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Juelz4309

6 To Co Op City..

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Ive always Wondered why it was Never Proposed to Run the 6 Train to Coop City...Pelham Bay Park is Just South of it Over the Expressways...it probably be harder to construct as an elevated but if Pelham Bay Park was an Underground Stop

It Couldve Been Extended Under and along I-95 about a Mile to One More Stop at Bartow Avenue. Such a project today would be too expensive and Logistical Nightmare probably...Just seems Kind of easier than the Original Proposal to Have the D Train run across Gun Hill...which only got to 205 St...It sucks to live in Coop city lol..no offense tho!

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Well you gotta look back at history before, not based on what you know now. As per Wiki, Cooperative City was didn't exist before the 60s, which was an amusement park area. The Interstate 95 (Bruckner/New England Thruway) was under construction till that time. While the IND Concourse I believe was originally planned to head there as apart of the IND 2nd System, which never did.

 

Might be someone better who would know, grabbing just the I95/Co-Op part off here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Op_City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruckner_Expressway

 

For today. The (6) seems suitable in ways to head to Co-op over the New England Thruway... underground, no point due to land and I95 heading there. Plus noise would generate off it if it were an EL. I don't know what the communities reaction would be for an EL. Instead you would just use the Bx12SBS & LCL/Bx23/Bx29/Q50 for access to/from Pelham Bay.

 

If the IND Concourse were to head there, it would of made sense. Back then things were different then today, and a lot of areas was still developing.

Edited by mark1447
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Well you gotta look back at history before, not based on what you know now. As per Wiki, Cooperative City was didn't exist before the 60s, which was an amusement park area. The Interstate 95 (Bruckner/New England Thruway) was under construction till that time. While the IND Concourse I believe was originally planned to head there as apart of the IND 2nd System, which never did.

 

Might be someone better who would know, grabbing just the I95/Co-Op part off here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Op_City

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruckner_Expressway

 

For today. The (6) seems suitable in ways to head to Co-op over the New England Thruway... underground, no point due to land and I95 heading there. Plus noise would generate off it if it were an EL. I don't know what the communities reaction would be for an EL. Instead you would just use the Bx12SBS & LCL/Bx23/Bx20/Q50 for access to/from Pelham Bay.

 

If the IND Concourse were to head there, it would of made sense. Back then things were different then today, and a lot of areas was still developing.

 

Not only that but it would stop the constant discussion of limited stop service of Gun Hill Road as the (D) would be a limited Bx28

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I wonder also if the fact that Co-op City was marshland... Not sure how you could run a train underground... It would have to be elevated, but even so I believe I read somewhere about the foundation sinking in Co-op City... :ph34r:

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I wonder also if the fact that Co-op City was marshland... Not sure how you could run a train underground... It would have to be elevated, but even so I believe I read somewhere about the foundation sinking in Co-op City... :ph34r:

 

You really can't build a portal or ramp so that it can go underground. And second of all, you'd have to make a sharp curve after Pelham Bay Park if it were to be elevated. Not to mention the construction would affect traffic on the I-95. Moreover that area I can say is not fit for an extension. and Bus Service(Bx12) around there is in charge of that. Edited by N4 Via Merrick Rd

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You really can't build a portal or ramp so that it can go underground. And second of all, you'd have to make a sharp curve after Pelham Bay Park if it were to be elevated. Not to mention the construction would affect traffic on the I-95. Moreover that area I can say is not fit for an extension. and Bus Service(Bx12) around there is in charge of that.

 

 

Well excussseeee me... :P

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Well you gotta look back at history before, not based on what you know now. As per Wiki, Cooperative City was didn't exist before the 60s, which was an amusement park area. The Interstate 95 (Bruckner/New England Thruway) was under construction till that time. While the IND Concourse I believe was originally planned to head there as apart of the IND 2nd System, which never did.

