BrooklynBus Posted August 27, 2012 Share #1 Posted August 27, 2012 http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2012/08/whats-a-fair-fare-part-3-of-3-a-potential-solution/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 27, 2012 Share #2 Posted August 27, 2012 A distance fare isn't fair, in my opinion. This isn't New Jersey. This isn't a distance based system, this is a short trip/subway based system. People would say a distance based fare is more unfair than the current flat fare system. I don't see that working out at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4 Via Merrick Rd Posted August 27, 2012 Share #3 Posted August 27, 2012 A distance fare isn't fair, in my opinion. This isn't New Jersey. This isn't a distance based system, this is a short trip/subway based system. People would say a distance based fare is more unfair than the current flat fare system. I don't see that working out at all... Agreed. People would get pissed especially R.R commuters. It's enough that the fares are outrageous on Rail Roads the last thing they need is zone fare system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 27, 2012 Share #4 Posted August 27, 2012 "In fact, the current fare structure discourages such short trips." "It just makes sense that the fare you pay should not be dependent on luck, if the routes happen to serve your needs or not. The fare that you pay should not be a matter of chance but based on a rationale. " "The zone system is the fairest. The further you travel, the more you pay. It works best in areas where there are distinctive zones such as a route passing through distinct cities and towns." Fare structure discourages short trips? Fare dependent on luck? Fairest fare structure is the zone system? smh..... - You mean to tell me more people would make shorter trips if we went to a zone fare system..... I suppose the actual fare itself doesn't matter..... - The luck part makes zero sense to me; What does luck & chance have to do with a base fare... - The zone system is the fairest because of its very definition..... Yeah, You dropped the ball with this part of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgor Posted August 27, 2012 Share #5 Posted August 27, 2012 Firstly I strongly agree that there should be additional free transfers from SBS routes to their local counterparts. Currently if I take the M15 SBS and want to transfer to the local, I just show them the ticket and go on. I've never had a problem yet, but I'm not sure if that's the proper way. However people going from local to SBS cannot do that. A zone fare system would be horrible for New York. What we have now is extremely simple, and every single New Yorker can understand our flat fare system. Also, if there was a train delay or extreme traffic you would be penalizing customers because of circumstances out of their control. I completely understand where you're coming from, and what you said makes perfect sense, but this is New York we're talking about. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted August 27, 2012 Share #6 Posted August 27, 2012 Allow me to chime in. In the majority United States, the concept of a flat fare with a transfer (free or not) is outdated. Likewise, zone base fares are outdated, and even in thier prime were rare. It is hard to give up traditional practices, but it is foolish not to when the benefits outweigh the negatives. My radical fare concepts are below. Base Fare with no transfers (Local, Limited, SBS, & Subway): $1.50-$2.00 Base Fare with no transfers (Express Bus): $3.50-$4.00 Day Pass (Local, Limited, SBS, & Subway): $4.25-$5.25 Day Pass (Local, Limited, SBS, Express, & Subway) $7:50-$8.50 Lower the base fare, but not offer transfers. Keep two trip cost lower than the proposed day pass. Other fare media incuding 7 Days & 31 Days should be consistant with the above pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E train line Posted August 28, 2012 Share #7 Posted August 28, 2012 No it wiil not at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share #8 Posted August 28, 2012 Fare structure discourages short trips? Fare dependent on luck? Fairest fare structure is the zone system? smh..... - You mean to tell me more people would make shorter trips if we went to a zone fare system..... I suppose the actual fare itself doesn't matter..... - The luck part makes zero sense to me; What does luck & chance have to do with a base fare... - The zone system is the fairest because of its very definition..... Yeah, You dropped the ball with this part of the article. Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. I was not advocating a zone system for NYC because it would be horrible for the reason I stated in the article. But a zone system would be the fairest if it could work here which it can't. Yes the fare structure does discourage short trips and the higher the base fare gets, the more people will choose to walk or find some other means to get to their destination or they won't make the trip if they can help it. And the fare is dependent on luck. If you can make your trip with two buses you pay one fare. If it requires three, you pay two fares. It may require three buses because they way the routes have been set up which you have no control over, not because you are making an unusual trip to an isolated location. People would make more shorter trips if there were a zone system if a short trip costed 50 cents instead of $2.25. But as I said it would never work here and it would be extremely difficult to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted August 28, 2012 Firstly I strongly agree that there should be additional free transfers from SBS routes to their local counterparts. Currently if I take the M15 SBS and want to transfer to the local, I just show them the ticket and go on. I've never had a problem yet, but I'm not sure if that's the proper way. However people going from local to SBS cannot do that. A zone fare system would be horrible for New York. What we have now is extremely simple, and every single New Yorker can understand our flat fare system. Also, if there was a train delay or extreme traffic you would be penalizing customers because of circumstances out of their control. I completely understand where you're coming from, and what you said makes perfect sense, but this is New York we're talking about. