42nd street shuttle fastrack good idea or not?

[AndrewJC]

It's one thing if they had the SF or US type gap fillers, but the gap fillers are under the platform, those are just useless.

They don't really do anything other than to keep a person from falling all the way down.

 

 

Keeping a person from falling all the way down is hardly useless!

 

For Queens Blvd. I suggest total Express Closure, followed by total Local Closure, for Queens Plaza to Kew Gardens ONLY (a two week ordeal instead of one) however I'd create bridge docks at Woodhaven so all trains can stop at the Express Track and the bridge docks could let passengers get off and X-Fer to another bus. Though I'd also suggest limited amounts of SuperExpress shuttle buses run ONLY on Queens Blvd. to Forest Hills, 75th Ave. and Kew Gardens respectively.

 

 

The point of FASTRACK is to give workers access to the entire ROW and to avoid the need for flagging (which reduces productivity and slows train service). Closing only two tracks doesn't accomplish that - if two tracks are closed, it will be either the two express tracks or one express track and one local track, for a conventional GO, possibly for an entire weekend. Closing both local tracks at once is pointless. (The only reason it's been proposed for the Lex is that the local and express are on different levels, so there wouldn't be flagging. So a bidirectional local track closure might make sense between Queens Plaza and Roosevelt but not between Roosevelt and 71st. But there would be major bus requirements to serve the local stations.)

 

Fastrack or not, the MTA should consider renovating the 42nd St TSQ platform of the to complete the entire renovation done to the complex. The platform is the only place needing some improvement. Even a better gap would do. GCT Done! TSQ .... hmmmm....??

 

 

There have been plans for a while to decommission track 4 and to shift the station east, where tracks 1 and 3 could accommodate 5 cars each. At this point I think it's only a question of funding.

 

Well, in an emergency it would be beneficial for the to access the IRT Broadway/7th Ave. Line so it still should be kept for accessibility, connectivity and convenience reasons. It's still a need, not a want for the entire IRT System in general, also considering that there can be at least a midtown track connection between the IRT Lex and IRT Bdwy. in case something very bad happens and no trains can go uptown ~or~ downtown.

 

 

What kind of emergency would benefit from a connection between track 1 on Lex pointing south and track 4 on Broadway pointing north?

[Eric B]

Fastrack or not, the MTA should consider renovating the 42nd St TSQ platform of the to complete the entire renovation done to the complex. The platform is the only place needing some improvement. Even a better gap would do. GCT Done! TSQ .... hmmmm....??

 

They're supposed to be connecting the other end of the unopened new connection between 6th Ave. and TSQ (and the new 1 Bryant Park), which likely would come out on the far platform, where the exits to the old buildings used to be, and now about 10 rooms (Stations, etc) have been built. The tenants of 1 Bryant Park were even promised an underground connection to both 6th Ave. and TSQ, with the exit in the middle of the block, in the arcade (covered by what looks like part of the bench).

 

I wondered what was holding this up. Probably, whenever they renovate the shuttle area.

[Q10 Airport]

Fastrack is for lines that operate 24-7 and are not easily to replace (Ex: Lexington Av line). The Times Square shuts down at midnight and can be easliy replaced with the . There is no reason to go beyond overnight repairs when the line is not running anyway.

[Brighton Express]

Do they even need Fastrack for the ? It is just one stop.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

Do they even need Fastrack for the ? It is just one stop.

 

They do need repairs. especially TSQ-42 Street and tunnel light bulb replacements(there is creepy incandescent lighting)

[Threxx]

Do they even need Fastrack for the ? It is just one stop.

 

 

One stop would be the trains at the Transit Museum.

 

And no, they don't. the already shuts down at night....

[mark1447]

I dunno, I personally don't see the need for track 4 once tracks 1 and 3 run 5 car trains. But ideally, I would keep track 4 for a layup for an extra train or have a work train placed there.

 

Highly unlikely*: Or maybe they could lay up the irt museum cars there (rotate b/w the low v and the smees) parked on the GCT end (have at least some security there to make sure no one tries to tag the train).

 

 

 

I would have to disagree on the death of Track 4. While Track 1 & 3 may got everything under control, Track 4 is a Rush hour only track, whcih I wouldn't kill. Rush hours the gets really packed, and T4 just heals up the crowd. Plus those entering the station from the Track 4 Platform at ether GCT or TSQ won't need to run through a crowd during RH if the train is already there.

 

They're supposed to be connecting the other end of the unopened new connection between 6th Ave. and TSQ (and the new 1 Bryant Park), which likely would come out on the far platform, where the exits to the old buildings used to be, and now about 10 rooms (Stations, etc) have been built. The tenants of 1 Bryant Park were even promised an underground connection to both 6th Ave. and TSQ, with the exit in the middle of the block, in the arcade (covered by what looks like part of the bench).

 

I wondered what was holding this up. Probably, whenever they renovate the shuttle area.

 

 

 

Didn't know all this. How long has this been in the plan?

