realizm Posted August 24, 2012 Share #26 Posted August 24, 2012 One of the stickier legal issues here is that the MTA has a fairly unique standing. It is not a true government agency, it is mostly part of the state but gets a significant amount of money from new York city, and it predominantly serves the 5 boroughs. I see, so what you're saying is that the MTA is actually not a city or govenment agency but in reality a public benefit corporation or public benefit authority granted bureaucratic roles and powers by Albany in the maintenance of public infrastructure and regulation of fares etc? Because that is a very stong point to consider in this issue being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 24, 2012 Share #27 Posted August 24, 2012 that's more a side effect of the assinie polticis that have dominated this state all these years. the entire system is set up to protect one finger from what the other is doing, never mind the whole hand. I mean consider how the system is set up. the MTA controls the LIRR outright, controls Mentro-North operationaly but still rents the property, TBTA is only functionaly an afliate, and they only control NYCTA through the fact the board of the MTA is also appointed the board of the transit authoirty. basicly making the MTA an authoirty that controls two more authoirtes within itself. it's like giveing your lungs and your kidneys a brain and a credit card. Edit; I forgot about MaBSTOA and SIRTOA, now we've got an authortiy that controls an authoirty that controls more authorites. and while I'm ranting, why does my water bill go to Pittsburgh?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 24, 2012 Share #28 Posted August 24, 2012 It will probably cost $100 million a year to enforce. Revenue may be recovered, but extra cops will have to be paid or pulled from more important duties. Well I don't expect $100 million to go that far obviously. The point is there is still money that they can go after to at least give the appearance that they're trying to be efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share #29 Posted August 24, 2012 Just Saying your smooth ride on your luxurious Mercedes Benz M7A to Grand Central may not be so smooth is this appealed VG8 so yea this tax is a pain in the a-s-s but it helps keeps the the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share #30 Posted August 24, 2012 The says that they'll have to make severe cuts and hikes so I'm kinda in with the Payroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted August 24, 2012 Share #31 Posted August 24, 2012 Look at this last paragraph of the MTA's statement regarding today's development: "Without the Payroll Mobility Tax or another stable and reliable source of funding, the MTA would be forced to implement a combination of extreme service cuts and fare hikes. The Payroll Mobility Tax remains in effect for now, and we expect that it will survive this legal challenge." And news reports are saying this could cost the MTA $1 billion per year?!?! Oh boy... If the MTA loses, I'm curious if the planned Service improvements, would be nixed (some). Well I'm sorry but if they're really losing a $100 million a year to farebeaters then that money could be used to restore a bunch of services for starters that could generate more revenues for the through increased ridership. And this notion of welfare folks being "honest, hard working people" is laughable! I can't count how many times I saw fancy chicks coming out of a Mercedes Benz with a fancy coat on and going into the supermarket with food stamps. Real "honest"... The welfare types stealing from middle class and upper middle class folks go further and steal services as well to have us put out even more money for them. Yeah, but I guess I don't pay enough, paying over 1k in taxes every paycheck. If the fares were to be lowered, I'm sure the numbers of fare beaters out there would drop as well. I know the MTA loses millions on these idiots who do that, but I do partly agree that the hiking has got to slow down. I wouldn't imagine one day the crap being $5 in 2020-2030 around for a local Subway/Bus ride, while $10 bucks for an Express Ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 24, 2012 Share #32 Posted August 24, 2012 If the MTA loses, I'm curious if the planned Service improvements, would be nixed (some). If the fares were to be lowered, I'm sure the numbers of fare beaters out there would drop as well. I know the MTA loses millions on these idiots who do that, but I do partly agree that the hiking has got to slow down. I wouldn't imagine one day the crap being $5 in 2020-2030 around for a local Subway/Bus ride, while $10 bucks for an Express Ride. Way things are going, it might be $5 for local subway/bus fare as early as a decade(2022) from now counting inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share #33 Posted August 24, 2012 Way thing are going it might $5 for local subway/bus fare as early as a decade from now counting inflation. $5 is too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 24, 2012 Share #34 Posted August 24, 2012 If the fares were to be lowered, I'm sure the numbers of fare beaters out there would drop as well. I know the MTA loses millions on these idiots who do that, but I do partly agree that the hiking has got to slow down. I wouldn't imagine one day the crap being $5 in 2020-2030 around for a local Subway/Bus ride, while $10 bucks for an Express Ride. Probably, but that's a big if. You're assuming that folks won't try to take advantage because of lax enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 24, 2012 Share #35 Posted August 24, 2012 by the end of the century, it's expected to be $80 a ride from inflation alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTSignals Posted August 25, 2012 Share #36 Posted August 25, 2012 VG8 i get almost the same amount as u a paycheck stolen from me, no children and not married....dont consider myself "upper" middle class... 