MTA payroll tax ruled unconstitutional

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

[float=left][/float]The controversial payroll tax — which imposes a 34 cent tariff on every $100 that employers pay towards salaries — is unconstitutional, a state supreme court judge ruled today.

 

The ruling comes after several Long Island municipalities filed suit against the state legislature for imposing the tax in 2009.

 

They argued that Nassau County residents were unfairly burdened by the law, which applies only 12-counties in the region.

 

Read more: Source

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree... If the wants more money they can enforce the fare. The farebeaters steal from them so they inturn punish hard working taxpayers that do pay and hit them with more taxes. Ridiculous.

[MHV9218]

I agree... If the wants more money they can enforce the fare. The farebeaters steal from them so they inturn punish hard working taxpayers that do pay and hit them with more taxes. Ridiculous.

 

 

Those numbers are nowhere near the same thing. Farebeating is small change, this is crippling. This is an oddball ruling that comes in contrast to four previous rulings the other way, and it's a selfish premise on the part of Nassau County where Mangano essentially took MTA service and then refuses to foot the bill. This needs to be sorted, otherwise there are some very big budgetary holes to deal with (a lot bigger than farebeating).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Those numbers are nowhere near the same thing. Farebeating is small change, this is crippling. This is an oddball ruling that comes in contrast to four previous rulings the other way, and it's a selfish premise on the part of Nassau County where Mangano essentially took MTA service and then refuses to foot the bill. This needs to be sorted, otherwise there are some very big budgetary holes to deal with (a lot bigger than farebeating).

 

 

Well the real issue here is that the isn't getting the funding that it should from the State, so in turn they come to the taxpayers yet again and ask for more taxes to be levied on us. I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous already. How many friggin' surcharges are they going to levy on us?

 

surcharge on your cell phone bill

surcharge anytime you use a yellow taxi in the city

Higher tolls on bridges, which the gets to keep....

 

What are we paying taxes for if we can't get basic services without being double and triple taxed?!?!?

[Kamen Rider]

any judge of the state court of appeals worth his or her salt would give Cozzens the bashing he's now got coming.

 

Nassau is in no way unduely burdened considering how much they should owe the MTA in back payments for services render. heck, by thier resoning, the city, Suffolk, Westchester and the others should sue Nassau for making us pick up the tab on LIB for so long.

[Shortline Bus]

Dumb question. Will the appeal this ruling and what level of court is next? I am sure this will go to the state Supreme Court.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

any judge of the state court of appeals worth his or her salt would give Cozzens the bashing he's now got coming.

 

Nassau is in no way unduely burdened considering how much they should owe the MTA in back payments for services render. heck, by thier resoning, the city, Suffolk, Westchester and the others should sue Nassau for making us pick up the tab on LIB for so long.

 

 

Well yes, Nassau is definitely WRONG, no question about it, but I still disagree with us being double and triple taxed. My point is if anything, we should be the one complaining, not them.

[MHV9218]

Well the real issue here is that the isn't getting the funding that it should from the State, so in turn they come to the taxpayers yet again and ask for more taxes to be levied on us. I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous already. How many friggin' surcharges are they going to levy on us?

 

surcharge on your cell phone bill

surcharge anytime you use a yellow taxi in the city

Higher tolls on bridges, which the gets to keep....

 

What are we paying taxes for if we can't get basic services without being double and triple taxed?!?!?

 

 

You're actually paying very little in taxes (generally around a marginal 30% rate), and that's the reason we see so many of these extra surcharges. Cuomo Sr. cut the MTA budget in a time of state trouble, but then Giuliani and Pataki sat on top of a surplus and did nothing to refund the MTA, and then we hit the second round of budget issues, which meant same lackluster funding remained. And of course, the state will never have the money to fund the MTA because you people refuse to pay higher taxes, so the MTA has to add tiny taxes by itself. That's the issue here, and literally all of it could be fixed with a statewide tax increase and/or congestion pricing. Until then, mini-taxes, better get used to it.

 

any judge of the state court of appeals worth his or her salt would give Cozzens the bashing he's now got coming.

 

Nassau is in no way unduely burdened considering how much they should owe the MTA in back payments for services render. heck, by thier resoning, the city, Suffolk, Westchester and the others should sue Nassau for making us pick up the tab on LIB for so long.

 

 

Absolutely. Mangano just disgusts me, another from this unsustainable culture of taking without paying.

 

Dumb question. Will the appeal this ruling and what level of court is next? I am sure this will go to the state Supreme Court.

