's not that slow.

 

As for the LIRR, people could always try and make their way to the St. Albans branch (Either by taking a bus, or taking the (E) to Rosedale). I mean, some people might be inconvenienced, but many more will benefit.

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I think a lot of people would be against an (E) extension down LIRR tracks. It'd be a double-edged sword, the cheaper fares would be nice but the (E) is already pretty terrible & slow and it'd probably get worse and SE Queens would probably be cut off from the LIRR system which a A LOT of people do use...Manhattan isn't the only destination people go to.

 

It'd be amazing if they could share tracks but that'd never happen with those unnecessary regulations and potential fare beating, plus those narrow stations which would have to accommodate Subway & LIRR passengers at the same time.

 

 

It's nice to see someone thinking rationally and in the world of reality...

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It's nice to see someone thinking rationally and in the world of reality...

 

 

Which is something you aren't doing..... <_< You could actually try reading my explanation, but that's too much work. It's easier to criticize. You say you're ignoring me? Then ignore every single thing related to me, including other people's responses to my posts. <_<

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It's nice to see someone thinking rationally and in the world of reality...

 

 

So anyone who's against the idea thinks realistically, according to you.

 

Is there a problem with overcrowding of buses? Yes

Is there an available ROW that has alternatives along which the LIRR can be rerouted? Yes

Given that buses are slow and more expensive per passenger moved, a subway would be much more cost-effective in this case. Those that take the LIRR can transfer to it at Jamaica.

 

A possible problem with this, however, is the existing lack of QBL capacity. This can be fixed with the QBL Bypass (also on existing LIRR ROW).

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So anyone who's against the idea thinks realistically, according to you.

 

Is there a problem with overcrowding of buses? Yes

Is there an available ROW that has alternatives along which the LIRR can be rerouted? Yes

Given that buses are slow and more expensive per passenger moved, a subway would be much more cost-effective in this case. Those that take the LIRR can transfer to it at Jamaica.

 

A possible problem with this, however, is the existing lack of QBL capacity. This can be fixed with the QBL Bypass (also on existing LIRR ROW).

 

 

That was a general statement not aimed at anyone. Take it for whatever you want to take it as. I'm just thinking along the times of what is realistic in the world of the MTA.

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I get the feeling that some of those LIRR stations over there are lightly used and I'm not sure where you'd have stops at along the (E) anyway, not to mention the astronomical cost. I'm sorry to say this but some areas of Queens are better suited without subways and the area by you is one of them.

 

Those SE Queens stations gets good usage during the rush hour. From personal observation. Weekend usage is decent....

Edited by SubBus

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I doubt it would take too long. Remember that the (A) in the Rockaways used to be an old LIRR branch.

 

Before the rehab, the (A) stations in the Rockaways were similar to the Locust Manor station......

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