1 can only imagine if the TA had that type of money taken from them what would happen, i think Albany needs to properly fund the TA, and keep them funded otherwise its going to end up like the 70s and then pple complain about how bad the subways are............everyone is quicker to complain then they are to pay ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted August 25, 2012 Share #37 Posted August 25, 2012 The thing is if the payroll tax is gone, our subway and local bus would be $5.50, express bus would be anywhere from $7.50 - $13.00, commuter rail might cost as much as Amtrak's first class ticket as base fare. The thing is we already pay some of the money via property tax, and the regular tax which come out from our checks, however payroll is important since it means all businesses pay it, no matter if they use MTA or not, still it's logical considering that it's basically a tax promoting the use of MTA Railroads, and MTA Services. Us Americans don't understand that these services need money to run, that's why a NJTransit fare is lower to Mount Olive than Martz Trailways as an example. Whatever this judge and everyone anti-payroll is thinking, will end up complaining afterwards, since the isn't obligated to provide non-disabled people service. Abled people can just go ahead and take the cab or drive to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted August 25, 2012 Share #38 Posted August 25, 2012 Car or not, I would still be stuck paying those taxes. Same thing for folks elsewhere, so that's a moot point. Not only will you still be paying those taxes, you'd be paying ADDITIONAL MTA taxes. MTA gas tax, MTA registration fee, mta drivers licesnse fee, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeystoneRegional Posted August 25, 2012 Share #39 Posted August 25, 2012 LOL @ Congestion Pricing! Well guess more Long Islanders and Queens/Brooklyn people will move to New Jersey, I wouldn't mind too, even moving to Staten Island would be a-okay for me if Congestion Pricing is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 25, 2012 Share #40 Posted August 25, 2012 VG8 i get almost the same amount as u a paycheck stolen from me, no children and not married....dont consider myself "upper" middle class... 1 can only imagine if the TA had that type of money taken from them what would happen, i think Albany needs to properly fund the TA, and keep them funded otherwise its going to end up like the 70s and then pple complain about how bad the subways are............everyone is quicker to complain then they are to pay ! Well let me just say that was one paycheck for two weeks. The taxes I pay varies since I have a base salary & commissions so it doesn't quite tell the whole picture, plus I also tutor when I want as well which brings me in additional monies, so I pay more than that in terms of taxes. In any event, I would consider a single individual earning 70k+ to be starting at the upper middle class level, especially when you consider their living expenses because there are plenty of folks that earn 100 - 150k a year that by income level would be upper middle class without a question, but they're barely making it because of their expenses, so if one has low expenses and is earning 70k+ a year they should be doing just fine. Keep in mind also that with the recession, what is considered "middle class" and "upper middle class" has changed. For example, the median income in NYC is only $44k a year which I surprised to learn considering how many affluent folks are around in this town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 26, 2012 Share #41 Posted August 26, 2012 For example, the median income in NYC is only $44k a year which I surprised to learn considering how many affluent folks are around in this town. And yet you still consider areas with above-average median incomes poor. I don't know where you get that figure from. It's about $50K now, and either $38K or $42K back in 2000. For those who are interested, here's a site with census data going all the way back to 1790. It has the median income for NYC (Scroll down to 2000 place and 2010 place), but you need to pay to access that data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clinton Posted August 26, 2012 Share #42 Posted August 26, 2012 I wonder if the MTA honchos believe in bad karma. They have a history of fighting hard to avoid paying their dedicated employees the salaries and benefits they deserve. Now they have someone taking from them what they believe they are entitled to. Ironic. Isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted August 27, 2012 Share #43 Posted August 27, 2012 Well the real issue here is that the isn't getting the funding that it should from the State, so in turn they come to the taxpayers yet again and ask for more taxes to be levied on us. I'm sorry but this is just ridiculous already. How many friggin' surcharges are they going to levy on us? surcharge on your cell phone bill surcharge anytime you use a yellow taxi in the city Higher tolls on bridges, which the gets to keep.... What are we paying taxes for if we can't get basic services without being double and triple taxed?!?!? The MTA doesn't impose taxes. The MTA can't impose taxes. The MTA can ask the state for increased funding, and the state can impose taxes to provide that funding. The payroll tax, and all of the examples that you list, were imposed by the state. Not that dedicated taxes are any guarantee. The 2010 service cuts were precipitated in part by the state's decision to divert dedicated MTA tax revenue elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamen Rider Posted August 27, 2012 Share #44 Posted August 27, 2012 I wonder if the MTA honchos believe in bad karma. They have a history of fighting hard to avoid paying their dedicated employees the salaries and benefits they deserve. Now they have someone taking from them what they believe they are entitled to. Ironic. Isn't it? this isn't bad karma. the rank and file are not going to get any raises if the ruleing stands. it's hurting them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Transit TO Posted August 28, 2012 Share #45 Posted August 28, 2012 Until public transportation ins NYC is viewed as policing, fire, dot, & sanitation, we will continue tossing the political football of funding. The stock transfer tax would raise $300 million annually, toss in congestion pricing for downtown, and throw a tax on super exorbitant manhattan real estate, and you have some cash to start with.. BUT Bloomy & Albany wont go with this, since thier social crowd wiould wind up paying a good share.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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