 

Might be someone better who would know, grabbing just the I95/Co-Op part off here:

 

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Co-Op_City

http://en.wikipedia....kner_Expressway

 

For today. The (6) seems suitable in ways to head to Co-op over the New England Thruway... underground, no point due to land and I95 heading there. Plus noise would generate off it if it were an EL. I don't know what the communities reaction would be for an EL. Instead you would just use the Bx12SBS & LCL/Bx23/Bx20/Q50 for access to/from Pelham Bay.

 

If the IND Concourse were to head there, it would of made sense. Back then things were different then today, and a lot of areas was still developing.

 

 

The original expansion plans for the Concourse Line called for it to capture part of today's IRT Dyre Avenue line. With Co-op City as dense as it is (not to mention the busy Bay Plaza shopping district), a subway extension there would be a HUGE ridership generator. Clearly I favor an extension of the (D) rather than the (6) for several reasons:

 

1) The Lex is already at capacity; the Concourse line is not.

2) (D) extension creates two new transfer opportunities (one at Burke Ave/White Plains Rd and the other at Gun Hill Rd/Seymour Ave; the latter allows faster East Side service via the (5) express and offers an alternative to the BxM7).

3) (D) extension restores a connection to Westchester County buses (60/61) at Boston Rd since they were cut back to Fordham Plaza months ago.

4) Faster service through the Gun Hill corridor.

5) Relieves the Co-op City buses, including the Bx12 +SBS (as an example, it's just over half-hour scheduled travel on the Bx12 +SBS from Fordham/Concourse to Bay Plaza; the (D) would take half as long or less).

6) The extension would catalyze service increases on the (D), benefitting all (D) riders.

 

Admittedly a (D) extension would be much more expensive than the (6); also, digging under Bronx Park presents a challenge (also, if the water tables are too high @ Co-op, the line would have to go elevated at some point, presenting another challenge). However, I still believe such would be very beneficial.

 

I know I've posted this before, but my idea for the (D) extension is a straight shot under Bronx Park, then via Burke, Gun Hill, and Bartow with new stations at Burke/White Plains (xfer to (2) and peak (5)), Boston Rd, Gun Hill Rd (xfer to (5)), and Co-op City - Bay Plaza.

Edited by Concourse Express
  • Upvote 6

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I wonder also if the fact that Co-op City was marshland... Not sure how you could run a train underground... It would have to be elevated, but even so I believe I read somewhere about the foundation sinking in Co-op City... :ph34r:

 

 

Before it was known as Co-Op City, it was an amusment park called Freedomland, which was built on marshland

 

I also heard the foundations are slightly sinking in a few places so that rules out a tunnel

 

If this were to happen (and that's a big ass IF), I would rather the (D) go out there rather than the (6)...you open up more subway opportunities to people who didn't have subway service before.

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The (D) would have to have a portal somewhere in Bronx Park and it would have to be an el over Gun Hill Road, which residents might protest and traffic would be disrupted...

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The (D) would have to have a portal somewhere in Bronx Park and it would have to be an el over Gun Hill Road, which residents might protest and traffic would be disrupted...

 

 

A portal at Bronx Park isn't happening; remember that the (D) must run *under* the Bronx River - hence no room. The only area I could see a portal to an el constructed (and again that's if the Co-op City water table makes underground construction prohibitive) is Bartow Ave; since it is wide and downgrade (with varying degrees of steepness) from Gun Hill Rd to about Ely Ave, methinks an el portal here would be easier to construct. Don't know how strong the NIMBY factor would be at any point in the route though...

Edited by Concourse Express

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If it's a subway, I think the residents would be welcoming to an alternative to the Bx28/38. If it's an el, they may protest.

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If it's a subway, I think the residents would be welcoming to an alternative to the Bx28/38. If it's an el, they may protest.

 

 

Fair point; I envision the entire extension as subway, though if such becomes impractical in the Bay Plaza area, it could be a problem...