 

They do need repairs. especially TSQ-42 Street and tunnel light bulb replacements(there is creepy incandescent lighting)

 

 

 

If anything, I don't think Fastrack is really needed on a line with just two stops. You can easily close down the , reroute the and do what you gotta do.

 

Now, like a line such as the BMT Franklin and IND Rockaway (which I doubt needs anything with the previous G/Os that happened), I can see this working.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

 

If anything, I don't think Fastrack is really needed on a line with just two stops. You can easily close down the , reroute the and do what you gotta do.

 

Now, like a line such as the BMT Franklin and IND Rockaway (which I doubt needs anything with the previous G/Os that happened), I can see this working.

 

I guess I mean TSQ-42 needs a renovation instead of a Fastrack.

[Grand Concourse]

Well, in an emergency it would be beneficial for the to access the IRT Broadway/7th Ave. Line so it still should be kept for accessibility, connectivity and convenience reasons. It's still a need, not a want for the entire IRT System in general, also considering that there can be at least a midtown track connection between the IRT Lex and IRT Bdwy. in case something very bad happens and no trains can go uptown ~or~ downtown.

 

But if it's an emergency, I doubt the would suddenly be used to go up the west side to fill in for the . But I'm saying just discontinue that track for revenue service and keep it for a layup track. At least tracks 1 and 3 are connected to the downtown IRT lex track.

 

 

I would have to disagree on the death of Track 4. While Track 1 & 3 may got everything under control, Track 4 is a Rush hour only track, whcih I wouldn't kill. Rush hours the gets really packed, and T4 just heals up the crowd. Plus those entering the station from the Track 4 Platform at ether GCT or TSQ won't need to run through a crowd during RH if the train is already there.

 

 

Track 4 is needed now because the other 2 tracks are 7 cars total. Once you have those 3 cars on the other 2 tracks, then you have all 10 cars running and eliminate the need for track 4. Plus I don't see any use out of renovating/reconstructing the TS end to allow a 5 car train to run on it. Ideally, you have tracks 1 and 3 leave their terminals around the same time in different directions instead of one holding at GCT to wait for the other train to enter.

[KeystoneRegional]

The point of FASTRACK is to give workers access to the entire ROW and to avoid the need for flagging (which reduces productivity and slows train service). Closing only two tracks doesn't accomplish that - if two tracks are closed, it will be either the two express tracks or one express track and one local track, for a conventional GO, possibly for an entire weekend. Closing both local tracks at once is pointless. (The only reason it's been proposed for the Lex is that the local and express are on different levels, so there wouldn't be flagging. So a bidirectional local track closure might make sense between Queens Plaza and Roosevelt but not between Roosevelt and 71st. But there would be major bus requirements to serve the local stations.)

 

 

What kind of emergency would benefit from a connection between track 1 on Lex pointing south and track 4 on Broadway pointing north?

 

1) Understood, and I rethought about it, and finalized that an entire section closed, regardless of express or local is better than just a specific pair of tracks closed. Can't really get such an instant response can you nowdays, hehe =)!

 

2) A random scenario is posted below in my response to Grand Concourse.

 

But if it's an emergency, I doubt the would suddenly be used to go up the west side to fill in for the . But I'm saying just discontinue that track for revenue service and keep it for a layup track. At least tracks 1 and 3 are connected to the downtown IRT lex track.

 

But regardless of revenue service or not, if a major electrical failure happened at 110th St. on the Lex. where can the rest of the trains on the Lex. Ave. corridor turn in order to get to the Bronx? That's why I said leave the track connection intact, because it's used for non-revenue service either ways and the closest to revenue is museum train service. So it's still a vital switch and connection. Don't quite understand why you wanted to disconnect it from the IRT Broadway/7th...

[Grand Concourse]

I never meant/said to disconnect the track from the mainline. I meant track 4 won't be used for passenger service as it is now and would be used as a layup to store work trains/unused train.

 

So to clear it up: track 4 is left as is. No changes. The only change is no active passenger service.

[AndrewJC]

But regardless of revenue service or not, if a major electrical failure happened at 110th St. on the Lex. where can the rest of the trains on the Lex. Ave. corridor turn in order to get to the Bronx? That's why I said leave the track connection intact, because it's used for non-revenue service either ways and the closest to revenue is museum train service. So it's still a vital switch and connection. Don't quite understand why you wanted to disconnect it from the IRT Broadway/7th...

 

 

The shuttle connection to the East Side is on track 1 - the southbound local track - only. And the shuttle connection to the West Side is on track 4 - the northbound local track - only.

 

So a northbound Lex train wouldn't be able to get to the shuttle. In your example, trains would be turned at 42nd and 86th (and maybe 59th) and 5 trains would run up the West Side from Brooklyn (or Bowling Green).

[realizm]

There's no need for fasttrack on the shuttle. I mean there is the 7 train. And it's such a short line. I think weekend or overnight GO's would do the trick for maintenance and repairs.

 

Oh wait did I post that already a page ago? Need more coffee....