 

 

Absolutely (and they'll probably win). Whatever appellate court is next, I assume.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You're actually paying very little in taxes (generally around a marginal 30% rate), and that's the reason we see so many of these extra surcharges. Cuomo Sr. cut the MTA budget in a time of state trouble, but then Giuliani and Pataki sat on top of a surplus and did nothing to refund the MTA, and then we hit the second round of budget issues, which meant same lackluster funding remained. And of course, the state will never have the money to fund the MTA because you people refuse to pay higher taxes, so the MTA has to add tiny taxes by itself. That's the issue here, and literally all of it could be fixed with a statewide tax increase and/or congestion pricing. Until then, mini-taxes, better get used to it.

 

 

Oh, "us people"? Excuse me but as a young upper middle class single professional, I pay my share of taxes and then some. If anything you should be paying more since you think we need higher taxes.

[MHV9218]

"You people" are the people who complain about service but them won't pay the tax; the fact that you're (as you proudly describe) "upper middle class" means you should definitely be paying more in taxes as the rich and upper middle class are taxed too little (the days of the 60% marginal rate on the rich, that was a good plan).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

"You people" are the people who complain about service but them won't pay the tax; the fact that you're (as you proudly describe) "upper middle class" means you should definitely be paying more in taxes as the rich and upper middle class are taxed too little (the days of the 60% marginal rate on the rich, that was a good plan).

 

 

I beg to differ... I pay more than my fair share because #1 I'm in a higher tax bracket and #2 I'm single as opposed to being married, so there goes that theory right there. If anything it's folks like you who need to pay more instead of suggesting robbing us upper middle class folks. I earn my money I deserve to keep as much of it as possible. Maybe if the welfare types that steal rides and farebeat were paying their way, we wouldn't have all of these additional "surcharges". One of my recent paychecks I brought in over 3k for two weeks and took home a little home over a little over 2k, so more than 1k in taxes... Disgusting.

[MHV9218]

What "theory?" This is the theory: the more you earn, the more you pay. I can tell you that the only people who aren't paying their fair share are the middle and lower classes -- they're taxed too highly. Taxation is not robbery, and never has been for the thousands of years it's existed. One pays money to pay for services to the public, and currently, tax rates are too low on the upper class and the upper middle class.

 

Your categorization of "welfare types" is plain old disgusting, since most folks on welfare are honest, hard-working people. And the notion that farebeating is anywhere near the major cause of the MTA's budget woes is ridiculous.

[paulrivera]

Look at this last paragraph of the MTA's statement regarding today's development:

 

"Without the Payroll Mobility Tax or another stable and reliable source of funding, the MTA would be forced to implement a combination of extreme service cuts and fare hikes. The Payroll Mobility Tax remains in effect for now, and we expect that it will survive this legal challenge."

 

And news reports are saying this could cost the MTA $1 billion per year?!?! Oh boy...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What "theory?" This is the theory: the more you earn, the more you pay. I can tell you that the only people who aren't paying their fair share are the middle and lower classes -- they're taxed too highly. Taxation is not robbery, and never has been for the thousands of years it's existed. One pays money to pay for services to the public, and currently, tax rates are too low on the upper class and the upper middle class.

 

Your categorization of "welfare types" is plain old disgusting, since most folks on welfare are honest, hard-working people. And the notion that farebeating is anywhere near the major cause of the MTA's budget woes is ridiculous.

 

 

Well I'm sorry but if they're really losing a $100 million a year to farebeaters then that money could be used to restore a bunch of services for starters that could generate more revenues for the through increased ridership. And this notion of welfare folks being "honest, hard working people" is laughable! I can't count how many times I saw fancy chicks coming out of a Mercedes Benz with a fancy coat on and going into the supermarket with food stamps. Real "honest"... The welfare types stealing from middle class and upper middle class folks go further and steal services as well to have us put out even more money for them. Yeah, but I guess I don't pay enough, paying over 1k in taxes every paycheck.

[CDTA]

VG8, I have been reading your posts, and you sicken me.

1. $100 Million < $1 Billion, not to mention you have to spend AT LEAST a good $5 Million before anything changes.
   
2. Ok, I can see your POV on this. But here's the thing, you canm't complain when service is cut, then when you have a chance to do something about it, you decline. I get that it means more money, but you use the MTA to get too work, and I know if they do have to do a fare hike/service cuts, you will be the first to line up calling it BS.
   
3. You do NOT have the right to badmouth every person on Welfare, because of a few bad people. Allow me to use the analogy of the bronies. Alot of us are modest, hard-working people with jobs. We respect people who don't like the show, and don't clop. But guess what, a few do clop, a few do spend most of their day on the internet, a few shove it down everybodys throat, a few do clop. And because of those few, alot of people view all of us, as the few.
   