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Not only that but it would stop the constant discussion of limited stop service of Gun Hill Road as the (D) would be a limited Bx28

 

 

A Bx28 Limited could still happen if and only if ridership is really high. Besides, if the (D) were to run across Gun Hill, it would be better then having a Bx28 LTD. Plus I'm sure the Bx38 wouldn't even be here.

 

 

 

The original expansion plans for the Concourse Line called for it to capture part of today's IRT Dyre Avenue line. With Co-op City as dense as it is (not to mention the busy Bay Plaza shopping district), a subway extension there would be a HUGE ridership generator. Clearly I favor an extension of the (D) rather than the (6) for several reasons:

 

1) The Lex is already at capacity; the Concourse line is not.

2) (D) extension creates two new transfer opportunities (one at Burke Ave/White Plains Rd and the other at Gun Hill Rd/Seymour Ave; the latter allows faster East Side service via the (5) express and offers an alternative to the BxM7).

3) (D) extension restores a connection to Westchester County buses (60/61) at Boston Rd since they were cut back to Fordham Plaza months ago.

4) Faster service through the Gun Hill corridor.

5) Relieves the Co-op City buses, including the Bx12 +SBS (as an example, it's just over half-hour scheduled travel on the Bx12 +SBS from Fordham/Concourse to Bay Plaza; the (D) would take half as long).

6) The extension would catalyze service increases on the (D), benefitting all (D) riders.

 

Admittedly a (D) extension would be much more expensive than the (6); also, digging under Bronx Park presents a challenge (also, if the water tables are too high @ Co-op, the line would have to go elevated at some point, presenting another challenge). However, I still believe such would be very beneficial.

 

I know I've posted this before, but my idea for the (D) extension is a straight shot under Bronx Park, then via Burke, Gun Hill, and Bartow with new stations at Burke/White Plains (xfer to (2) and peak (5)), Boston Rd, Gun Hill Rd (xfer to (5)), and Co-op City - Bay Plaza.

 

 

-Gun Hill Road in most of its portions is mostly mom and pop shops and some businesses, mainly between Webster Ave to about Eastchester Road, with some homes passing, just like Webster Ave above 206th Street. I don't see much of a problem for a line to pass, even tho there are homes north and south of Gun Hill. But the road itself could take something. But of course noise would be a problem nearby.

 

-The (D) still has a connection with the 60/61, just gotta walk to 3rd Avenue for that. If not head to Valentine Ave during the AM for 62X North and drop off only PM rush. But even that still sucks as there are folks who think still that the 60/61 stops at its former terminal. It lost it due to parking issues on Kingsbridge Road.

 

In this life time we won't be seeing this, now with BRT progressing, thats the only solution at this point. Heh... not even to see the HBLR crossing to SI, since the Chairmen thinks BRT is more cheaper then that...

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-The (D) still has a connection with the 60/61, just gotta walk to 3rd Avenue for that. If not head to Valentine Ave during the AM for 62X North and drop off only PM rush. But even that still sucks as there are folks who think still that the 60/61 stops at its former terminal. It lost it due to parking issues on Kingsbridge Road.

 

In this life time we won't be seeing this, now with BRT progressing, thats the only solution at this point. Heh... not even to see the HBLR crossing to SI, since the Chairmen thinks BRT is more cheaper then that...

 

 

Yeah, but for some that steep hill from 3rd Ave to Valentine Ave is cumbersome (it's not cumbersome to me); that said, I still see Bee-Line buses going up Fordham Rd past Concourse after ending their runs at 3rd...

 

As for BRT...it may be cheap and beneficial in some respects but it's not the panacea MTA's touting it to be. What we need are cats with more vision to at least place these proposals on the table for long-term benefits; this culture of penny wisdom and pound foolishness has to end (that they chose BRT over LRT/heavy rail for the SI North Shore is also laughable IMHO). That said, I know there's no money for something like a (D) extension and I know it'll be a long time before such is realized (I'll still dream and have hope of the day where such comes to pass, though!).

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The (D) would have to have a portal somewhere in Bronx Park and it would have to be an el over Gun Hill Road, which residents might protest and traffic would be disrupted...