[KeystoneRegional]

I never meant/said to disconnect the track from the mainline. I meant track 4 won't be used for passenger service as it is now and would be used as a layup to store work trains/unused train.

 

So to clear it up: track 4 is left as is. No changes. The only change is no active passenger service.

 

 

Okay cool, thanks for clarifying, and overall I would agree with no passenger service as it would drive maintenance costs down, and let operations move smoothly.

 

The shuttle connection to the East Side is on track 1 - the southbound local track - only. And the shuttle connection to the West Side is on track 4 - the northbound local track - only.

 

So a northbound Lex train wouldn't be able to get to the shuttle. In your example, trains would be turned at 42nd and 86th (and maybe 59th) and 5 trains would run up the West Side from Brooklyn (or Bowling Green).

 

 

I know, but my point is why are you wanting the isolated from the IRT 7th Ave. / Broadway Line? OR the line on the "West Side" if you will. I don't think cutting off a track connection would be a good idea.

 

Overflowed equiptments can still at least use the corridor somewhat in order to get to the Bronx, it still provides a vital use for non-passenger trains and special events museum trains.

[AndrewJC]

I know, but my point is why are you wanting the isolated from the IRT 7th Ave. / Broadway Line? OR the line on the "West Side" if you will. I don't think cutting off a track connection would be a good idea.

 

 

The connection is in place for one reason only: to give the track 4 shuttle train access to the rest of the system, so that it can be brought to the shop for maintenance.

 

Overflowed equiptments can still at least use the corridor somewhat in order to get to the Bronx,

 

 

No they can't. There is no physical way for a northbound train on Lex to get onto the shuttle. The only Lex connection to the shuttle is from the southbound local track.

 

it still provides a vital use for non-passenger trains and special events museum trains.

 

 

I wouldn't call it a vital use, seeing as it's never used that way.

 

(If a train needs to be pulled off the mainline, there's a spur track just south of Times Square.)

[Broadway Local]

I don't think fastrack is really needed for the 42nd St Shuttle, since it's only two stops, and yeah the Times Sq station kind of look hideous in my opinion.

 

If anything can be added at the shuttle (ex.gap fillers), then there's the train, we can take that too,

[Quill Depot]

The shuttle is fine as it is two trains at a time that do not share a track. No more "Fastrack" ideas. All "Fastrack" is, is night track work and cleanup of the tracks.

[B35 via Church]

42nd st shuttle fastrack.....

 

what are you gonna do, shut down the whole line & tell people to take the 7..... I'm surprised the MTA hasn't gone to those levels of frugality on the weekends yet......

[realizm]

^It was done before as a routine GO but not as a fastrack. Seems that the shuttle is in OK repair but sometimes work just has to get done. Not saying a fastrack is needed. Now from the feedback I have to agree a times square fastrack just unnecessary overkill. Unless we have tunnels collapsing and caving in, no need for it.

[Guest Lance]

Not for nothing guys, but I think you're confusing FASTRACK and station/line rehabs. The former is just another way of doing routine maintenance, whereas the latter is exactly what you think it means.

[realizm]

Plus as another person mentioned on page 1 the shuttle closes at midnignt approximately, so there's nothing much to really discuss on the fastrack issue, no offense to OP. Unless we talk about routine sceduled maintenance and repairs on the line as the MTA does now.

 

So there you go.

[KeystoneRegional]

The connection is in place for one reason only: to give the track 4 shuttle train access to the rest of the system, so that it can be brought to the shop for maintenance.

No they can't. There is no physical way for a northbound train on Lex to get onto the shuttle. The only Lex connection to the shuttle is from the southbound local track.

 

I wouldn't call it a vital use, seeing as it's never used that way.

 

(If a train needs to be pulled off the mainline, there's a spur track just south of Times Square.)

 

 

1) That's one of my main points, you don't have to have complicated, time and energy consuming moves. Keep in mind electric energy is precious, a big chunk of it is from petro and coal burning plants.

 

2) There is a physical way, switch the northbound train to the express, then the s/b express, then s/b local to get to the , even if a reverse need to be executed.

 

3) Do you know what we're talking about here? The folks here are trying to remove the Times Square spur track which connects to T4, not the GCT link at T1 and really it's north of Times Square, not south.

[Quill Depot]

You could even do day fastrack work on the shuttle, do it on track one one day, use other tracks, do it on track two, use other tracks...

[j express]

You could even do day fastrack work on the shuttle, do it on track one one day, use other tracks, do it on track two, use other tracks...

 

 

That's not how fastrack works since the purpose of fastrack is to shut down all tracks on a particular segment of a line so a lot of workers come and do repairs without interuptions. Shutting down one track would take longer since less workers and train interuptions through the area..

[Quill Depot]

That's not how fastrack works since the purpose of fastrack is to shut down all tracks on a particular segment of a line so a lot of workers come and do repairs without interuptions. Shutting down one track would take longer since less workers and train interuptions through the area..

 

 

I know, you could do it in the day. You could close the whole shuttle, use the .