3A. Yes those types of people do exsist. BUT WE DON'T ALL FAREBEAT, AND DRIVE AROUND IN MERCEDES. The majority of people I see shop with EBT don't have cars. They have carts, and they push them all the way home, even if it's a few miles. I'm on Welfare. I don't farebeat. Nobody I know on welfare fare beats. (Except those "gangsters"). I think a good example would be my girlfriend. She lived two miles away fropm school and do you know what she does? She wakes up, an hour earlier than most other people each day. And she WALKS. Or here's another scenario for you. When I lived in Harlem, and went to school over at 92nd St, and I lost my metrocard, I asked the B/O if he would let me on. He said yes. Does this make me some welfare, ignorant farebeating person whole stole from the middle class? NO. Do you know WHY my family's on welfare? Because my mom has two dieseases that have never been seen with eachother before. And treatment for one, makes the other worse. And she keeps getting denied for disability. So yeah, you make it so that I can't eat, or live someplace, because the goverment, not us, is screwing you over.

[Shortline Bus]

VG8, I have been reading your posts, and you sicken me.

1. $100 Million < $1 Billion, not to mention you have to spend AT LEAST a good $5 Million before anything changes.
    
   
2. Ok, I can see your POV on this. But here's the thing, you canm't complain when service is cut, then when you have a chance to do something about it, you decline. I get that it means more money, but you use the MTA to get too work, and I know if they do have to do a fare hike/service cuts, you will be the first to line up calling it BS.
    
   
3. You do NOT have the right to badmouth every person on Welfare, because of a few bad people. Allow me to use the analogy of the bronies. Alot of us are modest, hard-working people with jobs. We respect people who don't like the show, and don't clop. But guess what, a few do clop, a few do spend most of their day on the internet, a few shove it down everybodys throat, a few do clop. And because of those few, alot of people view all of us, as the few.
   

3A. Yes those types of people do exsist. BUT WE DON'T ALL FAREBEAT, AND DRIVE AROUND IN MERCEDES. The majority of people I see shop with EBT don't have cars. They have carts, and they push them all the way home, even if it's a few miles. I'm on Welfare. I don't farebeat. Nobody I know on welfare fare beats. (Except those "gangsters"). I think a good example would be my girlfriend. She lived two miles away fropm school and do you know what she does? She wakes up, an hour earlier than most other people each day. And she WALKS. Or here's another scenario for you. When I lived in Harlem, and went to school over at 92nd St, and I lost my metrocard, I asked the B/O if he would let me on. He said yes. Does this make me some welfare, ignorant farebeating person whole stole from the middle class? NO. Do you know WHY my family's on welfare? Because my mom has two dieseases that have never been seen with eachother before. And treatment for one, makes the other worse. And she keeps getting denied for disability. So yeah, you make it so that I can't eat, or live someplace, because the goverment, not us, is screwing you over.

 

 

 

Well said. While VG8 has a point on farebeats, the way he sounds sometimes makes him an sound like an elitist and selfifsh. I also agree that the wastes tens of millions or more every year with excessive amount of high level managers/ excessive spending. That of course due to the corruption in Albany and NYC city hall by both major parties. However without a way(i.e taxes or congestion/Tolls to/from Manhattan, etc.) to pay for these subway/rail/bus services, the basic fares on local subway/bus would be $10 each way or more.

 

So VG8, if he that upset with the spending then time for VG8 to invest in his own car. Or get a personal driver like all the rich people do on Park Ave.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So VG8, if he that upset with the spending then time for VG8 to invest in his own car. Or get a personal driver like all the rich people do on Park Ave.

 

Car or not, I would still be stuck paying those taxes. Same thing for folks elsewhere, so that's a moot point.

 

 

VG8, I have been reading your posts, and you sicken me.

1. $100 Million < $1 Billion, not to mention you have to spend AT LEAST a good $5 Million before anything changes.
    
   
2. Ok, I can see your POV on this. But here's the thing, you canm't complain when service is cut, then when you have a chance to do something about it, you decline. I get that it means more money, but you use the MTA to get too work, and I know if they do have to do a fare hike/service cuts, you will be the first to line up calling it BS.
    
   
3. You do NOT have the right to badmouth every person on Welfare, because of a few bad people. Allow me to use the analogy of the bronies. Alot of us are modest, hard-working people with jobs. We respect people who don't like the show, and don't clop. But guess what, a few do clop, a few do spend most of their day on the internet, a few shove it down everybodys throat, a few do clop. And because of those few, alot of people view all of us, as the few.
   

3A. Yes those types of people do exsist. BUT WE DON'T ALL FAREBEAT, AND DRIVE AROUND IN MERCEDES. The majority of people I see shop with EBT don't have cars. They have carts, and they push them all the way home, even if it's a few miles. I'm on Welfare. I don't farebeat. Nobody I know on welfare fare beats. (Except those "gangsters"). I think a good example would be my girlfriend. She lived two miles away fropm school and do you know what she does? She wakes up, an hour earlier than most other people each day. And she WALKS. Or here's another scenario for you. When I lived in Harlem, and went to school over at 92nd St, and I lost my metrocard, I asked the B/O if he would let me on. He said yes. Does this make me some welfare, ignorant farebeating person whole stole from the middle class? NO. Do you know WHY my family's on welfare? Because my mom has two dieseases that have never been seen with eachother before. And treatment for one, makes the other worse. And she keeps getting denied for disability. So yeah, you make it so that I can't eat, or live someplace, because the goverment, not us, is screwing you over.