I always heard the end of the tunnel was behind a wall overlooking the river or something like that.

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I wouldn't necessarily think the (D) extension would be economically feasable in anyways, considering that it's Northern Terminus is far from Co-Op City and Bay Plaza, what we could do is use the (6) as the extension plan, and make it cross I-95 (New England Thruway), however it'll run on top of Baychester Ave. then loop around Co-Op City Blvd. then back onto Baychester over I-95 and to it's original routing.

 

The structure will be concrete wrapped in a steel frame in order to minimalize noise, this design will be similar to the JFK AirTrain design. If one thinks it might be a bit too long for such (6), maybe the (6) to Co-Op City could run Express until Hunts Point or Parkchester or if Co-Op City raises complaints about possible noise effect and such, I'd run it until Pear Tree Ave. to serve the Stop & Shop market and let it reverse back south there instead of looping it back down Co-Op City Blvd.

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I think a nice modern concrete guideway like that would fit in nicely with the [relatively] modern development.

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I wouldn't necessarily think the (D) extension would be economically feasable in anyways, considering that it's Northern Terminus is far from Co-Op City and Bay Plaza, what we could do is use the (6) as the extension plan, and make it cross I-95 (New England Thruway), however it'll run on top of Baychester Ave. then loop around Co-Op City Blvd. then back onto Baychester over I-95 and to it's original routing.

 

The structure will be concrete wrapped in a steel frame in order to minimalize noise, this design will be similar to the JFK AirTrain design. If one thinks it might be a bit too long for such (6), maybe the (6) to Co-Op City could run Express until Hunts Point or Parkchester or if Co-Op City raises complaints about possible noise effect and such, I'd run it until Pear Tree Ave. to serve the Stop & Shop market and let it reverse back south there instead of looping it back down Co-Op City Blvd.

 

 

All of this for a subway line... And if you think for a minute that this would somehow decrease the need for the BxM7 you're dreaming.

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All of this for a subway line... And if you think for a minute that this would somehow decrease the need for the BxM7 you're dreaming.

 

 

Can you stop bringing express buses into the discussion? Seriously.

 

Back on topic: It would be more efficient for Co-op City to have a subway stop instead of relying on a multitude of buses to get to the subway. So it should be done if it's possible, when the money is available.

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The (6) can do it... it dips down into the central space b/w the directions on the thruway, then curves over to Bartow and terminates there.

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Can you stop bringing express buses into the discussion? Seriously.

 

Back on topic: It would be more efficient for Co-op City to have a subway stop instead of relying on a multitude of buses to get to the subway. So it should be done if it's possible, when the money is available.

 

 

It most certainly is related... What is the point of building a subway that will run into the millions if not BILLIONS if folks are still going to flock to the express bus, which by the way is FAR cheaper, since you're always harping on costs... Oh and you think that they'd be willing to give up their local buses for that subway... Don't think so... Apparently you didn't read what that politician said about how they were promised EXCELLENT transportation there... We have MetroNorth here in Riverdale and we would not for a minute give up ANY bus service, be it local or express.

 

 

The (6) can do it... it dips down into the central space b/w the directions on the thruway, then curves over to Bartow and terminates there.

 

 

I'd like to see how, since Co-op City has been sinking for sometime now and now you're going to have a subway there too??

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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I'd like to see how, since Co-op City has been sinking for sometime now and now you're going to have a subway there too??

 

 

It's an el, not a subway...

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It's an el, not a subway...

 

 

Even if it's an el... If the area is sinking how are they going to be able to support an elevated line?? I'm well aware of the situation there. They've been trying to deal with the problem over the last few years and have been pouring tons of money to try to fix the problem. I think an elevated line may make matters worse for what is already a weak foundation (marshland and landfill).

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

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Even if it's an el... If the area is sinking how are they going to be able to support an elevated line??

 

 

Deep supports... How do you think they support some of the tallest structures in areas with soft ground?

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