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The thing is it is broke. Much better than years ago, but people shouldn't be penalized if they need three buses or a bus, train and a bus for a trip. The idea of reducing the transfer period was just to make the economics work so that revenue is not lost by the change. I would prefer the 2 hour limit stay if possible, but most people don't need more than an hour anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 28, 2012 Share #10 Posted August 28, 2012 Perhaps I wasn't making myself clear. I was not advocating a zone system for NYC because it would be horrible for the reason I stated in the article. But a zone system would be the fairest if it could work here which it can't. Yes the fare structure does discourage short trips and the higher the base fare gets, the more people will choose to walk or find some other means to get to their destination or they won't make the trip if they can help it. And the fare is dependent on luck. If you can make your trip with two buses you pay one fare. If it requires three, you pay two fares. It may require three buses because they way the routes have been set up which you have no control over, not because you are making an unusual trip to an isolated location. People would make more shorter trips if there were a zone system if a short trip costed 50 cents instead of $2.25. But as I said it would never work here and it would be extremely difficult to implement. Ok, so you're not advocating for a zone based fare for NYC. Still though: - You raise fares period and that would encourage walking, biking, or whatever other methods people are out here doing, outside of taking mass transit.... People want fare decreases, not increases - Regardless of how the fare is structured.... - Your "luck" argument still isn't making sense.... the amount of buses a rider ends up taking as part of their commute doesn't have anything to do with the fare structure.... You said it yourself, that's due to the way the routes have been set up.... You're taking 2 separate issues & attempting to draw a parallel between them.... Furthermore, you have been harping on 3 bus commutes for quite some time now... Regardless if I think you exaggerate how many people are really doing this, a zone based fare structure by itself isn't gonna decrease the so-called luck factor..... Whatever riders that are out here taking 3 buses (or otherwise paying 2 fares) to get to their destination would still have to take the 3 buses & pay the fare on 3 buses. - Of course people would make more shorter trips if a short trip costed 50 cents, because 50 cents is drastically cheaper than 2.25.... come on now..... That has to do with the fare being cheap(er), not the fare structure being zone based vs flat-fare based..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted August 28, 2012 There is also the situation of those paying two fares by taking a bus to a train to a bus, and those who may avoid it by taking longer slower trips on two buses. Switching to a time based fare over a vehicle based fare would encourage short trips and may allow some reduced bus service saving the MTA money if people switch from bus to subway because of it. Of course everything depends on the amounts charged which I did not want to discuss because that involves a study of MTA finances which I am not equipped to do. Don't even think about a zone system for NY because I can't possible see how it could work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted August 29, 2012 Share #12 Posted August 29, 2012 Allow me to chime in. In the majority United States, the concept of a flat fare with a transfer (free or not) is outdated. Likewise, zone base fares are outdated, and even in thier prime were rare. It is hard to give up traditional practices, but it is foolish not to when the benefits outweigh the negatives. The concept of a flat fare isn't outdated, it's about where it can be applied. You're in Southern CA, so things may work differently where you are, but here in NYC, the fare system may need some tweaking, but a complete overhaul like that is not necessary and more foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted August 29, 2012 Share #13 Posted August 29, 2012 Only thing I can understand is maybe the fare of a local can be $2.00 and maybe LTD can be $2.25 as well as SBS. And the Express bus should be 4.50 like before 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 29, 2012 Share #14 Posted August 29, 2012 Only thing I can understand is maybe the fare of a local can be $2.00 and maybe LTD can be $2.25 as well as SBS. And the Express bus should be 4.50 like before 2010. The express bus was never $4.50. It went from $3 to $4 to $5 to $5.50. (I think they lowered it to $3 when they introduced the MetroCard. I think it was $4 before then) As for the higher limited/SBS fare, I don't really agree. If anything, the limiteds cost less to operate because of the shorter runtime, so there's no reason to charge more for them. (Aside from that, some limiteds have local portions, so you'd have people paying a limited fare when they're not getting faster service) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted August 29, 2012 Share #15 Posted August 29, 2012 But they should pay more for special service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted August 29, 2012 Share #16 Posted August 29, 2012 But they should pay more for special service. I don't consider a limited or SBS as special service. It is just a supplement to a local route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 29, 2012 Share #17 Posted August 29, 2012 I don't consider a limited or SBS as special service. It is just a supplement to a local route. Yup. A glorified LTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted August 29, 2012 Share #18 Posted August 29, 2012 Well they way I see it SBS is useless in my opinion, however I have not been out there to try it out. And if I may add to my above post, the point of a limited or SBS is to take some passengers off of the local. To not keep the fare fare consistant between local/limited service would draw more riders to the local, thus defeating the limiteds purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.