 

 

I don't see why you're complaining for. Folks like your mother should be able to collect welfare and other benefits because she's DISABLED. My comments are aimed at abled bodied folks who scam the system and are shiftless. If my statement doesn't apply to you then there is nothing to be upset about. I don't think your mother falls into the Mercedes Benz category now does she?

[Harry]

I don't see why you're complaining for. Folks like your mother should be able to collect welfare and other benefits because she's DISABLED. My comments are aimed at abled bodied folks who scam the system and are shiftless. If my statement doesn't apply to you then there is nothing to be upset about. I don't think your mother falls into the Mercedes Benz category now does she?

 

You made your point. Now stop the takeover of this thread and let others get a chance to add something.

 

Enough of you already.

[Threxx]

VG8, I have been reading your posts, and you sicken me.

1. $100 Million < $1 Billion, not to mention you have to spend AT LEAST a good $5 Million before anything changes.
    
   
2. Ok, I can see your POV on this. But here's the thing, you canm't complain when service is cut, then when you have a chance to do something about it, you decline. I get that it means more money, but you use the MTA to get too work, and I know if they do have to do a fare hike/service cuts, you will be the first to line up calling it BS.
    
   
3. You do NOT have the right to badmouth every person on Welfare, because of a few bad people. Allow me to use the analogy of the bronies. Alot of us are modest, hard-working people with jobs. We respect people who don't like the show, and don't clop. But guess what, a few do clop, a few do spend most of their day on the internet, a few shove it down everybodys throat, a few do clop. And because of those few, alot of people view all of us, as the few.
   

3A. Yes those types of people do exsist. BUT WE DON'T ALL FAREBEAT, AND DRIVE AROUND IN MERCEDES. The majority of people I see shop with EBT don't have cars. They have carts, and they push them all the way home, even if it's a few miles. I'm on Welfare. I don't farebeat. Nobody I know on welfare fare beats. (Except those "gangsters"). I think a good example would be my girlfriend. She lived two miles away fropm school and do you know what she does? She wakes up, an hour earlier than most other people each day. And she WALKS. Or here's another scenario for you. When I lived in Harlem, and went to school over at 92nd St, and I lost my metrocard, I asked the B/O if he would let me on. He said yes. Does this make me some welfare, ignorant farebeating person whole stole from the middle class? NO. Do you know WHY my family's on welfare? Because my mom has two dieseases that have never been seen with eachother before. And treatment for one, makes the other worse. And she keeps getting denied for disability. So yeah, you make it so that I can't eat, or live someplace, because the goverment, not us, is screwing you over.

 

[Shortline Bus]

Wow! First time VG8 is speechless since he joined the site almost 2 years. A sight to see.

 

Back to topic. Unless the become 100% private owned and run, taxes are sadly needed to pay for part of running the agency. The argument is how much taxes/tolls are needed from the public besides the fares collected.

[RollOver]

 

 

lol

[checkmatechamp13]

Wow! First time VG8 is speechless since he joined the site almost 2 years. A sight to see.

 

Back to topic. Unless the become 100% private owned and run, taxes are sadly needed to pay for part of running the agency. The argument is how much taxes/tolls are needed from the public besides the fares collected.

 

 

I don't think he had much of a choice once Harry stepped in.

 

In any case, I doubt this is going to pass.

[Tokkemon]

Why was congestion pricing never implemented again?

[QM1to6Ave]

One of the stickier legal issues here is that the MTA has a fairly unique standing. It is not a true government agency, it is mostly part of the state but gets a significant amount of money from new York city, and it predominantly serves the 5 boroughs. Plus, a lot of its funds are theoretically supposed to come from te private real estate it owns, not directly from taxes. Because of this odd mix, every judge at every level is forced to make heads or tails out of te MTA and try to define its essential role. These kinds of problems are going to keep coming up until te MTA becomes more unified and streamlined.

 

Also, to whoever mentioned state supreme court, in New York, the supreme court is actually the lowest level of court for reasons that escape me.

[CenSin]

Well I'm sorry but if they're really losing a $100 million a year to farebeaters then that money could be used to restore a bunch of services for starters that could generate more revenues for the through increased ridership.

It will probably cost $100 million a year to enforce. Revenue may be recovered, but extra cops will have to be paid or pulled from more important duties.